Question: Do you think Bitcoin should be a payment option?

Optimator · Sep 22, 2014

Pirx Danford said:
You might be quite off with this idea. As far as I know MA is cooperating with the authorities when they try to trace funds. So for whomever is stupid enough to use EU for money laundering its a big honeypot.
With Bitcoin that is a different story, yeah its not anonymous per se, but with some effort it can be.

So I fear you'll not see any Bitcoin payment option soon.
Because the danger of being shut down is very real otherwise and for any MMO that is a situation which is difficult at the least if not even impossible to survive.
MA would probably implement it way way way waaaay after nearly every other MMO is offering it.

I don't feel I'm off at all. With all due respect, you might be somewhat misinformed/under-informed however.

For anyone concerned about money laundering and bitcoin, regular fiat currency can just as easily be laundered via depositing it into EU, if not easier. Anyone wishing to launder money via bitcoin would be stupid to do so as every transaction has a unique signature and can be tracked. In general, Bitcoin actually helps law enforcement authorities trace funds and catch the bad guys. That being said, if MA were to use a bitcoin payment processor such as Coinbase or Bitpay, MA wouldn't even be holding any Bitcoin at any point anyway. As long as MA isn't doing anything illegal or knowingly allowing anything illegal to occur without reporting it to the authorities, MA should have nothing to worry about.

I do agree, that we won't be seeing any bitcoin deposit option soon. But not because of the danger of being shut down for having a bitcoin deposit option. But rather, because when it comes to new and innovative technology, there are many who fear what they what they don't understand and therefore reject it. It's happened all through out history.

melander said:
Because the medium of exchange that is bitcoin is at present(in my opinion) not worth the effort and to be honest i doubt it will ever be worth it. It does not take 5 minutes to setup and maintain a new deposit method its not a POCS involving one party.
Then there is of course the fact that its not actually a currency and the legal framework it uses is that of a commodity in most juristictions which again makes the proposition more complicated. And yes there is a very real posibility of being shutdown if assholes decide to use Entropia and a bitcoin option to launder money.

Here are some numbers:

Visa daily transactions amount($): ~16,518,000,000 $
Visa daily transactions: ~212,603,000

Paypal daily transcations amount($): ~397,000,000 $
Paypal daily transactions: ~7,700,000

Bitcoin daily transactions amount($): ~56,000,000 $
Bitcoin daily transactions: ~74,000

*Number of transactions weights heavy when looking at this kind of data.

Considering that all wallet to wallet transactions in bitcoin are counted as a transaction that number is in reality way way lower if we were to only count the "real transactions".

I personally think bitcoin falls short but going beyond my own convictions of bitcoin the system is tiny and used by very few people so why partner with a provider in such a small market when there are far more lucrative systems out there?

Yes, the market cap for Bitcoin is comparatively small (the same can be said for EU, btw), but I disagree that it is hardly worth the effort. I never said it only takes "5 minutes to setup and maintain a new deposit method". But I do stand by my statement that it wouldn't be any more difficult or costly than setting up and maintaining any other deposit method.

And those numbers you threw in are VERY interesting indeed. Consider how many years VISA and Paypal have been in play. I would say that's looking pretty good for Bitcoin, considering over 90% of the world's population hadn't even heard of Bitcoin as of last year, much less understood its utility.

Also, since you're apparently a numbers guy, how about adding the total costs to consumers using VISA and paypal for making all of those daily transactions and compare that to the total costs incurred by those who use Bitcoin even if you increased the number of daily bitcoin transactions to equal the number of visa and payal transactions. And also compare the total cost to the consumers of transacting that $16,000,000,000+ amount with visa and paypal to what it would cost to do that same amount using bitcoin. How you like dem apples?

*Edit: Forgot to add, I'd be interested to see the above numbers you posted comparing Visa and paypal to Bitcoin in 5 and 10 years from now.

RickEngland said:
It doesn't help also that programmers are trying to build software to deal bitcoins on the darknet to fund potential terrorism. I think that will bring this currency a lot problems in the current political landscape.

Rick

Bitcoin and terrorism, along with money laundering, drugs, child porn, contract killings, prostitution, illegal gambling, etc etc etc are just some of many false flags and FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt), that those who have a vested interest in seeing bitcoin fail put out on a regular basis and that people just swallow despite these talking points being debunked many times over.

Bottom line, criminals and terrorists (and law enforcement) know that cold hard fiat cash - namely US dollars - is the way to go if one wanted to fund terrorism or any other kind of illegal activity no matter what the scale. Trillions and trillions of US cash has successfully been used in these endeavors. The fact that bitcoin transactions can be easily traced makes using them for terrorist/criminal activity stoopid on the part of terrorists and criminals and helps law enforcement.

aia said:
Where I've seen it (well indirectly), is that it's been recently used by "ransomware". That is, you get a trojan into your computer, the trojan encrypts all datafiles, and then requires a donation, around 500 USD Worth, in bitcoins that is sent to a certain bitcoin address. It makes it harder to track for the police than a request to pay by credit card.

This isn't a fault of Bitcoin per se. This is a failing on the part of protecting one's computer against such attacks.

*Edit: See bolded above for added edit.

aia · Sep 22, 2014

Optimator said:
This is a failing on the part of protecting one's computer against such attacks

The only way to secure your computer to 100% against such attacks is to put glue in the USB- and network Connections, and to remove all removeable media drives.

One single security hole that isn't patched (either no patch availible, it's not distributed yet, or not installed yet), and one distribution way (like entropedia some year ago) is what's needed. To give an example about unpatched security holes; the reports about backdoors in "routers" such as "Netgear"... A couple of year ago, one way for a trojan to install itself was to ride piggyback on Flash Player installer (it used flash player installer to install itself).

Pirx Danford · Sep 22, 2014

Optimator said:
I don't feel I'm off at all. With all due respect, you might be somewhat misinformed/under-informed however.

For anyone concerned about money laundering and bitcoin, regular fiat currency can just as easily be laundered via depositing it into EU, if not easier. Anyone wishing to launder money via bitcoin would be stupid to do so as every transaction has a unique signature and can be tracked.

While being technically right you are practically wrong.

Yes every transaction is unique, but using a one time wallet and working with a smokescreen like TOR does make it nigh impossible for the authorities to find the real computer behind the transaction - and if that was a hacked machine or one from an internet café then its really difficult.

On the other hand the authorities have way over some centuries experience under their belt, dealing with all the ways fiat is laundered, just look at how they act in regards to new ideas like Bitcoin - to ignore the danger involved in that towards a company like MA is ignorance bordering on negligence.
Now check out the payment options EU provides and you'll see that any option that involves substantial amounts of cash is pretty easily traceable.

Anyhow no matter the technicalities involved, there is no good reason for MA to provide this other than to show rebelliousness against "the man", which is nice for some people but was never a good business strategy.
It would cost time and money to offer this option and the potential gain is minimal versus unpredictable risks.

Optimator · Sep 22, 2014

aia said:
The only way to secure your computer to 100% against such attacks is to put glue in the USB- and network Connections, and to remove all removeable media drives.

One single security hole that isn't patched (either no patch availible, it's not distributed yet, or not installed yet), and one distribution way (like entropedia some year ago) is what's needed. To give an example about unpatched security holes; the reports about backdoors in "routers" such as "Netgear"... A couple of year ago, one way for a trojan to install itself was to ride piggyback on Flash Player installer (it used flash player installer to install itself).

Hmmm... while I am not fully knowledgeable in the techinchal aspects of computer viruses and security, I will assume that what you say is true. Not sure where our point of contention is though, but okay...

Pirx Danford said:
While being technically right you are practically wrong.

Yes every transaction is unique, but using a one time wallet and working with a smokescreen like TOR does make it nigh impossible for the authorities to find the real computer behind the transaction - and if that was a hacked machine or one from an internet café then its really difficult.

On the other hand the authorities have way over some centuries experience under their belt, dealing with all the ways fiat is laundered, just look at how they act in regards to new ideas like Bitcoin - to ignore the danger involved in that towards a company like MA is ignorance bordering on negligence.
Now check out the payment options EU provides and you'll see that any option that involves substantial amounts of cash is pretty easily traceable.

The person behind Silk Road, a TOR website used for buying and selling illegal drugs with bitcoin was caught by the authorities despite him using a VPN and taking other precautions. Despite what people may think, there are smart people investigting for law enforcement.

Even though as you say, "...the authorities have way over some centuries experience under their belt, dealing with all the ways fiat is laundered..." it still happens and still goes undetected in many, if not most cases. Surely you don't believe that every person that has been involved in moneylaundering over the centuries has been caught up to this point, do you? If someone wanted to, they could still launder money in EU using the deposit options currently available.

Anyhow no matter the technicalities involved, there is no good reason for MA to provide this other than to show rebelliousness against "the man", which is nice for some people but was never a good business strategy.
It would cost time and money to offer this option and the potential gain is minimal versus unpredictable risks.

I don't mean or intend any disrespect towards you or anyone else since you are certainly entitled to your opinion just as everyone else is, but this just tells me how uninformed you are about bitcoin. It would cost very little time and very little money to offer this option. Coinbase and Bitpay pretty much do all the work for merchants. And there are many good reasons for MA to offer it other than, as you put it, "...to show rebelliousness against 'the man' " - LOL, Puh-leeease.

Here's a few just off the top of my head:

1. MA wouldn't have to worry about chargebacks. You can't reverse payment with bitcoin like you can with CC and paypal. And therefore there is less fraud for MA to worry about.

2. There would be zero to miniscule processing fee costs to be passed on to the player depositing. A player depositing $1000 US in bitcoin would pretty much get $999 - $1000 worth of PED if MA were to pass the transaction costs to the player as they do now.

3. Publicity. Believe it or not, there are many out there with hundreds and thousands of dollars to burn in the form of bitcoin who would be more than willing to at least check out EU just because it accepted bitcoin (if it did accept bitcoin). Albeit, only a tiny fraction of those might ever stick with the game, but still.

4. Ask the millions people who had everything about their bank account and thier identities stolen when using debit/cc at Target stores if they think having a system of payment where there is no need to expose or give complete access to one's bank account info and identification info to a company that gets hacked - ask them if it might be a good thing.

If you don't think that even one of the above is a good reason, then well... I don't know what else to tell you other than Bitcoin isn't for everyone, I guess. Just like the internet and cell phones aren't for everyone either so no worries.

From looking at the poll it seems as of now only 16 people in the PCF community own bitcoin and the rest don't. *chuckles* Oh well, it is what it is. Maybe things will change in the future...

Anyway, I think I'm done here. Need to get back to playing. Deuces out.

Mikass · Sep 22, 2014

You can also add Dell and Expedia to your list. Alienware is a Dell brand. They are pretty famous brand when it comes to laptops and PC products. The other is a well known travel booking agency. Tiger Direct and Wordpress are also accepting Bitcoin. All these companies actually get USD not Bitcoin. A payment processor takes care of the conversion.

http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/uscorp1/campaigns/bitcoin-marketing

Answer is an obvious YES. I've started this thread a while back on this very same topic. I think accepting Bitcoin could bring both extra revenue and new users on-board.

xXSqUaLLXx · Sep 22, 2014

Optimator said:
Are we having this discussion again?

The question isn't, "Would you personally buy/use/accept Bitcoin?" or "Do you believe in Bitcoin?" or "Do you like or hate Bitcoin?"

The question is, "Do you think Bitcoin should be a payment option?"

Even if you don't believe in Bitcoin. Even if you are scared of it, hate it, think it's nonsense, a scam, a tulip ponzi pyramid mania, passing fad or whatever. Even if you personally would never touch Bitcoin in a million years despite it being the biggest gamechanger since the internet. Even then, why would you NOT want people who do want to put money into the game - a game which depends on people putting money into it - to be able to do so with a bitcoin option? Why?

Seriously, it's easier and cheaper to set up than any other deposit method.

There would be no risk to MA in regard to any price volatility of Bitcoin - ie, when someone deposits $100 US worth of Bitcon, MA recieves $100 US dollars worth of fiat currency from the payment processor, minus the payment processor fees which can range from 0% - 1% depending on what Bitcoin processor and what plan they choose.

As discussed in another thread somewhere, we bitcoin advocates are only asking for an option to deposit funds into the game via bitcoin. No one is trying to convert or force people into using bitcoin or asking MA to take away what deposit options are already in place. People who want to deposit via CC, Paypal or whatever is currently available wouldn't be affected in any way. No one is going to shut down MA/EU because they had an option for depositing via Bitcoin, so don't worry, really it's ok.

Exactly, the question is about if MindArk should accept it.
Not if it's good or bad to buy or sell bitcoins, or if it will be viable in the future.
(one thing is for sure : crypto is here to stay)

The advantage of accepting bitcoin ?

Free exposure (and it will have a nice exposure most likely, so a nice marketing point)
Extra income from people into bitcoin that might see oportunities into EU.
A real cash economy game where you can actually get passive ROI (CLDS etc) accepting bitcoin.
It make the marketing stronger by itself, when linking BTC to EU.

So in the end.. It's only good for the platform wouldn't it be ?

I personnaly say, damn yes.

Pirx Danford · Sep 22, 2014

Optimator said:
And there are many good reasons for MA to offer it other than, as you put it, "...to show rebelliousness against 'the man' " - LOL, Puh-leeease.

Well to count that as pro argument was meant as a joke, while its practically a contra argument.

I see we are living in two different worlds, you live in a world where bitcoin is entirely risk free and I live in a world where bitcoin is feared by many authorities and conservatives and any company that risks entering into bitcoin runs into the danger of getting into severe trouble with authorities.

The people that try to push bitcoin forward are bold forward thinkers... not a page I would write MA on ;-)

Dan59 · Sep 22, 2014

As long MA offer direct bank transfer evrything is fine.

You can have crypto1, crypto2, cryptoxx, human organs, drugs, weapons ect and if you want buy MA peds you change your crypto curency and make direct bank transfer with currencyes wich have backup in national economies like USD or EUR or SEK and buy MA Peds.

Even if MA get approval from authority that they will not have legal, etic or moral issues by addvertising and offering additional payment services is still on MA to decide and not on us.

Optimator · Sep 22, 2014

Pirx Danford said:
Well to count that as pro argument was meant as a joke, while its practically a contra argument.

I see we are living in two different worlds, you live in a world where bitcoin is entirely risk free and I live in a world where bitcoin is feared by many authorities and conservatives and any company that risks entering into bitcoin runs into the danger of getting into severe trouble with authorities.

The people that try to push bitcoin forward are bold forward thinkers... not a page I would write MA on ;-)

I know I said I was done with this thread having said all I thought I could say it it. But after reading this post, I just can't help but say, "Wow." Once again, it shows just how misinformed/under-informed people are about bitcoin. But then again, maybe I'm just assuming, so let me guess, you must live in either Bangladesh, Bolivia, Equador, Iceland - the only four countries in the world where bitcoin is prohibited. Or you live in China, Taiwan, India, Indonesia, Jordan or Lebanon where bitcoin is restricted. If so, sucks for you, I guess.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Bitcoin_by_country

And nowhere did I ever say bitcoin is entirely risk fee. Maybe you inferred that when I said MA would not be at any risk of the price volatility of bitcoin because [if they used a payment processor such as Coinbase or Bitpay or whatever btc processor is available to them] they would at no point be holding Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not entirely risk free. Basically the holder of Bitcoin is solely responsible for taking the measures necessary to protect their holdings. The Bitcoin world is the total opposite of the Nanny State - at least for now. And people who are risk averse to changing value of a currency they hold should probably steer away from bitcoin -again, at least for now. But then again, the same could be said for the US dollar or any other fiat currency. *wink

The people that try to push bitcoin forward are bold forward thinkers... not a page I would write MA on ;-)

Hey, something we both agree on. *smile wink wink

Ok, now I think I'm really done with this thread. Hopefully... maybe... yep. Peace.

EDIT: I see from your avatar info that you hail from Germany, which ironically is one of THE most Bitcoin-friendly countries there are: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/germany-recognized-bitcoin-private-money-over-half-year-ago/ You live in Bitcoin Heaven. lol

mastermesh · Sep 22, 2014

Voted yes... Now, when will Mindark start accepting real world Casino tokens in exchange for peds?

What about Monopoly Board Game money?

Harmony. · Sep 22, 2014

Nope, they should have a year ago when the hype was still there.
Now it doesn't matter.

mobydick · Dec 11, 2014

Yes I do, but more important would be a way to deposit from the Ripple protocol using XRP.

Optimator · Feb 4, 2015

C'mon, MindArk, get with the times already. If not for those who are anti-bitcoin, but do it for those out there who do understand bitcoin and have it to burn.

*note: I have replaced the name of the gaming studio in the following article excerpt with "[Game Studio]" and any references to their games also in brackets. I also removed any links to their site. Adyen is a leading worldwide payments technology company.

Link to the news article as reported in Yahoo Finance:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jagex-unlocks-cryptocurrency-payments-105500467.html

February 3, 2015 5:55 AM
[Game Studio] Unlocks Cryptocurrency Payments
Relationships with BitPay and Adyen to open additional transaction methods for players
Business Wire [Game Studio]


CAMBRIDGE, England--(BUSINESS WIRE)--

[Game Studio] - creators and custodians of the fantasy MMORPG [Game] and upcoming online multiplayer action game, [New Game] – has announced that they will, as of today, be accepting cryptocurrency payments for their games.

As vanguards of new transaction models throughout their time in business, [Game Studio] will now become the first merchant to partner with BitPay and Adyen to accept bitcoins. In doing so, the company will join the growing number of businesses attracted to the benefits of peer-to-peer, borderless and charge free payment methods offered by a cryptocurrency.

[Game Studio's MMORPG game] players are now able to use the protocol to purchase membership and partake in microtransactions, such as the game’s hugely popular bonds system. As a consequence, [Game Studio] intends to give their global audience as wide an opportunity as possible when it comes to cost effective and secure ways of experiencing their games.

“Gamers are smart. We know they get tech, and we know that for them the cryptocurrency protocol is cool and here to stay. By allowing our players to pay however they want, we remove any obstacles between them and having fun,” said David Parrott, payment services director, [Game Studio]. “We’re always examining new and viable ways of widening our payment options, and the excellent services that BitPay and Adyen offer give us the commercial peace of mind to do just that.”

For more information on [Game Studio] titles and their commitment to consumer security, please visit: [Game Studio link (removed)]

- Ends -

About [Game Studio]

Starting in 2001 with their flagship free-to-play adventure game, [MMORPG game], [Game Studio] has created a long-standing reputation for crafting the world’s best online games services. With over 40 titles published to date, [Game Studio] prides itself on developing and publishing hugely popular and accessible games for millions of players globally. For more information please visit [Game Studio link (removed)]

About BitPay

BitPay is the global leader in Bitcoin payment processing with offices throughout North America, Europe, and South America. The company has raised over $32 million from top investors including Index Ventures, Founders Fund, and Sir Richard Branson. For more information please visit www.bitpay.com.

About Adyen

Adyen is a leading payments technology company that provides businesses a single global platform to accept payments anywhere in the world. Driven by a vision to improve customer experience, streamline processes and ultimately increase revenue, Adyen enables businesses to process payments across online, mobile and Point-of-Sale (POS) with over 250 payment methods and 187 transaction currencies. Headquartered in Amsterdam and San Francisco, with offices across North America, South America, Europe and Asia, Adyen serves more than 3,500 businesses and four of the five largest U.S. Internet companies, including well-known brands such as Facebook, Airbnb, Spotify, Groupon, Evernote, Booking.com, Viagogo, Yelp, Vodafone, Mango, O’Neill, SoundCloud, Indiegogo, KLM and JustFab. For more information please visit www.adyen.com (https://www.adyen.com/home/).

Link to article:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jagex-unlocks-cryptocurrency-payments-105500467.html

Arangar · Feb 4, 2015

Voted No, sell the bitcoin for USD or what ever currency is best for you. Then buy peds using the current setup.

whiteknut · Feb 4, 2015

Optimator said:
C'mon, MindArk, get with the times already. If not for those who are anti-bitcoin, but do it for those out there who do understand bitcoin and have it to burn.

Surely you noticed, that neither of these games is RCE.

Jennson · Feb 4, 2015

I voted no, i don'T think Bitcoin is a suitable payment option. As someone already wrote, exchange bitcoin and then you are free to purchase PEDs from it.

Optimator · Feb 4, 2015

Arangar said:
Voted No, sell the bitcoin for USD or what ever currency is best for you. Then buy peds using the current setup.

Thanks for the sage advice.

whiteknut said:
Surely you noticed, that neither of these games is RCE.

Surely you noticed that these games are online games of a company that uses various online payment processors to accept monies from players to play their games.

Jennson said:
I voted no, i don'T think Bitcoin is a suitable payment option. As someone already wrote, exchange bitcoin and then you are free to purchase PEDs from it.

Again, please MA, allow those who have and understand how Bitcoins work the option to deposit and buy stuff from your web store with Bitcoin via a Bitcoin payment processor. Thank You.

MG Mighty · Feb 4, 2015

Optimator said:
buy stuff from your web store with Bitcoin via a Bitcoin payment processor

Besides marketing purposes (which now isn't so hot) what would be the advantage for MA to trust this processors to get them the money ?

Bitcoin is a exchange medium between people who trust the safety of the scheme,
I don't know a good reason which supports it so I don't trust it, ("gold is backed by the greed of rich people who wish to have it and will trade their "surplus cereals" to the miners (and other current onwers) in exchange for it", for a while this was happening in bitcoin but now I'm not so sure how sustainable this is, since besides hype I don't believe that rich people have good reasons to have it, - there are good reasons to have surplus cereals, jewel (status showoff) making materials and fiat currency which allows the payment of taxes and other debts).

mastermesh · Feb 4, 2015

Sure take bit coin so more can deposit, but first get withdrawals to PayPal to be possible since you can deposit that way...

aia · Feb 4, 2015

Optimator said:
Surely you noticed that these games are online games of a company that uses various online payment processors to accept monies from players to play their games.

The difference is that those other companies doesn't have withdrawals, at least not the same way (usign same ingame currency as deposited). For instance, if the ingame currency is "non convertible", the Company can offer the ingame currency in many channels and "swallow" the cost for the transactions needed.

Optimator · Feb 5, 2015

aia said:
The difference is that those other companies doesn't have withdrawals, at least not the same way (usign same ingame currency as deposited). For instance, if the ingame currency is "non convertible", the Company can offer the ingame currency in many channels and "swallow" the cost for the transactions needed.

I understand what you are saying. I know that the other game isn't RCE and the in-game currency is handled differently and that payments are for monthly subsciptions and "bonds" - whatever those are and there are no withdrawals. My point in posting the article is to show that using a bitcoin payment processor to accept payments for playing a mmorpg is doable and is now being done.

Just because EU is RCE, doesn't mean a bitcoin deposit option isn't doable. It costs peanuts to set up and peanuts/free to maintain compared to the other methods currently in place.

As has been said before, if MA were to add a Bitcoin deposit option using a bitcoin processor company like Bitpay, at no time would MA be holding bitcoin - not even for one nanosecond (unless they wanted to, ofc). The bitcoin processor would, at the instant of the transaction, convert the player's bitcoin deposit at the current rate into MA's fiat currency of choice. Then MA would receive it as fiat currency.

And as has also been said multiple times before, adding a bitcoin option would be just that - an added option. No one would be forced to use it. No one would be forced to "convert" to some bitcoin Amway cult or even learn about bitcoin. No other payment options currently available would be affected/removed because of it. And those who wanted to use the current methods would still be happily able to do so.

billairboy · Feb 5, 2015

Optimator said:
As has been said before, if MA were to add a Bitcoin deposit option using a bitcoin processor company like Bitpay, at no time would MA be holding bitcoin - not even for one nanosecond (unless they wanted to, ofc). The bitcoin processor would, at the instant of the transaction, convert the player's bitcoin deposit at the current rate into MA's fiat currency of choice. Then MA would receive it as fiat currency.

But is that really true? I have seen that they often have a limit on how small the payment can be to do a "direct exchange" to for example USD. I think I saw one payment-provider had a minimum of 20USD.

Optimator · Feb 5, 2015

billairboy said:
But is that really true? I have seen that they often have a limit on how small the payment can be to do a "direct exchange" to for example USD. I think I saw one payment-provider had a minimum of 20USD.

Do you remember which bitcoin payment processor(s) you've seen that have a limit/minimum "direct exchange" to a fiat currency? Link?

I didn't see anything pertaining to what you are talking about in BitPay's Merchant Terms of Use:
Link to Bitpay's Merchant Terms of Use: https://bitpay.com/legal#prohibited

From the Fees & Settlement section:

=============

8.3 Methods of Settlement

We will clear the payments over the Bitcoin peer-to- peer payment network and post the balance to your accounting ledger, according to your preference settings. The debits and credits to your accounting ledger are funds temporarily held by BitPay until settlement to your bank account can take place. You can receive a settlement in your local currency, in Bitcoins, or in a mixture of both. You assume volatility risks of the currency in which you choose to be settled. If you choose to keep bitcoins, then you assume the volatility risk of the bitcoin value.

8.4 Settlements in Local Currencies

Direct deposit to a bank account in a local currency is available to merchants located in certain countries. Please refer to Please refer to https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-direct-deposit for a list of those countries. If you wish to receive direct deposit, you must provide us with valid bank account information and keep such information current. We will send a direct deposit to your bank account to clear out your accumulated balance. Minimum settlement amounts apply; please refer to https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-direct-deposit for information related to minimum settlement amounts and deposit frequency.

==============

Nothing about having a limit on how small the payment can be to do a "direct exchange" as you asked. This is for BitPay. I'm not going to look up other Bitcoin processor Merchant Terms of Use.

For MA:

billairboy · Feb 5, 2015

Optimator said:
Do you remember which bitcoin payment processor(s) you've seen that have a limit/minimum "direct exchange" to a fiat currency? Link?

Bitpay.
https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/201890513-Minimum-Settlement-Limits

If I understand it correctly you need to accumulated at least 20USD in bitcoin before you can exchange to usd? But maybe I misunderstand something.

Optimator · Feb 6, 2015

billairboy said:
Bitpay.
https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/201890513-Minimum-Settlement-Limits

If I understand it correctly you need to accumulated at least 20USD in bitcoin before you can exchange to usd? But maybe I misunderstand something.

Yes, but you/the merchant/MA wouldn't be holding that Bitcoin. BitPay holds the Bitcoin and when the ledger says $20 US has been reached, then they transfer the fiat money to the merchant's bank. At no time does the merchant hold Bitcoin (unless they choose the option to do so wholly or partly) and thus are not subject to the second-to-second, minute-to-minute changes in bitcoin price.

BitPay does this most likely because it's more efficient/cost effective to make one transfer from their bank to the merchant's bank of greater than $20 as opposed to multiple separate transfers of say, $5, $2, $10, etc.

From what I understand, Bitpay makes one transfer a day to the merchant's bank. If the merchant has less than $20 on the ledger for that day, then that amount gets added onto the next days amount.

I don't really see it as a problem, unless the merchant desperately needs that $19.99 that day.

*Addendum:

Forgot to add, the bitcoin price is locked-in at the time the consumer/player makes payment. So even if it takes more than a few days to reach the $20 minimum and the price of bitcoin changes, the merchant still gets the fiat amount/value at the time of the consumer/player payment/deposit.

Question: Do you think Bitcoin should be a payment option?

Do you think Bitcoin should be a payment option?

Yes

No

Not sure

Don't care

Alpha

Marauder

Elite

Alpha

Marauder

Prowler

Elite

Stalker

Alpha

Mutated

Stalker

Guardian

Alpha

Alpha

Elite

Elite

Alpha

Stalker

Mutated

Marauder

Alpha

Elite

Alpha

Elite

Alpha