Cld and aud investors - help or hindrance?

Was reading the thread What would you buy if you had 130 CLDs. Noticed some people commenting that CLD holders are passive investors and bad for Entropia Universe. So being curious I would like to discuss about both CLD and AUD investors. Are they a help or a hindrance? What is good/bad about investing in land deeds?

Plus:

1) If noone had bought the deeds, this game wouldn't be here right now. Cld buyers literally saved the game for a few years.

2) PLAYERS bought the deeds. this is good news for Mindark, because players will be players and not all of the income will leave the game.

3) Because of CLDs Items can retain their value, because people who have CLD/AUD can also use it as a means of payment. So people saving up to get some deeds, and then selling the deeds to get that angel set is a good thing for the game and for the value of items.

Min:

1) Deed holders that do not play the game, are bad because.. they do not play the game, although they also count for plus 1)

2) If Deed holders didn't have deeds then they might have deposited more. Mindark needs new players to compensate for players playing with their deed income, to avert a negative spiral.
It almost happened this spring, but hurray! Migration came... it would seem that Mindark is doing a great job, because while kimmi and narfi and the like are all chipping out and leaving, cld income remains steady, so it would seem the new players are depositing players now.

3) The mindset of cld owners changes from player to investor. Why play the game when you can also make money by trading and getting more clds. This is bad for the game.

Yoshii Lem said:

Noticed some people commenting that CLD holders are passive investors and bad for Entropia Universe.

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Those are people that have not yet realised that transferring CLD income from the PED Flow Centre to a PED card is effectively the same as depositing.

As to the available lootpool, i would say not really. CLD are % of money already made by planet partner Calypso. That's the natural scheme of decay auction, etc.
In the other hand, AUD and all revenues for LA owners based on % loot are a % of money yet to be made so rather more destructive.

Yoshii Lem said:

Was reading the thread What would you buy if you had 130 CLDs. Noticed some people commenting that CLD holders are passive investors and bad for Entropia Universe. So being curious I would like to discuss about both CLD and AUD investors. Are they a help or a hindrance? What is good/bad about investing in land deeds?

Click to expand...

I think both exist. Some just sit there to withdraw, others just want their weekly allowance to play with. I prefer the latter, of course, as this money goes back into the economy.

regular player
lets asume he plays for 10 years
10 years * 12 months * 20 USD = 2400 USD deposited (will deposit in the future)

CLD owner with 130 CLD
130 CLD * 130 USD = 16 900 USD deposited (in the past, real money for EU)

If you ask me the CLD owner can play for the next 70 years without depositing and be better depositor than most that call him leacher / bad for the game / or something like that.

If I deposit 16 900 USD to any game I expect lifetime free play at least

Oleg said:

Those are people that have not yet realised that transferring CLD income from the PED Flow Centre to a PED card is effectively the same as depositing.

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Well, the usual argument here is that e.g. you sell your equipment worth 100k ped to buy CLDs and switch from daily grinding to occasional hunt once or twice a week with 5-10 times less turnover and eventually reselling (or at least trying to resell) the deeds for higher, transfering PED from the ped flow center and withdraw it all together.

Spawn said:

Plus:

it would seem that Mindark is doing a great job, because while kimmi and narfi and the like are all chipping out and leaving, cld income remains steady, so it would seem the new players are depositing players now.

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The effect of these 2 selling out would not change CLD at the moment...Kimmi doesn't play much, and 99% of Narfi's activity is on other planets. Furthermore, their selling has barely started yet if you look at everything they have to get rid of, and certainly, their withdrawing hasn't even remotely begun.

You are missing a very important part of the disadvantages of CLD, and to that end, all I will say is this: Since the introduction of CLD, payouts on those deeds have decreased (though they now hold steady), despite record numbers of Caly events. Where did all those players go once they figured out what CLD's were doing to loot??? If all those players were still on Caly, the record number of events that caly has held since the introduction of CLD would for sure have made CLD value go up right? It didn't, and yet we still have same amount of players in game...think about what happened

*sigh*

CLD arent doing anything to loot.

Unfounded (and yes, all theories regarding CLD and loot are unfounded because the folks that make them dont have any actual data. Just a bunch of big words and stupid people that follow them) theories belong in the conspiracy pile.

Magyar_Republic said:

*sigh*

CLD arent doing anything to loot.

Unfounded (and yes, all theories regarding CLD and loot are unfounded because the folks that make them dont have any actual data. Just a bunch of big words and stupid people that follow them) theories belong in the conspiracy pile.

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Long term logs of % return are not needed to prove effect.

MA used 6 million USD primarily for debt service. A massive third mouth was created that needed to be fed. Loot was changed.

There was a definitive moment where recapture from cycling was changed. The days of MA not caring about the random hofs and ath's the system generated are therefore over, the days of letting the system give back what it wanted are over. It worked, then, it doesn't work now. No more 25k hogglo, no more 90k prots, no more 140k towers, no more 150k crafts. Sure lower game looting is as stable as before, but high-end game, the swings are still there, just like before, but this time, there aren't the random huge ones, and much less of the large ones floating around for us to get...and the 70k+ hunting loots are now strictly controlled via shared or event loot.

What it is now is loot guided with robotic precision, with MU taken into account more and more, with profit actually being recaptured from a hunter, miner, or crafters actual tt returns.

The system gave back everything in the past, except for certain things that MA kept...decay, transfer fee's, etc.
And though decay was somewhat taken into account, MA let 100% of ped cycled be transferred to that same tt of loot that remained available to ANY of us if we got lucky.

It doesn't now, it micromanages our specific returns, and it sure as hell doesn't leave 100% of our cycled tt available in the loot pool anymore. And the worst cases, where this is affecting those the most, were the condition crafters and the amped miners. The "whales" that moved probably 50% of the ped cycled daily. They got lost when MA changed loot, and had to start taking from the tt cycled vs. tt returned loot pool.

So MA came out and said "eco is everything" and "there are no personal loot pools" to cover up the fact that they had just made it much harder for a smart player to maintain a break-even spreadsheet...much harder for an individual avatar to reach equilibrium. They tried to make us feel it was random, when it wasn't.

This has nothing to do with the stupid 90% rule people made up.

This has everything to do with a patent change that occurred that insured revenue would stay the same after they gave a big chunk of it away for cash. We now have to fight every moment for MU, because the line keeps getting finer and finer every day, as MA digs deeper and deeper into the loot pool to feed its own mouth.

Eidt: lol...1 hour or so after I made this post, 72k Level 2 amp...lol...I love this game I really do....after all, no one knows shit about it, including me.

Oleg said:

Those are people that have not yet realised that transferring CLD income from the PED Flow Centre to a PED card is effectively the same as depositing.

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what he said

Interesting the notion of deeds being used as cash. It makes me wonder then if land deeds are actually overall increasing economic activity. It can take several days to transfer a large sum of money to MA assuming you have that much cash on hand to deposit. Perhaps land deeds are now the currency to make major purchases for the common player.

crazyqpp said:

what he said

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What he said doesnt add up, because you have to do it just before you withdraw it all, which makes it unequal to depositing. But he does have a point if the one pushing that button, is a player and he doesn't use it withdraw funds.