FYI: Current mining loot pool status - TERRIBLE

trance said:

Hm, so we also should lie when we get bad loot and say in forum how nice it is to lost every run, and how funny the game is that way?

Telling facts is not whining! And i think a forum is here to discuse also bad and the good things.

When i readall the post here, I can see one fact, that it seems crafting is the problem. So why not discuse about such things? I think we all just wish to have more fun and that our poor money last a bit longer.
So we discouse to find ways. also when some ppl think that is whining.

When ppl would be happy, it would have much less such post!

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No but how does whining help making the loot better?
Whining about facts or fiction still remains whining

OP claims current mining loot pool status - TERRIBLE is not telling facts:
Reasons why:
1.Is there confirmed mining loot pool? As far as i know there is only theories about loot pools.
2.Is there any unbiased data given that would support the claims? Right now it is just his words that loot sucks, boohoo and no data at all.

I stand my grounds, this post was just made to whine about current personal situation, no questions asked, no data given, just whining.

If the thread would have been QUESTION: How is your mining loot today? with poll then it would have been regular forum discussion. Right now it is whining. Sure ppl can criticise the game, but if they do , they should have some data to back it up.

Shee said:

Call me stupid then. If one is mining for the sake of hofs/globals she or he is doing something pretty wrong.

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They're only copying the playing style of a lot of hunters.

level 60.9 prospector..#39 ath miner in entropia ..(dropped 3 or 4 places) and Ive given up mining because it sux.
So fedup with the RIP off mining system that I don't even want to skill that last .10% to max the vrx3000
Fed up with the 80ped hofs .what a joke
Mining used to be fun and I could at least mine and have a chance at a decent return.now its just a moneypit
one good run to 10 poor runs don't fill me with the urge to make a deposit.
Greedy Greedy Game aint gona get no $ from me no more.


But I wont sell my skills

whiteknut said:

No but how does whining help making the loot better?
Whining about facts or fiction still remains whining

OP claims current mining loot pool status - TERRIBLE is not telling facts:
Reasons why:
1.Is there confirmed mining loot pool? As far as i know there is only theories about loot pools.
2.Is there any unbiased data given that would support the claims? Right now it is just his words that loot sucks, boohoo and no data at all.
............

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It's a discussion

I pointed out for me at least returns have been low with mining, could be low phase in loot etc and always in past has evened out long term. However returns have discouraged me from mining unless i really need a resource, so turnover lots lower - not a problem just cause and effect and i do other things and dip my toes when needed.

Something has changed with distribution unamped though, mostly IV,V finds for me at least it seems and have read turnover increase to achieve more even results and heard from miners in game same thing.


Again could be just people in low return phase (gotta lose to win), but swings harsher now it seems over lower turnover. Always evened out before so not a panic, just not very inspiring to keep dropping.

One thing that have always amazed me after VU 10 update is how little MA / Caly dev team cares on booth & shops position and ofc Design.

Twin Peaks have always (unoffical) been the trader city. (Look at Ark Quarry) That's good position with booth. And they put it offical into the New comers tutorial.

Now the placement of malls. PA design is sucky and dead, so the mall is just a small piece wrapped inside a mess of a city.

TP Mall seems to be far away from the TP (Shouldn't the mall really be in sight of Twin TP?) Remember Pre VU 10 where it was right outside Argo area. Nice putting the Bank right next to the TP.


MA really shoulda put more effort into shops and booth design & placement (FYI the design is identical to Pre VU 10)

So no wonder crafters struggle to sell when AH is basicly the place where everyone gathers to look for material. (other MMO experience) Yet alot is still placed around Caly unknowing to newcomers.

Offtopic sorry. But that's one issue I c crucial for growth inside this Universe.

It's no wonder Ark is "doing better" when they design it for the players and not quick cash.

R4tt3xx said:

Right now there seems to be no loot in the ground for miners. So what can we extract from this ...

Miners are stupid... If you are mining right now for the sake of hofs / globals you are not going to get any. This game runs off of a real economy, if miners produce more minerals then what is being consumed there are no peds available to cycle back into the ground.

Depositing $$$ will help this in the short term, seeing that there is no personal loot pool this is a problem as everyone has access to the mining areas that you are "seeding" with misses.

I urge caution mining in these tough economic times...

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Please answer my two questions:

1) Do you actually log your mining runs?

2) How much PED have you cycled before reaching your conclusions?



Although Mining and Hunting are different professions, same principles apply and you can't really judge overall return based on small sample. Short-term results might and will oscillate but long-term one will be similar given big enough sample.

I lost ~600 PED last weekend on a ~1200 PED (total cost) hunting run. Terrible for sure.
However I do not start catastrophic thread about Hunting Profession being doomed, because I know that in long-term this is just a hiccup.

Teiwaz Storm said:

Please answer my two questions:

1) Do you actually log your mining runs?

2) How much PED have you cycled before reaching your conclusions?



Although Mining and Hunting are different professions, same principles apply and you can't really judge overall return based on small sample. Short-term results might and will oscillate but long-term one will be similar given big enough sample.

I lost ~600 PED last weekend on a ~1200 PED (total cost) hunting run. Terrible for sure.
However I do not start catastrophic thread about Hunting Profession being doomed, because I know that in long-term this is just a hiccup.

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You can see it on the global tracker !!! Very few hofs / globals from Caly


Sample ..... Im Sorry but you have no clue on what I have found .... Im tired of doubting myself, that is now gone... This thread is here to confirm what I am seeing ingame.

Go onto Caly and see how often you hit..

...

Buying mining skills (Prospecting, miner, treasure etc)

R4tt3xx said:

You can see it on the global tracker !!! Very few hofs / globals from Caly


Sample ..... Im Sorry but you have no clue on what I have found .... Im tired of doubting myself, that is now gone... This thread is here to confirm what I am seeing ingame.

Go onto Caly and see how often you hit..

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Your answer to Teiwaz Storm's question is literally the worst answer to any question that has ever been asked in the history of mankind.

These kinds of threads never get old, do they?

I can't help my self but feel amused whenever someone complains. If mining is so bad, why can't people simply stop? Why are people going back to mining or whatever with teary eyes and then complain again? It sounds like a gambling addiction. Learn to stop sometimes, alright? If you can't play for fun, don't play the game. Simple as that.

Here's my 1.5k PED budget log
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gCXXY4ybHrsur7bRFbn2yKcY7SDZ9ecOyZ2i6vImAbg/edit#gid=0
(stolen spreadhseet format muahahaha)
I even squeezed in some lv13 and terra10 runs. You don't see me complaining. I had fun and don't care about TT losses.

The reason why I linked my log, is simply to show how affordable proper mining can be. 1.5k budget in mining is fairly small and even with it, I managed to play for quite some time.

R4tt3xx said:

Miners are stupid...

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And so are you, don't call your self a miner. Go hunting or dung collecting since mining is not for you.

Satans said:

These kinds of threads never get old, do they?

I can't help my self but feel amused whenever someone complains. If mining is so bad, why can't people simply stop? Why are people going back to mining or whatever with teary eyes and then complain again? It sounds like a gambling addiction. Learn to stop sometimes, alright? If you can't play for fun, don't play the game. Simple as that.

Here's my 1.5k PED budget log
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gCXXY4ybHrsur7bRFbn2yKcY7SDZ9ecOyZ2i6vImAbg/edit#gid=0
(stolen spreadhseet format muahahaha)
I even squeezed in some lv13 and terra10 runs. You don't see me complaining. I had fun and don't care about TT losses.




And so are you, don't call your self a miner. Go hunting or dung collecting since mining is not for you.

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Cheers for your doc's looks more volatile but evens out overall.

just a low phase for people in thread then, no biggy

whiteknut said:

Mindark is reading and thinking: Hmm players cried that they want more stabile tt returns and less big hofs, ok we listened to them, then players started crying they they want more big hofs and less stabile tt returns.

I think it is approtiate to quote Bart Simpson here : "You are damned if you and damned if you don´t"


Stop complaining, tt returns are about 90% and that has has been proved several times, the thing we cant get big hofs as easiliy as in the past, is due to number of players crying on forums in the past... Boohoo i had 60% tt return for three weeks and now week old noob got 95k tower booohooo...
So damn ppl in the past who complained? I agree, but then think you are just like those whining ppl in the past.

Whining can only bring bad things, excessive whining on foorum, will lead to ppl not wanting to deposit, which will lead to bad loot, which will lead to more whining.

So please shut up about the loot and deal with it.

I am not trying to be rude or asshole, i am just tired of ppl complaining. You cant satisfy everyone.

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whiteknut said:

To OP: so mining sucks because noone is buying the ores? Think about the crafters they spend hundreds of thousands to craft lvl 2 amps and tt them the next moment. If you stop mining, then markup of ores will rise and it will lead to someone else mining instead of you.

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I ask u about those poor AMP crafters who can`t sell them... Why should I use AMPS ? To get nothing ? u will be surprise how many played before FOR THE SAKE OF HOFFING, UBERING, ATHing!. ( hoffing now for 100 peds is a joke ) and daily like 5 people can pass 1k+ hof is another joke FOR using AMPSSS!,

Why don`t u go mining with those poor guys crafters AMPS who can`t sell their amps in this awsome 90% return WORLD of what ure saying.

FYI I only complain in the past what I complain now, don`t judge me, I think its STUPID, VERY STUPID, RETARTED for someone to get ATH with 1 PED !!!!!!! while hundreds of people try FOMA/CND how was called in the past and fail in big thousands of PEDS... its like a dedicated hunter u see everyday now hunting big mobs spending and spending.... then booom a guy killing an Argonaut gets 20k to 50k + loot EVERY 3-5 days was very frustating.

whiteknut said:

Whining can only bring bad things, excessive whining on foorum, will lead to ppl not wanting to deposit, which will lead to bad loot, which will lead to more whining.

So please shut up about the loot and deal with it..

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oh yes Im dealing with this and I actually like shut up all this time, this was first post of me whinning about this "Awsome IMP loot System".... not mining and sit on CLDs for 3 years is how I dealed with...

R4tt3xx said:

You can see it on the global tracker !!! Very few hofs / globals from Caly


Sample ..... Im Sorry but you have no clue on what I have found .... Im tired of doubting myself, that is now gone... This thread is here to confirm what I am seeing ingame.

Go onto Caly and see how often you hit..

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You are right - I have no clue what you have found or how big sample of data you have.
That's why I asked you...

Judging by your answer, I take you are one of many trolls that live on this forums.
Or maybe you made this whining thread with hope that MA will send some fat claim your way....

While I don't agree with the statement "there are no ores in the ground", I do agree that globals should be more common. Instead of a global once every 2-5k drops, I think it ought to be more like 2-4 globals every 2k drops. Mining was a lot more fun for me 2-3 years ago when the system was like that. The silver lining to the current mining situation is that resources have a little higher MU because not as many can withstand the boredom.

Neil Stockton said:

While I don't agree with the statement "there are no ores in the ground", I do agree that globals should be more common. Instead of a global once every 2-5k drops, I think it ought to be more like 2-4 globals every 2k drops. Mining was a lot more fun for me 2-3 years ago when the system was like that. The silver lining to the current mining situation is that resources have a little higher MU because not as many can withstand the boredom.

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And i do miss the alien ships with 50 ped bonus global... really bad to remove that!

I just wanted to say, I really don't like the new mining loot distribution as well... All the fun is gone.

I really miss the old system, but adapt or die/quit, right?

-Three

R4tt3xx said:

It was true at the posting of this thread that mining was terrible, now its better, loads more globals ////

See whining / telling the truth works !!!

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Damn, this time I fell for it. First i thought its like one of your funny mining theories but then i thought this time he is really serious about it... Well shouldn`t have answered from the beginning but + rep that you got me

What really is interesting to see is that its the same persons that were moaning that mining got boring because of too stable returns a bit more than a year ago (yes it was boring) that are also moaning now that there are more ups and downs again like it used to be before...

I love when the "90% return" in mentioned, its such a red herring. Sure, its accurate when MU prices are on an upswing. Never, since SGA, have I had 90% returned to me in TT value in the long run. So it all depends on the market. I did a mining run today on Eudoria, using an unamped OF-105, and I hit 1 claim in every 10 bombs, with the average size around 2-2.5 PED. That means every 10 PED spent in bombs (not going to count the low decay for this) had 2.50 PED returned in TT. The market for common ores would have to be just under 400% to see a 90% overall return.

Pre-SGA, or even early Gold (2003-2004), the TT return, on average, was so much higher. Market values of common ores have only fluxuated a little bit over the years, but the TT value on return is much lower.

one last thing before I dont want to post here anymore....so they clearly reduced the big uber thing.... u dont see anymore loots above 10k-20-30k, (well if u do u surely work or paid for it) before there were these things daily or like every 3 days, single or multiple people.... so people back then said it would be so nice to split those big ubers things 10 times or 15 times or whatever... so those 10... 15 or however people be so much happier than just 1 person...so where are all those people in hof board getting the the 1ks for example ? or getting steadly 90%TT returns another example? if that was true this game shoulda have lots and lots more players than 2009-2011 or at least more happy ones...

saying the same for hunting what I said above, where are all the happy people gettinng 90% TT ? or why this game has no more people than before ?

LUCmarius1 said:

one last thing before I dont want to post here anymore....so they clearly reduced the big uber thing.... u dont see anymore loots above 10k-20-30k, (well if u do u surely work or paid for it) before there were these things daily or like every 3 days, single or multiple people.... so people back then said it would be so nice to split those big ubers things 10 times or 15 times or whatever... so those 10... 15 or however people be so much happier than just 1 person...so where are all those people in hof board getting the the 1ks for example ? or getting steadly 90%TT returns another example? if that was true this game shoulda have lots and lots more players than 2009-2011 or at least more happy ones...

saying the same for hunting what I said above, where are all the happy people gettinng 90% TT ? or why this game has no more people than before ?

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Hmmm, if you look on hofboard you can see those hofs above 1k right now. And also big ATHs or hofs above 20 or 30k still happening. Furthermore there are 2 well known Entropians living in the house I`m living at atm that log there returns since years and in the long run their returns are around the magical 90% number. I don`t log my returns so can`t talk about myself. And I`m pretty sure that there are more ppl playing than before. (I started playing beginning of 2005) They are just spread out across the planets.

LUCmarius1 said:

one last thing before I dont want to post here anymore....so they clearly reduced the big uber thing.... u dont see anymore loots above 10k-20-30k, (well if u do u surely work or paid for it) before there were these things daily or like every 3 days, single or multiple people.... so people back then said it would be so nice to split those big ubers things 10 times or 15 times or whatever... so those 10... 15 or however people be so much happier than just 1 person...so where are all those people in hof board getting the the 1ks for example ? or getting steadly 90%TT returns another example? if that was true this game shoulda have lots and lots more players than 2009-2011 or at least more happy ones...

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You can get a good idea of the number of globals by looking at the HOF threshold. It's now normally around 110 ped, globals are often HOFs. 2-3 years ago the cutoff was consistently around 300. Part of the reason for this may be that due to the low frequency of multipliers, not many people use amps compared to back then.

BTW we still get about 95% returns after decay, so the overall return is roughly the same as it was back then.

Neil Stockton said:

You can get a good idea of the number of globals by looking at the HOF threshold. It's now normally around 110 ped, globals are often HOFs. 2-3 years ago the cutoff was consistently around 300. Part of the reason for this may be that due to the low frequency of multipliers, not many people use amps compared to back then.

BTW we still get about 95% returns after decay, so the overall return is roughly the same as it was back then.

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so they can remove those amps from the game.. so I can get 95%... crafting will be so much "fun"....F-106 here I come! oh wait no need that much depth... F-105 then!

okey lets say ure right about that 95% prolly u said it without mu but I doubt if I will begin to ask some people how they are doing in mining, not throwing on big amps or they do mostly unamped are sitting around 80% these days and another thing that "those" people u mention, when I mined before I always happen to meet someone on the field, I was only mining Amethera, now I can mine full week not to meet "THOSE MANY" miners UNAMPED now if u know what I mean. I think what u just said its BS.


but I put another question, what about HUNTING? they can say that too ? they remove the big ubers hofs are they getting 90% return? or more steadly returns how are they called this days, cause now I`m a fapper and from curiosity I ask or just tell me how they did, and find out how they did at the end of a run(s) makes me just don`t want to ask any peds for my service and logout....

Shee said:

Hmmm, if you look on hofboard you can see those hofs above 1k right now. And also big ATHs or hofs above 20 or 30k still happening. Furthermore there are 2 well known Entropians living in the house I`m living at atm that log there returns since years and in the long run their returns are around the magical 90% number. I don`t log my returns so can`t talk about myself. And I`m pretty sure that there are more ppl playing than before. (I started playing beginning of 2005) They are just spread out across the planets.

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Can I come and live in your gaming house?

Satans said:

Can I come and live in your gaming house?

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Send me a pm in game and we will have a talk about it so maybe you can be our guest one day

Edit: Shall i upload a vid so you`ll know what will await you?

Shee said:

Hmmm, if you look on hofboard you can see those hofs above 1k right now. And also big ATHs or hofs above 20 or 30k still happening. Furthermore there are 2 well known Entropians living in the house I`m living at atm that log there returns since years and in the long run their returns are around the magical 90% number. I don`t log my returns so can`t talk about myself. And I`m pretty sure that there are more ppl playing than before. (I started playing beginning of 2005) They are just spread out across the planets.

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Yeah I can see happening those ATHs... once at every 6 months this is a joke compared to before 1 ath / month or 2.... and those 20k+....pffff... once a month or twice now ? should I remind how often was before ?hhahaha good one, like a friend of mine spend for his 26k tower on FOMA "only" 50k ped but yeah we still see them, god knows how many are like my friend and not getting more than 10k! or 1k....

Yeah people are so spread and more people are around THAN BEFORE that some other PLANETS ARE DEAD! damn this logic.

Shee said:

Send me a pm in game and we will have a talk about it so maybe you can be our guest one day

Edit: Shall i upload a vid so you`ll know what will await you?

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send me the vid via PM I'm ready, my body is ready

Satans said:

send me the vid via PM I'm ready, my body is ready

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lol will upload one the next days

there is no doubt that you get 90% return back to you in mining but it does not happen in 1 run or 10. you will need not days or weeks but months to see that point.

i did mining for ~3 years and when i started i was told by my mentor to keep track of returns. I have enjoyed many days for over 100% tt returns and cried through months of 60% returns. The point is that it will take only 1 good hof to balance out your many days loss and it always comes if you have enough peds on card to get it. Most ppl start with low budget and jump right to big amps and then cry about loot.

P.s :- More mining and less whinning will generate better results

crazyqpp said:

Most ppl start with low budget and jump right to big amps and then cry about loot.

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Probably the smartest sentence in this whole thread

This is for planetside...

For me the problem is... In the old days you had high and low swings on a weekly basis... Get a hof a couple days in a row and then have 3 days of horrible loot around 50%... And then there was always a chance you could get really lucky and hit a big one, even unamped. In the long run it totaled out to be around 90% return tt....

Now with the new mining loot distribution system the swings seem to be monthly... 2-3 months of bad loot around 70% and then 2 weeks to a month of really good loot balancing it back out to 90% Also, there is almost no chance of hitting a 5 digit unamped anymore planetside, maybe even on Foma as well.

The new system might be better for some... but for me it is a lot more boring... There is no excitement and hope of hitting a big one unamped or getting frequent hofs, and after the 2 weeks of the good "fun" period you know a few horrible boring months of grinding are heading your way. It makes it difficult to play consistently.

Old system 1 out of every 5 runs I could hit a 400+ pedder with a103 amp with really low swings on a couple of those runs. <--- Fun for me!

New system the 400+ pedder happens 1 out 20 runs, but it is more balanced with fewer really low swings. <--- Boring for me!

Just how I see it though.

-Three

I would also like to add, because of the new mining loot distribution system with far more spread out multipliers, it is really frustrating using mid-level and up amps because you lose huge amounts of ped in the months of down periods, which of course makes you not want to use amps anymore...

Most ppl don't have the peds to sustain level 5 amps for two months until they finally hit a multiplier that balances them back out to 90%, and waiting that long is difficult. That is the reason people aren't using them as much anymore, which is the reason the mu on them has gone down, which I am sure is one of the reasons many people aren't crafting as much.