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FYI: Current mining loot pool status - TERRIBLE

Norbert said:
Cheers for your doc's looks more volatile but evens out overall.

just a low phase for people in thread then, no biggy :)
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"no biggy" when this low phase ate 50k ped in matter of few months.. should i have pumped another 50k to see if there would be a payback coming.. if not then another 50k and another and another
 
Of course an unamped mining on a low phase a month or 2 months can be fixed with a good hof, but ur ped card goes -20k in 2 months, that pretty be a god damn good hof to fix that which those don`t come anymore, as I said just like my friend 26k tower and spent 50k for it, what if he didn`t was so lucky ?
 
LUCmarius1 said:
Of course an unamped mining on a low phase a month or 2 months can be fixed with a good hof, but ur ped card goes -20k in 2 months, that pretty be a god damn good hof to fix that which those don`t come anymore, as I said just like my friend 26k tower and spent 50k for it, what if he didn`t was so lucky ?
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join WSS, get Insider info´s, go mining for a few amps a year, hit 1 Kped redu hofs :)... thats how EU works. :mad::mad::mad:

grinding doesnt help anymore...
 
Jeanni said:
join WSS, get Insider info´s, go mining for a few amps a year, hit 1 Kped redu hofs :)... thats how EU works. :mad::mad::mad:

grinding doesnt help anymore...
Click to expand...

Looks like the magick is here from 6 or atleast for them ... few medium/hardcore hunters even stop hunt and only mining from 6th :laugh::laugh: Good to be WSS
 
Strash said:
Can this Thread be Closed please?


It really has no Use and honestly is pretty stupid...
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Well it has turned stupid, but the idea behind is that the current mining (or even looting in general) system is less then optimal.

You can have way too many bad loot runs in a row, this will turn people away from mining, and away from the game. So MA should really rethink their looting algorithm, and i believe this is what this thread is about, alerting MA once again that change is needed.

I have a theory about loot. Ofc like most theories it's probably bogus but i think:

With the current system it is easy too see when you are in a good loot phase, if you switch to huge amps during that phase you make a killing. If enough people just play during the good loot phases, everybody else gets fewer peds and get depressed.
It's not like this hasn't happened before in the past....
 
Harmony. said:
You can have way too many bad loot runs in a row, this will turn people away from mining, and away from the game. So MA should really rethink their looting algorithm, and i believe this is what this thread is about, alerting MA once again that change is needed.

With the current system it is easy too see when you are in a good loot phase, if you switch to huge amps during that phase you make a killing. If enough people just play during the good loot phases, everybody else gets fewer peds and get depressed.
It's not like this hasn't happened before in the past....
Click to expand...

K First of all this first part about too many bad loot runs in a row is false, loot these days is times and times more stabile (around 90%) then ever in the past. Most ppl here whine about why no more big ass HOFs (which is just what it was like in the past).

The second part is also false, if it were so easy why are´nt ppl making huge profits? Surely there are some ups and downs in the loot but they are not easy to spot and to profit from it. Believe me if it was that easy i would have given up trading long time ago and become millionaire already.

Yeah the system can be improved, but this thread wasnt created to make system better, it was to whine about how good it was before MA changed it (because ppl whined).


I am not saying the current system is the best, but it is quite stabile and everyone has fair chance. "good loot phases" you are mentioning have been in this game for years and they can be for specific player, area or time. It is not easy to spot them. I on 2007 when mining and looking at global chat it was quite easy to get global yourself, but now it has gotten much more complicated, you have to be using the right amp, right location, right time to get part of these "good loot phases"

I agree with Strash who is probably more experienced miner than most of us, this thread is stupid.
 
whiteknut said:
K First of all this first part about too many bad loot runs in a row is false, loot these days is times and times more stabile (around 90%) then ever in the past.
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Really and you know this by standing in twin peaks all day long? Please go out and do 500 drops and show me the 90% return.....
 
Harmony. said:
Really and you know this by standing in twin peaks all day long? Please go out and do 500 drops and show me the 90% return.....
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The 90% are ment for the long run, not for the supershort run...

And to end this from my side... Some of you are really funny. Its like: "I can`t adapt to the system, so the system has to adapt to me."
If loot-swings are too high with amped mining simply do it unamped. And if unamped mining swings are still too high for you then go with rookie gear and work your way up. The same goes for hunting btw and probably for crafting. Its all there and it is possible to break even or profit at least in hunting and mining from the beginning and maybe also in crafting (I`m lacking in knowledge for crafting).
The game is as challenging to you as you want it to be. If loot-swings are too high simply play on a smaller scale and step back to smaller mobs, rookie gear etc and work your way up again.

GL everyone!
 
Harmony. said:
Really and you know this by standing in twin peaks all day long? Please go out and do 500 drops and show me the 90% return.....
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Lets make it 10 000 drops and put bet of 5k peds on it, if i am closer to 90% than lets say 60% then you owe me 5k, if not i pay you 5k.

My time is worth something so i wont be wasting it for free. 500 drops is like crafting 500clicks of jester d1 on condtion, sometimes you get 2% success rate and next run 11%, it is too short run.


And about me standing all day in twin peaks, we are about same activity crafters and neither of us is in top 100 crafter or hunter list. I can do as much in Twin Peaks as you can do all around entire Entropia Universe. I know much about mining and crafting because, if you dont know what feeds the economy you cant be a successful trader.

LOL just read Shee reply to you, yeah rookie gear might help you get 90% average tt return.
 
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Teiwaz Storm said:
Please answer my two questions:

1) Do you actually log your mining runs?

2) How much PED have you cycled before reaching your conclusions?



Although Mining and Hunting are different professions, same principles apply and you can't really judge overall return based on small sample. Short-term results might and will oscillate but long-term one will be similar given big enough sample.

I lost ~600 PED last weekend on a ~1200 PED (total cost) hunting run. Terrible for sure.
However I do not start catastrophic thread about Hunting Profession being doomed, because I know that in long-term this is just a hiccup.
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define long-term
 
tyk said:
"no biggy" when this low phase ate 50k ped in matter of few months.. should i have pumped another 50k to see if there would be a payback coming.. if not then another 50k and another and another
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exactly.....
 
whiteknut said:
Lets make it 10 000 drops and put bet of 5k peds on it, if i am closer to 90% than lets say 60% then you owe me 5k, if not i pay you 5k.

My time is worth something so i wont be wasting it for free. 500 drops is like crafting 500clicks of jester d1 on condtion, sometimes you get 2% success rate and next run 11%, it is too short run.


And about me standing all day in twin peaks, we are about same activity crafters and neither of us is in top 100 crafter or hunter list. I can do as much in Twin Peaks as you can do all around entire Entropia Universe. I know much about mining and crafting because, if you dont know what feeds the economy you cant be a successful trader.

LOL just read Shee reply to you, yeah rookie gear might help you get 90% average tt return.
Click to expand...

lets see you make a deposit and have a bad run... then let us know how you feel
 
whiteknut said:
Lets make it 10 000 drops and put bet of 5k peds on it, if i am closer to 90% than lets say 60% then you owe me 5k, if not i pay you 5k.
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I never said 60%... Seems you are not to sure about your own theory....

But from where i am standing you are saying it is fine that a new player has to drop 10k bombs to reach 90%, and you don't see a problem with that? I am a long term player and have no problems breaking even of profiting in the long run. New players that don't mine for markup that have a lot of low return runs in a row will leave this place.
 
Harmony. said:
I never said 60%... Seems you are not to sure about your own theory....

But from where i am standing you are saying it is fine that a new player has to drop 10k bombs to reach 90%, and you don't see a problem with that? I am a long term player and have no problems breaking even of profiting in the long run. New players that don't mine for markup that have a lot of low return runs in a row will leave this place.
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So what % you are saying?

I am not saying players has to drop 10k to reach 90% it can happen in 5 bombs also, just i wanted to make sure the data is statistically significant before offering you a fair bet. (read it is possible to get 11% success rate on cond clicking d1s). Hell yeah noob can drop 100 bombs and get back 190ped tt, but the average still stands at 90%

If every run would be 90% after every single bomb then there would be NO hofs nor globals possible (unless over 56ped tt drop)

You said 90% is not true, then tell what is true? ATM you are claiming things like Mining returns are very often 0% tt return :( (But forget to mention they are one bomb drop mining runs)

Anyways my bet stands valid. I hope we can come to an agreement and i can walk away with 5k extra peds (probably will lose 1k on 10k peds spent for run - but hey if good markup i might break even)
 
Arch said:
lets see you make a deposit and have a bad run... then let us know how you feel
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You really think i havent lost money ingame :D? you think i am getting globals and hofs via cheating the system? Everyone has bad runs, but in long terms you are losing only 10% of the tt value spent.

You can do forum search for me whining about bad loot, you wont find any, yeah i believed my avatar is cursed, but thats it i dont complain about something that is same for everyone, and quite fair imho, i play the game and enjoy it.
 
tyk said:
"no biggy" when this low phase ate 50k ped in matter of few months.. should i have pumped another 50k to see if there would be a payback coming.. if not then another 50k and another and another
Click to expand...

I did say "no biggy", what i didn't say in thread is i'll just stop mining ;).

Drop now n then if i feel lucky while hunting.
 
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I have been looking at various static methods to figure out mining, you can't do it.

Once I realized that, it became soo much easier..

1) I am not going out to find my globals, they will come and find me.
2) Max 4 1.5ped probes per 1km^2

Reason for 2 is straightforward, I am seeing that 1km "cell" as a button for cheese, 1st time you press the button, hey look cheese, press the button again, you get less cheese... Long story short, press the button till you run out of cheese, then go somewhere else or wait.... SIMPLE !!!

Thats how u beat mining, don't get addicted to it...
 
Is this column really worth having, we all know that the game has become more expensive ... Why, here's a point.

You can still get back 90% but your expenses to get these 90% have increased dramatically and all that you're willing to sell later on as skills, gear,propertys and your loot has got down in value.

That says it all.:yup::yup::yup:
 
whiteknut said:
So what % you are saying?
You said 90% is not true, then tell what is true? ATM you are claiming things like Mining returns are very often 0% tt return :( (But forget to mention they are one bomb drop mining runs)
Click to expand...

I never mentioned a % and i never mentioned that 90% isn't true, in fact i believe 90% is too low long term, but i don't want to get involved in a percentage argument because that makes no sense.

I am saying that if a new person does 20 runs of 100 peds in a row where he gets varius returns from 70-90% it is not motivating people to continue moning. Sure the 21st run might be a huge hof, but how many new people will continue playing that long?

In the past the loot distribution was better, since after a few bad runs you would always hit a global.
 
Shee said:
The 90% are ment for the long run, not for the supershort run...

And to end this from my side... Some of you are really funny. Its like: "I can`t adapt to the system, so the system has to adapt to me."
If loot-swings are too high with amped mining simply do it unamped. And if unamped mining swings are still too high for you then go with rookie gear and work your way up. The same goes for hunting btw and probably for crafting. Its all there and it is possible to break even or profit at least in hunting and mining from the beginning and maybe also in crafting (I`m lacking in knowledge for crafting).
The game is as challenging to you as you want it to be. If loot-swings are too high simply play on a smaller scale and step back to smaller mobs, rookie gear etc and work your way up again.

GL everyone!
Click to expand...

I was waiting for someone to say something like this...

The problem is fun... mining unamped and mining with rookie gear is not fun for someone who has mined with amps for years, so downgrading makes it feel like you are working not playing and enjoying a game, which of course makes you not want to play at all.

I don't play entropia to make money... I play for fun... and in the old system I could mine 100 $ a month using level 5's and it was no problem... I had highs and lows, and a lot of fun... This new system If I am in a down period I could lose 500$ + in a month... I have a lot of small highs and lows, and not very much fun...

So I adjust by lowering to unamped to compensate the price.... well... that is way more boring... because before I enjoyed mid level hofs and higher globals, now I get little globals and very rare hofs. Which makes me not want to play or deposit at all.

The fun to cost ratio has raised a lot... I used to deposit monthly and play a lot... now I don't deposit and play far less... It isn't worth it anymore.

Well then I should quit, right?

Well, I don't want to quit, this is my favorite game and I want it to be as awesome as it can be. I have good friends here and I adore the concept.

I think there are a lot of good and bad aspects to both loot distribution systems, but for me the new version has taken a lot of fun out of entropia, and I have a feeling for a lot of other depositors as well, which might be why MA looks to selling asteroids and deeds to acquire money, instead of depending on a paying player base, which is dwindling at the lack of fun... though the money searching player base might be growing.

And though, I have nothing against people who play this game to make money from it, I do fear what will happen to the game when MA completely sacrifices "fun" for them. At least what is fun for me, and what I believe is fun for most game playing depositors...

I don't mean to cause waves or to be rude to anyone, hopefully I can share my opinion on entropia here in peace. I think discussing these issues can be quite helpful, and should be discussed.

Thanks,
Three :cool:
 
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5 people getting 90% return unamped while amps guys don`t want to continue to tell same story... when I attach that amp is like Im in another world.

Snable I would so much to take ur chalenge but with at least lvl5 amps on Caly... doing like at least 5 amps of lvl5... 10x of lvl7s or 10x lvl8s-dclass.... but I tried those and failed miserable for 3 months putting in the ground 10k ped I think I had my share and don`t want it again ! my usual runs were always 390 drops+ cause this what I had time for in the game. so Please can someone show me for next 3 months an amped Caly like I just said ? and post the results ?

CAUSE U GUYS ARE SO SURE FOR THAT 90%, U CAN`T LOSE, IS JUST WHAT U WERE KEEP SAYING. AND U GUYS CAN STOP DEPOSITING FOR EVER... EVERY HUNTER- CRAFTER JUST GO MINING AND PROFIT! EASY!
 
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Sigh, it's funny I hit more with a set of ROOKIE finders than my 105 ...
 
LUCmarius1 said:
so Please can someone show me for next 3 months an amped Caly like I just said ? and post the results ?

CAUSE U GUYS ARE SO SURE FOR THAT 90%, U CAN`T LOSE, IS JUST WHAT U WERE KEEP SAYING. AND U GUYS CAN STOP DEPOSITING FOR EVER... EVERY HUNTER- CRAFTER JUST GO MINING AND PROFIT! EASY!
Click to expand...


why wuld anyone do that ? :scratch2:
do 3 months of hardcore mining, risk their money and then give you results to what end ? so that you can use CAPS AGAIN AND CALL THEM "LIAR" ?
 
Three said:
I was waiting for someone to say something like this...

The problem is fun... mining unamped and mining with rookie gear is not fun for someone who has mined with amps for years, so downgrading makes it feel like you are working not playing and enjoying a game, which of course makes you not want to play at all.

I don't play entropia to make money... I play for fun... and in the old system I could mine 100 $ a month using level 5's and it was no problem... I had highs and lows, and a lot of fun... This new system If I am in a down period I could lose 500$ + in a month... I have a lot of small highs and lows, and not very much fun...

So I adjust by lowering to unamped to compensate the price.... well... that is way more boring... because before I enjoyed mid level hofs and higher globals, now I get little globals and very rare hofs. Which makes me not want to play or deposit at all.

The fun to cost ratio has raised a lot... I used to deposit monthly and play a lot... now I don't deposit and play far less... It isn't worth it anymore.

Well then I should quit, right?

Well, I don't want to quit, this is my favorite game and I want it to be as awesome as it can be. I have good friends here and I adore the concept.

I think there are a lot of good and bad aspects to both loot distribution systems, but for me the new version has taken a lot of fun out of entropia, and I have a feeling for a lot of other depositors as well, which might be why MA looks to selling asteroids and deeds to acquire money, instead of depending on a paying player base, which is dwindling at the lack of fun... though the money searching player base might be growing.

And though, I have nothing against people who play this game to make money from it, I do fear what will happen to the game when MA completely sacrifices "fun" for them. At least what is fun for me, and what I believe is fun for most game playing depositors...

I don't mean to cause waves or to be rude to anyone, hopefully I can share my opinion on entropia here in peace. I think discussing these issues can be quite helpful, and should be discussed.

Thanks,
Three :cool:
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you are not being rude at all. you are right its very easy to go down 5k peds with level 5 amps in 1 month and that is if you keep yourself away from foma/hell which is really hard :laugh:
But can still enjoy alot of global unamped on foma with the same amount :) or try to mine for Rares only and in that case the 5k is still good enough even with Level 8 amps but that would mean you will have to adapt to new ways and let go the way you use to mine which is heart breaking i know that feeling almost quit when Rock closed 2 servers but then like you said almost nobody here wants to leave and i tried new ways/things and found my way back. One door closes another opens you just need to be "stubborn" enough to find it ;)

good luck m8
 
crazyqpp said:
why wuld anyone do that ? :scratch2:
do 3 months of hardcore mining, risk their money and then give you results to what end ? so that you can use CAPS AGAIN AND CALL THEM "LIAR" ?
Click to expand...

so now its a risk even for u a defender of 90% return ? but u said it urself the 90% return is like always was before, I really don`t understand this anymore. If u are so sure on 90% in the end go on the field, don`t be scared.

crazyqpp said:
there is no doubt that you get 90% return back to you in mining but it does not happen in 1 run or 10. you will need not days or weeks but months to see that point.

i did mining for ~3 years and when i started i was told by my mentor to keep track of returns. I have enjoyed many days for over 100% tt returns and cried through months of 60% returns. The point is that it will take only 1 good hof to balance out your many days loss and it always comes if you have enough peds on card to get it. Most ppl start with low budget and jump right to big amps and then cry about loot.

P.s :- More mining and less whinning will generate better results :wise:
Click to expand...
 
LUCmarius1 said:
so now its a risk even for u a defender of 90% return ? but u said it urself the 90% return is like always was before, I really don`t understand this anymore. If u are so sure on 90% in the end go on the field, don`t be scared.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I'll need to see your long term return results, as well as some representative LBML maps showing how you drop before I can take your analysis seriously.
 
LUCmarius1 said:
so now its a risk even for u a defender of 90% return ? but u said it urself the 90% return is like always was before, I really don`t understand this anymore. If u are so sure on 90% in the end go on the field, don`t be scared.
Click to expand...

Instead of quoting my comment if you read it with open mind and more importantly "EYES" you will see that i have mentioned i had months of 60% return period. Thats the risk. If i have to stop for some reason i may not get my peds back becoz i have not designed the loot system and i can never be 100% sure about it so yes i am also scared as its the "REAL" money we are talking about. So if i do mining without knowing if i have enough time and peds to get through the down cycle its a "RISK" i choose to take my time sort out the things i am currently working on and take a break from it instead of gambling with couple of big amp runs.

anything else ?
 
90% is kind of low for a long term average unamped. 90% is OK for medium amps, unamped should be more like 95% or higher. Of course, if you waste probes mining you can can get much lower. Since August my miners have 96% overall return, which actually is lower than I like it to be. That's about 1000 runs.
 
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Neil Stockton said:
90% is kind of low for a long term average unamped. 90% is OK for medium amps, unamped should be more like 95% or higher. Of course, if you waste probes mining you can can get much lower. Since August my miners have 96% overall return, which actually is lower than I like it to be. That's about 1000 runs.
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unamped was awesome and yes culd generate 95% but i moved up to amps really quick and started taxed areas even though i dont believe the less return was coz of amps as they only help you cycle more peds in less time but the 5% tax i was paying hence 88-91 was my avg long term results.
People are having hard time believing 90% is possible and you are saying its low :eyecrazy::eyecrazy::laugh:
 
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