Menu
What's New
By:
Filters

Developer Notes #9 - Version Update 15.0 Preview

thoreau said:
I'm no accountant but is this the jest of what you're saying?

Before change:

Player makes deposit worth 1000 PED. They hunt and get a 90% return in ammo. MA has a contingent liability of 900 PED.

After change:

Player makes deposit worth 1000 PED. They hunt and get a 90% return in shrapnel. They convert the shrapnel to universal ammo. MA has a contingent liability of 0 PED.
Click to expand...

Pretty much.

Player depos 1000 ped - MA gets 1000 ped of sales and a contigent liability of 1000 PED

Player goes hunting, gets loot worth 900 PED - MA has contigent liabilities of 900 PED

Some percentage of that loot is sharpnell. Lets say 50% as he was hunting a crap mob.

Now there are two options :

  1. player converts sharpnell into universal ammo : he now has 1.01 x 0.5 x 900 = 454.5 ped of universal ammo and 450 ped of other loot. MA has contigent liability of 450 ped.
  2. player TTs the sharpnell, and now has 450 PED, 450 PED worth of loot, and MA contigent liability is 900 ped

As long as option A is much more common, it works as a drain on contigent liability, regardless of where the mu peds to make up for the tt losses come from. It should allow MA to both increase the return % on hunting and cycle peds faster from the incoming queue to the outgoing queue for withdrawals, as quite a lot of depo peds will be becoming and staying as universal ammo. This also solves a problem with universal ammo bought from the web shop, a lot of which presently gets converted back to regular peds, instead of staying as universal ammo.

It will be interesting to see what the sharpnell percentage will be, if and how much it will vary between mobs and how many mobs that are sensible to hunt there will be per planet. 50% sharpnell is I hope very high estimate, but it will ccertainly be above 10-15% we presently get in various types of ammo.
 
remontoire said:
Pretty much.

Player depos 1000 ped - MA gets 1000 ped of sales and a contigent liability of 1000 PED

Player goes hunting, gets loot worth 900 PED - MA has contigent liabilities of 900 PED

Some percentage of that loot is sharpnell. Lets say 50% as he was hunting a crap mob.

Now there are two options :

  1. player converts sharpnell into universal ammo : he now has 1.01 x 0.5 x 900 = 454.5 ped of universal ammo and 450 ped of other loot. MA has contigent liability of 450 ped.
  2. player TTs the sharpnell, and now has 450 PED, 450 PED worth of loot, and MA contigent liability is 900 ped

As long as option A is much more common, it works as a drain on contigent liability, regardless of where the mu peds to make up for the tt losses come from. It should allow MA to both increase the return % on hunting and cycle peds faster from the incoming queue to the outgoing queue for withdrawals, as quite a lot of depo peds will be becoming and staying as universal ammo. This also solves a problem with universal ammo bought from the web shop, a lot of which presently gets converted back to regular peds, instead of staying as universal ammo.

It will be interesting to see what the sharpnell percentage will be, if and how much it will vary between mobs and how many mobs that are sensible to hunt there will be per planet. 50% sharpnell is I hope very high estimate, but it will ccertainly be above 10-15% we presently get in various types of ammo.
Click to expand...

Without doing further research myself, based on your posts, I wouldn't be surprised if we start to get HOFs full of sharpnels. The more PED they get tied up in it, the better, right?
 
I dont think that Brain Oil or Heart oil drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that ESI drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Robot Contraction Unit drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Output Amplifier Component drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Ara hide drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Chomper hide drop from all EU creatures.
And so on...
All above and many other drop from wery specific group of mobs.
Each mob had established specific loot in range of its own loot table of items / resources.
Why mess with all that now?
 
Dan59 said:
I dont think that Brain Oil or Heart oil drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that ESI drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Robot Contraction Unit drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Output Amplifier Component drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Ara hide drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Chomper hide drop from all EU creatures.
And so on...
All above and many other drop from wery specific group of mobs.
Each mob had established specific loot in range of its own loot table of items / resources.
Why mess with all that now?
Click to expand...

I agree that advanced mobs had + have reasonably good loot tables. The issue is sub lvl40 mobs have become so generic in their drops the MU is minimal. There's also no need to hunt a non mission mob, as you don't get the skill gains from killing X amount, but neither do you get increased MU from a rarely hunted mob.

With the change, it should allow all skill levels to find a niche mob to grind regardless of missions, which can only be a good thing. The more intelligence required for hunting the better... (for those with intelligence as you have).
 
Dan59 said:
I dont think that Brain Oil or Heart oil drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that ESI drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Robot Contraction Unit drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Output Amplifier Component drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Ara hide drop from all EU creatures.
I dont think that Chomper hide drop from all EU creatures.
And so on...
All above and many other drop from wery specific group of mobs.
Each mob had established specific loot in range of its own loot table of items / resources.
Why mess with all that now?
Click to expand...

Because a mob drops around 50 different stackables. In order to play eco, that means you need at least a bankroll of 5k.
 
If....and that's a big "If"....loot is distributed better between mobs, by which i mean what is looted by what. Not % returns. Then MA could potentially get away with a high shrapnel % in loot say 30-40%

Rgds

Ace

PS but this does come down to distributing correctly.....which in itself will be a nightmare for MA. I hope the conversation went like this...

MA1: Okay guys we need to stop having generic loot in all mobs, and have a maximum number of different items available from each mob.
MA2: okay lets use that as our limit and work out the loot tables.

If they stick to the first then it should go okay? :confused:
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
Because a mob drops around 50 different stackables. In order to play eco, that means you need at least a bankroll of 5k.
Click to expand...

Agree but i usualy use what i loot in tailoring or crafting textures or crafting components or colloring.
That 5K bankroll is going to be 5K + MU now - if i want to continuie doing other professions.
 
Dan59 said:
Agree but i usualy use what i loot in tailoting or crafting textures or crafting components or colloring.
That 5K bankroll is going to be 5K + MU now - if i want to continuie doing other professions.
Click to expand...

In fact, you will be able to tailor more. If you know what you want to craft it will be easier for you to gather the materials you need since mobs will drop more specific loot. On top of that it will be easier for you to stack the materials you don't need and sell them.
 
Dan59 said:
Agree but i usualy use what i loot in tailoring or crafting textures or crafting components or colloring.
That 5K bankroll is going to be 5K + MU now - if i want to continuie doing other professions.
Click to expand...
As I understand it, this change might benefit small scale crafters/tinkerers.

Before
You want 10 PED of daikiba wool - you cycle 200 PED on Daikiba.
You want 10 PED of fine wool - you cycle 2000+ PED on pretty much any animal because all animals drop it but not often (of course, you can get 50+ PED in a single global but that never happens when you need it. Murphy is great.)

After
You want 10 PED of daikiba wool - you cycle 200 PED on Daikiba.
You want 10 PED of fine wool - you cycle 200 PED on Mob A, Mob B or Mob C.

...or maybe I'm too optimistic. :laugh:

edit: numbers are made up just to illustrate the general principle
 
Aio said:
I agree that advanced mobs had + have reasonably good loot tables. The issue is sub lvl40 mobs have become so generic in their drops the MU is minimal. There's also no need to hunt a non mission mob, as you don't get the skill gains from killing X amount, but neither do you get increased MU from a rarely hunted mob.

With the change, it should allow all skill levels to find a niche mob to grind regardless of missions, which can only be a good thing. The more intelligence required for hunting the better... (for those with intelligence as you have).
Click to expand...

Lets hope, but there is small chance that some missions will be abandoned because skill reward will not pay for lack of resources even if there will be full of shrapnell in loot - ie all will hunt mobs with MU in loot.
 
Dan59 said:
Lets hope, but there is small chance that some missions will be abandoned because skill reward will not pay for lack of resources even if there will be full of shrapnell in loot - ie all will hunt mobs with MU in loot.
Click to expand...

But in the end, all want to play as much as we can. Mission or not, without to depo all the time. I think MU is good for everyone in the end.
 
Haruto Rat said:
...or maybe I'm too optimistic. :laugh:
Click to expand...

Pesimistic version.

Before

You are doing araneatrox iron mission chain - its about to kill 16k mobs.
You loot all what you need - all wools, animal hides, ara hide, extractors, paint cans, oils ect.
Once finished iron mission and before starting new one you use all looted resources, if something remain then sell.

After

You start araneatrox mission but you realise you dont get resources needed.
You can buy in auction and pay MU.
You can abandon mission and hunt specific mob and loosing aditional time and money.
You can abandon fun doing other professions and keep going on ara mission until you die bored.
Ofc you can abandon all, sell shrapnel and be eco by chating in town.
Missions as motivation to play are becoming obsolete in this way.

Well i prefer your wersion as not optimistic but real ofc.
Haruto Rat said:
...or maybe I'm too optimistic. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Lets hope MA did it right
 
And take a look at actual loottables

98 mobs drop interactive simplifier component
92 mobs drop focus lense component
....

This can be continued with a lot of loots.

Imho its enough if 2-4 (per planet) mobs drop a specific resource.

If we got this, the limit would be 15-30 mobs drop a specific resource (whole universe), only a few per planet.

This surely would drive up prices on that resource, but it also offers a hunter the option to hunt exactly that mob that drops a resource which got a shortage of supply atm. Speak, directly hunt for markup, what is nearly impossible today, as every mob drops every comon loot.

In older times it was necessary to hunt specific mobs to get specific resources, that was good for hunters that have had the knowlege about drops. Today knowledge doesn´t matter much.
 
Dan59 said:
Pesimistic version.

Before

You are doing araneatrox iron mission chain - its about to kill 16k mobs.
You loot all what you need - all wools, animal hides, ara hide, extractors, paint cans, oils ect.
Once finished iron mission and before starting new one you use all looted resources, if something remain then sell.

After

You start araneatrox mission but you realise you dont get resources needed.
You can buy in auction and pay MU.
You can abandon mission and hunt specific mob and loosing aditional time and money.
You can abandon fun doing other professions and keep going on ara mission until you die bored.
Ofc you can abandon all, sell shrapnel and be eco by chating in town.
Missions as motivation to play are becoming obsolete in this way.

Well i prefer your wersion as not optimistic but real ofc.

Lets hope MA did it right
Click to expand...

I was looking at it from the POV of someone who hunts a bit here and there but doesn't grind through 16k iron missions in one go :) Here's one scenario I had in mind:
  • I have looted a Medium Insignia Curtain Blueprint (L) with, say, 10 clicks on it;
  • these 10 clicks would take 10.80 of merp textile and 22.50 of wool thread;
  • as merp wool drops from merp (surprising, isn't it? :)), I go and kill some merp. Depending on my luck, it takes somewhere from 30 minutes to 10 hours to harvest 30 pieces of merp wool;
  • now I need 90 pieces of thin wool. Stock I had before has already been spent for other purposes, and I have only 7 pieces left;
  • I check auction and see I can acquire either 300 PED at reasonable price (but I'm unwilling to buy that much) or 30 PED at outrageous price like 166% (because some bastards are betting on my lack of patience; bad bet guys :tongue2:);
  • I try to get some thin wool in street trading. Two or three hours later, I have explained to ~dozen people that I don't buy sweat, don't give away free PED and generally don't give damn about their notions of 'fairness', 'being nice' and all that other s**t that somehow always involves PED for them :laugh:; I still don't have enough thin wool;
  • I go and shoot some random mob for an hour; I loot thin wool once and get four more pieces;
  • so I give up for today and get me some Tempranillo instead.
  • (...)
  • some days later, I suddenly loot ~40 PED of thin wool at once in a small global from a mob that doesn't look woolly at all. Alas, I've already forgot about that blueprint somewhere deep in the storage.

Summa summarum, what I expect from this change is that small amounts of e.g. thin wool, soft hide and stuff like that will be more easily available 'on demand' by grinding Mob X for a while - just like now you know where to go for molisk teeth, basic leather extractors or infrasound emitter components.
 
My conclusion:
Good for MA - they can reduce their balance sheet liabilities if people have universal ammo stocked up.

Good for players:
- they are not forced to switch to universal ammo, but can if they want to at a conversion of 100:101.
- players using universal can track their loots better (if universal always gets used first over other looted ammo, i.e. your full stack of universal is your spending on the hunt). I think a lot of players using ammo probably get their stats wrong by not knowing how much of the ammo loot from the hunt they have actually used up during the hunt. This has not been a problem for melee or MF as nothing looted gets used up again during the hunt, and is one reason I have preferred using those, tbh.
- some players will want to track and shoot all the time, but there won't be enough universal ammo around just from hunting (what you get in each hunt will be far less than what you need for the next one). True, you can now deposit and get it from the store, but I think some of the "some players" here will want to buy shrapnel, even at possibly 102% or so, just like explosives.

On the new loot mix, we'll have to see, but as it starts on Caly, then I guess that's where we'll have to be to try it out.... I wonder how quickly other pps will get their new loot tables implemented...
 
Dan59 said:
Lets hope, but there is small chance that some missions will be abandoned because skill reward will not pay for lack of resources even if there will be full of shrapnell in loot - ie all will hunt mobs with MU in loot.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Eventually mobs could be rebalanced however by increased demand for one of their exclusive drops however. And most mobs will eventually have a mission I guess so some will inevitably hunted more than others (eg rippersnapper atrox)
 
jetsina said:
- players using universal can track their loots better (if universal always gets used first over other looted ammo, i.e. your full stack of universal is your spending on the hunt). I think a lot of players using ammo probably get their stats wrong by not knowing how much of the ammo loot from the hunt they have actually used up during the hunt. This has not been a problem for melee or MF as nothing looted gets used up again during the hunt, and is one reason I have preferred using those, tbh.
Click to expand...

We will not be looting regular ammo any more.
 
ermik said:
[...]

You go hunt with 1010 ped universal ammo, get 92% tt back.

Voila, tt has been magically reduced.
[...].
Click to expand...

Well it used to be 92% in times when miss rate for weapons was 8%...now it is 88% as missrate of weapon is 12%
PPl still confusing this and keep swearing they have bad loot.

It's not bad just new "standard return" is 88%...and it is some time already.
 
SpikeBlack said:
The people most affected by this will be the tailors, colourists and makeup artists where the majority of their resources come from hunting.

Are we getting the decay on clothing / equipping fees removed in this update, which they talked about at the start of the year?
Click to expand...

There is more hunters than tailorsd anyway so it is good change as hunters will have more interesting game and less mindless grind. Ideally one mob should drop only one crafting resource + some unversal hides/ammo

Also it will increase demand on weapons and armors as hunters now will have to use various setups on various mobs in order to get best MU resources from loot. So far you could grind with one setup and get all kinds of resources.

It is hard for me to say that but...good move MA !
 
shoti said:
Well it used to be 92% in times when miss rate for weapons was 8%...now it is 88% as missrate of weapon is 12%
PPl still confusing this and keep swearing they have bad loot.

It's not bad just new "standard return" is 88%...and it is some time already.
Click to expand...

Hitrate is 90% for years now, just sayin
 
Piotr said:
Hitrate is 90% for years now, just sayin
Click to expand...

Iwas refering to MA POV, as there are much more unmaxed ppl on their guns which are making smaller turnover on their unmaxed guns than ppl with 10/10 HA.

So it was like 88% globally for MA POV.

It was counted before introducing "target evade" and "failed" messages along with "free shots while not aimed" but that dont change much globally.
 
whiteknut said:
Yeah some of the generic loot will stay, but probably at first we will see lots of shrapnels and very little regular loots.
Click to expand...

Most likely, they have to get rid of the stackables in players storage before another round of rebalancing. The one's who will get hurt the most will be those who just tt'd everything and didn't build stacks.

Depending on the balance between stackables and the shrapnel it could feel like a return of the old PE which for many of us has been long over due. It's just shame it's taken them this long to accept that introducing more and more stackables to each mob in each VU just made things worse and not better. It felt more like each time they were trying to fix the mess they caused in the previous one.

Hopefully we'll see only the shrapnel introduced with possibly a merging of some stackables.

This might be the first sign of the what the new guy at the top is trying to achieve.
 
the_prophet said:
As I have stated in a thread > someone reminded me of this today >

I think someone needs to tap MA's shoulder and remind them they are THE F*CK*NG PIONEERS OF RCE MMORPG AND THAT THEY DONT NEED TO COPY OTHER GAMES MODELS and that the shit that is now going on -

IS CERTAINLY NOT WHAT MADE THIS GAME POPULAR AT THE BEGINNING AND IS NOT WHAT ATTRACTED SO MANY (INCREDIBLE) PEOPLE THAT YOU HAD/HAVE THE CHANCE TO MEET - TO THIS GAME OVER THE YEARS.


Welcome to monthly subscription game "Entropia Universe"...


I'm out, selling all skills @ boxes, PA, offers accepted via PM too, total amount ~ 150K (hunting, mining, no crafting)
Click to expand...
you promise you out??? that be a very nice addition to a already nice VU, all you can do is whine whine whine anyway
 
Dan59 said:
I dont think that ESI drop from all EU creatures.
Click to expand...

Actually, I Think they should. At least creatures with a reasonable HP. (Kind of an historical thing.)

For me the theory behind ESI drops, has been that you are likely to get one once you have gotten skills enough to fill one. If you Think along that line, then you should be able to loot one also if you hunt a mob such as trilomites.
 
skunkjunk said:
you promise you out??? that be a very nice addition to a already nice VU, all you can do is whine whine whine anyway
Click to expand...


I promise I'm out if you buy all my skills :) PM me for price...


If trolling, shame on you.


If retard, stop posting.


If you have nothing of value to add to the thread, stop posting


If you are MA employee, reply to this post:wtg:
 
I am replying to this post.
Does this mean I can expect a paycheck from Sweden soon? I sure could use the money...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top