The shrapnel conundrom

definitely different, a few hunting runs, a couple global's and 1 hof, were all shrapnel and ammo. I didn't loot a single eye or muscle oil and only a few hides, no wool at all or components. Will be interesting to see where mu goes on many items. So far, I got this feeling, it just got more expensive to keep playing. cost to purchase many items just went up :(
 
Indeed MA not learn yet to make MU rising need make Crafters happy !
 
I seldom tt anything, i auction smart and sell many things that others tt (although very slowly), tiering and enhancer components, leathers etc etc... and for ok mark up also. Of course there are things that i tt without a second thought ... berycylcled claw, atrax bones yadayada. I just think that strangling supply won't solve issue of stuff not selling, but increasing demand via viable blueprints etc would.

A good example of something is crafted vehicle components, they rarely if ever sell due to none or little demand. My answer would have been to do vehicles differently, that your chassis or base of vehicle never dies and have tyres(L), engine (L), etc that are good for certain mileage that need replacing (like real vehicles).

Guess what i am trying to say is impatient people who can't see how to sell is issue on many things, as well as demand to low. Strangling supply i think won't help so much, just translates to higher mark ups for finished goods which then become not used.

I'm not against reduced drops and shrapnel, just seems a clumsy way to rebalance. For me at least i can't see point of shrapnel, is an over complex way of giving us universal ammo. I guess it lowers liabilities in MA accounts tho.
 
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I got my first global last night since the update was implemented. a 95 pedder

42ped Shrapnel
53 ped BLP

Mark that one up..

Not sure about you guys but if things are going to remain like this, i'd much rather it was just peds in the loot instead of the ammo.
 
Is anyone else getting sick of hearing about how horrible it is to be a melee user in this game?


YOUR WEAPON DOESNT EVEN USE ANY AMMO AT ALL, DON'T FU(%$NG COMPLAIN!


If you want to be equal you should write to MA and ask them to make melee weapons use universal ammo to provide energy to the weapon.
 
I've not hunted on caly but from what I'm reading here, arkadian loot seems to be more sensible than caly. There's plenty shrapnel in loot but getting a lot of other stuff too.

Maybe MA just need to tweak a few things on caly, you guys are all welcome to come over to arkadia until they do :)
 
A lot said so far, most have valid points from their point of view.

You have to look at it from different angles:

1. The pure Hunter:
- for the pure hunter, shrapnel is a good thing. Befor he went out killed lots of mobs, then returned TTed 90% of his loots (mainly animal oils, enhancer things and other all below 105% MU), then went back hunting!
- now he gets big part of his loot in form of shrapnels, converting it into U-Ammo at 101%, whats way better than TTing to low MU stuff. Beside that MU on everything else surely will raise, so better chance to break even for hunters.

2. The crafting Hunter
- that one normally used his animal oils to craft those components which use animal oils (Springs, Conductors, Ruds)
- for this hunter its relativ bad, as he won´t get that much oils now to do craft, he needs to shift more to hunting and less crafting
- this is maybe not the badest thing as this would result in lower supply of this components generating a better markup on it, what will be good for break even on these components (for the crafting hunter aswell as for pure crafter)

3. The collecter and trading Hunter
- This hunter always keept nearly everything, and stocked his loots untill it reached an amount that made it worht selling.
- well, now it will take longer for this hunter to get his stocks together (less animal oils in loot), but anyway not that bad, he gets 101% for his shrapnels imediately, and still may build stocks of animal oils that may sell for more than only 100,5% soon.

4. The melee hunter
- he could sell his animal oils for 100,5%, well he may sell his shrapnels for the same price (not that big issue)
- directly compared to ranged hunter it is an bad thing, as ranged hunter gets his ammo cheaper (101% for shrapnels), will melee gets less for his shrapnels and has to repair for TT. Even worse if uses L stuff, he has to pay markup, what was often discuss is like ranged hunters would have to pay markup for their ammo.


5. The component crafter
- its a 2-edged sword, because MU will raise, so he will get higher cost to skill/craft, on the other hand the markup on the crafted components maybe will raise. Time will tell.
- he may adept and focus on components that don´t use looted resource and craft more with mined resources

6. The item crafter
- bad bad bad, he has to force competition against all that looted L gear, as the components he needs to craft items will raise in MU his costs increase, making competition even worse for this crafters.

7. The gambler crafter
- well this one, just wants to hit the big one, buying resources to craft as cheap as possible
- this crafter never cares about markup of his products as he TTs 99% of it anyways
- for this crafter its bad, as raising markup on resource will increase his cost to play
- this one can easyly adept and craft with BPs that use mainly or exclusive cheap mined resources

8. The miner
- nothing changes for them


Overall for most people its a good thing.
IMHO there are not many pure melee hunters, only those that never used / skilled a ranged weapon loose the advantage that shrapnels offer.
Personally I like melee, but also got my ranged gear. I surely will convert my shrapnels into universal ammo, use it for my tagging guns, MF heal or do a pure ranged hunt every here and then. So no bad for me aswell.
Anyways still bitching against MA, because they forgot to think about melee hunters (again!)

Actually I see more positives than negatives, lets see what impact this shrapnels got on MUs.
 
I'm not against reduced drops and shrapnel, just seems a clumsy way to rebalance. For me at least i can't see point of shrapnel, is an over complex way of giving us universal ammo.

I got mixed feelings.

On one hand, it reduces the clutter, and the less different stacks of materials, the less the question (especially for beginners) will be "should I keep this 3 muscle oil, sell it or TT it?". One reason for the "clutter" the past years has been all types of new crafting stuff that's been implemented; animal oils, enhancer crafting Components and extractors

On the other hand, maybe it's a bit drastical in some cases. A mob I've hunted for years suddently doesn't drop any hides and wool anymore - and it's drops that's been there even Before animal oils.

For good and bad, maybe the Changes are to slow down the "amateur crafting": If you don't loot wool+extractors you won't Craft textures unless you seek the materials actively.

Entropedia: Loot tables on Entropedia will be more crucial than Before. Maybe Entropedia needs to be "cleaned up"; mark all previous drops as "inactive" and hide it (unless you really want to see it), and kind of begin from scratch, to shorten down the 4 page list of stackables from each mob. Also, the maintenance of entropedia will be more urgent for general players; while you usually can live with atrox location being unavailible for 3 weeks, getting to learn wich mobs drops common Resources (like animal hides and inferior cloth extractors) will be more will be more needed - aswell as a smooth procedure to register these drops. Needless to say, there should be an administrator who works Daily with it, in case the website gets compromised again and to keep the computer it's running on patched-up.

Also I hope MA isn't involved with planet-specific drops but let's that to the planet partners, so MA (for instance) doesn't run the bullodozer over, let's say, Next Island drops of Crystals and Cyclops bones (or whatever).

Another less obvious thing is how balancing will act on the markup, as a whole, in the end. Let's say Resources X and Y is commonly used to Craft item Z. Then, to increase markup, MA reduces drop of X. This will some people make less Z, so demand of Y will go down, and it will eventually turn into TT-food. Then, possibly, the ones who still makes Z will have harder to Craft it, and then maybe demand of X also will go down. Or, let's say only Puny Daikiba drops wool. Then everyone and their Granma will, eventually, start to hunt Puny Daikiba to get their materials.
 
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Is anyone else getting sick of hearing about how horrible it is to be a melee user in this game?


YOUR WEAPON DOESNT EVEN USE ANY AMMO AT ALL, DON'T FU(%$NG COMPLAIN!


If you want to be equal you should write to MA and ask them to make melee weapons use universal ammo to provide energy to the weapon.

some melee weapons DO use ammo
 
A lot said so far, most have valid points from their point of view.

You have to look at it from different angles:

1. The pure Hunter:
...............................................


Actually I see more positives than negatives, lets see what impact this shrapnels got on MUs.

Good post Goni, but....

As mark ups raise on stackables all crafted tools, amps, guns will be affected raising % and costs to those who use them.

Part of me loves this as is how old PE used to be except ped in loot back then and not shrapnel, but any worries i have will only show as markets adjust. Just wait and see i guess, and at end of day MA can tweak drops as required.

No big hassle
 
MA does things to the extreme. The player base mostly asked for ways to use the useless items looted so they would have some value. New BP's to use items, ingredients to upgrades and the like. I mean, why were they created and in loot to begin with. Instead, MA removes the useless items from loot altogether, along with items that were used frequently, oils, wool's, hides, extractors, paint cans, etc... Kind of like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Now, hunter's, especially crafting hunters, will have to discover which mob still loot desired items, even if they have no desire to hunt that mob, or haven't the skills to solo mob. Was convenient to hunt mission mob and loot items you wanted to craft with. Crafter's, who continue in this profession, will eventually pay more in mu for items because of availability, which in turn will be passed on to player base.

Another instance of MA thinking what's best for us and making a radical change in game, instead of being creative and delivering what most people asked for, a way to use the items already in game. Who asked for this?
 
IDK is it just me who is overthinking this or are you all not able to see where this is all going?

MA is simply changing this game into a monthly subscription game, integrating microtransactions, while on a very low-scale keeping the "RCE component" of it (MU on UL items), which will in a matter of a couple of years (if the game survives for that long at all);

- disperse, be forgotten about, they will probably even convert the existing UL items into (L) ones with excellent durability with the words: " Sorry to inform you that your - once unlimited item, had to - due to recent developments and shifts in the games tralalalala - be converted into a (L) one, thank you for understanding, GL.


Mark my words, save the thread, will see what happens in these harsh years to come, GL getting your "investment in your avatar" back, heavy "investers"...:yup:
 
For me its great because I was tting all that crappy loot anyways to re buy ammo. So I'm pretty much happy.
 
IDK is it just me who is overthinking this or are you all not able to see where this is all going?

MA is simply changing this game into a monthly subscription game, integrating microtransactions, while on a very low-scale keeping the "RCE component" of it (MU on UL items), which will in a matter of a couple of years (if the game survives for that long at all);

- disperse, be forgotten about, they will probably even convert the existing UL items into (L) ones with excellent durability with the words: " Sorry to inform you that your - once unlimited item, had to - due to recent developments and shifts in the games tralalalala - be converted into a (L) one, thank you for understanding, GL.


Mark my words, save the thread, will see what happens in these harsh years to come, GL getting your "investment in your avatar" back, heavy "investers"...:yup:

Keep on dreaming.
 
What would you Think of something like this:

Pretty much, divide loot into four Groups. Let's call them "universal loots", "common loots", "not common loots", and "mob specific loots".

For example:
Universal loots: loots that can drop from pretty much any creature.
Loots like ammo (if dropped), shrapnel, fragments.

Common loot: Loots that drops from a lot of mobs.
By definition sort of, generic hide from most kinds of animals. Soft hides and fine hides at a bit more discretion. Simular thing for wools. I remember long time ago, thin wool from umbranoids, and fine wool from argonauts (just out of my head).
Things like Animal Oil Residue.
From robots, maybe things like robot filter, wires and robot residue.
From puny class mobs, Calypso Bone samples.


"not common loots": Loots that drops from a few mobs.
Let's say Output Amplifiers drops from atrox, daspletors and spiders.
Basic Wood extractors from repesilex, turps and, uh, exosaurs. (Just a wild guess.)

Mob specific loots: Loots that by definition is tied to a specific mob
Spider hides from spiders to give the clearest example. Some cases a looot can drop from more than one mob could be snable skins from m snable and f snable, armax stuff from cow/bull, and Frescoquda hides from frescoquda and troopers.
 
Hello, I have a question in regards to the new shrapnel loot change.

As of now it is possible to p2p trade, TT or convert shrapnel, it is however not possible to auction it. My question is why was the decision to allow for all avenues of trade except auctioning, by far the most convenient way to trade.

By disabling auctioning i think that melee users who was just recently graced with amps to be more equal to ranged will now be faced with a new dissadvantage, Not only will they have a certain % lower turn over posibility on a per ped basis but if they actually want to sell there shrapnel with a markup then they will need to stand in the rain for hours looking for a buyer.

Zweshi

Auctioning shrapnel would be pointless. The price will never rise above 101%, and you still have to cover the auction cost.
 
Melee hunter it is TT food, you are gun hunter or mindforce hunter you get extra to go get that next 70% ROI.

70% ROI?
That is insane ROI (thats 700 ped profit per every 1000 ped of amo used)
Or did you just mean 70% TT return?
 
Auctioning shrapnel would be pointless. The price will never rise above 101%, and you still have to cover the auction cost.

Unless MA has some reason for it, for instance for the very reason of keeping the trade of it down among the big cyclers, I wouldn't mind it being auctionable.

Pretty much if you can sell 200 ped TT shrapnel for 201 ped, the buyer earns from it and seller gets enough to cover the auction fee, and it's not unlikely high roller hunters can get over 200 peds of it during a day.
 
Now, hunter's, especially crafting hunters, will have to discover which mob still loot desired items, even if they have no desire to hunt that mob, or haven't the skills to solo mob. Was convenient to hunt mission mob and loot items you wanted to craft with. Crafter's, who continue in this profession, will eventually pay more in mu for items because of availability, which in turn will be passed on to player base.

Another instance of MA thinking what's best for us and making a radical change in game, instead of being creative and delivering what most people asked for, a way to use the items already in game. Who asked for this?

tbh it's now more like it was when I started with players specialising in certain mob types or having one armor suitable for acid, one for burn and one for impact and they'd hunt mobs for their resources rather than mission rewards.

If it wasn't people at MA messing with the loot tables continuously it wouldn't have diverted away from that for so long.

We used to have websites specifically for tracking what mobs drop what. And the one I used to check is still active http://www.entropia-loot.com/?s=loot at the moment it looks a bit barren but go back a few VU's and you start to see the difference.

Adapt and survive.

Personally I'd have gone even further.
 
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tbh it's now more like it was when I started with players specialising in certain mob types or having one armor suitable for acid, one for burn and one for impact and they'd hunt mobs for their resources rather than mission rewards.

If it wasn't people at MA messing with the loot tables continuously it wouldn't have diverted away from that for so long.

We used to have websites specifically for tracking what mobs drop what. And the one I used to check is still active http://www.entropia-loot.com/?s=loot at the moment it looks a bit barren but go back a few VU's and you start to see the difference.

Adapt and survive.

Personally I'd have gone even further.

They say in the dev notes that this is only 'Phase one' of the new loot distribution system. So they may indeed go further.
 
Why would anyone buy shrapnel? You can get ammo from the TT for 100%.

You can currently, in Eve (when I played it 9 years ago) you crafted your own ammo from loot.

Maybe this is a step in the direction of removal of ammo from TT and in the future, if you want ammo, you either have to craft it yourself or buy from someone who already has.

Yeah it may never happen, just like we thought the unlimited Opalo would always be purchasable from TT. ;)
 
sure you can buy 100% ammo from tt,


but if you buy shrapnel at 100.5% you will get MORE ammo for your peds than from TT
 
sure you can buy 100% ammo from tt,


but if you buy shrapnel at 100.5% you will get MORE ammo for your peds than from TT

Another advantage is that you can use the same ammo if you for instance have a plasma tagger+blp handgun.
 
AND arsonistic and regen

I'm lovin it
 
sure you can buy 100% ammo from tt,


but if you buy shrapnel at 100.5% you will get MORE ammo for your peds than from TT

Yes but what a lot are over looking here is the universal ammo itself. What is it really good for? And why would MA be wanting us to use it? I for one will never convert Shrapnel into ammo as I never really like to use looted ammo as well. I really only like to use the TT ammo since there is no link to it as being 'reused' ammo to effect any chance of it having any ties with the loot return of the mob.

So yes sounds kind of odd right? I'm not the one who is bring out shrapnel and wanting the players to use it giving this a good reason with this 100:101 return right?
 
i collect my shrapnel and tt it...

you have to cycle universal ammo, no other way to get ped out of it again, so (if we take the magic 95% return number) the conversion rate is more like 95.95%...

what if i see opportunity and have 500 ped locked in universal ammo? don't like it:D (the universal ammo)..don't have general problem with shrapnel..it is like shiny coins in the old days, we just have to see how markets stabalize with no more oils but ammo and shrapnel in hofs..for sure oil prices will go up
 
We used to have websites specifically for tracking what mobs drop what. And the one I used to check is still active http://www.entropia-loot.com/?s=loot at the moment it looks a bit barren but go back a few VU's and you start to see the difference.

Hey, good old ZAP´s table.
I like that very much :D

+ REP for sharing the link :)
 
hunting Big Bulk solo got a global with half my loot in shrapnel, NO THX!. Guess i will reduce or quit hunting until loot is changed again.
 
I don't mind the shrapnel in loot, I think it's a better idea than getting regular ammo that adds to your stacks and messes up your hunting data somewhat...

However, I don't think we should be getting weapon cells/BLP ammo + Shrapnel. This doesn't make any sense.. Also, what happened to explosive ammo? I haven't confirmed one mob that is dropping it..

I would prefer ONLY Shrapnel + Explosives + normal loot!! NOT shrapnel AND weapon cells/BLP
 
hunting Big Bulk solo got a global with half my loot in shrapnel, NO THX!. Guess i will reduce or quit hunting until loot is changed again.

Would you be happier when half your loot was:

interactive simplifier component 100.08% MU
socket IV component 100.05% MU
paint violet cream 100.2% MU
socket V component 100.24% MU
robot heat sink 100.32% MU
robot weapon sight 100.47% MU
robot hyper charger 100.47% MU
robot weapon grip 100.73%

any compilation of the above ?

Would you have just TTed it to buy more ammo?

Well in that case be happy, now you got shrapnels. Directly converting it into ammo, makes 101%

I don´t get all this complaints!

(loots and markups taken from Entropedia)
 
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