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The shrapnel conundrom

GoNi said:
Would you be happier when half your loot was:

interactive simplifier component 100.08% MU
socket IV component 100.05% MU
paint violet cream 100.2% MU
socket V component 100.24% MU
robot heat sink 100.32% MU
robot weapon sight 100.47% MU
robot hyper charger 100.47% MU
robot weapon grip 100.73%

any compilation of the above ?

Would you have just TTed it to buy more ammo?

Well in that case be happy, now you got shrapnels. Directly converting it into ammo, makes 101%

I don´t get all this complaints!

(loots and markups taken from Entropedia)
Click to expand...

Personally i would prefer the junk and have the choice to tt it and buy ammo, probes, a natty hat or whatever. But i also understand why others love the change, depends on play style and turnover. For me i got a kick out of selling junk for higher mark up in lower volume stacks, helps keep the books balanced but.... limits my turnover and storage is often full to brimming with stuff i choose to sell slowly.

For others cycling high ped volume just takes away the hassle of tt-ing it, and gives 101% universal ammo which btw is not tt-able. Others dislike the very fact that uni ammo once converted means that ammo can no longer be tt'd in emergency for auction, hair cut or wanting to mine... or whatever (but shrapnel can ofc but once converted is to late).

As i said i kinda understand different reasons etc for loving/hating the new shrapnel but until the markets adjust to the new drop rates nobody really knows (including Ma i suspect) the outcome. Looking at loot without the ammo/shrapnel on most mobs now with current mark ups looks bad, but market will adjust over next few weeks.

As for me i'm watching and waiting, doing other stuff and burning last of uni ammo i bought from the shop (20h-dna i sold for 50 ped so was done deal). Also i think they said is just the 1st rebalance with more to come.

I would advise people who are unhappy wait it out and see.
 
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GoNi said:
Would you be happier when half your loot was:

interactive simplifier component 100.08% MU
socket IV component 100.05% MU
paint violet cream 100.2% MU
socket V component 100.24% MU
robot heat sink 100.32% MU
robot weapon sight 100.47% MU
robot hyper charger 100.47% MU
robot weapon grip 100.73%

any compilation of the above ?
Click to expand...


Oh please if you are going to pull numbers out make them look a bit better. Nice to see all are at 100.X % Sorry, the market is bad but LOL it's not that bad ok? Most of the items you listed as of last month had a avg MU of around 104%
 
OZtwo said:
Oh please if you are going to pull numbers out make them look a bit better. Nice to see all are at 100.X % Sorry, the market is bad but LOL it's not that bad ok? Most of the items you listed as of last month had a avg MU of around 104%
Click to expand...

Official MU doesn't mean you can really sell it at that...
 
Neil Stockton said:
Official MU doesn't mean you can really sell it at that...
Click to expand...

Yeah, a lot of that stuff you come back from one hunt and you have tt value of stuff that is more than what has sold the past month. Nothing to do but tt it.
 
I like the shrapnel idea, but i don't like that its mixed with regular Laser/BLP ammo.
...tho the 'ammo globals' only seems to be a big problem in Calypso...
 
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aframo said:
I like the shrapnel idea, but i don't like that its mixed with regular Laser/BLP ammo.
...tho the 'ammo globals' only seems to be a big problem in Calypso...
Click to expand...

Easy solution would be, replace all comon ammo in loot with explosives.
 
SpikeBlack said:
tbh it's now more like it was when I started with players specialising in certain mob types or having one armor suitable for acid, one for burn and one for impact and they'd hunt mobs for their resources rather than mission rewards.

If it wasn't people at MA messing with the loot tables continuously it wouldn't have diverted away from that for so long.

We used to have websites specifically for tracking what mobs drop what. And the one I used to check is still active http://www.entropia-loot.com/?s=loot at the moment it looks a bit barren but go back a few VU's and you start to see the difference.

Adapt and survive.

Personally I'd have gone even further.
Click to expand...


Just read the new Developers notes. https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...Developer-Notes-9-Version-Update-15-0-Preview looks like MA is indeed going back to the way loot was distributed years ago.

"The first phase of an effort to improve the distribution of looted stackable resources will be implemented in VU 15.0, starting with a majority of Planet Calypso creatures. Veteran participants will recall how several years ago most types of looted stackables could only be looted from particular creatures.

The benefit of returning to that method of distribution is a reduction in the number of different items looted in a particular hunting session, as well as more a more interesting hunting experience that allows hunters to leverage wisdom gained from previous hunts. Loots for creatures on other planets will be adjusted in the upcoming partner releases after 15.0.
"

Always said I wish I'd have found this game earlier, now I'll get a taste of how it used to be. It's funny, that to advance the game, MA has to go backward.
 
MU for all components and items, recieved in loot, except shrapnel, must be higher than 110% and up to 500-2000%. Then will be more interesting to play EU. And then - what I see now, it is absolutely the right move of MA. But they have to think about that from the mobs at least 10-15 level (not below) could drop something very expensive, such as ESI. All other what I seen will work fine for market atm.
 
Bad to Economy

Actually I see this a bad to Economy (actual returns).. as this is just plain increase of average cost 2play (I am player what does Hoard mats andthen click)

Simple S-D Model ... For Hunters to be able 2 get more MU You need Crafter .... and there should be Crafter what is ready 2 pay. @ the moment average crafting run Crafting TT return is 65- 73 % TT most of time (I do few K different components runs regularly, and then little bit Tools/ weapons), seldom ~ TT 105% , thus making need to break even at minimums 150% + ... for only TT loss coverage


Just tried 2 assemple Crafting run, bought additional 250 PED mats from soc mate, who was saving those for me, and saw that need to get more Muscle what is in AH being ~ 107+% available ... did add MU data to run (have Calc) and found that expected return went down for 9.24 % with all MU included , and what I am expecting to loose those from Total PED cycled ... (I do not care about TT return itself bzw... but end result with including Mat MU and product MU @ the end),....

And I did went sweating ... :) (Crafting run mats TT Value 1200 + PED sitting now in storage, and not sure if i would be clicking those .... )

I gues time 2 Sell out things

Resnis
 
Resnis said:
Actually I see this a bad to Economy

...

Resnis
Click to expand...

Who likes to burn oils at ТТ price on condition - can relax.
Soon you'll be taking a calculator and multiply your losses at MU paid to hunters. You will whine?
Yes. But enough. EU is dynamic. Current state is better than pre-VU

We need to return to the old loot system. I am against egalitarianism, which implemented in 2012

What%2Bused%2Bto%2Bbe%2B


Old loot: Money, items, a little quantity of materials. Money = shrapnel in current case.
 
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less variety = less crafting

Also , time to time I did like 2 do few click on different BP ... and there were problem ... there were impossible 2 collect specific Materials (small amounts = Amatheur crafter), as was called in some previous posts, I was looking 2 do like 10 - 20 or so click only , Now those Mats 1.st will become rare and with aditional MU what would just set my thought 2 click those BPS off, so again not buying those= They are TT food again...

AH being listed in amounts of what 2 click with my turnover (I tried 2 sell those = limited more with actual market volumes, not just clikcing "against" TT machine)


So with these "developments" my investments are just been fucked up ... soooo,. less trust in MA RCE ... (As for Loot being not TT and Bound ... becomming no RCE ... lol)

Resnis
 
Resnis said:
Also , time to time I did like 2 do few click on different BP ... and there were problem ... there were impossible 2 collect specific Materials (small amounts = Amatheur crafter), as was called in some previous posts, I was looking 2 do like 10 - 20 or so click only , Now those Mats 1.st will become rare and with aditional MU what would just set my thought 2 click those BPS off, so again not buying those= They are TT food again...

AH being listed in amounts of what 2 click with my turnover (I tried 2 sell those = limited more with actual market volumes, not just clikcing "against" TT machine)


So with these "developments" my investments are just been fucked up ... soooo,. less trust in MA RCE ... (As for Loot being not TT and Bound ... becomming no RCE ... lol)

Resnis
Click to expand...

No, see from different angle.

Low markup = huge stacks at auction often way above 1000 parts, TT values above 150-200 PED/stack. To cover auction fee.
High markup = smaller stacks can be sold already covering auction fee and still making a small profit vs TTing it.

High roller crafter, still will look for big stacks of whatever resource.
Lower crafter, got the option to buy smaller stacks, used in smaller crafts, without having huge stack left over.

Let me explain:

Crafter needs something with TT value 0.02 PED at actual markup 101%
Lowest stack he can expect at auction (without paying way more than marketvalue) = 100 PED (seller makes +0.48 at this stack as 0.52 is auction fee) - BO = 101 PED
So this crafter got 5000 of this items, but needs only 600 to do this 100 clicks he wants to do.

Now take a look at same item, at markup 120%
Lowest stack he can expect at auction (without paying way more than marketvalue) = 5 PED (seller makes +0.48 at this stack as 0.52 is auction fee) - BO = 6 PED
In that case the crafter got 300 of this item, oh god damn, still needs 300 more to do this 100 clicks he wants to do.

You see the advantage for crafters, if markup is higher?

The crafter don´t have to lock insane amounts of PED in remaining materials, when doing small craft runs.
Crafting may be affordable for players that don´t have a bankroll of several 1000 PED.

More people would try out crafting, as I did in the old days.
Still like crafting, but damn so much PED locked in resource I reallly don´t need in that amounts I bought it.
 
ty GoNi for explaining
Moreover, you will be ready to buy a gun with MU 250% if there will be possibilty to loot something with MU 1k% ;)
Some of us remember times, when Metal residue has a 140% MU, and animal heart oil more than 190%
 
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It's going to be quite hard to get used to the change, and we won't see the full effects on the market for a while (and not before loot on other planets changes too), but in the long run I feel it will be good.

At this stage however I think the change may have been a bit too extreme. I think it would be better if the ammo we're getting now (which is totally pointless and annoying) was replaced by more volume in the materials, so that we're coming back from a hunt with the same amount of shrapnel but bigger stacks of the oils, paints, hides etc.
 
ppl do lont read all post through/ understand it

More in replay to GoNi

You are correct for Math... but You did not read + understand my post ...I do calculate Actual Cost of click.... and compare to MU is product + would there we

I as a crafter I am not ready 2 pay increase from 101-105 to 120%+ for any of mentioned mats... as I already assume that as direct additional loss (that is Direct cost increase)

And posting this 2nd time I am not about TT of click but ACTUAL Cost 2 Click -> Making expected price of item higher for calculated breaking even ... and I doubt there will be buyer for that inflated price (@ the moment actually I am in quite in a loss with crafting) .... so I just do not buy = no deal ... and TT eat those mats anyway ... Ps I prefare 2 buy of Soc mates even that much more hastle, but can at least provide some MU for them (smallMU but still), now I expect that would be possible less ...




Resnis
 
Resnis said:
More in replay to GoNi

You are correct for Math... but You did not read + understand my post ...I do calculate Actual Cost of click.... and compare to MU is product + would there we

I as a crafter I am not ready 2 pay increase from 101-105 to 120%+ for any of mentioned mats... as I already assume that as direct additional loss (that is Direct cost increase)

And posting this 2nd time I am not about TT of click but ACTUAL Cost 2 Click -> Making expected price of item higher for calculated breaking even ... and I doubt there will be buyer for that inflated price (@ the moment actually I am in quite in a loss with crafting) .... so I just do not buy = no deal ... and TT eat those mats anyway ... Ps I prefare 2 buy of Soc mates even that much more hastle, but can at least provide some MU for them (smallMU but still), now I expect that would be possible less ...

Resnis
Click to expand...

I can also say that I assume that you are not intelligent, does that make it true??? Complaining about expected losses, friggin hilarious. Thanks for the laugh tho.
 
Resnis,

You do not understood.

If MU for click will rise, MU for item will rise too.
If you do a click for 10 PED, 20 PED with MU, then calculate MU for product not with TT, but with MU.
For unlimited item in my explanation it will be around +46 PED to cover all losses, for limited it depends from TT of crafted item.
There is NO static MU for item ;)
It will be so high, as you can set, and as accept you raw components.
 
O_O who will be buying inflated crafted items

See title ...

I am assuming that player are Homo Sapiens not Homo Vulgaris ... and are able 2 make rational decisions ....

And You also wrote that price for crafted items is expected to rise .... My point is that I doubt that there will be INCREASE of other players willing to pay more .... so taking some basic S&D axiome ... MU increase on crafter item might not reflect direct cost increase ...

Ps. Take COS into account 2 ... lol, have streaks of 15- 18 "NO success" in row for items often upto 10... thus those Mat MU increase does multiply in actual cost/click
 
Resnis said:
See title ...

I am assuming that player are Homo Sapiens not Homo Vulgaris ... and are able 2 make rational decisions ....

And You also wrote that price for crafted items is expected to rise .... My point is that I doubt that there will be INCREASE of other players willing to pay more .... so taking some basic S&D axiome ... MU increase on crafter item might not reflect direct cost increase ...

Ps. Take COS into account 2 ... lol, have streaks of 15- 18 "NO success" in row for items often upto 10... thus those Mat MU increase does multiply in actual cost/click
Click to expand...

Do you understand the meaning of a sufficiently large sample group?? It has been said numerous times that small samples will never give the full picture, but please go on about your 10-20 clicks as a valid example. Geez....
 
Resnis,
you do not understand a idea of manufacturing in EU.
People like you will always be a loser and will whine. We speak on different languages​​, unfortunately.
In all senses of the word.

Added:
As answer: Maybe someone does not want to pay more today, so be it. All cheap supplies will run out tomorrow or in the next month. And then they will pay. Because it is impossible to buy cheaper. If you're smart enough - you will just wait and miss this transitional period. If not, you always can go and always play with TT :)
 
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I see shrapnel as unvanted thing in loot similar to all types of ammo, nova fragments ect.
Instead to have less itmes we have 2 more items in EU - shrapnel and universal ammo.

I suppose that all loot in EU is reduced for 1%.
Only way to get that 1% back is to be forced to convert sharpnel and use universal ammo.

As for supposed increase on stackables MU - untill now i looted all stackables i need for other porfessions.
Rarely i had to buy them.
If i cant get needed resources by myself i will not practice other professions then, except i get resources under TT value lol.
So by my side MU will not change.

After 2 days with new system i have almost 80 milions of shrapnel in my inventory.
Thats like 8 K peds.
That is enought for 20 modfaps and one mod merc .
There is a bug, cant find all those mod faps and mod merc in inventory from loot, just shrapnel.
 
too many "old" players were complaining about how the "old" days were better. How they got peds in the loot and that made things better..... shrapnel represents peds, thats about it.... unfortunately the price of everything will skyrocket and make the game more expensive for all to play. anything crafted will cost much much more now, since material MU is on the rise. We will just have to ride it out and see if things "balance" out
 
Dan,
With all due respect to you, I doubt that you can serve all of us! :D
There also remain something for us...

Chuck,
We are NOT complain. We are happy )
 
I don't know what some of you think,
but I found that "shrapnel" thing..... at least..... "interesting" :yup:
it as good change for me tho
 
Gewitter said:
Dan,
With all due respect to you, I doubt that you can serve all of us! :D
There also remain something for us...

Chuck,
We are NOT complain. We are happy )
Click to expand...

I didn serve anyone, appart hunting i used resources for skilling purposes in crafting, tailoring, colloring, texturising. For that i said that MU was not affected by my activity.
As me also many other players did it and still do.
But we can stop ofc that mean les play, les decay.
Traders and reselers are not affected because skilling products and resources usualy got consumed by personal use or by TT ing.
So not just something but all remain still available for you...
 
GoNi said:
Would you be happier when half your loot was:

interactive simplifier component 100.08% MU
socket IV component 100.05% MU
paint violet cream 100.2% MU
socket V component 100.24% MU
robot heat sink 100.32% MU
robot weapon sight 100.47% MU
robot hyper charger 100.47% MU
robot weapon grip 100.73%

any compilation of the above ?

Would you have just TTed it to buy more ammo?

Well in that case be happy, now you got shrapnels. Directly converting it into ammo, makes 101%

I don´t get all this complaints!

(loots and markups taken from Entropedia)
Click to expand...


Yes as you put it you are right. but you missed the mu they drop gazz etc.


I wish i would of screenshot it. 280 ped global was my last, 150 ped in shrapnel, 130 ped in weapon cells. ZERO stackable items or oils all shrapnel and ammo. Its more of the shrapnel/ammo ration I am unhappy with. I loot way more ammo then normal also.
 
As is often the case MA turns their dials and flips their switches without knowing themselves what the results will be. Yes, they are idiots. They scheme to increase decay to improve their own profits and they blindly tamper with the economy risking the value of the profitability for the player base. We've seen time and time-again where they go too far, knowing the uproar their changes will generate, so that they can back things off to the level they originally intended in the first place. Often, they just simply fuck it all up for seemingly no good reason. This is how MA have always failed to properly managed Entropia.

Did they really think giving you back your precious pets was going to blind you to the fact that they completely screwed with your loot system?

Personally, my habit, especially during shared Toothy's, was to TT all the loot (yes all) and recycle. Loot, TT, recycle, repeat. I don't craft and rarely even craft with animal oils. I just wanted more PED to buy more ammo, to kill more Toothy's. With shrapnel I can convert on-the-fly and continue hunting without visiting the trade terminal. It's worked well for me so far. I have less crap to TT. Now, if that "crap" starts having decent mark-up I might think twice what I do with it. But I honestly think MA will realize their idiocy and make some future adjustments to make the player base less angry.
 
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Charlie Gloom said:
Yes as you put it you are right. but you missed the mu they drop gazz etc.


I wish i would of screenshot it. 280 ped global was my last, 150 ped in shrapnel, 130 ped in weapon cells. ZERO stackable items or oils all shrapnel and ammo. Its more of the shrapnel/ammo ration I am unhappy with. I loot way more ammo then normal also.
Click to expand...

As said above:
280 PED in robot heat sinks, sold at 100.5% = 1.4 PED markup - 0.52 auction fee = 0,88 PED markup colected

Your 150 PED shrapnels, converted at 101% into UA = 1.5 PED markup colected, dump normal ammo into TT.

What is the better deal?
Even in PvP trade (saving fee), the shrapnels are better than lowest possible loot.

Beside that, did you loot Gazz from that BBs that didn´t global?
I am sure you did!
 
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