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VU 15 - "improvement" to decrease the MU even more aka eat some shrapnel, suckers

Look, I think MU should reflect the demand for something valuable. So the question MA probably considers is: oils and other stackables have gone down in MU, how do we change the trend?
And then, another bright idea - let's reduce the availability by restricting to mob types (what I believe has been done). Let's not think about increasing the "value" part, seems too complex. And while we are at it let's reduce the complexity for us as well, since we have to replace the loot managers dying from overworking way too often these days.

Now the other side of the coin (which I am worried about and find way more realistic) - what if the MU went down not because of the availability but because of less activity in crafting due to less demand + less people playing = less valuable?
Following. will this re-factoring do any good if this is right? No, quite the opposite. Less availability will make people stop their crafting activities, and it won't increase the playerbase.

I will not comment a lot on your nonsense about making modfaps limited, the day that happens I will very most likely quit. Again this is supposed to be an RCE not utopia.
Gewitter said:
I think we're all idiots, and if we (you and me) are to be compared who do much depo, maybe you will be the loser. However, it's not about that, but about how to raise MU and improve economic.
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girtsn said:
Less availability will make people stop their crafting activities, and it won't increase the playerbase.
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It's the first not funny argument. Yes, it is possible. But it can only show the time.
What I wrote to you above, is not a utopia, but we get another game.
 
Lets dispense with insults and provocations shall we? This is an important topic that merits a serious discussion and it shouldnt be polluted with crap like that.
 
Kim|Calypso said:
Lets dispense with insults and provocations shall we? This is an important topic that merits a serious discussion and it shouldnt be polluted with crap like that.
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Kim, tell me please, whether it is possible to implement of my ideas? Or not? And if not - why not?
 
Quoting my opinion from another thread, since Kim is reading:

Oleg said:
It's going to be quite hard to get used to the change, and we won't see the full effects on the market for a while (and not before loot on other planets changes too), but in the long run I feel it will be good.

At this stage however I think the change may have been a bit too extreme. I think it would be better if the ammo we're getting now (which is totally pointless and annoying) was replaced by more volume in the materials, so that we're coming back from a hunt with the same amount of shrapnel but bigger stacks of the oils, paints, hides etc.
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Gewitter said:
I am not a trader, but hunter, miner and crafter. I was talking about replacing the current owned items on the market value (200000 PED TT for Mod (L) for exchange to UL Mod), so as not to infringe upon those who have paid these huge amounts of money. No more FAP will be UL, will only L with 5 PED TT

Same rules with other items. Current price with MU - UL changed to L with similar TT as TT+MU
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1. Then noone would buy it.
2. Could you adress my argument instead of talking about something else?
 
Dude, please, did you even read the message you are quoting? Your suggestions are way off-topic among other things. Please create another thread for them?
Gewitter said:
Kim, tell me please, whether it is possible to implement of my ideas? Or not? And if not - why not?
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Gewitter said:
Kim, tell me please, whether it is possible to implement of my ideas? Or not? And if not - why not?
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There's just no way that could ever happen. Its true that some items such as the mod fap should never have been introduced in the first place but now that they are here we cant alter them in such a way as it would completely erode the confidence players have for investing in their avatar, plus the fact that its a fundamentally flawed approach. What we can do to limit the effect of such items on the economy as a whole is to do things like item upgrade quests where two items can make one better etc, but on a completely voluntary basis.
 
Kim|Calypso said:
Lets dispense with insults and provocations shall we? This is an important topic that merits a serious discussion and it shouldnt be polluted with crap like that.
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We do understand that communicating with the player base has to be restricted due to the very nature of the game. Due to this we will have always have heated discussions when so little information is available and MA feed back is non-existent. So any discussion NOT involving 1 part (even if all MA answers is "Can not answer that question") will not be serious.
 
Oleg said:
Quoting my opinion from another thread, since Kim is reading:
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I am of the same opinion that it will take some time before the market adjusts and we will see the true effect of these changes. The purpose of having a high portion of TT food like ammo or shrapnel is to increase the markup of the stackables so were no longer stuck at like 102%, the portion of TT food will likely be tweaked a lot depending on the effect we see.

Also, since the hard-cap on stackables is in place on all planets we will see a strong effect on other planets as well, no more 20 000 PED stacks of a single oil on uber loots.
 
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Kim, thank you for answer. But as you can see, my idea was covered by huge amounts of PED in TT of these L items. Trust of playerbase will remain only in this case.
 
Gewitter said:
I am not a trader, but hunter, miner and crafter. I was talking about replacing the current owned items on the market value (200000 PED TT for Mod (L) for exchange to UL Mod), so as not to infringe upon those who have paid these huge amounts of money. No more FAP will be UL, will only L with 5 PED TT

Same rules with other items. Current price with MU - UL changed to L with similar TT as TT+MU
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Well personally i would be pissed as hell about such a change ( as many others probably as well ). So let's assume everyone would get what they paid for their items in TT value ( which is not realistic ), how many do you think would be pissed enough to take the chance to convert the value directly from their PED Cards to their bank account ?

And i can assure you even when it is not every one it will be more than that can be withdrawn. And the chances are good that would be an instant end for Mindark, because they would not be able to serve the PED liabilities => End of trust, Likely End of game.

I think there are easier ways to commit economical sucide like burning the office, the servers and the backups down. This will bring EU to an instant end. Less painful
 
Gewitter said:
Kim, tell me please, whether it is possible to implement of my ideas? Or not? And if not - why not?
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Well let me try to explain why your idea about removing uL (high markup gear) is just impossible.

Someone paid 350k PED for a Mod FAP years ago, the money he paid for it is weather used in decay or withdrawn by the seller, doesn´t matter, it no longer exists ingame.
Mod FAP got a TT value of 160 PED

So every existing Mod FAP, MA got a liability against the players of 160 PED = 16$ / Mod FAP

You want to convert it into a L item meeting the originally paid markup, in that case 350k PED

If MA does this, MA produces a liability of 350k PED = 35k$ that MA don´t have. MA can´t produce money that never existet without facing the concequences (bankrupt)

Actually there are don´t know exact number so its more a guess 17 Mod FAPs, that would be 595k $ liability for MA over night without getting anything. Speak a giveaway of more than half million dollars.
No manager with a little brain, will do that !

If some player sells his Mod FAP at 350k PED some other player has to have that money, speak MA already got that money from deposits, so if the seller gets his cash after trade and cashes out, MA loses only what they are liable for anyways and what has been deposited in the past.
 
Dear Kim,
could you provide some feedback on my reply above, it is very on-topic and expressing doubt on the assumption you just formulated MU will go up without increasing the "value" part, just fiddling with availability
Kim|Calypso said:
I am of the same opinion that it will take some time before the market adjusts and we will see the true effect of these changes. The purpose of having a high portion of TT food like ammo or shrapnel is to increase the markup of the stackables so were no longer stuck at like 102%, the portion of TT food will likely be tweaked a lot depending on the effect we see.
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Jennson said:
...
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You're all talking about consequences of burning offices and the end of the МА company. But you have not offered anything to improve the situation with unused items. And when the developers are trying to improve the situation with their demand - you are not satisfied with it, too. This is wrong.
 
Kim|Calypso said:
I am of the same opinion that it will take some time before the market adjusts and we will see the true effect of these changes. The purpose of having a high portion of TT food like ammo or shrapnel is to increase the markup of the stackables so were no longer stuck at like 102%, the portion of TT food will likely be tweaked a lot depending on the effect we see.
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We would need a way to let players with smaller bankrolls inside the auction. As of today, I am guesstimating that it would require a bankroll of at least 5k to be able to auction out low markup goods, even with the recent changes.

One possibility could be to add the ability to bid with PEC when an item has a lower tt value, and perhaps an auction fee that is directly linear with the value of the item, much like today but without the standard fee.

Obviously, this would flood the auction, so why not another NPC and auction system? Limit the ability to sell at it to avatars that sold items for less than x peds the last month.
 
Gewitter said:
You're all talking about consequences of burning offices and the end of the МА company. But you have not offered anything to improve the situation with unused items. And when the developers are trying to improve the situation with their demand - you are not satisfied with it, too. This is wrong.
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and the consequence of pumping in millions of peds directly from MA bank account into player inventory?

So its unused items now. Is this referring to imp/mod faps and other high end items?
 
With a higher MU on the stackables will increase the cost of all items. It is possible that this will reduce the production. In particular, I hope, it will be less crafters who burn resources on condition for Hof's. This is the positive side. But maybe not. You all must know when some of these players start crafting, MU for several mostly used ores/enmatters rise in 10-20%. Also here need to tweak mining return too, i think, because if hunting return will decreased (and MU for it increased), these players will switch to mining resources.

PS I will ignore all your sarcastic and trolling attempts if future here
 
Gewitter said:
With a higher MU on the stackables will increase the cost of all items. It is possible that this will reduce the production. In particular, I hope, it will be less crafters who burn resources on condition for Hof's. This is the positive side. But maybe not. You all must know when some of these players start crafting, MU for several mostly used ores/enmatters rise in 10-20%. Also here need to tweak mining return too, i think, because if hunting return will decreased (and MU for it increased), these players will switch to mining resources.

PS I will ignore all your sarcastic and trolling attempts if future here
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Your confusing crafter and gambler.
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
Your confusing crafter and gambler.
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ok, ok let it be gambler, but here is no difference.
Is it possible that these gamblers will burn all the resources and we get the deficit?
 
Gewitter said:
With a higher MU on the stackables will increase the cost of all items. It is possible that this will reduce the production. In particular, I hope, it will be less crafters who burn resources on condition for Hof's. This is the positive side. But maybe not. You all must know when some of these players start crafting, MU for several mostly used ores/enmatters rise in 10-20%. Also here need to tweak mining return too, i think, because if hunting return will decreased (and MU for it increased), these players will switch to mining resources.

PS I will ignore all your sarcastic and trolling attempts if future here
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On the funny side, so do I :d
 
Gewitter said:
ok, ok let it be gambler, but here is no difference.
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Gambler - Crafts just for HoF

Crafter - Crafts with a strategy and purpose that doesn't rely solely on luck.

You need to separate these groups when talking about crafting in order to make your arguments legit.
 
Kim|Calypso said:
Also, since the hard-cap on stackables is in place on all planets we will see a strong effect on other planets as well, no more 20 000 PED stacks of a single oil on uber loots.
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Looking at current loot system, that means we would get 20 000 PED stacks of ammo and shrapnel on uber loots instead of ANY oils.
 
Look, this thread is about VU15 change and effects it might have on MU in hunting, you started the following other discussions:
  • remarks that if this change only impacts land owners, let them go bankrupt (but they don't impact only owners)
  • investors in this game should see it as a complete gamble and all can change @ any point and its normal
  • (L) modfaps and what not
They belong into another thread since they are off-topic. Should be clear enough.
Gewitter said:
PS I will ignore all your sarcastic and trolling attempts if future here
Click to expand...
 
Ideally I would like to turn off this gambling component of the game, but now you will throw on me, and eat me :)
In this case, the game will become boring and predictable. But then the question is, you will click for HoF resources with MU 500%?

And when on the hunt will HoF with ammo, it turns out that we can no longer obtain Hof with the residue in manufacturing, only with precious stones? If in crafting all remains the same (5k with metal residue), it is disadvantage to hunters (101% vs 106-108%)
 
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dRiFF said:
Looking at current loot system, that means we would get 20 000 PED stacks of ammo and shrapnel on uber loots instead of ANY oils.
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I understand it that way, and think thats a step into right direction.
Big UBER Loots still can hold very high TT items like L swords, or uL weapons above 10k PED full TT values, but mainly shrapnel + ammo, as item drops should be rar drops. uL item drops should be extremly rar drops, or even caped at a set number of existing items in game linked to number of active accounts in game.
 
girtsn said:
Dear Kim,
could you provide some feedback on my reply above, it is very on-topic and expressing doubt on the assumption you just formulated MU will go up without increasing the "value" part, just fiddling with availability
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It is possible, however unlikely, that some stackable items may become too difficult to obtain and if that happens we would take action to counter it. The reason I find this unlikely is that the market has a tendency to adjust itself, if some stackable is becoming scarce chances are someone will try to find the best mob to grind for that particular item. We also haven't restricted the stackables to just one creature, each stackable is shared among a couple of different creatures.
 
dRiFF said:
Looking at current loot system, that means we would get 20 000 PED stacks of ammo and shrapnel on uber loots instead of ANY oils.
Click to expand...

The portion of TT food gets progressively higher based on the size of the loot, from around 50% up to a maximum of somewhere around 90-95%.
 
Kim|Calypso said:
The portion of TT food gets progressively higher based on the size of the loot, from around 50% up to a maximum of somewhere around 90-95%.
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Mining system remain unchanged? Most players will go to mining, to higher MU. If will be able to burn the resources found by miners, so despite the reduction in the amount of animal oils, low MU will remain for them.
 
Gewitter said:
Ideally I would like to turn off this gambling component of the game, but now you will throw on me, and eat me :)
In this case, the game will become boring and predictable. But then the question is, you will click for HoF resources with MU 500%?

And when on the hunt will HoF with ammo, it turns out that we can no longer obtain Hof with the residue in manufacturing, only with precious stones? If in crafting all remains the same (5k with metal residue), it is disadvantage to hunters (101% vs 106-108%)
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I'm gonna try to be polite. You cannot cherry pick elements out of a market economy, extrapolate from the ideas from those elements and come to conclusions. Your reasoning is faulty.
 
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