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  1. #1
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    Pet Math - Cost of tricks and experience gain

    Please note updates at end of post.

    The data was collected with a Bristlehog with 100% Affection and Mood, and 99%-100% Focus. This is important to know, as at lower Focus/Affection/Mood levels the pet gains less experience for the tricks performed, while the cost remains constant. F.ex. at 30% Focus, the Sit action gave only 1.9 Experience, while at 100% Focus it gave 5.4 Experience.

    PEC
    Cost Exp. Action
    0.334 0.7 Greet
    0.835 1.8 Dance
    1,700 3.6 Bow
    2.500 5.2 Roll over
    2.600 5.4 Sit

    Please note that these are the only observable (display) values available to us, why cost may be around +/- 0.5 mPEC, and Experience gain may be +/- 0.05 Experience points.

    Focus consumption is harder to assess, as Focus is an asymptotic display value (f.ex. it took 2 minutes to regen focus from 98 to 99, but after 11 minutes it hadn't yet rolled over to 100% - more on this here). Suffice it to say that more costly tricks consume more Focus. As an example, I have observer Sit make Focus go from 99% to both 90% and 87%, at 98% it dropped to 79%, and at 79% it dropped to 30%. Regeneration of focus from 30% to 99% takes approximately 25 minutes.

    With this data, we can also derive the most eco tricks to perform to skill our pet, but keep in mind this does not include the regeneration time needed (and the accompanying tiny experience gains).

    Exp/PEC Trick
    2.155689 Dance
    2.117647 Bow
    2.095808 Greet
    2.080000 Roll over
    2.076923 Sit

    [EDIT: Exp/PEC updated for Greet. Was using a stale value from a pet without full Affection and Mood]

    Update 2014-11-01
    With access to a different pet, where it has been possible to better see the decay and Experience values due to less rounding errors, current data suggests the cost of tricks is a function of max tt of the pet, with the following divisors.
    • 1200 Greet
    • 480 Dance
    • 240 Bow
    • 160 Roll over
    • 150 Sit

    Example: Bristlehog max tt = 4 PED. Bow should cost 400 (PEC) / 240 = 1 2/3 PEC. Due to rounding errors it shows up as 1.7 PEC. Daikiba Ancient Strong: Dance = 1600 / 480 = 3 1/3 PEC. This so far correlates with empirical data.

    It could therefore also be that Exp./PEC at 100% Pet Focus, Affection and Mood, is to be 2.01 for all tricks (very close to observed data with the Daikiba on Greet and Dance actions), but due to rounding errors in the display (or even internally int the calculations) it displays a large variation in gain/cost for puny pets. This however requires further study and validation.
    Last edited by tamlin; 11-01-2014 at 14:32.

  2. #2
    Prowler MarieWoodell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamlin View Post
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    The data was collected with a Bristlehog with 100% Affection and Mood, and 99%-100% Focus. This is important to know, as at lower Focus/Affection/Mood levels the pet gains less experience for the tricks performed, while the cost remains constant.
    This is extremely interesting to know as I tried to test the cost of the trick verses xp gain by leveling a hog from lvl 1 to 2 by both keeping the focus above 95% and by running the focus down to 13% with a few tricks, and then letting it regenerate just enough to perform a single trick again and noticed no discernable cost difference just that it was slower to gain the xp. Could it be that only hitting the 13% focus barrier the pet seems to have wastes money?

    Quote Originally Posted by tamlin View Post
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    Exp/PEC Trick
    2.155689 Dance
    2.117647 Bow
    2.080000 Roll over
    2.076923 Sit
    1.497006 Greet
    This part is extrememly helpful, thank you. I'd already worked out that Greet was pretty much a waste of time and it's good to know it's a waste of money compared to the others as well. Interesting that it then gets less economical. Implying that the cheapest way to lvl a pet is to use Dance and only when the focus is at 99% (or 100), although the fastest may well still be to use the newest trick.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieWoodell View Post
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    Could it be that only hitting the 13% focus barrier the pet seems to have wastes money?
    To repeat from the initial post:
    Quote Originally Posted by tamlin
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    at 30% Focus, the Sit action gave only 1.9 Experience, while at 100% Focus it gave 5.4 Experience.
    Yes, doing tricks at less than full or at least almost full Focus is indeed the same as burning money.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarieWoodell View Post
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    Implying that the cheapest way to lvl a pet is to use Dance and only when the focus is at 99% (or 100), although the fastest may well still be to use the newest trick.
    Those are indeed my observations and conslusions too.

  4. #4
    Stalker Dan59's Avatar
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    Take in consideration that VU15 pets are so called puny mobs.
    Puny pet need about 400 nutrios to get him to full.
    Future biger pets will be a lot more hungry.

    Even now is significant difference with full energy of old pets.
    And also consumption when prerforming tricks.

    Daikiba stalker need 1600 nutrios to get him to full now for example.

    So i think MA will change this.
    If not cant see acceptable costs to skill up some future big combat pet.
    Rumors say that this chip was used by MOFUlogist Dan Dan Petrov during his specialisation in WTFlogy..

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan59 View Post
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    Puny pet need about 400 nutrios to get him to full.
    [...]
    Daikiba stalker need 1600 nutrios to get him to full now for example.

    So i think MA will change this.
    If not cant see acceptable costs to skill up some future big combat pet.
    It would indeed become insanely costly to skill up larger pets like this. On the other hand, that's how it is for avatars too, and it's what MA have always done - make it exponentially more expensive to reach higher levels. With that in mind, it may be intentional that it should cost 10k PED (<- completely made up number) to skill a Daikiba to level 10. Even if that could be disappointing, at least it would be - sadly enough - consistent.

  6. #6
    Prowler MarieWoodell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan59 View Post
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    Take in consideration that VU15 pets are so called puny mobs.
    Puny pet need about 400 nutrios to get him to full.
    Future biger pets will be a lot more hungry.

    Even now is significant difference with full energy of old pets.
    And also consumption when prerforming tricks.

    Daikiba stalker need 1600 nutrios to get him to full now for example.

    So i think MA will change this.
    If not cant see acceptable costs to skill up some future big combat pet.
    We're also yet to see what the battle side of things will be like and if the pets will gain experience from fighting. It could well be a cheaper way to gain xp. Of course we also don't know exactly what will happen to the losing creature either.

  7. #7
    Marauder Kombinator's Avatar
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    At 13% focus it takes about 400 clicks to level up a daiki and consumes about 5K nutrios.

    Pretty steady as far as different levels go, have not noticed a cost increase yet.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kombinator View Post
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    At 13% focus it takes about 400 clicks to level up a daiki and consumes about 5K nutrios.
    I hope you realize that's the worst way to level up a pet, as you get WAY less Experience per nutrio than you'd get if the Focus was a 100%? I'd estimate you overpay maybe 8 to 10 times compared to "optimal" training conditions.

    Not to mention the training, by this same account, is perhaps 6-7 times as slow.

  9. #9
    Banned Akbar's Avatar
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    Few other datas you can combine with your own...

    Focus :

    under 67-68%, the focus increase by 2% each 30 seconds.
    I noticed an increase by 25 seconds, but this happened only 1 time.
    * I did not bring my pet near the 13%, so the %/time increase "can be" bigger...

    Over 68%, you get variations of 1% or 2% each 30 seconds.

    Over 90%, the reload time per 1% can take far more time like you said Tamlin.

    Else to that, each Bow at 99% gave an XP increase of 1%, (Focus % cost varies between 1 to 7%)
    while I "saw" 1% increase for 3 Dance.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the testing, Akbar.

    For the actual Experience gain from an action (Level.XP is only a rough estimate display representation of the Experience), Dismiss the pet, select Item->Properties and check its Experience value, spawn it, do action, Dismiss, and check Experience again.

    The formula to convert between Level.XP <-> Experience is documented in
    Pet Math - Level vs. Experience .

    Your post however did kick me to add a graph over how Focus regenerates over time to
    Pet Math - Regeneration time, cost and Experience gain. Expect it to be up within a few minutes.

    Thanks.

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