Do you remember when EU was climbing?

Do you remember when you posted an unlimited item for sale, and people actually made bids and offers?

ATM EU would need a huge growth in playerbase, and zero more items dropping, to balance out....

Where is the joy, the anticipation these days?

Maybe im just getting old.

If there werent for resellers then the market would be pretty much dead.. right now mostly resellers bid on items ending at 30-40% of the last sold value, hoping to make few peds on the side.

Yeah too many unlimited items dropping, stop it for 6months and we will see items again going up in prices instead of dropping and dropping and dropping..

And not single category of items is safe.
Clothing... formerly very expensive fashion object are now all most tt junk, as new planet partners brought in bunch of cheap clothing without any drop limits, just look at the price of coats...


Yeah i know we should complain less and adapt with the changing economy.. but knowing every items loses value that fast, makes ppl think twice before buying 50k ped item (even if it is worth every penny atm)


But wait. MA has removed UL items from tt already, maybe they are already removing the UL items from loots?

I remember when i was able to buy armor hunt in it for 6 months and then sell it about the same price i bought it at. Now i buy armor 80% of the market price and cant sell it even for 50% 1 month later.


Long post, but to sum it up. PPL dont bid because ppl know that prices are dropping too fast. Even for most eco setup you cant bid, because maybe tomorrow Toulan will introduce even better setup for 5% of the price of your setup.

whiteknut said:

Long post, but to sum it up. PPL dont bid because ppl know that prices are dropping too fast. Even for most eco setup you cant bid, because maybe tomorrow Toulan will introduce even better setup for 5% of the price of your setup.

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Misconception;

People dont bid or buy those items because back in the day they could actually produce profit by using it, nowadays they just lesser the cost to play;

Why invest in your avatar when there is nothing to gain from it

Yes thats how i feel aswell, sure there are always some top gear beeing moved and some activity. But down on the floor its stone cold.

I mean at first i was happy my 500 ped shortblade was bumped to 2.952 dpp and 51 dps by adding a Melee amp IV for 2k peds.

Now im not so sure that joy will last, seeing the price the overall EU economy is paying for it.

We need more players, and more players eager to actually deposit and spend for entertainment, because thats what this is about, having fun.

PPs made a huge difference. I now got a lot more to choose from. Essentially, the amount of items have quintupled while the playerbase has not. There is no longer any scarcity.

I'm seeing MA reducing the amount of items in game. With the upgrade missions and such, however, I guess it will have other consequences. If everyone would upgrade their ek 2600s there would just be a fourth of them left in game if MA decides to make gold more scarce again.

I'm thinking that they have a lot of balancing to do, and I hope they pull it off. Next step would be to restrict PPs a lot.

I agree with most if not all you already posted.
More players, less or no UL items at least for a while and PP should have a limit or something.
But also the ppl that are already in game, are playing?
idk about your FL but if I take my FL as an example a very small % of 'em are realy playing the game.
Also many are staying offline for long time and then appear again for few days e.t.c.

WhiningSkeptic said:

PPs made a huge difference. I now got a lot more to choose from. Essentially, the amount of items have quintupled while the playerbase has not. There is no longer any scarcity.

I'm seeing MA reducing the amount of items in game. With the upgrade missions and such, however, I guess it will have other consequences. If everyone would upgrade their ek 2600s there would just be a fourth of them left in game if MA decides to make gold more scarce again.

I'm thinking that they have a lot of balancing to do, and I hope they pull it off. Next step would be to restrict PPs a lot.

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Yes upgrades are a path to getting rid of items, problem is the EK-2600 tools are a stupid choice since most people didnt use it anyway, if its a decent end product ( mod ek2600 ) the only result will be even more items that actually give decent stats, and supply will be even greater.... While demand staying low.

I really have no idea what to suggest, perhaps a Item exchange terminal, toss in your LC-100 UL and get 6k of universal ammo, really, no idea how they could handle this mess we are in.

Funny how people always seem to whine about this whilst ignoring one fundamental truth, the game is called


ENTROPIA


It is not even like MA try to hide it, it's in the name, otherwise it would be called


ENTHALPIA

at least that is what I understand the opposite Chemistry term is.

moondog said:

Funny how people always seem to whine about this whilst ignoring one fundamental truth, the game is called


ENTROPIA


It is not even like MA try to hide it, it's in the name, otherwise it would be called


ENTHALPIA

at least that is what I understand the opposite Chemistry term is.

Click to expand...

Yes this is ofcourse a whining thread, not some old player having genuine concerns about the future of our game.

Lets all be quiet instead and sink.

moondog said:

Funny how people always seem to whine about this whilst ignoring one fundamental truth, the game is called


ENTROPIA


It is not even like MA try to hide it, it's in the name, otherwise it would be called


ENTHALPIA

at least that is what I understand the opposite Chemistry term is.

Click to expand...

If I may, an excerpt from Entropia page;

Think Future - Invest in your Avatar!


So what you're saying is that they are str8 up, uncloaked, new world charlatans?

"A charlatan (also called swindler or mountebank) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretense or deception."

Why would we be paying more for the items if no more were dropping? Rarity on its own adds hardly any value if there is no demand.

Why would we even bother depositing and spending what we have if there was no chance of anything of lasting value and usefulness dropping?

I believe EU is climbing right now. Just that increasingly people don't care about making big "investments" in their avatar and especially don't care about bailing out those that did.

remontoire said:

Why would we be paying more for the items if no more were dropping? Rarity on its own adds hardly any value if there is no demand.

Why would we even bother depositing and spending what we have if there was no chance of anything of lasting value and usefulness dropping?

I believe EU is climbing right now. Just that increasingly people don't care about making big "investments" in their avatar and especially don't care about bailing out those that did.

Click to expand...

I agree with this, I am happy to play EU on a set budget which I have done since my second year in game. I am frightened by the prospect of what may happen to any large investment I make. This puts any (UL) gun with half decent DPS out of my budget as well as any armour above ghost / vigi - etc, this is just my choice but I like to think if the whole game goes tits up tomorrow, I am in for no more that about $500, which for the enjoyment I get out of playing, I can live with.

Let's face it any investment in EU is only in something which is basically a set of 1's and 0's, switch the power off tomorrow and we all lose everything

mark up of items are created by demand of the players, back then u put a set of angel out you had multiple ppl willing to bid it up way past +40k peds, now u put a set out and do sb of +0 i promise you'll get many many bids...just because the mark up isnt up to your liking doesnt mean there arent any demand just means your expectations are way to high for current demand.

also it would benefit MA greatly to drop all kinds of ul uber items the more the merrier drive the prices down more ppl can afford to hunt out of their comfort zone and hence create all the def decay extra use of me to get back to mob that's regenning like there's no tomorrow

moondog said:

I agree with this, I am happy to play EU on a set budget which I have done since my second year in game. I am frightened by the prospect of what may happen to any large investment I make. This puts any (UL) gun with half decent DPS out of my budget as well as any armour above ghost / vigi - etc, this is just my choice but I like to think if the whole game goes tits up tomorrow, I am in for no more that about $500, which for the enjoyment I get out of playing, I can live with.

Let's face it any investment in EU is only in something which is basically a set of 1's and 0's, switch the power off tomorrow and we all lose everything

Click to expand...

So is the money on your bank account

ermik said:

Yes thats how i feel aswell, sure there are always some top gear beeing moved and some activity. But down on the floor its stone cold.

I mean at first i was happy my 500 ped shortblade was bumped to 2.952 dpp and 51 dps by adding a Melee amp IV for 2k peds.

Now im not so sure that joy will last, seeing the price the overall EU economy is paying for it.

We need more players, and more players eager to actually deposit and spend for entertainment, because thats what this is about, having fun.

Click to expand...

I will take that blade off your hands for 550 ped. There.. 50 ped gained. Problem solved. But you won`t because you can't buy a sonkra for that price anymore, because people now realise its potential with the melee amps. Some items do rise in value.
The pistols don't sell anymore because of the blades, you got that right. And the old high tt blades don't sell because of the portable repair terminal.
One rule: Don't buy an ul weapon if it costs more than 1500 ped. That's one weekend full of booze with friends. That way you can keep having fun. Its a game after all.

IMO entropia is evolving quite nice, finally decent mid gear weapons available at decent rates.

UL Item Prices are dropping because finally the mark-up on L decent gear is dropping and the variety is finally at an acceptable range.

2 years ago any 50 dmg/sec weapon were 300-450 tt ped at 180% mark-up at least, now tt is around 100 - 150 and 130% markup + better durability

High Markup was made by players look at UL HL8 and remember when it dropped first time(markup was tt+45k or something)

Look at the Piron weapons line and they outclass most of older weapons, and that is good ! this game needs to move forward or it will die with the actual player base.

Never forget ... MA guarantees only TT value ... the markup is your loss(or gain if you sell)

Why is UL armor hard to sell these days and downing of MU on it that fast?

The example angel is very good.

UL set durabillity 4000
L set durabillity 14000

The L set got extremely better eco, and its relativ cheap, so why pay lets say +7k (+1000/part) for an UL set that is less eco when there is enough L available.
Beside that, there is a lot other L armor relativ cheap that offer same or even better protection + a bonus (buff) if you got the full set.

In old times, there was no L at all and angel was considered rar. If one part dropped every 2-3 month it was a lot drops. Many players farmed the mobs that where known to drop angel parts several month and didn´t get a single part. That created the high markups people where willing to pay for that set.

Today its realy easy to get a set L that offers same protection at way better durabillity (eco).
No more reason to pay huge markups on UL versions.
What advantages have uL sets vs L sets. The only thing is its always available, you don´t need to browse auctions.
Is it cheaper than L armors?
No it isn´t. Due to low durability the costs are higher, due to more and more L armors introduced the markup on L going down aswell, to a ponit where paying markup for L regularly is still better eco than wearing old style UL.

GoNi said:

Why is UL armor hard to sell these days and downing of MU on it that fast?

The example angel is very good.

UL set durabillity 4000
L set durabillity 14000

The L set got extremely better eco, and its relativ cheap, so why pay lets say +7k (+1000/part) for an UL set that is less eco when there is enough L available.
Beside that, there is a lot other L armor relativ cheap that offer same or even better protection + a bonus (buff) if you got the full set.

In old times, there was no L at all and angel was considered rar. If one part dropped every 2-3 month it was a lot drops. Many players farmed the mobs that where known to drop angel parts several month and didn´t get a single part. That created the high markups people where willing to pay for that set.

Today its realy easy to get a set L that offers same protection at way better durabillity (eco).
No more reason to pay huge markups on UL versions.
What advantages have uL sets vs L sets. The only thing is its always available, you don´t need to browse auctions.
Is it cheaper than L armors?
No it isn´t. Due to low durability the costs are higher, due to more and more L armors introduced the markup on L going down aswell, to a ponit where paying markup for L regularly is still better eco than wearing old style UL.

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L armor maybe, if you talk about Jaguar or Tiger.

But look for higher level sets and L completely looses it's viability for any decent hunter.

Go and check average MU on Angel pieces I bet it's 150%+. Now if you hunt on regular basis mobs that do hit the armor? And I am not talking about limited supply of high end L armors to keep your set going and also the fact the average MU is probably higher then 150%

So yeah, high-end L armor is a good viability for occasional hunter, or team hunter. But for a regular hunter? Never!


And in general, every UNL item somehow pays for itself. But you must play the game.
With every single item you can calculate how much peds you are saving compared to L and for how long you need to use the item in order for it to pay itself.

I paid well over 20k for my weapon, and looking roughly into my spread sheets I have more then 5k back already
The same goes for FAP, armor etc.. (Of course with Armor having the pay time slowest)

I proposed MA long time ago "buying back" items which are not fit to new L economy. There is few ways MA can do this painlessly for players.

1. Not introducing into system uber unL items from expired banned acounts in any form ( auctions etc. )
2. Not rewarding uber unL items in events (at least not so much and no "oldschool" items - unL SIB midle class will be ok as they will become new uber items with time
3. Introducing system that will allow changing uber items into even more uber by consuming bigger number of items ( for example "refining" 2x ImpFap into one Mod Fap - one very uber item inflict less dmg to L economy than few bit worse ). That imply ofc 100 % sucess of process.
4. Proposing player buying back those items for pure peds or new CLD's (maybe with fixed dividende ). MA can make any amount of peds for free liek any central bank. It will cause inflation but on market with constant drop of prices is not that bad as might apear and more over any ATH system is spiting has same effect.

Using all above methods will allow MA to refresh and stabilise market in less than year. I also bet anyone no mater how hard is used to unL items would change to L ones only if it will be offered better loot in exchange.

PW3CKA said:

L armor maybe, if you talk about Jaguar or Tiger.

But look for higher level sets and L completely looses it's viability for any decent hunter.

Go and check average MU on Angel pieces I bet it's 150%+. Now if you hunt on regular basis mobs that do hit the armor? And I am not talking about limited supply of high end L armors to keep your set going and also the fact the average MU is probably higher then 150%

So yeah, high-end L armor is a good viability for occasional hunter, or team hunter. But for a regular hunter? Never!


And in general, every UNL item somehow pays for itself. But you must play the game.
With every single item you can calculate how much peds you are saving compared to L and for how long you need to use the item in order for it to pay itself.

I paid well over 20k for my weapon, and looking roughly into my spread sheets I have more then 5k back already
The same goes for FAP, armor etc.. (Of course with Armor having the pay time slowest)

Click to expand...

Some fixed number of uber gear may stay in game to not interfere much with L economy, but it has to be fixed number and known to playerbase.

For example MA has to officialy announce that from now on there are 10 mod faps, 20 imp faps, 10 imk2, 20 mod mercs etc. ingame and there will never be new drop of those things again on any planet.

That will allow player base to set new stable value on those items. Goal of owning one of those uber items will still be there. L replacements are already here.

L economy is way easier managable even for not an expert and changin team ( modell is ready so even dumbass can follow it )

I will believe EU to be climbing when Mindark re-introduces the player counter, remember the 1 million registered accounts any1? So until Mindark posts something positive about new player registration or retention rate, there is no good news. For how many years have they been talking about marketing? Yet I have not seen 1 report on the "success". Even the annual reports are vague on that subject. IF there had been any positive trend I´m sure that they would have been spun-off multiple times by that PR company with its so called important PR awards (takes a long time to find the reference on the net). Until then might as well grind a little troxies

ps. not whining, just simple straightforward facts.

shoti said:

Some fixed number of uber gear may stay in game to not interfere much with L economy, but it has to be fixed number and known to playerbase.

For example MA has to officialy announce that from now on there are 10 mod faps, 20 imp faps, 10 imk2, 20 mod mercs etc. ingame and there will never be new drop of those things again on any planet.

That will allow player base to set new stable value on those items. Goal of owning one of those uber items will still be there. L replacements are already here.

L economy is way easier managable even for not an expert and changin team ( modell is ready so even dumbass can follow it )

Click to expand...

Impossible to do that with actual player base.
Because we had plenty of negative experience.
Just think on scanergate.
1. drop rain of items wich shud not drop in loot - mentor edition items.
2. masive drop in loot of newer lootable and only craftablče ES500 wich BPs were removed 8 years a go - so unique or rare at least.
3. change in eviroment and in mode how one item work without changing stats - now you have small chance to gain skill every 5 minits or so with your scaner.

Now think if they apply such changes on uber gear one day.
They can announce officialy many things but confidence and trust is what is nowdays.
For example they could decide to fix "non existing bug" and change level requrements for mod fap to 102 to max it at 110 to be equal with crafted one like Vivo Survivor (L). (L)oool.
Or they cud decide that mod merc can shoot every 5 minutes and even if you kill a mob you do not gain loot just to be equal with ES500. (L)oool.

Goal of investing and owning one of those uber items is linked with wery high risks.
And EU as RCE shud have golas and incentives for long term investnents and not just short terms (L).
In the end is not (L) game with lifespan about year but is virtual word where one shud live with his avatar for decades.
They deserved wery questionable confidence and trust.

Dan59 said:

Impossible to do that with actual player base.
Because we had plenty of negative experience.
Just think on scanergate.
1. drop rain of items wich shud not drop in loot - mentor edition items.
2. masive drop in loot of newer lootable and only craftablče ES500 wich BPs were removed 8 years a go - so unique or rare at least.
3. change in eviroment and in mode how one item work without changing stats - now you have small chance to gain skill every 5 minits or so with your scaner.

Now think if they apply such changes on uber gear one day.
They can announce officialy many things but confidence and trust is what is nowdays.
For example they could decide to fix "non existing bug" and change level requrements for mod fap to 102 to max it at 110 to be equal with crafted one like Vivo Survivor (L). (L)oool.
Or they cud decide that mod merc can shoot every 5 minutes and even if you kill a mob you do not gain loot just to be equal with ES500. (L)oool.

Goal of investing and owning one of those uber items is linked with wery high risks.
And EU as RCE shud have golas and incentives for long term investnents and not just short terms (L).
In the end is not (L) game with lifespan about year but is virtual word where one shud live with his avatar for decades.
They deserved wery questionable confidence and trust.

Click to expand...

This is some black scenario. Ofcourse everybody knows that scanergate was obvious..well gate . Ma "fixed" lot item in past like famous axe 1x0. But we don't disqusing all time MA mistakes here, but what may be done with current state and resources. Stats changing are bad, stealing ppl their unlimited precious items or thrashing their MU overnight is even worse.

Post above one u quoted from me i mentioned few ways it will be doable without making anyone unhappy, and uber gear owners even more confident into MA.

PW3CKA said:

L armor maybe, if you talk about Jaguar or Tiger.

But look for higher level sets and L completely looses it's viability for any decent hunter.

Go and check average MU on Angel pieces I bet it's 150%+. Now if you hunt on regular basis mobs that do hit the armor? And I am not talking about limited supply of high end L armors to keep your set going and also the fact the average MU is probably higher then 150%

So yeah, high-end L armor is a good viability for occasional hunter, or team hunter. But for a regular hunter? Never!

Click to expand...

So either the availability of those L armors (wepons, faps, ...) has to go up or it needs to be accepted that EU, or at the very least nothing but low levels of game play will continue to suffer and contract. And as a result the prices of the so called high level gear will also contract.

shoti said:

Some fixed number of uber gear may stay in game to not interfere much with L economy, but it has to be fixed number and known to playerbase.

For example MA has to officialy announce that from now on there are 10 mod faps, 20 imp faps, 10 imk2, 20 mod mercs etc. ingame and there will never be new drop of those things again on any planet.

That will allow player base to set new stable value on those items. Goal of owning one of those uber items will still be there. L replacements are already here.

L economy is way easier managable even for not an expert and changin team ( modell is ready so even dumbass can follow it )

Click to expand...

Bullshit. A fixed number of items will not get you even a single extra buyer compared to now, and will in no way let you keep prices stable. You presume that there would always be a fixed amount of people willing to invest and cover for people leaving (for whatever reason), and this simply is not true.

ermik said:

Do you remember when you posted an unlimited item for sale, and people actually made bids and offers?

ATM EU would need a huge growth in playerbase, and zero more items dropping, to balance out....

Where is the joy, the anticipation these days?

Maybe im just getting old.

Click to expand...

What do you mean "balance out"? Balance to what, the peak it once had? Or how it was eleven years ago?

ermik said:

Do you remember when you posted an unlimited item for sale, and people actually made bids and offers?

ATM EU would need a huge growth in playerbase, and zero more items dropping, to balance out....

Where is the joy, the anticipation these days?

Maybe im just getting old.

Click to expand...

I remember when I got a 20k HOF from a thorifoid. Bulk in Thyroid oil. Only item was Odenfield Ventrticle system [Stackable - lootable in space].

By itself It wasn't enough for collateral for resurrection chip to unlock Death speak. (I managed to get the additional 15k needed by putting almost Everything of value in a bank). In auction, there was a bidwar for a pretty normal ML35 (no tier system at the time) ending at 27k. The reason I had been hunring had not been fullfilled - the 20k HOF wasn't enough to buy a tango. Items like wormhole chips were seen far between in auction. For melee, the only reasonable weapon was swords like Katsuichi Determination.

For a mid-level player, there was pretty much nothing of interest in the auction that was a "keeper". I bought a set of Infiltrator(L), hunting Trooper10 hoping to loot repairable sulfury (it later dropped within radar range from me to someone else), otherwise SIB swords were aroudn 150% or so. One way the PEDs Went was mindforce skilling, using what I could get (Electric V attack chip and Heal chip V).

As for the ES500 market value: While I had the PEDs, I can't recall any ES500 in auction. I saw one or two about the first years I played . then there was one year there only was one ES400. I'd say the ES500 market was pretty much non-existant. As for the value of the skills gained from it, I got the feeling the existing ES500 was passed around, outside the auction market, so the people who were gaining skills from them were higher than the actual number of ES500:s. Also I got the feeling a big part of the peopel who were skilling with ES500 were using methods that was "not condoned" by MA (at the time there was no auto-use function, and upon direct question if we were allowed to use so called autoclickers the answer was pretty much a straight "no") - so it was mainly those who stretched the rules a bit who gained advantage of it.

MA could have fixed the solution by dropping (L) scanners, giving decent skills, but.... well they didn't.

whiteknut said:

If there werent for resellers then the market would be pretty much dead.. right now mostly resellers bid on items ending at 30-40% of the last sold value, hoping to make few peds on the side.

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The market price for heal chip XI(L) is kept up by the resellers.

Yesterday one of those (for me a consumable - not an investment thing) was on auction, I placed my last bid at 200%, and at the end a known reseller with (as far as I know) no skills got it. It's probably reposted today at 240% or so as that's the market price shows what it "should be Worth".

whiteknut said:

Clothing... formerly very expensive fashion object are now all most tt junk, as new planet partners brought in bunch of cheap clothing without any drop limits, just look at the price of coats...

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Well, one less market for a "Girl" who used to stand next to auctioneer in New Oxford bank.

One reason clothes have fallen in value could be that the years with casino economy has taxed the mid-level players pretty well (giving the more business savage avatars the possibility for six digit withdrawals). If you Think of it it's Money that has gone from normal players, and out of the game.

whiteknut said:

Clothing... formerly very expensive fashion object are now all most tt junk, as new planet partners brought in bunch of cheap clothing without any drop limits, just look at the price of coats...

Click to expand...

If you're referring to the Elder Coat, they've changed the BP to use redulite, so you'll see the MU going back up soon (unless ofc you belong to WSS).

There are some very positive aspects to the toulan clothing options that IMO are worth a little loss in MU of old clothes. Crafted clothing will always be at risk of competition (just like IRL fashions). If you want something unique, get a unique looted or event item that will never drop anymore, though even that doesn't guarantee it'll maintain it's MU.

IRL we don't expect all investments to maintain their precise value indefinitely, why should we expect them to in game?

As for prices, I think the price of most UL guns and faps are too high anyway, they should come down.

Konve said:

What do you mean "balance out"? Balance to what, the peak it once had? Or how it was eleven years ago?

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I honestly dont know.

bring back the big loots!! maybe not on 10k argo young scale..

The biggest problem isnt really the lower markup on things. Its the mindset continously dropping prices create.

Why buy today when its cheaper tomorrow?

Endless loop down.