Do you remember when EU was climbing?

Bullshit. A fixed number of items will not get you even a single extra buyer compared to now, and will in no way let you keep prices stable. You presume that there would always be a fixed amount of people willing to invest and cover for people leaving (for whatever reason), and this simply is not true.

Totally agree!
I remember a statement from Marco back the days he was comunity manager: Every existing item got a chance to drop!

Back that days I believed it, but it is definately not true.
If it would be that way, there would have drops of MM, IMKII and MF.
Only drops of this UBER gear I have seen since I started was those dropped in SGA event. Not befor never after that.
Even if it don´t drop at all, but there is one a year as event reward (f.e. Mayham or any other big event), it would be fair for those players who did start today or past few years. BTW, during such events its very likely that exactly those players that already got the get the additional gear.
Since I started MA did everything to cover those players investments, and didn´t care about new players, that want nice things, too.

I said it already years ago!
Every uL item no matter what, has to go down in markup.
Why?
Because more of it will drop, higher supply less MU.
What is fact, nothing of that with really high markup drops nor can it be obtained by participating big events.
So what reason for "new" (5 year old player) to continue playing if best items ingame can´t be found.
Once someone noticed that there is absolutely no chance of getting anything UBER (eco) he very likely will quit.

How will you get new players into game and stay ingame, if top gear isn´t available exept for those that already got it, and sit on it for 10 years now.

IMHO all those "investors" paid way to much. They decided to do that to have an advantage over others not willing or not in the position to make such huge investments. Its their risk they took.
But definately not correct that MA protects those high risk investments by stopping to drop that items.

Everything else went down MU extremly, why UBER gear only a little. Because MA protects it, and thats not fair.

I don´t complain about my own markup losses, I did know it will happen.
Example:
Bought a Adj. Embra C1 (uL) when it was at +2k PED, the high peak was +2.5k, now its down to +400
do I complain? No I don´t I did know this will happen, and at the time I bought that sword it was that worth to me. Still use it, why not.

What I see is that those investing in MM IMKII and MF can be confident that MU never will go down, because MA protects them. MA protects nobody else but a handful old stylers. I am sure some of them depoed way less than what I deposited, and this will not change. They looted the money makers pre gold, no chance for anybody else to get such a money maker. If it would still drop and become standard over time, it wouldn´t be moneymaker anymore.

Why not kill it out completely, over time?
Not remove it or replace it with L, no thats not doable and it would be unfair against the owners. They paid for that item with that stats, so let them keep that item with that stats.
There is also other option:
MF got a heal rate of 160/pec - lets get some L FAPs over time that offer way better eco and make a heal rate of 160/pec a new standard (Mod FAP wouldn´t be that super special moneymaker anymore)
MM got 3 DMG/pec - well slowely move standarts of new L items to 4-5 DMG/pec
Do this changes slowly, very slowly and step by step but do it.
This would give confidence to new players that EU will improve and grow and you don´t need to invest 20k $ to get any decent item.
MU of UBER gear will go down more and more. And at some point it will not be UBER anymore, just standart, and years later it wouldn´t be even standart, just another junk TT food.
The cheaper it gets the more are willing to buy it. Its up to the owners at what point they sell.
Its possible to sell now at 200k, or wait another year making money, but see MU goes down to 150k.
Sell at 150k or wait another year still making money, but less than befor, dicovering that markup still goes down to 100k.
Well sell at 100k or continue using it.
Sooner or later it will be outdated, old style item nobody wants it any longer (TT Food).
The fate of every item existing ingame, must be TT food sooner or later.
EU needs to envolve.
Bigger stronger mobs, some with even higher regen rate than actual fast regen mobs.
Weapons have to evolve, more DMG/s (low eco chain), more DMG/pec (eco chain).
FAPs have to evolve, more heal/sec, others more heal/pec.

If it would be that way, it wouldn´t matter when you started with EU. You just would grow with EU at your level.
Newer players will reach the levels where old mod fap is a really good FAP, while old style players (extremly high skilled ones), will say damn ModFAP not enough heal/s to do whatever UBER mob. Eco hunters will say, damn ModFAP isn´t best eco available, prefer FAP(whatever) at 180 heal/pec. Still an option for those that can´t afford the new eco ones or the fast ones.

Such a system (constantly growing), would need that we get items that need higher levels above 100 even above 200.
Such a system would require forms of skilling above LVL100 that don´t take 1 year/lvl at acceptable cost, not chipping in for 10kish $ amounts. (skill rewards from missions!). Well who wants that still could do it.
It would also require that lootable PvP get redesigned, with LVL restrictions.
Why, well LVL200 Laser Gunnner, with a gun at his level, very likely 400ish HP (maybe way more) vs LVL60 Lasergunner ~150 HP, need to fight? No, its just bang dead low level.

PvP level restrictions nothing new in MMO scene, most other MMOs got that already!

Why do I suggest doing it that way?
Because RL works that way!
Do you still use your old C64 (30 years old)
Do you still use your old IBM 8086 (20 years old)
Do you still use your old 80386 AT (15 years old)
Do you still use your old Pentium2

or do you use this damn new Quad prozessors?

World is growing, technic advances, old standarts get outdated, old UBER things get down to standards.
Thats how world works, thats how EU should work too, as it is a virtual world.

And can´t care less if someone paid 5000$ for a brand new Pentium3 prozessor 10 years back, that got 0.00 value today. Same counts for 10 year old ModFAP and ModMerc.


Damn long post:cool:

Now start the flame ;)
 
Unbalanced items like mod fap shouldn't be used as models of how the economy is working. They shouldn't even exist in the game.
 
Id like to divide the matter into passive: armour, utility and faps; and active: Weapons/mining tools. All I write is just my opinions of course :D



Armour

Its fine the way it is really. Worse decay for UL, better for limited. Its nicely balanced in a really odd way. Owning UL has some benefits long term but also hurt eco.

Faps

All new items introduced in this field should be limited.

Utility

All new items introduced in this field should be limited.

Weapons
1 - Thanks to the enhancer system I dont really see a need to remove all unlimited weapons anymore, which was my opinion before. Im not of the opinion more should be added though.

2 - If Mindark really need to add more restrict them to events held by each planet owner. These weapons shouldnt be high level either.

3 - Or make all future UL items "non-sib". Then you really get incentive to skill.



Mining finders/excavators

The demand might be low but a unlimited drop once in a while wouldnt kill the market I believe. As long no more unlimited mining amps are found its all good imo. So, throw in very few examples of unlimited finders, with a little worse eco. Dont flood...
 
Unbalanced items like mod fap shouldn't be used as models of how the economy is working. They shouldn't even exist in the game.


Nevermind mod faps.. those cloaks shouldn't be either.
 
In old times if a guy trapped mob would be perm Ban!

Travis stop the cheat! Vanguards are not mobs for U!
 
In old times if a guy trapped mob would be perm Ban!

Travis stop the cheat! Vanguards are not mobs for U!

This. I purposely bought armor that works wonders against this mob, and spent a pretty penny for it. On top of that, the decay hurts. I have yet to uber on them, but this player has done it multiple times... it really grinds my gears.

I'd also like to add that these new type of items with weird stats devalue old items which hurts our investments, especially if more and more drop. I like how the old item system was.
 
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In old times if a guy trapped mob would be perm Ban!

Travis stop the cheat! Vanguards are not mobs for U!

Go video record these people and make it known... send to MA. I know a soc leader in this game that has been caught doing it as well. But no videos to post anywhere to raise awareness.
 
I agree for counting registered and online players in laucher!!!!!
that will be great, to remove the negative feeling and thoughts in some of us
like....... "I'm a lonely idiot that login in empty MMO to spend my money now?" :laugh:
 
I agree for counting registered and online players in laucher!!!!!
that will be great, to remove the negative feeling and thoughts in some of us
like....... "I'm a lonely idiot that login in empty MMO to spend my money now?" :laugh:

there was a reason for taking the number of registered accounts away, that reason is still there. you will need to ask MA about the reason.
 
there was a reason for taking the number of registered accounts away, that reason is still there. you will need to ask MA about the reason.

we all know that 690 players online / 3498 active accounts ( logged at leats once last 6 months ) visible in client loader will be badly for MA creditors and therefore tehy will never show that. At least as long as WoW and WoT screaming in their client loader about hundreds thoudands online any moment and active accounts in millions.



@GoNi

All I was proposing with fixed and known amount of uber gear was to apply when in major usage will be L items. I never said those L item had to be worse. Ofc in well prospering L economy those uber unL ancient non SIB goddies will be almost impossible to get - only via trade !
 
I agree for counting registered and online players in laucher!!!!!
that will be great, to remove the negative feeling and thoughts in some of us
like....... "I'm a lonely idiot that login in empty MMO to spend my money now?" :laugh:

This negativ feeling can´t go away!
Look at crafting
Impossible to fill all your books, some BPs just don´t drop anymore.
Why continue crafting if its impossible to get all BPs that are listed in the regular books?
Why accepting that some crafters got all the good BPs and noone else ever gets a chance of seeing this BPs in a loot window. You can´t buy it at auction, doesn´t drop to anyone!
How should someone trust into EU if there is not equal chance for everyone to loot everything available ingame?
Why ?
Why stop dropping old style gear.
Why stopping to drop UBER gear.
I understand that some things are Unique and surely stay unique.
Well this things got Unique in their names:
Unique Terminator
Unique Ram Purifier
Unique Legend War Axe
This items are named unique and have been event rewards, fair enough to keep this unique.

Everything else should have a chance to drop!
But thats not reallity in EU, and thats why many players left. And thats why new players of today very likely quit sooner or later. Thats why I considered quiting more than once!

Why am I back? Well EU still pioneer of RCE and still got so huge potential.
I am a believer in the concept, but what MA does with it. FAIL
Still got hope that at some point they will listen, and start to let EU evolving and growing, without protectionism.
 
Do you remember when you posted an unlimited item for sale, and people actually made bids and offers?

ATM EU would need a huge growth in playerbase, and zero more items dropping, to balance out....

Where is the joy, the anticipation these days?

Maybe im just getting old.

I'm not sure that even a significant increase in players, would provide an improved market for unlimited gear. First you would have to prove without doubt that an item would provide an advantage, and not compare "under the hood" rules of 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago.

Then there's the change of stats trust issue to consider into that equation, and the unregulated PP introductions that do not consider the impact on the wider economy. Each planet partner would cry for the same rights as the other planets, compounding the issue.

The more I think about EU, it's not about what's good for you, it's about survival. The game must breath at all costs, and if that that means players chase it and it generate income then that is considered success whatever detrimental impact the game may suffer.

All that said, there's a ton of cash floating in EU, I dumped all my deeds about a month ago in Compet and Ark. I had no problem shifting around $8000 of deeds most on auction. I sold them not out of lack of belief, but because owning them didn't provide the happiness void I was looking for replacing hunting with investing.

So what EU will become in a few years is millions of dollars of zero TT deeds, plus a game run exclusively on limited, with the plan I guess that limited will satisfy income for deeds. That provides a platform with a majority of the risk placed on the player, and hopefully a more stable economy that is easier to manipulate and control players ped values.

The problem with that developing ideology, is that it has and will continue to impact on those that have been around the longest, and not matter in the slightest to new players. The downside is that it's the long term players with expensive equipment that have the most invested to stick around. So MA hope to hook the new players on deed ownership and have openly admitted that further deed issues is the way forward.

So you have to ask yourself if this is the game you are prepared to accept, and if so go and enjoy yourself. I'm not quite sure what will happen when the EU the rip-off called "The Repopulation" finally opens to the masses, but whilst MA continues to shift new deed issues their future is secure whist players continue to buy into that dream.

Above all remember that it is just a game. Good luck out there and HOF it up.

Rick
 
So you have to ask yourself if this is the game you are prepared to accept, and if so go and enjoy yourself. I'm not quite sure what will happen when the EU the rip-off called "The Repopulation" finally opens to the masses, but whilst MA continues to shift new deed issues their future is secure whist players continue to buy into that dream.

Well, The Repopulation isn't an RCE game. It has a cash-shop that offers account perks and cosmetic items. I don't this will have much affect on EU, given the fact that EU is still the only true, functioning RCE game.
 
Well, The Repopulation isn't an RCE game. It has a cash-shop that offers account perks and cosmetic items. I don't this will have much affect on EU, given the fact that EU is still the only true, functioning RCE game.

Hey Rave hope you're doing ok.

I have given that some thought. let's say they don't go RCE, and therefore you can skill as much as you like for a fee let's say it's $20 a month (who knows). Then who gives a shit about RCE if you can lose that in 20 mins in EU.

Point is it's an almost copy competitor for EU game play, with some of the vids looking pretty slick indeed. So it has the potential for players to move and still feel at home for game play. Scary indeed.

That said there's nothing like competition, for companies to evolve and improve. So maybe it might be good for EU.

Rick
 
From what I see, there aren't many smart people employed at MA, and the employees that they have - are blatantly slandering real players on this forum, who are simply warning them of their wrong-doings.

Also (confirmed by many avatars) they are even going so far, that they nerf these players loot returns (possibility of high multipliers), which ofcorse drives those players away from the game - but not from the forum, which is even a higher degree of a fuck-up from MA's staff..

Let the slander begin, MA hidden avatars :wtg:
 
From what I see, there aren't many smart people employed at MA, and the employees that they have - are blatantly slandering real players on this forum, who are simply warning them of their wrong-doings.

Also (confirmed by many avatars) they are even going so far, that they nerf these players loot returns (possibility of high multipliers), which ofcorse drives those players away from the game - but not from the forum, which is even a higher degree of a fuck-up from MA's staff..

Let the slander begin, MA hidden avatars :wtg:

You on Drugs again TONIGHT?
 
You on Drugs again TONIGHT?

Already at the office? Isn't it too early guys, take another cup of coffee and a smoke before you start slandering, as thats the best you guys know how to do..

p.s.: I don't use drugs:wise:
 
Well, The Repopulation isn't an RCE game. It has a cash-shop that offers account perks and cosmetic items. I don't this will have much affect on EU, given the fact that EU is still the only true, functioning RCE game.

Exactly that, and what I like most at EU is the RCE concept.

There are lots other MMOs that provide much more gameplay, content, fun, nice comunity aso for a small monthly fee or even free to play (with some micropayment items).

I have tested lots of that other games during my break from EU, have played some others befor I learned about EU, too. There is not much that are really good on the long run. Skilling is way to easy. Average age of the playerbase is often somewhere around 12-15, damn this kids have no clue what RL is. Not the games I want to be in. And I discovered that at some point this other games became very boring, when you are at TOP skill can do everything possible. Already did that and again and again and again. Not much fun, becoming an UBER in less than a month.

Now I am back, not because EU is damn good compared to others, its just because its an RCE what I see as a challange to survive in it without paying insane amounts of real cash. I play on a small budget and its fun.
I don´t need to be able to kill a Mulciber or any other of this UBER Mobs to have fun.
Even if I would have the gear and skills to do it, I am not sure that I want it, as cost to kill is high and a few kills can be a few bad loots, what would mean a huge loss at my low budget.
Everything here goes slow or at high cost. Its challanging, to play at low budget and still see some progress in gear and skills.
 
One rule: Don't buy an ul weapon if it costs more than 1500 ped. That's one weekend full of booze with friends. That way you can keep having fun. Its a game after all.

I just love that sentance !! +rep :D

This negativ feeling can´t go away!
Look at crafting
Impossible to fill all your books, some BPs just don´t drop anymore.
Why continue crafting if its impossible to get all BPs that are listed in the regular books?
Why accepting that some crafters got all the good BPs and noone else ever gets a chance of seeing this BPs in a loot window. You can´t buy it at auction, doesn´t drop to anyone!
How should someone trust into EU if there is not equal chance for everyone to loot everything available ingame?
Why ?

Personally i would like to see Entropia to have the need of more cooperation between crafters (like my favorite mmo Star Wars Galaxies). You could only pick one of some paths in crafting, then rely on other crafters to make the base-component you need. Would build stronger socities that works together more.

I like that there can be different goals for different players. Not like many other games where there are 5 best gear setups, and nothing else matters. Diversity is key.
 
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Not really sure what there is to anticipate anymore. Tonnes of oil? An enormous pile of shrapnel? Wow, more laser cells!

Virtually no skillgain unless using the most costly equipment? Wow you might even never get to compete in pvp because skills got nerfed so those tough hp people would never be met in skill without depositing $1000s to chip there.

No more hunting day and night losing $20-50 a month to get there, now $20 an hour loss for 10% of the skill of using an outbacko in the old days.

So much to anticipate!

It used to be nice to anticipate an uber loot, something that could not only offer the benefit of selling for a high price, but something that you could keep and cherish! What's the hope now? That you might get a high MU throwaway item (even if it's used or sold it still will end up in the trash when it breaks), but that's about it. It's all dry and dull, nothing shiny and awesome.

The new loot changes are a step in the right direction (towards the old days). Where mobs only dropped a certain kind of hide/wool/other things. Less homogenous :)

I don't see what's wrong with dropping all the old ULs still, like Sollomate Aggression, M2875, MKII, FF4400M etc. (L) already beat them all in dmg/pec&sec*; so they'll be TT trash, so what? At least it's more interesting to look at and maybe even play about with :p

* Maybe not all maxed but let's be fair with the new skill system no one is maxing a level 100 within the next 10 years without serious chipping.
 
lets do a game for example I started playing this game regulary from feb 2009 till at the end of 2011 and I enjoyed it, ok I did some breaks between those years but nothing bigger than 2 months, ok so between those years u guys go look at uberloots section and see those loots, thats what this game all needs, and loook how many they were. so my playtime is from page 150 to 35 in uberloots and u clearly see why.....

look I picked for example page 89, so in 4 days it fill the 89 page, now look the last page on uberloots, in current system, in 2 months we got as many as that 89 page but not even as big ones... so guys this game, the people who started playing and actually enjoing this game played because of those uberloots or big hofs, not because what we get now.
 
remember the old days

For me its simple.
I spend my money on stuff thats fun.
Used to play PE alot.
Today im not spending time or money on PE...

As it is now player base will never grow.
Lot of other games thats much more fun.
Sorry but thats the simple truth...
 
Retention is big, not many join, and those who join don't stay long, veterans leave.

Main Resons :
1. High player taxation
2. Lost of confidenec of old players into game/system
3. New players have problem to gain trust in game/system due to bad PR MA get out of old players


Possible Solvings for MA :
1. Lowering traxation by increasing No. of participants bringing fluence into EU economy
2. Money and trust is all MA need to solve all problem, but trust is more important ( without it there will be no money from players )
3. Regain trust of old and new players by official disclosure about game mechanics ( how armor, gun crafting, mining,loot works etc.)
 
i wonder though, is it much difference now from before. Most of the arguments could be read many years back aswell.
 
....given the fact that EU is still the only true, functioning RCE game.


yes it is one of a kind and I don't think there is going to be another one in the future.
(that's why I'm here and I will stay as far this world exist)
 
i wonder though, is it much difference now from before. Most of the arguments could be read many years back aswell.

Not true, Entropia Pioneers* is dead and that's where the community was :) I was shocked to see it gone! It was quite positive.

*forum :p
 
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Not true, Entropia Pioneers is dead and that's where the community was :) I was shocked to see it gone! It was quite positive.

Yeah i really miss my old Soc's too: Project Asylum Corp, and before that Black Legion.
But new exists, and will come, but it wont be as before i think, when a society was almost like a 2nd family.
But the big question is: Do Entropia still have a future, i belive so, even after reading http://www.mindark.com/investor-relations/financial-reports/documents/ANNUAL_REPORT_MindArk_2013.pdf
 
What is needed most is the RL economic downtime to end, and some prosperity returning. People with more to spend, will actually have money left after buying bread and butter and may be more willing to spend money on a game.
 
MindArk's biggest stuff up has been lack of economic understanding. Few dare invest money like they did years ago due the fact MA doesn't protect the value of items.

Example 1. H-DNA killed the Resurrection Chip 24000Ped to worthless overnight
Example 2. Black paint, worth 10Ped per can in 2009, since cheap alternatives give similar look, its worth 2Ped per can
Example 3. ES500 Scanners worth 7000Ped, killed by MindArk scrapping auto skilling with scanning and dropping way to many and not correcting the mistake.
Example 4. Players invest in Tiering when you risked losing the item, tiered items had value, then overnight MA removed the risk and players lost money. Lost items never recovered.
Example 5. Players invested 1000s of Ped in hangars, eventually given a ship, but a hangar that doesn't do anything.
Example 6. Land areas no longer worth 100-200Kped because CLDs generate more income without effort. LA owners cant sell LA for what they paid.
Example 7. Crafting chance of success has no bearing on skill level. Everything is 30% success regardless of if you have maxed the BP, on quantity and it has a 95% success rate.
Example 8. Veteran players are not recognised or rewarded for their loyalty.

Would I buy a Mod Merc or a Mod FAP...never. I cant guarantee MA wont release a Limited version next week.

The simple rule of success in economics is confidence. If people have confidence in a products value they will spend money and invest.
 
Example 6 is false. It is what you do with it. Clds will outperform inactive and passive land owners.

Example 7 is half true. It's not 30% but success rate of the bp is near and full success however the statistic display only gives full success (I've said this multiple times).

The rest I can agree with whole or in part. I would add that girts situation is troubling. I'm glad I have high faith in arkadia. Calypso ' action and concept of balancing is troubling.
 
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