Do you remember when EU was climbing?

MindArk's biggest stuff up has been lack of economic understanding. Few dare invest money like they did years ago due the fact MA doesn't protect the value of items.

Example 1. H-DNA killed the Resurrection Chip 24000Ped to worthless overnight
Example 2. Black paint, worth 10Ped per can in 2009, since cheap alternatives give similar look, its worth 2Ped per can
Example 3. ES500 Scanners worth 7000Ped, killed by MindArk scrapping auto skilling with scanning and dropping way to many and not correcting the mistake.
Example 4. Players invest in Tiering when you risked losing the item, tiered items had value, then overnight MA removed the risk and players lost money. Lost items never recovered.
Example 5. Players invested 1000s of Ped in hangars, eventually given a ship, but a hangar that doesn't do anything.
Example 6. Land areas no longer worth 100-200Kped because CLDs generate more income without effort. LA owners cant sell LA for what they paid.
Example 7. Crafting chance of success has no bearing on skill level. Everything is 30% success regardless of if you have maxed the BP, on quantity and it has a 95% success rate.
Example 8. Veteran players are not recognised or rewarded for their loyalty.

Would I buy a Mod Merc or a Mod FAP...never. I cant guarantee MA wont release a Limited version next week.

The simple rule of success in economics is confidence. If people have confidence in a products value they will spend money and invest.


What you want, do I call protectionism, and protectionism hurts every economy.

The value of resurection chip would have gone done over time anyways if MA didn´t stop it dropping.
Even if drop rate would have been extremely rar with chance 1:1mio there would have been some drops, every drop would have devalued the existing ones. Same counts for every other Item MA removed from LOOT.

Thats absolutely wrong way to keep EU alive with a working economy.

What players bought back in 2005 for 200k PED/20k$ (ModFAP, IMKII, MM to name it), was the brand new porsche (equivalent to RL item).
In RL you drive your brand new porsche and it will lose around 50% of its original value in first year, the longer you drive it less value it will have.
At some point around 20-30 years after you bought your brand new porsche, the value may start to raise again.
Why? Not because it is the f--in best car you can get at the moment, no just its so damn old and outdated most of it already dumped to recyclers. At that point your porsche will be interesting for collectors of old cars, thats why value will raise on it.

The reallity in EU is that this 10 year old (MM, ModFAP, IMKII) is still the f---in best item ingame (when it comes to eco). Why ?
Because MA refused to introduce better items than that, and MA refused to let it drop. Thats protectionism.

EU evolved but not into all directions:
We got more HP today, we got higher skills today - skill system is open - theoretically possible to reach massive health and levels of 300+
Mobs evolved more HP on high end mobs, fast regen on some of them, more DMG dealed by high end mobs.

Weapons evolved, more DMG/s at higher cost less DMG/pec
FAPs evolved, more heal/s at higher cost less Heal/pec
Armors evolved, more protection, higher durabillity (mainly on L)
Enhancer got introduced, even more DMG/Heal at even higher cost (enhancers break, tiering needs resources)

Why only in that way?

Where is the more heal/pec
Where is the more dmg/pec

Why is this old items, still the brand new porsche, although there is so much bigger, stronger, more HP mobs, more HP on players, more skill on players

Where is that god damn FAP that heals 200/p but needs LVL 120+ medic
Where is that god damn Gun that deals 5 DMG/p but needs LVL 120+ in hit


What MA did over the years is making everything more expencive, thats why people leave.

In real world scientists always improve items in two directions
1. higher efficence - maybe accepting a little less eco
2. better eco - maybe accepting a little less efficence
3. trying to get both without negativ effects

EU is far away from beeing a virtual world, as a world needs progression in all directions not only in one.
 
I think what made us have any loot in the past, was due to the fact that there wasnt much information about weapons/armors/tools. Nowadays there are and people hunt/mine as eco as they can, and they still want to earn money. There must be some losses to be gains.
Also people didnt know much about what mob to hunt to get profit (or areas to mine), now everyone only hunts (efficiently) the few mobs that is giving the "best items" or mining the "safe" places.

On a sidenote: i Think the usage of thousands H-DNA instead of some resurrection chips benefits the entire economy more. Quantity over Quality often seems to work.
 
My guess why things are "tricky" would stem from this.

In the old, old days when there was just one planet called Calypso.

You downloaded the game, you arrived at somewhere called "New Arrivals" and arrived at a bustling BUSY town called Port Atlantis clearly made from yellow lego bricks. ;)




Nowadays, new players have a "russian roulette" chance of arriving at any number of completely dead planets. No welcome, no players, how fast you think they'd hit uninstall if they didnt do some further research?

I'm not sure what a solution to this would be, possibly some kind of indicator for a new player which planet had a busy playerbase, doesn't have to be a number, maybe a graph or other pictoral indicator.
 
On a sidenote: i Think the usage of thousands H-DNA instead of some resurrection chips benefits the entire economy more. Quantity over Quality often seems to work.

Agree!
BTW, when warants, failed on 49 PED beacon back the days, they would have been happy about a few HDNA instead a Res-Chip carried by a dead teammate :D
 
yes it is one of a kind and I don't think there is going to be another one in the future.
(that's why I'm here and I will stay as far this world exist)

It is truly one of a kind, and that is really the ONLY reason it still exists. Not because of any real successful execution by MA..

Excellent concept, ridiculous execution.

If another company took up this idea and developed it properly, EU would vanish as it would not even be able to attempt to compete.
 
It is truly one of a kind, and that is really the ONLY reason it still exists. Not because of any real successful execution by MA..

Excellent concept, ridiculous execution.

If another company took up this idea and developed it properly, EU would vanish as it would not even be able to attempt to compete.

That's been said for years though and I've thought it myself many, many times. But it has never happened and certainly won't happen now. And there are reasons for that. It ain't as easy to do as it sounds.
 
My guess why things are "tricky" would stem from this.

In the old, old days when there was just one planet called Calypso.

You downloaded the game, you arrived at somewhere called "New Arrivals" and arrived at a bustling BUSY town called Port Atlantis clearly made from yellow lego bricks. ;)




Nowadays, new players have a "russian roulette" chance of arriving at any number of completely dead planets. No welcome, no players, how fast you think they'd hit uninstall if they didnt do some further research?

I'm not sure what a solution to this would be, possibly some kind of indicator for a new player which planet had a busy playerbase, doesn't have to be a number, maybe a graph or other pictoral indicator.

Woot, exactly where you stand in the picture i bought my first Ghost armor, was a full 6 peice set.

And to the left, buying sweat @ Stairs!
 
Example 1. H-DNA killed the Resurrection Chip 24000Ped to worthless overnight

When H-DNA was introduced, res chips were not worth 24k

but i understand your point.
 
....Nowadays, new players have a "russian roulette" chance of arriving at any number of completely dead planets. No welcome, no players, how fast you think they'd hit uninstall if they didnt do some further research?

I'm not sure what a solution to this would be, possibly some kind of indicator for a new player which planet had a busy playerbase, doesn't have to be a number, maybe a graph or other pictoral indicator.

I think it will be much better a trial program (many MMO's offering that).
Calypso Gateway isn't bad at all; I believe it is great experience to get familiar with the game.
I choose my starting planet just by luck.
I believe if I had the opportunity to get familiar with the game on a couple of newcomers mission chains (like Gateway) and then to get an idea of the planets, I probably had chosen another planet. I'm sure because I have homes on 2 that I love to be on and I abandoned the planet I started.
 
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One thing I do miss is the swirlie cap of 50 ped no matter what mob. Atleast you would be happy to know atleast a 5 dollar loot happend.

Now u can hunt snables and get a swirlie for 5 ped. I mean 50 cent! Wow jump into the roof.

Killed alot of the fun to skill to atrox / feffoid / argo. Even foul could give a 50 ped ++ loot.
 
And to the left, buying sweat @ Stairs!

yup, wonderful times, people lying on the ground with heads propped up on their arm and gliding around, the little cat fights at the boxes. Beginners had a "mission" in getting the Twin Peaks Tp, like as if getting it meant that you are no beginner any longer, both places were bustling with activity.
 
Example 7 is half true. It's not 30% but success rate of the bp is near and full success however the statistic display only gives full success (I've said this multiple times).

A very prominent and well respected crafter has repeatedly stated, that the cos really indicates the total tt back. My own limited crafting would tend to agree.
 
A very prominent and well respected crafter has repeatedly stated, that the cos really indicates the total tt back. My own limited crafting would tend to agree.

Yes, usually, since it includes near successes. However, it must have been somewhat nerfed because we used to have about 42% CoS but I rarely see those numbers in the stats anymore.
 
yup, wonderful times, people lying on the ground with heads propped up on their arm and gliding around, the little cat fights at the boxes. Beginners had a "mission" in getting the Twin Peaks Tp, like as if getting it meant that you are no beginner any longer, both places were bustling with activity.

:cry::cry::cry:
 
yup, wonderful times, people lying on the ground with heads propped up on their arm and gliding around, the little cat fights at the boxes. Beginners had a "mission" in getting the Twin Peaks Tp, like as if getting it meant that you are no beginner any longer, both places were bustling with activity.

Thx for the nostalgic look back at the ultimate "unstructured quest" that got me hooked way back when. I fondly recall that addicting rush... finally surviving the epic run eastwards on the old map, wondering (& seriously doubting) if I would ever make it to a TP again with a pack of savage-fanged, salivating neconu (seemingly un-killable at any level to a orange-clad greenhorn) lurking outside the revival shed. Good Times!
 
Thx for the nostalgic look back at the ultimate "unstructured quest" that got me hooked way back when. I fondly recall that addicting rush... finally surviving the epic run eastwards on the old map, wondering (& seriously doubting) if I would ever make it to a TP again with a pack of savage-fanged, salivating neconu (seemingly un-killable at any level to a orange-clad greenhorn) lurking outside the revival shed. Good Times!

Actually, it was those months of running and getting stuck at remote outposts....that I've learnt how to gauge mob aggro and avoid them to be honest.

Frustrating, but necessary.
 
Altho I´m not Pker, I guess there was incentive for players who do like it that when arriving in Twin, there was basically always some "ubers" Pking in the ring, hell sometimes you would have 10-20 people shooting of gladly for a couple hours. People were having FUN!
 
Even foul could give a 50 ped ++ loot.

I remember times when we had 1kisch snables, exa and daiki young loots in the HoF list.
Seems this can´t happen anymore, long time no high loots on beginner mobs

It never happend to me, but seeing that it could happen, one reason not leaving and accepting some losses, as it could outbalance your whole EU career (as a beginner) to hit one of those.
 
Actually, it was those months of running and getting stuck at remote outposts....that I've learnt how to gauge mob aggro and avoid them to be honest.

Frustrating, but necessary.

I didn't find it frustrating (most of the time). I found it a huge challenge, which at the time was perfect for me. It matched the budget I had (none) and it gave me valuable hunting skills in return (slowly, but steady), such as evade and courage and athletics and...
 
Maybe we all should make a list of how we (the entire community) would like Entropia to Develop (Survive?) and send in to staff?
I think many oldtimers here have collected alot of good advices and memories throughout the many years.
 
Maybe we all should make a list of how we (the entire community) would like Entropia to Develop (Survive?) and send in to staff?
I think many oldtimers here have collected alot of good advices and memories throughout the many years.

Confusius say: the way back is not the way forward.
 
Confusius say: the way back is not the way forward.

I think you meant Confucius ;)
but I can understand your mistake since all these posts cam make you "confut...ius" :laugh:
 
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The topic of this thread is something I have just recently based an entire website around. So, in a way, I guess I've already done what one of the previous posters suggested and made a list of the things I've identified as problems.

Maybe we can utilize that forum and work together to come up with more, and flesh out the details?

Although I'm only a semi-veteran by most standards (about six years of play time) I have been in the game long enough to see the tides go in and out on the economy.

I spent the last year putting together a plan that I'm already working on setting into motion on Calypso. If you're interested in checking it out, you can find the details in my blog linked in my signature.

To make a quick go of explaining my thoughts:

  • I'm inclined to agreee that item cost diminishes to near TT very fast. However, I don't think we can attribute this to just one factor. Between over-saturation of "for-fun" items like fashion and UL items, the lack of potential for return, people aren't willing to invest.
  • MA has been so slow about fixing things and updating the game, that the concept of speculation has fizzled and died. How can we speculate on items' future usefulness when there is minimal "hype generation" by MA for updates, and when updates themselves typically do more harm than good?
  • The trade value of low-end items (like sweat) is so small that not enough ped is moving around. As a result, new players can't get started (unless of course you deposit - but the game is marketed as "free to play" and most new players come with the anticipation that they'll get at least a certain level of entertainment out of the game before they're forced to deposit. Currently, the "time until 1st deposit is necessary" is almost instant, and thats a problem). That, combined with poor explanation as to WHY the economy is so tight results in low player retention, and low player retention / low income of players who are retained means very little low-end and middle-end trade. That's a big part of the reason why the floor of the economy is so cold right now.
  • Ineffective use of land has produced heavy player grouping and fragmentation, leaving the rest of the game feeling big, empty and alone. It's discouraging to new players and takes me back to the previous bullet. (I have a little more detail on my thoughts about the misuse of land area in this thread)

I make mention of these things because I indentify a lot of them as broad problems that need to be fixed - but I also mention them because they are broad problems that the players can have a hand in fixing.

I'll spare the long details of how in this post as it's already been written in my blog - but for those who are interested, I hope the read there will be worth your time.

If any of you are curious to know exactly what the Entropia Revival Project is, check the blog out - or, I have a brief explanation in this post.

-Faucon
 
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