Unbalanced loot or just the new standard?

If I post this in the wrong section I apologize but addressing Dev's directly really can't be wrong.

What's up with loot balancing?

I get the idea about not having every mob carry all the generic loots, forcing us to vary our hunting habits to get what we need and want, but something must be off when bulk of all loot from a hunting session is ammo or stuff that can be used for making ammo, ie shrapnel?

I got a small hof today, yay me, soloing the maffoid Warchief Kazrak thingie, but when I checked out the goodies about 560 ped out of the 597 was ammo (the bulk part) and shrapnel. The rest was TT food with a maximum MU just shy of 102%.
What happened to ammo just working as a topper-upper-thingie?

Please tell me this isn't how it's supposed to work from now on?

i still rant about the loot-fairness-distribution-change from several months ago that i got to know just 3 weeks ago. The shock was huge, people adviced me to go hunt puny mob to get used to it. I made the math and i think i cant continue playing EU with this loot system.

If i get it right i think i need to get 7 times more HoFs or 7 times bigger HoFs to play as before, which i think is totally out of question. Before, means before my 20 moths break which i did because of my massive losses during 2012. I am not even talking about profit here, i am waayyy past Level 7: Acceptance! - Hmmm, am i?

When i returned i was a little shocked that many players just had swallowed it, i couldnt believe it. Maybe this is just me and i am in an deep loot-hole -possible, i was in a loot-hole before, all were in a looot-hole before, some people seem to have it for 9 years. Some suddenly ATHed on an epic scale... after 9 years of bad loots. Some didnt. -thats what i thought.

I look on auctions and find the DOA Loudmouth which fell back to 5k and nobody buys it. Whats happening here? Its creature levels of 2014 with loot like 2006. Its weapons like 2014, costs like 2014, skills like 2014 but the loot is like 2006. I am talking the loot distribution system, not even the MUs, which suck today compared to 2006. Its probably a very good time to start EU now, but not a good time to play it. Go hunt puny and get used to it! Hmmm do they have punny Daspletors out there?

This is further away from balanced than ever before! Thats my first impression after a 20 months break. Oh wait, whats the name of the new first rank society again? I wondered why they fell silent. Probably they can afford to fall silent, i cant.

Thx and kudos to Mischief for raising the topic, i thought i am the only sane person in the universe.

As my prediction turns out correctly, I would like to offer condolences to all who had expectations from this game,...

May it rest in peace, it was a nice ride, we now have to face it - ghost game, not just ghost town as some were before...

ENTROPIA,...

Parlog said:

i still rant about the loot-fairness-distribution-change from several months ago that i got to know just 3 weeks ago. The shock was huge, people adviced me to go hunt puny mob to get used to it. I made the math and i think i cant continue playing EU with this loot system.

If i get it right i think i need to get 7 times more HoFs ............

Click to expand...

Not sure if this will help any, but i found that caly seems to drop more shrap than ark (no big test or anything just hunting last night and today). Also loot mix seems wider than mobs i looked at on Caly. Now maybe... just maybe this is to reverse trades of oils etc from caly to ark over last few years, or perhaps each planet has a cap on drops of say wool/hide etc and caly (being most active planet) drops dry up quicker?

Hope things even out for you Parlog, but i have had a low phase for a period also. Should even out overall i hope, but can become a ped sink if keeping to same high cost per kill mob and hoping (needing badly) equilizer multiplier. Or do as i do and drop mob size/cost and swear when multiplier comes .

The bigger the loot, the more ammo. Kim told us this. Guessing that the idea is that since you are hoffing your profiting TT wise and therefore the stuff with MU is distributed to the other loots.

You should consider going to play hello kitty adventures or something more meaningful if you hate this game so much, the_profit. You're getting quite tedious.

As to the OP and the parlog, shrapnel change is to allow you to hunt further. The player base asked for it. It might be dropping too much but I happen to like it... could just tone it down a hair and include a melee weapon repair provision for us arcsparkers. Least I also have ranged in my mix.

For loudmouth, nonsib weapons are out of favor. People are wiseing up about econess of hunting. There are also many other alternatives available.. including higher level pirons after this last vu.

As for someone's comment about needing 7 times more hofs or whatever.. this is nonsense. You just need to live in markup. This is a zero sum game (minus decay). Those that you say have swallowed it (insert joke here) have simply learned the new systems and have adapted. The rest either expected loot to fly out of their ass or are paying the price for ignoring the penalty of uneco setups whether directly by the Weaponry used or indirectly through effective dpp by hunting over his or her level through excessive armor decay.

Perhaps instead of bitching about the misfortune, it would be rather important to understand what the more successful people in game are doing and more importantly why. I've learned quite a lot in the last couple of months and while being heavily ribbed by friends about my gear indecision, it has worked out well.

If you live by TT, you will die in TT. If you live in markup, you will prosper.

Norbert said:

Hope things even out for you Parlog

Click to expand...

yes, because of you guys, i am one of the most entertained humans on earth! I mean it always evened out in the end somehow. I dont whine about past things and peds spent, i am sorry for the future.

WhiningSkeptic said:

The bigger the loot, the more ammo. Kim told us this. Guessing that the idea is that since you are hoffing your profiting TT wise and therefore the stuff with MU is distributed to the other loots.

Click to expand...

I compare the loot to the loot of 2006 because shrapnel is basically like peds in loot. It didnt really made me itchy to turn shrapnel into ammo to make my runs longer, i tt-ed it, but it can be a helping thing when you run out of ammo because things dont work out like planned.

Parlog said:

... snip..

I look on auctions and find the DOA Loudmouth which fell back to 5k and nobody buys it. Whats happening here?.

..snip....

Click to expand...

Hi M8,
nice to see you back, though sad to hear how you experience your comeback.

I won't comment on most you wrote, just this particular point.

While you were away there was a flood of UL-SIB dropping of all kind on all levels. Melee, Ranged, low dps, high dps... These new weapons are far superior to 2012 first gen SIB in terms of eco and dps, let alone oldschool non-SIB.

Therefore yes Oldschool gear has a low demand now and also UL-SIB dropped a lot in prices due to high supply. Everyone, his grandmother and family dog now owns at least 40dps UL SIB gear with eco > 2.9, so hardly any demand on oldschool gear except the few people with the skills.

atomicstorm said:

You should consider going to play hello kitty adventures or something more meaningful if you hate this game so much, the_profit. You're getting quite tedious.

As to the OP and the parlog, shrapnel change is to allow you to hunt further. The player base asked for it. It might be dropping too much but I happen to like it... could just tone it down a hair and include a melee weapon repair provision for us arcsparkers. Least I also have ranged in my mix.

For loudmouth, nonsib weapons are out of favor. People are wiseing up about econess of hunting. There are also many other alternatives available.. including higher level pirons after this last vu.

As for someone's comment about needing 7 times more hofs or whatever.. this is nonsense. You just need to live in markup. This is a zero sum game (minus decay). Those that you say have swallowed it (insert joke here) have simply learned the new systems and have adapted. The rest either expected loot to fly out of their ass or are paying the price for ignoring the penalty of uneco setups whether directly by the Weaponry used or indirectly through effective dpp by hunting over his or her level through excessive armor decay.

Perhaps instead of bitching about the misfortune, it would be rather important to understand what the more successful people in game are doing and more importantly why. I've learned quite a lot in the last couple of months and while being heavily ribbed by friends about my gear indecision, it has worked out well.

If you live by TT, you will die in TT. If you live in markup, you will prosper.

Click to expand...

very good post! I know that adaption is the key! I know that 10 times more turnover is the key. I know that it will bring a little less than you and i might expect, ... entropy. But put my shoes on for a second. I am a level 40 evader, level 38 paramedic. I find thats what can be considered midlevel. Just double it and there can be no doubt about it that its ubah, half it, thats not enough somehow, the fun has not yet begun, you know, "starter". Its a whole different thing to make it up to level 70 now, than it was 20 month ago. Okay lets say, no 7 times bigger hofs, no 7 times more hofs but the time to skill up has 7-folded, in eco terms. This is what just happened.

Actually i planned to give minecraft another try, this time in a Panda costume, Pandas are soooo cute!

Parlog said:

I compare the loot to the loot of 2006 because shrapnel is basically like peds in loot. It didnt really made me itchy to turn shrapnel into ammo to make my runs longer, i tt-ed it, but it can be a helping thing when you run out of ammo because things dont work out like planned.

Click to expand...

Don't TT your shrapnel, sell it to me!

i am happy to see some old names here, i wonder how they experieced "the changes in the loot system" of the past 2 years.

I have moved to lower level mobs as the returns on looted items on larger mobs don't cover the costs to hunt them anymore. Well for me anyways. Spending more to hunt larger mobs requires more then 101% back in shrapnel for sure. Lower level mobs it works out great, or so far it has for me. Although boring as hell I seem to turn profits almost every hunt on the smaller mobs after the VU, I go anything larger then feffoid, low level ones, I start to play the slot machine and hope for global or more to break even.

Although team hunts on larger mobs seems to balance things out a bit more, I am almost thinking they are pushing for team hunting over solo grinding on larger mobs.

WhiningSkeptic said:

The bigger the loot, the more ammo. Kim told us this. Guessing that the idea is that since you are hoffing your profiting TT wise and therefore the stuff with MU is distributed to the other loots.

Click to expand...

I could have accepted that but since it's just bogus I wont.
Ammo and shrapnel IS the bulk loot in EVERY drop with a few rare exceptions, atleast on the lower mid-level mobs I usually can afford to hunt these days.

I just had a Maffoid - Miner bot - Drone hunt. When I get back in game I'll sum the loot up and post the values of the different loot dropped during a small 500 ped ammo hunt.

K-Max said:

I have moved to lower level mobs as the returns on looted items on larger mobs don't cover the costs to hunt them anymore. Well for me anyways. Spending more to hunt larger mobs requires more then 101% back in shrapnel for sure. Lower level mobs it works out great, or so far it has for me. Although boring as hell I seem to turn profits almost every hunt on the smaller mobs after the VU, I go anything larger then feffoid, low level ones, I start to play the slot machine and hope for global or more to break even.

Although team hunts on larger mobs seems to balance things out a bit more, I am almost thinking they are pushing for team hunting over solo grinding on larger mobs.

Click to expand...

very good info, i can hunt feffos naked, no deal, but you know it will never be like in the good Korss 400 times again, i stoped hunting them, when Korss stopped dropping, like many.

Parlog said:

very good info, i can hunt feffos naked, no deal, but you know it will never be like in the good Korss 400 times again, i stoped hunting them, when Korss stopped dropping, like many.

Click to expand...

Well I meant to say loot in general not specifically mean loot items. But it holds true for items as well it seems.

Parlog said:

very good info, i can hunt feffos naked, no deal, but you know it will never be like in the good Korss 400 times again, i stoped hunting them, when Korss stopped dropping, like many.

Click to expand...

Yep those days were good, also bristles dropped em .

I saw changes to system as going back to old PE, ped and hides etc, back then though animal hides were like 200%. Mark ups do seem to be slowly rising on oils etc, which = good for hunters initially, but bad for crafters and rise in crafted stuff % for hunters as cycle comes full circle.

I guess as we play longer the mythical 90%, or range of multipliers become wider - might explain why older players seem to experience longer downtimes - if say total turnover of avatar influenced returns somehow. 10% say of 100 ped is different to 10% of 200,000 or whatever. All thats loot theory stuff tho and so many different takes/angles on it.

I do think to much shrap on hunts did on caly atm tho tbh, but will be tweaked by loot command as it goes i'm sure.

Anyways gl man, hope all comes good

Dibbler

It's like I always say.. That I am aware that what I put in i count as lost and you have to be able to afford to lose it. but I demand some quality in the game for my money so i can hunt and have fun in the game.......Dont need to gain profit but to have fun but when i dont get that i will do like the rest of ppl start to sweat like i do now " and wait for better times " or sell all i have and stop.

For all my critics, this is not just a lament quite logical query or requirement.

Personally I do not think MA thinking about the long term for when as a normal functioning company so they had thought a little more on their customers.

I take myself as an example.

MA knows how I want it in the game. We say that they're doing that I wish the game, what would happen !!! I had been happy and continue to make deposits for joy i get because I do not have the requirement to make a profit but just to have a good entertainment.

They would have had a profit of from me that is an average of $ 1.5K per month and thats only one avatar in the game ($ 18k per year who they say no to) That is exactly where they should put their "famous" balance in a mind.
I think that most players in here know the gene, this phenomenon because we are here first and foremost to get an entertainment.

I know there is many players who feel like me in the game.

i am deep in the adaption process to the new loot system, gathering information, adapting to the new factors, but you know one thing comes to my mind over and over again: How to win a WoF Final under those circumstances? I really make my mind up about that question!

where does this whole thing go?

valentin said:

It's like I always say.. That I am aware that what I put in i count as lost and you have to be able to afford to lose it. but I demand some quality in the game for my money so i can hunt and have fun in the game.......Dont need to gain profit but to have fun but when i dont get that i will do like the rest of ppl start to sweat like i do now " and wait for better times " or sell all i have and stop.

For all my critics, this is not just a lament quite logical query or requirement.

Personally I do not think MA thinking about the long term for when as a normal functioning company so they had thought a little more on their customers.

I take myself as an example.

MA knows how I want it in the game. We say that they're doing that I wish the game, what would happen !!! I had been happy and continue to make deposits for joy i get because I do not have the requirement to make a profit but just to have a good entertainment.

They would have had a profit of from me that is an average of $ 1.5K per month and thats only one avatar in the game ($ 18k per year who they say no to) That is exactly where they should put their "famous" balance in a mind.
I think that most players in here know the gene, this phenomenon because we are here first and foremost to get an entertainment.

I know there is many players who feel like me in the game.

Click to expand...

is this valentin, who did like 1k rants on this very forum about how bad the system is balanced for Ubahs? Who sold his shadow? (sounded like you did that!Dunno), these sheeps dont even know what a propper loot system is! You know that and i do it

i mean like i once sold deep cadmium paints for 12600%, i know many examples like those, that worked and if it only worked for 6 hours. But it was the biggest fun to watch out for those changes and fill the niche if it was there and prosper. We dont have that anymore, i cant see it yet.

i see people sitting on clds sleeping.

correction:

i see people sitting on clds sleeping while doing puny mob.

Kudos for EMW with his BL1800 though, id really love to join you in a hunt and see how that works out, m8!

I would change the times you hunt if you mostly hunt the same time of hour per day. Or change the mob or location. You said you lost a lot and that could be due to being in the wrong spot at the wrong time. So if you play during the same hours more or less change area instead and see if things pick up.

Mischief said:

If I post this in the wrong section I apologize but addressing Dev's directly really can't be wrong.

What's up with loot balancing?

I get the idea about not having every mob carry all the generic loots, forcing us to vary our hunting habits to get what we need and want, but something must be off when bulk of all loot from a hunting session is ammo or stuff that can be used for making ammo, ie shrapnel?

I got a small hof today, yay me, soloing the maffoid Warchief Kazrak thingie, but when I checked out the goodies about 560 ped out of the 597 was ammo (the bulk part) and shrapnel. The rest was TT food with a maximum MU just shy of 102%.
What happened to ammo just working as a topper-upper-thingie?

Please tell me this isn't how it's supposed to work from now on?

Click to expand...

I to feel that the % of shrapnel and ammo is too high compared to total loot per hunt. Why not 1 or the other? why both? Depending on the mob, there still is armor and weapons of varing types dropping. Sadly, not as much as pre VU15.

On the Warchief, It never dropped more than ammo and combat tokens, and often it only dropped ammo, One of the more rare mob that was this way before VU15

Mischief said:

If I post this in the wrong section I apologize but addressing Dev's directly really can't be wrong.

What's up with loot balancing?

I get the idea about not having every mob carry all the generic loots, forcing us to vary our hunting habits to get what we need and want, but something must be off when bulk of all loot from a hunting session is ammo or stuff that can be used for making ammo, ie shrapnel?

I got a small hof today, yay me, soloing the maffoid Warchief Kazrak thingie, but when I checked out the goodies about 560 ped out of the 597 was ammo (the bulk part) and shrapnel. The rest was TT food with a maximum MU just shy of 102%.
What happened to ammo just working as a topper-upper-thingie?

Please tell me this isn't how it's supposed to work from now on?

Click to expand...

I to feel that the % of shrapnel and ammo is too high compared to total loot per hunt. Why not 1 or the other? why both? Depending on the mob, there still is armor and weapons of varying types dropping. Sadly, not as much as pre VU15.

On the Warchief, It never dropped more than ammo and combat tokens, and often it only dropped ammo, One of the more rare mob that was this way before VU15

I would change the times you hunt if you mostly hunt the same time of hour per day. Or change the mob or location. You said you lost a lot and that could be due to being in the wrong spot at the wrong time. So if you play during the same hours more or less change area instead and see if things pick up.

I was initially upset about the changes as well, but in practice, I've found it isn't as bad as I had thought it would be. You do get less total TT of items that are supposed to have markup, but if you're hunting the same mob, you're going to only have about 5-7 stacks of items, which actually lets you accumulate enough of them to sell. Before, I might have had more non-ammo loot, but I was only able to get 1-3 stacks of items each run where I had enough to sell on broker, and had like 20-30 different kinds of loots that I wouldn't have enough of to sell for at least 1,000 runs.

The total amount of PED value being auctioned per run really hasn't changed, the only difference is I'm not accumulating crap that's going to sit in the storage forever, instead I'm getting shrapnel at 101%.

I understand where you're coming from, but don't mind the change as much as I thought I would have.

-Sityl

Ok, I summed it up.

500 ped ammo worth of hunting ammo wise.

Loot back including 2 small 50 ped globals:


I'm not complaining about return since that is more or less the same as always.
The issue is how loot is made up - how it's balanced.

The result from this hunt does not in any way differ from the result from other hunts I've made after VU. Some have been equally long, some have been shorter. I will not count the 597 Ped HoF, since that isn't "normal" return, but even so - 560 ped ammo and shrapnel in a 597 ped loot - that's just not sane.

Parlog said:

is this valentin, who did like 1k rants on this very forum about how bad the system is balanced for Ubahs? Who sold his shadow? (sounded like you did that!Dunno), these sheeps dont even know what a propper loot system is! You know that and i do it

i mean like i once sold deep cadmium paints for 12600%, i know many examples like those, that worked and if it only worked for 6 hours. But it was the biggest fun to watch out for those changes and fill the niche if it was there and prosper. We dont have that anymore, i cant see it yet.

i see people sitting on clds sleeping.

correction:

i see people sitting on clds sleeping while doing puny mob.

Kudos for EMW with his BL1800 though, id really love to join you in a hunt and see how that works out, m8!

Click to expand...

Some how I feel you are referring to me. Yes I sit on my cld and cycle the payouts. But I dont hunt puny mobs. I teamhunt a lot with my society brothers and sisters. You spoke with pride how you did that in the past. Scaling down doesnt have to mean h hunting punies. It can be hunting in team and sharing the risks of loss. You are still part of us. So join us and have some fun!
Just check entropialife to see what team "Odysseus Unbound" hunted yesterday. You will find chompers guardians etc.

Well, i must say i was 1st ( or one of 1st) who was praising MA for shrapnels and general stackables segregation among many mobs. I saw bright thing in that and how it could turn to be great helper to economy with few small tweaks ( Trade Terminal content + web shop ....but thats really details )

Now I am after few globals in new system and have similar feeling like op. In regular loot i am receiving shrapnels + ammo and in globals most of its TT is same shrapnel + ammo.

Now i doub't how that change might help in anything as various stackables is so small part of any loot that for people doing 200-300 peds ammo runs with 3x -5x such bankroll those stackables go to TT anyway as there is now way u can put them on auction. With smaller bankrols and beginer players it's even worse.

So nice cunning from MA side. Either u keep so big bankrol ( make depo ) to stack that few % of loot each run or u lose even tiny bits of MU u could get. Oh..MA gave 101 % automaticaly from shrapnels but when u shoot it out in the field in reality u get again 90% out of their TT.

All what shall compensate for that ( most TT of global in form of usable stackable with MU if not some useful L item ) is not here...

How old is this VU?

Market needs time to adjust, and if it really happens that we get MU that have been standard back in 2006, then it looks a little different.

Point of the shrapnel/ammo loots is to limit stackables, so supply drops and crafters may be willing to pay more.

We should wait a few weeks to see how MU evolves on the stackables.
Personally I don´t think that people will dump stackables into TT when there is markup 150% or more on it.

Maybe it will need a little finetuning, but first we need to see effects on MU over time (not only few days).

I like to see the community view on the new VU, I am over all impressed with how the cycle will/has caused mu in materials and so far am very happy with results on this economic cycle. Over the next 30-60 days we will have a much better feel for how this will all play out. It is hard to form any opinions from just a few posters especially those who post and dont actually play the game on a daily, weekly or even monthly basis. Its like saying you want to win the lottery but never actually purchase a ticket. Loot cycles in this game can be very different, if you play and TT you will find yourself behind the 8-ball. If you take the time and use the auction and hunt eco you can make a profit, sometimes it may be small, others it may be big, you will have times that you lose, ultimately just try to enjoy the leisure time and the community that the game offers, is really my best advice.

Happy HoFing

Salty