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Fed up!

atomicstorm said:
All I am going to say to this topic.. please read and adapt:

Risk of ruin is a concept in gambling, insurance, and finance relating to the likelihood of losing all one's capital[1] or impacting one's bankroll to the point that it cannot be recovered. For instance, if someone bets all their money on a simple coin toss, the risk of ruin is 50%. In a multiple-bet scenario, risk of ruin correlates with the number of bets, in which risk increases the longer one plays.

Citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_of_ruin


Your risk of ruin should be 1-2%.
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You said the G word... and betting... I don't understand. You are saying play less, or more?
Also - any tips on adapting and I'm all ears. My point remains - I stay away from the game for awhile - come back and loose lot of cash in 2 days... why keep playing? If adapting is hunting punies all day with opalo, then i'll choose the later... and die.
 
Selosse said:
Well peronaly I do very well. But then again I turnover alot of peds. But the OP ask for peronal lootpools and very high avg. returns. Then I think most would quit the game! :) No excitement left. Since hofs would more or less dissapear.

GL OP, stay strong, don't stop believing!
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I'm not asking for personal loot pools. I'm asking that my money can last longer than 2-3 days - I just get times when I can't see the justification to continue to put several hundred dollars into this game every month. I think most will quit the game cause they can't afford that kind of high price anymore. There is no excitement if I loose my ass off in 2 days.
 
I remember long ago when 20 bucks ammo would last weeks but that's not reality.50 bucks ammo for a few days is exactly what you get now.It gets worse the longer you have played because your skills mean your hunting more expensive mobs because anything smaller is boring, so I say play project Ion its free.
 
Naithen said:
I remember long ago when 20 bucks ammo would last weeks but that's not reality.50 bucks ammo for a few days is exactly what you get now.It gets worse the longer you have played because your skills mean your hunting more expensive mobs because anything smaller is boring, so I say play project Ion its free.
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Well the reason is mainly that you use way bigger guns then way back. twice the dps probably means twice the loss.
Ten times the dps.....

Still loot should be more balanced for bigger guns (but not the way they 'balanced' mining).
 
DavinFelth said:
I'm not asking for personal loot pools. I'm asking that my money can last longer than 2-3 days - I just get times when I can't see the justification to continue to put several hundred dollars into this game every month. I think most will quit the game cause they can't afford that kind of high price anymore. There is no excitement if I loose my ass off in 2 days.
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I understand where you are coming from but you kind of already stated above that you would not like the game if it were to change. If MA were to make the larger mobs cheaper to hunt then well in return the higher lvl mobs would then in return give out less loot that as you stated would be boring. So you need to find a sweet spot in this game were money isn't an issue and you still like playing the game.
 
Its really amazing if u have in so many years of playing not understood the concept of bankroll and what to do and what not to do with 50-100$ budget.

You can blame MA as much as u want but if u are not ready or willing to use your head then i am afraid you have been playing the wrong game
 
Risk of ruin is a math concept. It is applicable in most things but most notably gambling and investing. It would be wise to understand it's concept. For the best example, look at how risk of ruin applies to betting in a game of blackjack. Conversely, said per hand wager is a cost of kill for any mob. The difference in these examples is the EV and that one is mostly an all or nothing proposition and the other is not.

As 5% is a fair standard, your hunt should not be more than 5% of your bank roll. That means you need to have a good chunk of ped if you want to do 8 to 12 ped mobs. And I happen to believe a good size hunt needs to be avg cost to kill x 500 with a def cost of less than 3%.

The latter is where most go so very wrong.
 
Selosse said:
Sry to hear your anger! Problem is people love globals and hofs! To get super stabile TT returns they need to remove alot of globals and hofs, and what fun we have left then? People already complaining about no big hofs!

Hard to balance it for all players. Best way as many say, go on alot smaller mobs and less dps on your gun. Alot of eco-alternative nowdays.

Good luck all
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The problem I see is that even tho they said they changed the system to more "stable" returns (less volatility), this in fact - is not true.

The globals, hofs, uber hofs went missing from the loot - yet - returns are same as they were, not as stable as they should be in counter effect to this.

Means you still get same loot volatility as back then but not the "compensation" hofs which would bring you up to the magic 90% return that is advertised...


So...what has MA actually done with loot:scratch2:
 
Divinity said:
Its really amazing if u have in so many years of playing not understood the concept of bankroll and what to do and what not to do with 50-100$ budget.

You can blame MA as much as u want but if u are not ready or willing to use your head then i am afraid you have been playing the wrong game
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Talking using the head is grotesque. This is not the point. The point is that the ROI in loots (meaning mining, hunting, i dont know about crafting though i never really crafted) seemed to be cut down to 1/7th of what it was several months ago and everybody swallows it, some even seem to be happy, majority fell silent or tell me to get over it. Check out EntropiaLife for a generation change of hunters in the top-100 within the last year and you will find the day when the milk turned sour.

Harmony probably got it right: twice the dmg/sec equals twice the loss, seven times the dmg/sec equals 7 times the loss (that equals my level of gameplay and as i posted somewhere else, thats what i got).

So question persists, why do i prefer to hunt with something around 84dmg/sec? Because that is what it takes to kill an Araneatrox Mature or mob of equal level and regeneration. Actually i have grown out of those in the summer of 2012 after finishing Araneatrox quest. I should move up in creature levels to get a propper gameplay again and to grow into Feffox within a year or two. But that is totally out of question now, the game has ended for me.

And every lowballer who has nice loots now with his 12dmg/sec will come to the point sooner or later, where he/she starts to understand what the problem is. But this probably wont happen, because if you continue to lowball, it will take you 42 years now, to get as much skills as i did in 7 years.

Sure thing you can mock me or Devin or any other midlevel player complaining. But you should ask yourself how much you mock yourself with it!
 
atomicstorm said:
Risk of ruin is a math concept. It is applicable in most things but most notably gambling and investing. It would be wise to understand it's concept. For the best example, look at how risk of ruin applies to betting in a game of blackjack. Conversely, said per hand wager is a cost of kill for any mob. The difference in these examples is the EV and that one is mostly an all or nothing proposition and the other is not.

As 5% is a fair standard, your hunt should not be more than 5% of your bank roll. That means you need to have a good chunk of ped if you want to do 8 to 12 ped mobs. And I happen to believe a good size hunt needs to be avg cost to kill x 500 with a def cost of less than 3%.

The latter is where most go so very wrong.
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This was probably one of the first things I learned when I started to play poker. Any game above 5% is essentially pure gambling. Unfortunately, that also means that on a good night you might win an equivalent to 10-20% of your bankroll which just isn't enough to make the game exciting.

Same thing with EU: On a good night, people want to quintuple their bankrolls and in order to do that they need to play with the full roll, even if it means that you're risking half of it.

E.g my own hunts recently. 1000 PED can either last a run on decent sized bots which on a bad day costs 500 PED. Or it can last 20 runs on small shinkibas, losing 25 PED on a bad night. The former is obviously by far more exciting while the latter will produce a more stable and predictable outcome.
 
Pham said:
Just to remind you guys how it was back in 2005:
You hunt aurlis all day long with about 5-7k in rifle (with impmk2 though), you lose 20 ped,
OMGOMG MA ARE CROOKS, IVE LOST $2 JUST IN 16 HOURS.
Most ubers will feel the same for you, because impmk2+armax/longu/tantardion = untold profits.
It is how you boil a frog.
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This info is very important to get the complete picture of what is happening here.

Compare to this:

If We assume about loot, I can only say this.

I do the osse mission and I'm almost finished with it where I've noticed that the average loot has been lowered and more recently, I have experienced something that never happened before, had to kill over 100 osse before i got a global and just now i am on over 1500 killed osse and stil no hof never happend before.
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The big problem is MA doesn't seem to get rich from it ... what does that say about their business model.

(edit : that being said, I do like EU but seem to play less than before these days as doing 10K the same thing for a mission is ridicilous too)
 
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hey DavinFelth

Like most people said 500 ped on those type mobs is a big risk. I understand your now at that level maybe to hunt those mobs and have the kit but you should always have something to hunt smaller mobs dunno if you do.

Im sure you haven't completed all the smallish missions why not try a mob around 300hp as i assume with your skills you have a majour advantage over newer players with high hp high evade, you can keep your decay costs very low as well as hunt them alot quicker and efficiently. Just because your at xxx lvl doesnt mean you have to hunt medium to high end mobs or going where people are globaling, you still skill just as good with the right type of weapon.

Iv lost a small fortune last few months on crafting hell i could have got something stupid like an asi ten give you perspective. so i feel your pain but i also had one my best months hunting for instance bercycle high maturity i was coming out consistently + tt plus their was mu on the loot as well. i had like a 205 ped bercycle old which tbh i was more taken back by that then my highest global on Frescoquda. Or the esi i got from hadraada mature yesterday yeah only ten ped one but considering their like a ped or so to kill still cool.

Just try going back to basics smaller mobs be eco your be surprised how fun they can be if you hunt them very quick.
 
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With that bankroll, you could have hunted punies for 100 days!!!!!!!! :cool:

I regularly do, when i am either low on peds, or want to skill something in particular

Rgds

Ace
 
AtamiKiangola said:
The big problem is MA doesn't seem to get rich from it ... what does that say about their business model.

(edit : that being said, I do like EU but seem to play less than before these days as doing 10K the same thing for a mission is ridicilous too)
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MA Make a percentage from decay, the more people decay the more they get. So they made more from him hunting big stuff out of his reach than they would if he had hunted punies

EDIT: in that time span

Rgds

Ace
 
Ace Flyster said:
MA Make a percentage from decay, the more people decay the more they get. So they made more from him hunting big stuff out of his reach than they would if he had hunted punies

EDIT: in that time span

Rgds

Ace
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Depends how much his weapons decay if he had a bad spell i wouldnt thought his weapons etc decay that much and most his ped went in loot pool Thus ma dont earn as much longterm. After all servers have to stay on and support has to be around so its better to earn something then nothing.
 
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Parlog said:
Talking using the head is grotesque. This is not the point. The point is that the ROI in loots (meaning mining, hunting, i dont know about crafting though i never really crafted) seemed to be cut down to 1/7th of what it was several months ago and everybody swallows it, some even seem to be happy, majority fell silent or tell me to get over it. Check out EntropiaLife for a generation change of hunters in the top-100 within the last year and you will find the day when the milk turned sour.

Harmony probably got it right: twice the dmg/sec equals twice the loss, seven times the dmg/sec equals 7 times the loss (that equals my level of gameplay and as i posted somewhere else, thats what i got).

So question persists, why do i prefer to hunt with something around 84dmg/sec? Because that is what it takes to kill an Araneatrox Mature or mob of equal level and regeneration. Actually i have grown out of those in the summer of 2012 after finishing Araneatrox quest. I should move up in creature levels to get a propper gameplay again and to grow into Feffox within a year or two. But that is totally out of question now, the game has ended for me.

And every lowballer who has nice loots now with his 12dmg/sec will come to the point sooner or later, where he/she starts to understand what the problem is. But this probably wont happen, because if you continue to lowball, it will take you 42 years now, to get as much skills as i did in 7 years.

Sure thing you can mock me or Devin or any other midlevel player complaining. But you should ask yourself how much you mock yourself with it!
Click to expand...

I am not mocking anybody specific and my writings are aimed usually at the context and not the ava himself. I could'nt mock myself because i know with 100% surety i can profit in any 3 professions of the game ( hunting, mining or crafting) and no force other then MA can change that and they will have to do it by brute force method. I profit a lot more from trading but that is not something i need to do to profit in EU.

Consider EU as a learning game instead of a slot machine and you will be surprised as to how much you have yet to learn. I know of lvl 100+ players and people here for 10+ years who know crap all about how EU works. Those who know are happy and playing and do really well and for obvious reasons don't come much to forums to whine and spend more time researching the in game mechanics.

EU is an rce and that means YOUR LEVEL is not decided just by the professional standing you have but also the monetary funding you have. You have grown out of a Civic and confident enough to drive a ferrari in real life does not mean that you can afford to. You can keep whining about how good at driving you have become but that does not mean you can drive one much less own one. Like racing, this is also a hobby which can get as expensive as YOU want. The problem is everyone considers themselves entitled to things which does not work in real life and nor does it work here.

For those who think more people are leaving the game then joining, you need to get out of the cocoon of this forum and actually meet people in game. The game has been more active last 2 months then i have seen since i started playing EU 4 1/2 years back. There are new people depositing more then all the whiners on pcf combined. Still you want to play the doomsday message, keep going.

There are whiners and winners in real life too. Your destiny is in your hands, make what you can of it.

Divinity
 
Divinity said:
I am not mocking anybody specific and my writings are aimed usually at the context and not the ava himself. I could'nt mock myself because i know with 100% surety i can profit in any 3 professions of the game ( hunting, mining or crafting) and no force other then MA can change that and they will have to do it by brute force method. I profit a lot more from trading but that is not something i need to do to profit in EU
Divinity
Click to expand...

Who say you aren't part of MA staff that plays the game as regular players? Since there is no transparency about it...


the_prophet said:
The problem I see is that even tho they said they changed the system to more "stable" returns (less volatility), this in fact - is not true.

The globals, hofs, uber hofs went missing from the loot - yet - returns are same as they were, not as stable as they should be in counter effect to this.

Means you still get same loot volatility as back then but not the "compensation" hofs which would bring you up to the magic 90% return that is advertised...


So...what has MA actually done with loot:scratch2:
Click to expand...

Weird how none of you defenders comment on this one :deal:
 
the_prophet said:
Who say you aren't part of MA staff that plays the game as regular players? Since there is no transparency about it...
Click to expand...

Sissi said:
And mankind is from Sirius :girl:
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Care to elaborate as to why is it so impossible?

MA has 50 employees, they stated themselves that they play the game as regulars..

If you have nothing smart to say just keep away from keyboard, unless you're on their payrole also, then I understand why such reply (mocking people is best MA knows how to do when they defend themselves)...
 
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the_prophet said:
Care to elaborate as to why is it so impossible?

MA has 50 employees, they stated themselves that they play the game as regulars..

If you have nothing smart to say just keep away from keyboard, unless you're on their payrole also, then I understand why such reply (mocking people is best MA knows how to do when they defend themselves)...
Click to expand...

You probably already pointed out over 50 people to be MA-employees...
Probably everyone is an MA-employee and it's just you who is here as the "normal" player.
 
the_prophet said:
Care to elaborate as to why is it so impossible?

MA has 50 employees, they stated themselves that they play the game as regulars..

If you have nothing smart to say just keep away from keyboard, unless you're on their payrole also, then I understand why such reply (mocking people is best MA knows how to do when they defend themselves)...
Click to expand...

Please provide quote (aka evidence) where MA employees state that they play as regulars. So please defend yourself.
 
AtamiKiangola said:
The big problem is MA doesn't seem to get rich from it ... what does that say about their business model.
Click to expand...

Financials per 2013 for whole group (Mindark + EU AB + Calypso + Ilunova):

Net sales: 46,797,000 SEK ~ 6,400,000 USD.

What is this? Roughly 9.5 million USD deposits minus 3 million USD withdrawals.

Personnel costs: 29,988,020 SEK ~ 4,130,000 USD

Group employees are 50, so ~ 82k USD/year each, or 6800 USD/month / 5300 EUR, not too shabby. In reality the amount includes the social security costs, so salaries would be more like 60k/year, 5000USD/month, 4000 EURO.

Is an average, the board and CEOs get ~30% of total salaries (7 people?)

A good technical engineer under permanent employment with a large, PROFITABLE, tech company would get roughly the same amount if not less in the Western Europe, around 1/3 of that in Eastern Europe, with work supporting millions of active customers 365/7/24 across tons of different platforms and applications, with few hours top to solve any issues.

If MA would adjust their personnel costs to their overall performance, maybe the books will look a bit better. Some of them have the good life, while owning players 74.5 million SEK, or ~ 10 million USD which of course does not include the player driven MU. Which players have to understand too that it was their own gambling/investment paying mucho dinero on an item which may, or may not, be worth 2 cents in the future.

They really need a marketing genius not only to attract new depositing players, but also to find a way to decrease the costs of operation and also to decrease the PED liabilities in game in a pleasant way for the players.

What means pleasant? Well, we all have ideas but we are not payed senior MA employees so why giving them for free?

Last, seeing the large amount of TT PED floating in game, I'm curious if the TT value of banks deeds and big shops are a significant amount or also close to 0.
 
Neil Stockton said:
If you don't want to risk losing that much, hunt smaller stuff. On an 800 ped budget you should be hunting mobs that are 500 hp max, and more like 200 hp for most stable returns.

Aurli: min hp 1530
Feffox: min hp 1400
Hogglo: min hp 2000
Big atrox: 2000 hp
Kreltin: min hp 2390

No mystery here, your returns are normal for this kind of gamble hunting. Of what you hunted, only Atrax small to medium is in your budget (well maybe the bots, not sure what hp those were).
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this is precisely the wrong attitude, and indeed if it is MA's then its the reason for the game stagnating. yes, one shouldnt expect to break even every hunt or even get same returns between 1000 spent on atrox vs argo. but it shouldnt be such a chasm between profit and loss over short periods. the cycles should shorter. saying you should have to grind through 500 of a mob to see a fair rate of return - im not saying you are necessarily incorrect, only that this illustrates that the balance is all wrong.
 
Fed up? Sell out. The games boring and really not worth the effort, pew pew pew :loot: pew pew :loot: x 10000, madness utter deranged madness no wonder my missus thought I was nuts doing the same crap over and over, I was mad - and I paid to do it!.

Deposit here and lose each and every time (and deal with RSI) or spend much less cash in the Steam sales once a month and have a life? It's a no brainer really and I've not looked back (apart from the occasional visit here to see if it's still alive) :)
 
Sissi said:
Which part of "REGULAR" do you not understand?
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Blind or illiterate, you are?

Kim|Calypso stated in the interview;

[The question of the interviewer];
-Also, say you loot an uber item (modfap, etc) and you don't plan on using it. Do you have to tt it? Do you have to toss it on auction? What if the item was looted in team - how would you go about splitting it?

[Kim|Calypso's answer];
We play like regular avatars, its up to the employee in question to make that determination

Stop making a fool out of yourself, Sissy
 
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All i can about this thread is: You have played for years and you just found out that MA takes % of our loots? it would take max 10x 800 ped tt runs to get to this results, as every time you hunt you give away 10%. But as you said you used L weapon and fap, so partion of your loot is given away to other players.. Which will leave you probably 5-6 hunting runs.
If you would have cycled your peds only once then you would probably have much more peds left.

The more you cycle the less you end up still having.


And 600 peds for gambling two days is very low price to pay... Try going to casino with 80USd and come out with 20usd two days later.. You could have had ATH and you wouldnt have said a single bad word. You are paying for the chance of getting something good. This time you didnt win, end of story this is not paid monthly subscription game where you put in 20 usd and have fun for 2 months. It is virtual universe where you put in as much as you can afford and do whatever you want to make those peds grow.

And yeah i am still MA loving reseller noob, who knows nothing about game or economy. But hey atleast i am happy :)
 
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