I have a haunting (hey it's halloween) suspicion that MA might be screwing over their players intentionally.

Legion

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As the topic says i have a suspicion that MA might be screwing over their player-base intentionally.
It seems that they may change how the system works in regards to how much knowledge you have
on how the system works.

As an example i can take my mining.
Usually when i come back from a break i can follow the veins (ie i don't run in a straight line, but i turn and twist and follow the vein and mine both ore and enmatter)
and basically stand on top of each claim i hit mining the way i do, i would say roughly 80% of the time the claim pop up within 10m from my drop point. And i get a hit
rate between 28-35% which should be considered good, i also most often know in what area to mine to be in the right spot for bigger claims (don't ask me how ;) )

But after one or two of these runs (150 - 200 ped runs)where i most often make a small profit even without a global the system all of a sudden changes and claims are no
longer following the same logic and it get's a LOT harder to follow the vein. Usually the vein is pretty straight and i can follow it as it turns but when the system changes claims
end up doing much bigger turns and can be zig zag, turning backwards etc instead of a more "straight" line.

If this is indeed true it's highly unethical of MA as they punish the users who know the system and makes it harder for them. King (the maker of candy crush) was for instance under suspicion
of doing this type of thing that if you where good at the game they made it harder to make you more likely to buy in-app purchase powerup's. But they quickly came out saying that such a behaviour
they would never do as it would be highly unethical.

But knowing MA and their former CEO from the time i was an intern there, this in my eyes would be exactly something MA might do.

Of course there could be another reason for this but it seems to be to much of a coincidence that it always seems to happen after a few good runs.
I don't have any evidence but it's my gut feeling that the system changes depending on how well you do by how much you know of the system.

Has anyone else noticed a similar pattern? And i also don't know if this also happens with hunting etc, but it's more visible when mining i think as mobs are already shown on the map while doing that activity.
 
I think that you believe in veins (no opinion here) which applies confirmation bias to your mindset while mining. This would give you a skewed impression of what is happening around you.

Next run: Plot down the cords of all your finds and your position . Stand still when you bomb. If you do see the same pattern while doing that, then you should do further investigation.
 
Or maybe there is no vein...
 
Lol you and your veins again... MA should change the system as often as possible to make it fair.
This thread is new level .. whining + crazy theory
 
Is it just me? or is there a full moon somewhere tonight? :laugh:
 
Is it just me? or is there a full moon somewhere tonight? :laugh:

Yes, full moon on caly. :eyecrazy: Putting tinfoil hat on is the only thing that can help.
 
Whats going on lately with these kind of threads? Everything is focused on peds and dollars, profits and loses. It seems everybody forgot how to have fun in a video game.

Think I'm taking a small vacation from forums before I get infected, for my own good.

:(
 
what you think you know doesn`t matter...
what you know doesn`t matter...

Hint 1: ever heard of "shell game" ?
they`ll let you win in the begining.
some others will also win around you...
then you`ll lose your arse

Hint 2: scientific proof:
step 1: take a break
step 2: come back, start mining completely random, break even / make small profit
step 3: keep mining randomly or use your knowledge, it doesn`t matter.. you`re still gonna lose your arse ...

hint 3:
the system is designed to make you lose a shitload
it`s the reason a lot of the ppl who made / can make money in EU in other ways than mining / hunting / crafting, still don`t play anymore...
see Warrants, Star, and many others...
 
I think that you believe in veins (no opinion here) which applies confirmation bias to your mindset while mining. This would give you a skewed impression of what is happening around you.

Next run: Plot down the cords of all your finds and your position . Stand still when you bomb. If you do see the same pattern while doing that, then you should do further investigation.

First.. i never run while bombing. And i would be happy to show you how i track the veins one day when i go mining again as I'm right now hunting a bit.

I know "veins" or whatever you want to call them exists (in my definition of a vein). But to explain what a vein is in my opinion.. A vein is like a string of pearls where you have one deposit next to the other within a certain distance, they can consist of both enmatter and ore. I have seen the original veins (which was bugged and way to easy to follow, and which was later fixed) which had a certain distance between each claim and that distance is still the same today and has been since beta.

Here are a few good examples of what i call a vein and also a cluster.
vPiFful.jpg

These i can follow and as i said basically stand on top of the claim on most drops.

Could i be confirmation biased, sure i could but i think it's a bit to much of a coincidence that if i'm able to follow a vein and basically stand on top of each claim as i know the average distance between them but then after that run the vein pattern is completely different.

Sure there might be more than one pattern to the veins and how they spawn but still it's strange that i always find that second pattern which is much harder to follow after 1 or 2 good runs.

And to the other in the thread who can't keep a proper discussion I'll just not answer.
 
Whats going on lately with these kind of threads? Everything is focused on peds and dollars, profits and loses. It seems everybody forgot how to have fun in a video game.

Think I'm taking a small vacation from forums before I get infected, for my own good.

:(

It's not about profit or loss. It's about MA gaming their players and IF they do that it's highly unethical and they could probably be sued into bankruptcy. That's also why King responded so fast to this type of claim as they knew they would loose if this was the case.
 
First.. i never run while bombing. And i would be happy to show you how i track the veins one day when i go mining again as I'm right now hunting a bit.

I know "veins" or whatever you want to call them exists (in my definition of a vein). But to explain what a vein is in my opinion.. A vein is like a string of pearls where you have one deposit next to the other within a certain distance, they can consist of both enmatter and ore. I have seen the original veins (which was bugged and way to easy to follow, and which was later fixed) which had a certain distance between each claim and that distance is still the same today and has been since beta.

Here are a few good examples of what i call a vein and also a cluster.
vPiFful.jpg

These i can follow and as i said basically stand on top of the claim on most drops.

Could i be confirmation biased, sure i could but i think it's a bit to much of a coincidence that if i'm able to follow a vein and basically stand on top of each claim as i know the average distance between them but then after that run the vein pattern is completely different.

Sure there might be more than one pattern to the veins and how they spawn but still it's strange that i always find that second pattern which is much harder to follow after 1 or 2 good runs.

And to the other in the thread who can't keep a proper discussion I'll just not answer.

First: Regarding bias, it was not meant as an insult. We all get biased and it was only recently that I read up on it and realized how much our brains trick us.

OnT:

Those are indeed good examples. But what you would need here is something like at least ten consecutive runs logged so that you can show that the patterns really exist. I know it might seem like a bit of work, but if you do that and we see the patterns, I promise to repeat the experiment under your guidelines.

I am hard to convince, but if you can do such an experiment, I will replicate it in order to collect data to prove or disprove your theory.
 
That's also why King responded so fast to this type of claim as they knew they would loose if this was the case.

must have missed something, who is King?
 
If you are dropping bombs in a pattern, then on good runs where you find lots of claims, you are going to show the claims in a pattern. It's not a sign that there are veins, they're just being found in the same pattern that you're dropping.

The reason this vein idea breaks down is because when you are not finding a lot of claims, suddenly the finds don't look like veins.

If you dropped randomly, the finds would look random.

If you dropped in a straight line, the finds would like like they were in a straight line.
 
First: Regarding bias, it was not meant as an insult. We all get biased and it was only recently that I read up on it and realized how much our brains trick us.

OnT:

Those are indeed good examples. But what you would need here is something like at least ten consecutive runs logged so that you can show that the patterns really exist. I know it might seem like a bit of work, but if you do that and we see the patterns, I promise to repeat the experiment under your guidelines.

I am hard to convince, but if you can do such an experiment, I will replicate it in order to collect data to prove or disprove your theory.

Didn't take it as an insult so all good.
I got quite a few more older logs but it's better to make new ones, using lbml :)

must have missed something, who is King?
King is the maker of candy crush saga etc, mobile games.

If you are dropping bombs in a pattern, then on good runs where you find lots of claims, you are going to show the claims in a pattern. It's not a sign that there are veins, they're just being found in the same pattern that you're dropping.

The reason this vein idea breaks down is because when you are not finding a lot of claims, suddenly the finds don't look like veins.

If you dropped randomly, the finds would look random.

If you dropped in a straight line, the finds would like like they were in a straight line.

I most often always find lots of claims, it's just the pattern that differs but still using the same technique to mine.
And as for them not looking like veins they still do, distance between claims are the same etc it's only the pattern that changes.
 
If you are dropping bombs in a pattern, then on good runs where you find lots of claims, you are going to show the claims in a pattern. It's not a sign that there are veins, they're just being found in the same pattern that you're dropping.

The reason this vein idea breaks down is because when you are not finding a lot of claims, suddenly the finds don't look like veins.

If you dropped randomly, the finds would look random.

If you dropped in a straight line, the finds would like like they were in a straight line.

I really have to disagree here about the patterns. I took Vi out last night on a mining run to one of my favorite spots and we were able to follow the claims and discern a very visible pattern to the line of claims. I did this with him in two different area so there is a "vein theory" that works IMO. Vi has the screenshots of the waypoints to the claims we got. We went out and he did the dropping while i just told him where to make the drops. Not sure how many times he would move off about 30 or 40 meters from where i would tell him to drop and make his own and I was standing within 10 meters of where the claim would pop up. Still not exactly sure how it worked out but he was amazed by it. Oh and coincidentally this was on a 45 ped run and our hit rate was close to 75% searching for both ores and enatters. Now to test this theory on some indoor mining soon.
 
That is a very aggressive and destructive charge you are asserting on Mindark and quite possibly the health of the game over a theory.. one of which that is quite weak especially if someone mines over your "vein". You also neglect resource caps.

Becareful of what you assert. You aren't helping anyone here. Mindark isn't in the business of fraud and theft, contrary to popular opinion.
 
That is a very aggressive and destructive charge you are asserting on Mindark and quite possibly the health of the game over a theory.. one of which that is quite weak especially if someone mines over your "vein". You also neglect resource caps.

Becareful of what you assert. You aren't helping anyone here. Mindark isn't in the business of fraud and theft, contrary to popular opinion.

True that it is an aggressive charge, but if it's true it's bad, but i also said that there could be another reason to why it happens. Resource caps should not have anything to do with it as one would just get another resource. But yes if someone does mine over the vein and make a gap there would be a gap, but it's not likely to be in the form of zigzagging veins.

But i'll do more tests and see what happens.
 
It seems that they may change how the system works in regards to how much knowledge you have
on how the system works.

It takes an XXII ego to think "they're changing the system for me because I'm sooo smart". :lolup:

Actually, mining subtly changed for everyone back in September (or even earlier), when claims very close to the drop point became much more common than before. And you're about the last one to notice.
 
It takes an XXII ego to think "they're changing the system for me because I'm sooo smart". :lolup:

Actually, mining subtly changed for everyone back in September (or even earlier), when claims very close to the drop point became much more common than before. And you're about the last one to notice.

well i've been close to the claims for the last years. So not really a change for me.
 
How many years have we heard that EU is "dynamic"? Things change and are meant to change its part of the game and in my opinion to be expected. I've figured out ways to make some profit over the years within the game dynamic but it never really lasted for long so it kept me searching for new ways to play. Maybe the "dynamics" of EU just caught up with your style of play? I don't think its nefarious on their part but given MA's history it doesn't surprise me they would make changes.
 
Dunno about veins, but long ago when Hades was a creepy city I used to go there for oil and lyst, and if I hit two claims then I'd try in a line either end a short distance away and more often than not end up with a line of claims four or five long...pretty much a straight line. Seemed to work so I kept doing it, back then Legion was posting about veins too. Maybe they once did exist, maybe it was an illusion of chance. Maybe they changed the system sometime. It definitely looked and worked like veins back in the day though, easy to see them when there were so many large flat areas compared to now too.

Personally I'm more peeved about shrapnel in loot, that's a proper piss take. As in worthless pocket change, which is what shrapnel is here. Less items with markup in loot, you use that chunk of loot before you finish the hunt most likely so it diminishes to zero mostly leaving you with less to compensate your expenses. A 100 ped global would probably mostly be items or loot with markup, now half of it or more can be schrapnel which you'll use and has no markup...so you come home after a longer hunt but poorer. Even if those extra shots get you more loot it will contain the same and it will be used up the same way until you run out. Clever as hell.
 
Dunno about veins, but long ago when Hades was a creepy city I used to go there for oil and lyst, and if I hit two claims then I'd try in a line either end a short distance away and more often than not end up with a line of claims four or five long...pretty much a straight line. Seemed to work so I kept doing it, back then Legion was posting about veins too. Maybe they once did exist, maybe it was an illusion of chance. Maybe they changed the system sometime. It definitely looked and worked like veins back in the day though, easy to see them when there were so many large flat areas compared to now too.

Personally I'm more peeved about shrapnel in loot, that's a proper piss take. As in worthless pocket change, which is what shrapnel is here. Less items with markup in loot, you use that chunk of loot before you finish the hunt most likely so it diminishes to zero mostly leaving you with less to compensate your expenses. A 100 ped global would probably mostly be items or loot with markup, now half of it or more can be schrapnel which you'll use and has no markup...so you come home after a longer hunt but poorer. Even if those extra shots get you more loot it will contain the same and it will be used up the same way until you run out. Clever as hell.

I don't know but my latest bigger globals have consisted of a lunchbox (80PED), a DOA at 200 PED, UL MF chip, marcorps at full tt, full tt blp rifle I forgot name of and so on and so forth.

Yes, I actually had a 30 PED sharpnell global today with a full tt low level powerfist but other than that there has not been that much sharpnell in loot for me.
 
You are lucky or I'm unlucky then. :)

Thing is, we always had ammo in loot, so why bother? It's loot that removes the market and will be worth 101% max if you change it to ammo. Not much ammo will be TTd so not much shrapnel will be either. People I have talked to have looted decent L weapons in HOFs that were half full TT value and the rest mainly shrapnel...that sucks doesn't it?
 
Loot-Vein is a dancer, it's a soul's companion
You can feel it everywhere
Lift your hands and voices, free your mind and join us
You can feel it in the earth

Ooh, it's a passion
Ooh, you can feel it in the earth
Ooh, it's a passion, ooh
 
People I have talked to have looted decent L weapons in HOFs that were half full TT value and the rest mainly shrapnel...that sucks doesn't it?

Agree, this gives a bad taste.
If global is hit 200 PED TT and you get an item that could have 350 PED Full TT, it doesn´t make sense to drop it with 100 PED value on it and fill the rest with ammo+shrapnel. It should drop with the full 200 PED TT of the global.

Other thing, if Full TT of the item dropped is less than total amount of the global, no problem if the rest is all ammo.
 
How many years have we heard that EU is "dynamic"? Things change and are meant to change its part of the game and in my opinion to be expected. I've figured out ways to make some profit over the years within the game dynamic but it never really lasted for long so it kept me searching for new ways to play. Maybe the "dynamics" of EU just caught up with your style of play? I don't think its nefarious on their part but given MA's history it doesn't surprise me they would make changes.

That the game is dynamic.. it sure is, however it seems strange that it always change after a good run or two. If it was dynamic it would change more randomly and not switch between two different states. And that MA makes changes is a given, but the system has basically not changed since they fixed the bugged veins.
 
Its a fatal mistake to bend the facts towards the theory, instead of the theory towards the facts!

-Sherlock Holmes
 
But knowing MA and their former CEO from the time i was an intern there, this in my eyes would be exactly something MA might do.

You were an intern at Mindark?
 
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