Developer Notes #10 - Galactic Transport

forgo said:

This is good news and potentially bad news. I Personally like the idea alot, especially with the transport missions.

I would hope the missions are for warp ship owners only, and that crates could only be gathered/transported by those ships, in order to maintain the value of investments many players have in their ship. Perhaps SI will impact capacity as well.

If quads who shoot a larger vessel down but cannot pick up a crate, it would deter alot of fears. I am ok with pirates being able to come in and gather the booty to redeem just the same as the original mission taker in that case, because they would have to invest a bit as well in the larger ship, and would be just as open to retaliatory attacks.

SI and gunners all of a sudden matter.
If quads or smaller can carry these packages...then this would be devastating to space.

The effect on the auction is a concern.

Many lazy auction bots and alts will just buy up goods on the spot for already depleted auction houses, place orders, get a package no matter what never having to move an inch. And the largest market will see almost everything...inflated, that now needs to travel back home for crafting things other than caly (L) prints all day long.

Another cool idea though looking forward to it.

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I do not see a Problem when you can do this kind of mission with small ships too.
Size of ship determines amount of crates.
For Example:
quad: 1
privateer:100
Mothership:1000

Also they could add some kind of bonus when deliverd by warp.

I have a baaad feeling about this update. As a miner that mines a lot on other places then just Calypso...i wonder what will be the fee on stackable stuff...i mean somone buying gun for +7k will have no problem, but the fee for a 1k caldorite will be 10x bigger then for a gun or armor so noone will buy it or i will have to undercut the cheapest stack of that material quite a bit

If i will be unable to logg out in MS, they will have to seriosly try to protect my stuff(many ppl transport 5-10k in TT np)...that means they will need ppl repairing the ship, ppl behind the cannons, or some quads protecting them as well cause pirates will just read the schedule and team up. The fee MS owners ask will surely go up and a lot cause of it . MA is listening to ppl thats true...but they are "bending" their ideas in their favor so dont let them fool you ppl

Granny Rowan said:

Quote from the dev notes...
It will still be possible to transport goods and resources through space in the current manner, though changes will be made in upcoming Version Updates to address currently existing issues and loopholes that allow for risk-free transport of goods and materials through space

So yeh.. removing log-off.. so choice is pay the fee for cargo box, from which MA doubtless gets a cut and then a further fee to get self to planet you are sending it to, in order to collect it.

So buyer pays for item, AH fee, transport fee for the box and personal transport costs.. this improves interplanetary trade how exactly ?

and more importantly how do MA intend to deal with a no log-off situation, are they tying the avatar and the loots to the ship, so that it can be looted if shot down, whether or not they are in game ?
How do they deal with a CTD.. which could in fact be caused by in-game lag or bug ? will they re-imburse for losses.. somehow I think that would be a NO
How will they determine how long the persons loots are vulnerable.. just to the ship docks... to the end of the day.... next week ????? How many warps will that person be vulnerable for if for instance a winter storm causes power failure, or the PC dies ?

I have yet to see any rational explanation from MA on how you determine if a person has logged off intentionally or had ctd or power fail or any other situation beyond their control

Don't get me wrong I am not against the idea of my having to use my skills and ship to defend the travellers and their loots, I actually enjoy engaging with pirates and have had a lot of success.
I would have no problem if MA could ensure perfect connections at all times, but I would hate to see people lose their hard earned ped because of things they have no control of.

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My first tough was:
vulnerable until the ship reaches the next not-lootable area.
On next login you will be at that area.

Could be a problem when this is a space station in the middle of space.


Other idea:
You can select one or more target location.
You will be stay on the ship until it reaches one of the target locations.

Sounds good to me, the execution always seems to be a bit different than it sounds at first. Cross fingers.

Sounds amazing! points to MA for this

It might make space more interesting, it might help peds flow better on beginning planets, but let's be clear here... this VU will take fees from crafters and other players and give those peds to pirates.

Whether it turns out good or bad depends on the implementation -- the fees, the balancing of skills, cargo weight and ship capacity, and the other changes that happen to space (increased gameplay there).

I am also concerned about the disconnect between the transport service and the actual goods. It sounds to me like the only point of carrying boxes is to get mission rewards... not to transport actual goods through space... those are automagically transported to the buyer when they pay the peds. To me that just seems a little too Mickey Mouse for Entropia. I have suggested a transport business in the past, but not one that funds piracy via auction fees. I admit, though, it is a difficult problem to solve due to the RCE, and because any solution would be easy to exploit.

XxSandManxX said:

....

If i will be unable to logg out in MS, they will have to seriosly try to protect my stuff(many ppl transport 5-10k in TT np)...that means they will need ppl repairing the ship, ppl behind the cannons, or some quads protecting them as well cause pirates will just read the schedule and team up. The fee MS owners ask will surely go up and a lot cause of it . MA is listening to ppl thats true...but they are "bending" their ideas in their favor so dont let them fool you ppl

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Read my sig.
I have been saying this for a long time and its especially true now this "loophole" looks like at last it will be finally closed.
I doubt MS transport fees will rise, they may even get cheaper , we will see.

Future prediction - Normandie gets ATH'd the first week.



What I cant tell, is how this is going to turn out... could be good if the fee's are high enough to keep warp a necessary option.

the logistics of hiring, and paying a crew is going to be insane... Personally I dont see it being profitable the way things are unless these crates have one HELL OF A PAYOUT.

Think about the cost to shoot down 10 quads attacking, thats 3-7 shots with no misses at 1ped a shot using the ms cannons. Even if you shot down the quads with quads, thats still 5-7ped per quad you need to shoot down.

THEN they respawn and come back for the second wave, or worse they just keep coming because they are re-spawning and repairing on a nearby capital ship.


In my opinion if they want to work this kind of concept they need to set a weight limit period, for all vessels. Not just for cargo box's but make it to-ware pirates in quads cant take all the loots because they dont have the room to storage it all. So THEY have to invest for a mothership or something like like that in order to get the full hauls major cargo ships or carrier type ships can hold.

i dont get why so many players welcome this ?
no way im traveling with 30-40k stackables after run on another planet without be able to logoff in space

serious grinders will stop grinding on other planets then caly now(but maybe thats the whole intentioon anyway )

and for those that say i can list on say arkadia,depending on fees the stuff will probably never gets sold,so effectively ma is killing off grinding on other planets

fluske said:

i dont get why so many players welcome this ?
no way im traveling with 30-40k stackables after run on another planet without be able to logoff in space

serious grinders will stop grinding on other planets then caly now(but maybe thats the whole intentioon anyway )

and for those that say i can list on say arkadia,depending on fees the stuff will probably never gets sold,so effectively ma is killing off grinding on other planets

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Don't worry, once they make the other planets like caly with the ammo and shrapnel, then you won't have any stacks Just items.

fluske said:

i dont get why so many players welcome this ?
no way im traveling with 30-40k stackables after run on another planet without be able to logoff in space

serious grinders will stop grinding on other planets then caly now(but maybe thats the whole intentioon anyway )

and for those that say i can list on say arkadia,depending on fees the stuff will probably never gets sold,so effectively ma is killing off grinding on other planets

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Other planets are direct competition to MA! Of course they are trying to kill the competition! I've been saying this for years!

Sunsout Gunsout said:

Don't worry, once they make the other planets like caly with the ammo and shrapnel, then you won't have any stacks Just items.

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Then again what if this is the overall plan? Kind of makes sense now. If you want any good loot then you need to go to other planets. Of course the loot balance on Calypso could be all messed up but then again is it?

OMG I have a cash cow! Thank you so much MA. Privateer and Mothership owners are going to make a fortune doing these missions, especially if you have a high SI on your ship ! Thank you MA n

fluske said:

i dont get why so many players welcome this ?
no way im traveling with 30-40k stackables after run on another planet without be able to logoff in space

serious grinders will stop grinding on other planets then caly now(but maybe thats the whole intentioon anyway )

and for those that say i can list on say arkadia,depending on fees the stuff will probably never gets sold,so effectively ma is killing off grinding on other planets

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No, it means you can still use the Privateers and Motherships with high SI as per normal, which is quite safe. This really encourages the Mothership and Privateer owners to make their ships as safe as possible.

I think this will actually help other planets to develop vibrant auctions and activity, as less people will be willing to risk transporting huge amounts of resources planet to planet.

Ship owners will see a fall in custom short term i guess, but as transport fee is linked to weight most stackables would still go via warp (at a big risk ofc for carrier). Also the crates they describe and haulage missions i guess will make up for shortfall initially to ship owners.

Note to self: Consolidate all stackables on caly before lockdown..

The losers in this i guess will be those who still have low SI ships, but those who have invested in SI should do ok i think. Still with large stacks the risk now will put off many from transporting as they have been.

morgoth said:

Future prediction - Normandie gets ATH'd the first week.



What I cant tell, is how this is going to turn out... could be good if the fee's are high enough to keep warp a necessary option.

the logistics of hiring, and paying a crew is going to be insane... Personally I dont see it being profitable the way things are unless these crates have one HELL OF A PAYOUT.

Think about the cost to shoot down 10 quads attacking, thats 3-7 shots with no misses at 1ped a shot using the ms cannons. Even if you shot down the quads with quads, thats still 5-7ped per quad you need to shoot down.

THEN they respawn and come back for the second wave, or worse they just keep coming because they are re-spawning and repairing on a nearby capital ship.


In my opinion if they want to work this kind of concept they need to set a weight limit period, for all vessels. Not just for cargo box's but make it to-ware pirates in quads cant take all the loots because they dont have the room to storage it all. So THEY have to invest for a mothership or something like like that in order to get the full hauls major cargo ships or carrier type ships can hold.

Click to expand...

I'd like to see a ship capable of being over-encumbered... too many passengers, too much stuff, etc.

Norbert said:

I think this will actually help other planets to develop vibrant auctions and activity, as less people will be willing to risk transporting huge amounts of resources planet to planet.

"Ship owners will see a fall in custom short term i guess, but as transport fee is linked to weight most stackables would still go via warp (at a big risk ofc for carrier). Also the crates they describe and haulage missions i guess will make up for shortfall initially to ship owners."

Note to self: Consolidate all stackables on caly before lockdown..

The losers in this i guess will be those who still have low SI ships, but those who have invested in SI should do ok i think. Still with large stacks the risk now will put off many from transporting as they have been.

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I think some people are missing the 400 pound gorilla:

The transport fees collected for the Normal and Instant Delivery options will be held in a special transport fee pool. In a subsequent Version Update, transport missions will be made available that can be claimed by spaceship pilots via a queue system that incorporates the available transport fee pool, pilot skills, time limitations, and ship cargo capacities.

Only the auction is changing in VU 15.1. The other changes will be sometime after, just like land lots and citizenship from CLD's.

All the discussion about the impact of the transport missions and the 'fixes to space' is moot.

You get smacked in the face by the stick, but the carrot never appears.

I am one of the people who have asked for some of these features to be introduced so I am reluctant to take a negative stance when MA listens to feedback and acts. Obviously there are going to be winners and losers with any major change to the economic landscape and some players are better equipped to adapt to unexpected change. I am particularly mindful of players such as Afroman who have just completed setup of a new business based on the current situation only to have the rug pulled out.

Personally I am very happy to see the implementation of universal bidding. I have often been in the situation that I have been unable to take advantage of some auctions for items I needed because I was simply unable to be on the other planet at the time the auction was finishing. That there are also options for paid transport of my goods is an added bonus. I am almost always in favour of increased choices in game play.

As a seller of stuff in auction and non-caly shops I am going to wait and see the impact rather than prejudge it. I can visualise several ways this can play out, depending on fee structures, player reactions. Some times the best thing you can do is be observant and put yourself in a position to react to change as it develops. I still think we really need separated MU history for each planet and I don't think I have seen a commitment to introduce that feature. Also I hope that the auction UI will include the ability to filter by planet so I can easily find local goods.

I can see that the change will pose a significant challenge to warp ship owners. It is likely that less goods will be physically transported. Ship owners are going to have to give serious thought to defenses and how they include risk management into their fee structure. However, the transport missions (once they are introduced) will help. It gives ship owners and opportunity to cash in on the players use of automagic transport of purchases without putting players purchases at risk and, unlike some posters, I am fine with decoupling the value of the missions from the actual goods, instead relying on the size of the transport fee pool. Sounds like it will be quite exciting for people who like that sort of thing.

I have no interest in how it impacts pirates or what they think of the change.

Few Scars said:

No, it means you can still use the Privateers and Motherships with high SI as per normal, which is quite safe. This really encourages the Mothership and Privateer owners to make their ships as safe as possible.

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No ship out there is safe to transport 30-40k worth of stackables. I wouldn't even take 2k on one without logout as an option, it would be safer to use a quad which can't be warp-mined. To the pilots of warp ships, removing log out might make space more "fun" but that's only because they're not risking their own peds. I guess time will tell if anyone will put their money where their mouth is and insure the stackables of their passengers.

Of course a strong ship fully manned will charge a very high fee (none out there are adequately manned atm). And say goodbye to a safe VIP flight... how long does it take to get 20 crew members all online at once? Yeah, I would not like to try and organize that.

It will be a big problem for those of us who transport large amounts of stackables through space. I know I will have to stop using privateer and mothership services completely when they become unsafe, IMO there's really no point to MSs after that except for repair skilling. I've already been on the "strongest ship yada yada" when it was killed in space. I had significant loot on me and after going through that once I won't risk it again, it's not worth it for any person with a business in game to take that risk.

So space will essentially cut off interplanetary transport of resources, diverting trade away from the warp ships into the Auction House. The fee structure will be what determines how "separate" the economies will be.

Gotta love the brains behind MA

They give u a carrot to see and a pinch together. Interesting development for sure. I, for one feel this is gonna be great for pirates primarily. Quite honestly, I don't see it helping promote interplanetary trade in the least as the risk of getting looted is quite high on whatever SI ship u travel with. However, this was needed as log off option on the ships rendered space a namesake rather then an actual barrier.

The true mettle of the alliances/services will be tested as both sides will need to gear up, the pirates to launch offensives whereas the services to counter the offensives. Overall it will be good for space as more action will pop up there. However for people who travel to other planets, this is gonna get tougher. This will lead to bigger opportunities as well for those willing to take the risk.

Overall though, I think the privateer owners have not yet fathomed or grasped the reality of the change. The mission and boxes are just the carrot u have dangling over the sword. This is gonna render a lot more ships incapable of service but on another hand can lead to more alliances being formed to keep the pirates of there back.

Interesting times ahead.

Neil Stockton said:

No ship out there is safe to transport 30-40k worth of stackables. I wouldn't even take 2k on one without logout as an option, it would be safer to use a quad which can't be warp-mined. To the pilots of warp ships, removing log out might make space more "fun" but that's only because they're not risking their own peds. I guess time will tell if anyone will put their money where their mouth is and insure the stackables of their passengers.

Of course a strong ship fully manned will charge a very high fee (none out there are adequately manned atm). And say goodbye to a safe VIP flight... how long does it take to get 20 crew members all online at once? Yeah, I would not like to try and organize that.

It will be a big problem for those of us who transport large amounts of stackables through space. I know I will have to stop using privateer and mothership services completely when they become unsafe, IMO there's really no point to MSs after that except for repair skilling. I've already been on the "strongest ship yada yada" when it was killed in space. I had significant loot on me and after going through that once I won't risk it again, it's not worth it for any person with a business in game to take that risk.

So space will essentially cut off interplanetary transport of resources, diverting trade away from the warp ships into the Auction House. The fee structure will be what determines how "separate" the economies will be.

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It is a very big gamble for a pirate to take on a Mothership or Privateer with SI above the 40000 point mark. They need to spends a lot of Ped in ammo and their needs to be more than one. Nebula Virus isn't organised so at worst you may see two of their QUADs. If they use a warp mine, most high SI MS and privateers have enough SI to make it safely to a space station nearby. Now this incentive has come into play things will be very interesting.

Few Scars said:

It is a very big gamble for a pirate to take on a Mothership or Privateer with SI above the 40000 point mark. They need to spends a lot of Ped in ammo and their needs to be more than one. Nebula Virus isn't organised so at worst you may see two of their QUADs. If they use a warp mine, most high SI MS and privateers have enough SI to make it safely to a space station nearby. Now this incentive has come into play things will be very interesting.

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Till now the incentive for the pirates to stay organised was not there. With this change u will see an incentive for them as well. You are assuming the scenario will remain same but it won't. With logoff gone the number of pirates can increase multiple times and not just nebula but a lot more pirate socs/groups can spring up if it turns out a profitable venture. Right now they dont need to organise and hence u dont see it. With the log off gone, the need will be there and peds will draw them all together.

Of course this is my assumption and i could be wrong too.

Neil Stockton said:

No ship out there is safe to transport 30-40k worth of stackables. I wouldn't even take 2k on one without logout as an option, it would be safer to use a quad which can't be warp-mined. To the pilots of warp ships, removing log out might make space more "fun" but that's only because they're not risking their own peds. I guess time will tell if anyone will put their money where their mouth is and insure the stackables of their passengers.

Of course a strong ship fully manned will charge a very high fee (none out there are adequately manned atm). And say goodbye to a safe VIP flight... how long does it take to get 20 crew members all online at once? Yeah, I would not like to try and organize that.

It will be a big problem for those of us who transport large amounts of stackables through space. I know I will have to stop using privateer and mothership services completely when they become unsafe, IMO there's really no point to MSs after that except for repair skilling. I've already been on the "strongest ship yada yada" when it was killed in space. I had significant loot on me and after going through that once I won't risk it again, it's not worth it for any person with a business in game to take that risk.

So space will essentially cut off interplanetary transport of resources, diverting trade away from the warp ships into the Auction House. The fee structure will be what determines how "separate" the economies will be.

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I have 35k ped of stackables and want to move to the next planet with it.

1. contact a vip warp service.
2. Accept summons to ship
3. Second window pops up, "you have 35,xxx ped of lootable materials, do you wish to ship it for xx amount of peds, check it into SHIP NAME storage for the flight (warning if the ship's SI is destroyed your container may be lost), or cancel your summons request to space?"
4.a. You answer Ship for xx fee and select the planet you want it delivered to.
4.b. You answer Check onto SHIP NAME with me.
4.c. You cancel and remain on planet.
5. You appear in the hanger of the ship and are warped to your destination.
6.a. If you shiped for xx ped - you fly or tp down from station and collect your materials from storage (or shipping office) which has arrived ahead of you.
6.b. If you checked your loot aboard SHIP NAME then you can retrieve it when you teleport off of the ship. (ship owner has option of offloading container at station where you can pick it up later in cases where you are unable to stay online but they dont want the risk of your loot being with the ship for further flights.


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2 possible ways of doing this,
1. Only non auction transporting is only avaliable through warp ship interfaces. (funnels profit towards investors)
2. Non Auction Transporting is avaliable through Warp ship Interfaces, Station interfaces, as well as Shipping offices located on planet.


If you choose to take the loot with you on the ship, there is no fee, but it is riskier.
If you choose to use the paid transportation, it is funneled into the same mission interface that auction is and remains a risk free option for traders/miners/crafters/hunters.

narfi said:

2 possible ways of doing this,
1. Only non auction transporting is only avaliable through warp ship interfaces. (funnels profit towards investors)
2. Non Auction Transporting is avaliable through Warp ship Interfaces, Station interfaces, as well as Shipping offices located on planet.


If you choose to take the loot with you on the ship, there is no fee, but it is riskier.
If you choose to use the paid transportation, it is funneled into the same mission interface that auction is and remains a risk free option for traders/miners/crafters/hunters.

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I dont think either of the scenarios is how MA has this planned as there is no mention of any interface where u can transport goods yourself by paying a fee. According to OP, you

a. Either put ur stuff on AH and it sells in which case the buyer needs to either travel or wait for a period of time ( some peds) or have it express delivered ( more peds). The peds collected is then assigned to mission boxes which the MS/privateers can choose to transport for peds/mission points and skills. These are lootable of course and if the ship is blown off this is lost along with goods carried by any other passengers.

b. You travel through MS or whatever and risk your goods with the MS/privateer without paying any extra fees. If the ship blows you lose your stuff and the ship loses the mission boxes as well if it had any.

Divinity said:

a. Either put ur stuff on AH and it sells in which case the buyer needs to either travel or wait for a period of time ( some peds) or have it express delivered ( more peds). The peds collected is then assigned to mission boxes which the MS/privateers can choose to transport for peds/mission points and skills. These are lootable of course and if the ship is blown off this is lost along with goods carried by any other passengers.

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Impossible or it will be exploited, and you can kiss any reliable market history good bye.

BRAVO MA!!!!

Hmmm seems some people have the reason why pirates dont attack motherships confused at the moment.

1 - soon as the attack begins you have 20-30 seconds before anyone that was online probably logs off and makes you waist all your ammo shooting down a high SI ship.

2 - With reason 1 in play, the odds of coming out ahead popping motherships isn't very high at the moment since most know to log out now, and service providers make a big effort to get people to log out to keep them safe (except some ships that think there SI makes them invincible)



Now with this change, EVERYTHING changes involving ms combat.


Now if a pirate warp mines you near caly TG, they can keep coming in waves after repairing, and the game isn't over till you make it to the save zone, and pass the 20 second docking time.

Yes... this means ships with 150k SI are just like lvl1000 event mobs, just a matter of time till enough hunters pop enough ped into it to make it pop. Especially if the gunners are just mob hunters, and cant land hits on maneuvering quads


For safe transport people will need a team, not just a ship. Need rk-20 repair crew, will need gunners, quads, fking privateer escort would be awesome too. At the moment I can only think of one service rounded enough to do this, and thats because it has always stood against piracy in far more then just words.


My tip for people that consider risking moving goods after this update is do lots of research on the team you hire, and remember this above all about space.


Skill points matter very little compared to personal skill aiming and timing your shots to land. Who has the highest level shouldn't even be a consideration.

DavinFelth said:

Hah! How come every time they respond to what we say or ask for, I'm amazed?!

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They actually do things listed in and talked about on forums and wish list threads fairly often, there just isn't a developer note about it most of the times.

Well at this point even pirates can make the mission to deliver the cargo boxes...No need to shotdown MS...I don't think Nebula Virus attack themselfs...

The more i think about it, the more confused i get myself regarding how this will affect economies.

If done by weight, i am guessing that stackables from AH from another planet will not be a feasible option. (maybe the odd rare ore). In the old days stackables were never bought from asteroid to caly, cause it was not a feasible option, and i cannot see that changing.

So therefore transport will be the only viable option really. If there is no 100% gaurantee safe travel i cannot see people transporting stackables. (or not many anyways)

Therefore i foresee an initial market response.....trading of stackables between planets will stop.

Now i have no idea how this will affect the local economies. As stackables is the driving force of each planets economies, everything manufactured requires stackables. In some cases it could force those that usually transport all their goods back to caly, now instead need to use (as example) arkadias auction.

So one possible scenario, that auction gets used a lot more in the local markets.

This is assuming that most stackables (or a fair chunk), currently gets transported back to caly.

Oh i don't know whats going to happen, i think MA need to be VERY careful about this.

Rgds

Ace