Developer Notes #10 - Galactic Transport

You have to realise the ability to log off and make your loot safe when travelling in space was not a feature , it was a loophole , bug , exploit , what ever you want to call it.

Now it is being removed we will have to adapt , and the ones who just relied upon this loophole , bug , exploit for their business model will have to upgrade certain things . The free lunch is over !
 
My question: What's happening with the bloody hangars?
maybe the interplanetary tp system with fees going to hanger owners will come back too? Just make it so that if you do that no items go with you... you tp nude so that it won't mess with the new auction system... or make it so that you can tp with your stuff but for a higher price than it'd cost to travel or use twice the auction fee price for every item on your avatar as part of the tp fee.
 
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Another plan :woot:

I will not hold my breath about it being implemented very well....
 
I don't think Nebula Virus attack themselfs...

You don't know pirates.

Your not going to make thousands or even hundreds of PED on the missions. I see that many have replied hoping that that might happen but that is just implausible.

Just look at the biggest missions planetside. Your getting about 0,10ped an hour in tt if you are super efficient. I see no reason why space would be different.

The thing is, they're going to have to make each delivery fee pretty high, in order to create a barrier between planets. It'll have to be more than 1 or 2% of the resource value. I'm guessing it will be ~5%. So for instance, you're on Toulan and you need 5000 ped of resources for a crafting run, you're going to be paying a couple hundred ped to get that delivered. This means a couple hundred ped incentive for pirates, and that adds up. It has to be a significant reward to offset the ammo spent and to separate economies.

It really looks like a decent update. But as usual devil is hidden in details. For myself I see a little problem. My crafting will be limited to 1 planet only because I travel with tones of stuff. I won't risk bigger amount of cash, neither won't be able to transport goods back and forth. It means other planets will suffer because the residue is available in bigger amounts only on Caly. How you guys seeing this aspect?

That's how I see it too. The transport fees will make it impractical for crafters to transport most resources between planets, except things that are rarer and you'd be willing to pay extra MU on. I also fear it will mean most crafters will now just stay on Calypso, resulting in depressed markets on other planets (miners will have to sell their universal materials 5% lower than calypso MV to be able to sell to the crafters). This will result in people not mining as much on other planets and those crafters dedicated to smaller planets will have even more problems finding the mats they need. Note though, all this depends on the actual amount of the transport fees. If it's only 1% or so, then there won't be much barrier, but I can't see MA setting it that low. It's a question of balance...

BUT MA, will you please add auction terminals to space stations???!!!

I agree.
 
You have to realise the ability to log off and make your loot safe when travelling in space was not a feature , it was a loophole , bug , exploit , what ever you want to call it.

Now it is being removed we will have to adapt , and the ones who just relied upon this loophole , bug , exploit for their business model will have to upgrade certain things . The free lunch is over !

4 years to fix a crucial PVP "bug", yeah right.

Though this change will be a problem for my mining business and miners in general, it may make space more interesting again. IMO space was best in the days before motherships were effective, when we would smuggle loot through space safely in fleets of quads. Time consuming but a lot of teamwork and fun (at least for the casual player who isn't trying to do real business on a schedule).
 
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DYO6X.gif


>o.o<
 
You don't know pirates.



The thing is, they're going to have to make each delivery fee pretty high, in order to create a barrier between planets. It'll have to be more than 1 or 2% of the resource value. I'm guessing it will be ~5%. So for instance, you're on Toulan and you need 5000 ped of resources for a crafting run, you're going to be paying a couple hundred ped to get that delivered. This means a couple hundred ped incentive for pirates, and that adds up. It has to be a significant reward to offset the ammo spent and to separate economies.



That's how I see it too. The transport fees will make it impractical for crafters to transport most resources between planets, except things that are rarer and you'd be willing to pay extra MU on. I also fear it will mean most crafters will now just stay on Calypso, resulting in depressed markets on other planets (miners will have to sell their universal materials 5% lower than calypso MV to be able to sell to the crafters). This will result in people not mining as much on other planets and those crafters dedicated to smaller planets will have even more problems finding the mats they need. Note though, all this depends on the actual amount of the transport fees. If it's only 1% or so, then there won't be much barrier, but I can't see MA setting it that low. It's a question of balance...



I agree.

Nah, still don't think so.

The auction fees will go into a pool for the missions, however, the missions will be pseudo transportation. Let's wait and see but I don't think people should expect it to be lucrative at all.
 
You have to realise the ability to log off and make your loot safe when travelling in space was not a feature , it was a loophole , bug , exploit , what ever you want to call it.

Now it is being removed we will have to adapt , and the ones who just relied upon this loophole , bug , exploit for their business model will have to upgrade certain things . The free lunch is over !

You can call it bug or exploit whatever... The thing is, crafters will adapt but it is planet partners who probably will suffer mostly - (at least this is how as understand those futures).
 
It's already a long thread with long posts and lots of good stuff - both the positives and the reservations people have.

I just want to add a basic belief I have:
it is good if there is more than one way to achieve a goal in the game!
This is because different people put a different weight (importance) on different elements, so more people can find ways of doing what suits them best if there are more pathways.
What has to be balanced is that one pathway should not clearly be the best - and thus used by all who have a particular aim. Balancing loops can create fluctuations in how good an option may be at a particular time.

In this case we will now have more transportation methods between planets - one of which will now be absolutely safe by design, but at a cost which will fund space activity bonuses that will hopefully brighten up space opportunities.

In the new system we will see several changes I guess:

people will be more likely to try out other planets if the transport charges for goods are reasonable (the markets will be wider for both buying and selling).

There will be peds flowing from this into the missions, but fewer peds being risked in space directly. Pirates may turn more to missions as a better source of income.

It could be that there are more passengers for warp flights due to the opening up of the markets. One crucial factor will be whether almost anybody can accept a mission for a reasonable reward when they arrive at a destination. It may even encourage team VIPs - which could be an incentive for pirates again though.

What would fluctuate would then be the level of reward per mission, depending on how full the mission pool becomes, depending on how many missions are being accepted, or how long you must wait to get a mission maybe. There could be a massive difference in results here just from whether MA tells you the container value before you accept the mission (a bit like the cost of a random daily mission can be known in advance, but the reward is normally clear), or only informs you of the reward when you reach the destination (like instance box rewards). I think I prefer being told before... but it also depends on the implementation of queuing etc and how we wait for new offers.

Having a few theories about how the overall system may work will also provide lots of room for strategy, but also tears here. However, the pedflow looks clear-ish: extra auction fees all go up into space missions, and potentially more battles in space will transfer ammo peds straight to MA! Now if only we could all be friends, lower our costs, and increase our combined gains :wise:
 
I will not make any assumptions regarding the proposed change to space and transportation, ain´t really any point in doing that, the community has already brainstormed that part well enough in less than 24 hours. My problem is that once again Mindark makes a game changer and no friggin communication to clarify the many questions that have arisen (granted some things can not be disclosed due to the nature of the game) and of course not to forget that the most important part is left hanging as a future promise (transport missions). Will we have another half implemented system for years??? What was the point of the latest developer notes? They could as well just have had a pre VU update a couple of days before the release, instead of having a couple of weeks filled with assumptions and wild theories making no one the wiser. So space will become more complex, while not one word regarding new ships and equipment that should follow if the system will be more complex (ie, are all gunnery seats active, will there only be 1 ped shoots?, etc)

Mindark get a friggin community manager of sort!!!! Close to 2 weeks without a developer posting on the forum....
 
Overall, I really hope this doesn't hurt MS owners and the like. I really see it as a positive idea that can benefit everyone. I for one - had used the transport fee option in the past, but rarely. If they add fees to make it instant, etc - it could get more expensive than you want to pay.
I also have not used Motherships as a means to go off planet to get a gun or whatever and then fly back to the planet. So any use of transporting fee for items wouldn't change my use of MS.

My hope with the Cargo boxes will be a new "free to play" method to make it in this game. Not much peds? Buy yourself a quad, thruster, and some oil and go run cargo boxes. I don't see how if it was looted from a pirate that you would actually loose ped - just loose time and some oil.

I see this as - more options on getting goods from planet to planet and more option on things to do with space or make a profession, etc.

Like most have said - Devil is in the details. I don't like when MA says "in a future update..." their history shows this is often close to "when pigs fly":tongue2:
 
The devil is in the details. The way this will be good for me is if it allows me to stay on a planet other than Calypso and sell my loot through auction (mostly to people on Calypso). For that the transport auction fees need to be reasonable and transparent to the buyer.
 
:coffee: So.. its wait and see mode until we get the missions. Maybe I should start upgrading my ships SI again and, oh yes, how about enabling ALL of my ships guns? And maybe a weapon system that the pilot can use as well?
 
I hope MA make it right, not leave any places for exploiting.
For example, it will be interesting what happens if pirate loot some cargo boxes and decide to not return for the owner.. it will disappear in time or will be returned to auction or... leaved for pirate forever.. this would mean that pirate could write to owner pm and say, pay me 40% of the cargo value and you receive your goods or never see them again.. this would be like racketeering.. well, piracy and racketeering .. fits each other :)

second issue.. quad should not contain unlimited cargo boxes.. this would throw MS out of use..
I hope if MA took space in to consideration of improving, they also should think of adding more ships to use...
Now we have like big capitals and small dogfighters.. there is huge gap between these types that need to be filled..
just imagine..
small scout ship or probe send to space for looking of potential threat.
little bit larger than quad, corvette..
Missile or laser cruiser..
those units could be only for space, not for landing on planet
that would be enough for start, but never happen i think.. event it would bring new tactical possibilities for fighting at space, more money for MA, more enjoyment for players.
 
I hope MA make it right, not leave any places for exploiting.
For example, it will be interesting what happens if pirate loot some cargo boxes and decide to not return for the owner.. it will disappear in time or will be returned to auction or... leaved for pirate forever.. this would mean that pirate could write to owner pm and say, pay me 40% of the cargo value and you receive your goods or never see them again.. this would be like racketeering.. well, piracy and racketeering .. fits each other :)

I'm hoping that the cargo box will be 'stuck' in the quad until returned or looted again.
 
In the end, it will be the planet partners and players responsibility to make the most of this change. We worry about it funneling all traffic and commerce to Calypso but the other side of it is that is more opportunity for people to create residue or others on other planets. If this gives hunters and miners a bit more liberty to be on other planets, then they can also sell their Warez on that said planet and everyone benefits.

It is time for everyone to take a hard look at their business models.
 
[h=4]Developer Notes #10 - Galactic Transport[/h]
It will still be possible to transport goods and resources through space in the current manner, though changes will be made in upcoming Version Updates to address currently existing issues and loopholes that allow for risk-free transport of goods and materials through space.

So no more speed hack and auto aim /shoot z 3rd party progs ect ..?
 
I hope MA make it right, not leave any places for exploiting.
For example, it will be interesting what happens if pirate loot some cargo boxes and decide to not return for the owner.. it will disappear in time or will be returned to auction or... leaved for pirate forever.. this would mean that pirate could write to owner pm and say, pay me 40% of the cargo value and you receive your goods or never see them again.. this would be like racketeering.. well, piracy and racketeering .. fits each other :)

second issue.. quad should not contain unlimited cargo boxes.. this would throw MS out of use..
I hope if MA took space in to consideration of improving, they also should think of adding more ships to use...
Now we have like big capitals and small dogfighters.. there is huge gap between these types that need to be filled..
just imagine..
small scout ship or probe send to space for looking of potential threat.
little bit larger than quad, corvette..
Missile or laser cruiser..
those units could be only for space, not for landing on planet
that would be enough for start, but never happen i think.. event it would bring new tactical possibilities for fighting at space, more money for MA, more enjoyment for players.

You must not have read the original post. The boxes are only to claim a piece of the fees in the transport pool. It has absolutely no bearing on the buyer receiving the items.
 
I hope MA make it right, not leave any places for exploiting.
For example, it will be interesting what happens if pirate loot some cargo boxes and decide to not return for the owner.. ...

I dont think the looted cargo boxes will contain anything , they are just going to act as "mission tokens" which are handed in for a payment.
 
In the event of a box not getting handed in I'm guessing that they'll revert to the place where they started from.

But in that event we could see boxes held up for a long time if the transports taking them are shot down. If that happens a lot then we'll see people using the instant option and the whole system falls apart.
 
In the event of a box not getting handed in I'm guessing that they'll revert to the place where they started from.

But in that event we could see boxes held up for a long time if the transports taking them are shot down. If that happens a lot then we'll see people using the instant option and the whole system falls apart.


Umm the boxes don't need to be physically delivered to get the items between planets, they are used as incentives to cause activity in space and the fees obtained by cross planet auction transports funds the rewards for completing the missions.

Auction transports will happen at a fee, the fees piled up and MS owners or maybe Quad and sliep owners can pick up a cargo box of x size to transport to grab the collected fee reward. It has nothing to do with actually delivering the items.
 
Stage 1 - Galactic Auction.

From the point of view of a player who spends a lot of time on smaller planets (for example, I've been on Toulan for 99% of my daily activity since it launched) - this change will be a huge benefit to to players like me for several reasons.

1) Access to weapons, amps, etc. that prevent the need for dull supply runs
2) Access to markets for my looted and crafted items that mostly get TT'd now
3) Increased local demand for mined and hunted resources due to high transport fees on bulk items

This will lead to more activity across smaller planets as players will not be limited by the need to buy and sell almost everything on Caly (or not at all), and also to stronger local economies as bulk resources will need to be acquired locally due to weight penalties. Players of all levels will have more opportunities on smaller planets.

Stage 2 - Space Missions

Space is big, empty, and dull - a big ball of potential waiting to be tapped. This is a great way to give all kinds of players new roles in space. Running missions will be risky and exciting, and require skills and knowledge. Big ships will have something new to do that matches their capabilities, and Quad pilots can get a small piece of the pie too - giving us something else (non-pirating) to do besides hunt.

Stage 3 - Loophole Closing

Anyone who says this is bad thing does get the point of Space.

Overall
Nice concept, but execution matters. Like everything in EU, unintended consequences are unavoidable, and implementation is always rocky. Part of it is the nature of the beast, but over the years these things have gotten smoother, even as the universe grows more complex. While some of the concerns are legitimate, I doubt MA has failed to consider them - this has clearly been in the works for a long time.

I'm excited about theses changes, and *surprise, surprise* optimistic about the overall impact on EU, but only time will tell.

Cheers,
Miles
 
I'm hoping that the cargo box will be 'stuck' in the quad until returned or looted again.

I imagine all missions will have time limitations for delivery, some with less time for a higher bonus. It would mean any pirates have to go to the destinations as well (or get themselves looted by a 'friend' already going to the same destination). So hoarding will be limited to a certain extent due to the timers and cargo boxes won't be 'stuck' in quads for long.

I really do wonder about the queueing system to get new missions, though.... sounds like exploit(able) hell to me. I'd actually really like to be on the development for a project like this one to make it as fair as possible.
 
So no more speed hack and auto aim /shoot z 3rd party progs ect ..?

LOL, I doubt they will fix those issues. They will only fix the ability to log out to protect your loot from being looted by pirates.
 
Cool thing MA GJ !
 
LOL, I doubt they will fix those issues. They will only fix the ability to log out to protect your loot from being looted by pirates.


Correct. There is now a bigger fiscal inventive for being a pirate and furthermore taking measures to get an upper hand unethically and illegally just as much as people have no problem, it seems, taking advantage of the trapping exploit with vanguard STILL. MA has proven they won't do anything and calypso devs are complacent in working with MA to remove those blights.
 
I am heavily impressed by the amount of extrapolating in this thread. It's going to be interesting to see who's right.
 
Oh well thank you a lot MIndark

What do you (MINDARK) think taking away Business opportunities from ppl who only want to offer their Services geting back a bit of their very high Investment??? Is it only for the "more" Money you think you can gather from us all now? Mindark will let all Investors in space (who made a very high invest ofc) standing in the rain by offering universal auction with a higher fee ...

this will happen: ppl wont have the chance for a longer period (we all do not know whenever MA will invoke the second part as "very lousy excuse" into space - if you think at all the promises we were given by MA about taming you will agree - and even then - only this ppl who will have enough skills will get such Transport Mission - so this is a nice gift to all the spaceubers then. no Business anymore for all the little Pilots who are hard skilling ppl.

Nobody needs to go to space anymore because they can buy or sell all in universal auction. meantime the costs of the bigger ships keep on running and there will be NO RETURN OF INVESTMENT (only if you offer skilling Service by getting payed for) and that is not really that what most of the Players would like!

so no more transports - no return of Investment. wasnt there a promise to get a ROI in space too? But how? if i would buy a privateer right now - there would be no cargo Mission for me because of not having the appropriate skill. and whoever says there will be ped as payment they can only guess (we all know that promising now will NOT be the reason fulfilling the promise later) - so MA will fulfill their promise in maybe many ways (trash loot maybe or whatever) and then?

NO - the only reason why Mindark is acting like this is NOT that they listen to the community - the real reason is they think that they can take away all the invest ppl made and let them standing ingame with nothing then some Pixel which they make worthless! And they think they dont have to care because all the new Players will leave much more Money the Investors had already. THAT is Mindarks Marketing trick - taking away opportunities by offering some only mindark (or MAYBE some ubers later) will have Profit with.
 
The devil is in the details. The way this will be good for me is if it allows me to stay on a planet other than Calypso and sell my loot through auction (mostly to people on Calypso). For that the transport auction fees need to be reasonable and transparent to the buyer.

exactly,and if i cant sell my loot from arkadiaauction to calypsoplayers due to to high costs my grinding on arkadia will have to stop,unless there is an sure safe way to transport the stackables

i realise no1 really cares about that but me :p
but...if more highturnover grinders like me have to stop at other planets,it will have an impact on planetpartners
 
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