Question: Just a question about SIB and non-SIB weapons

If you are way over max on an SIB weapon do you think you would get more, less or about the same greenies using a non-SIB weapon ? I know that you would have more misses but could it be worth it. When I first started I killed a lot of mobs with merc at lvl 12 not knowing anything about eco. I was 1.2/10 lol. I am not talking that low but something like 8.5-9.0/10 on both hit and damage.

Good question.. hard to research.. because you also get better if you try to test it (getting less skillgains)
I guess you could test it with two fresh avatars who both have maxed an opalo
one keeps shooting opalo, and the other goes shooting jester-d1, and they both count the green lines as they progress.

here's what I think: (not researched)
I think sib stops working once you reach sib.
More greenies come from using bigger weapons = more decay
Whether those guns are non-sib or sib.. I think once you maxed a sib weapon it doesn't matter
It matter for eco ofcourse but not for skillgains. However.. I don't think you get skillgains after misses.. so that could be the difference.

Not so much the green skill gains as it is the decay differences of the two weapons because you would get more tt value per skill gain.

At some point with non sib, it would be better to just get a skill implant considering all the shots lost. If you want more skill gain in tt value (which is preferred), burn damage enhancers.

The amount of green lines has nothing to do with the amount of gained tt-value of the skill.

I think the amount of gained tt-value is a fraction of the PEDs cycled.

small gun small increases.
bigger gun bigger increases.

And during learning period this fraction is a bit increased.

Thus no difference on sib/nonsib outside learning period

Maybe this should be a topic on a future dev note?

mastermesh said:

Maybe this should be a topic on a future dev note?

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This and scopes/lasers. It's about time we know the basics of the skilling system...

My question is, would it be such a drama if the Level 100 weapons had SIB? (Skill Bonus)

I think it would be awesome, you still get shitty eco but the skill bonus would be cool for some.

Mob you hunt has acually bigger impact on your TT skill gains than SIB vs non-SIB (the most imprtant factor is the level_of_mob/hp_of_mob ratio - bigger level and lower hp - the better). I.e. from my tests/observations atm you can get from about 0.7% (small daikibas) to ~7.5% (caraboks) in TT skills gained of TT peds cycled. Hunting regular mobs usually gives ~1.5-2% in TT skill gains.
When caraboks were lev 10 they used to give ~16% of TT skills gained.

As for the SIB vs non-SIB:
my observations (with short tests but not enough to have total confirmation):
- SIB in "Yes" gives just a little more skills than when "Not anymore" per same amount of peds cycled.
- SIB with "Not anymore" gives more skills than non-SIB with comparable dps per same amount of peds cycled.
Both of the above tested on same mob.

@edit:
the skill system is more complicated that it seems:
for example the function describing TT value is even non-monotonic function (meaning that curve is not always growing but sometimes falling): its very visible at higher levels of skills (+8000 points) when sometimes (example) chipping down from 8040 to 8020 results with smaller chip than chipping from 8020 to 8000.

This may lead to conclusion that mayby also the function (except some randomness) describing how fast skills are gained may be not that simple. So espetially understanding how "skill are gained related to weapon" may be very hard to obtain.

Falagor

Angel O2 Mercer said:

This and scopes/lasers. It's about time we know the basics of the skilling system...

My question is, would it be such a drama if the Level 100 weapons had SIB? (Skill Bonus)

I think it would be awesome, you still get shitty eco but the skill bonus would be cool for some.

Click to expand...

be very careful what you ask for... Knowing Mindark, they will see some suggestion like this and take it to mean that the old school weapons should only start entering sib 0/10 at level 100... and move the glass ceiling up so that ubers are now essentially at level zero on old school... as max level will no longer be 100, but 1000

mastermesh said:

be very careful what you ask for... Knowing Mindark, they will see some suggestion like this and take it to mean that the old school weapons should only start entering sib 0/10 at level 100... and move the glass ceiling up so that ubers are now essentially at level zero on old school... as max level will no longer be 100, but 1000

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But they require level 0. I only said for them to have SIB. SIB from 0 to 100.

What you say is completely different and not what I meant.

Falagor said:

When caraboks were lev 10 they used to give ~16% of TT skills gained.

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There were also two mobs at RT (humanoids), but only a specific maturity of each, that gave even more IIRC. Anyway, it's indeed very much mob-dependent. As such, for SIB-ness verifications I believe other tools would be better - basically healing devices or mining finders - to remove the variations in skills different mobs give (back).

Falagor said:

the skill system is more complicated that it seems:
for example the function describing TT value is even non-monotonic function

Click to expand...

I found the link to Doer's image to help display it:



It's pretty clear it's exponential, but I don't think anyone has yet "cracked" what the modulation is.

Vlooe said:

Thus no difference on sib/nonsib outside learning period

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I am not sure what you mean by this. The learning period for SIB is finite, however not so for non-sib. Point in fact I happen to see a player (I believe it Mercury) in a video and showed 13.5/10 on his mod-merc in damage. Now this was a few VUs ago and may have changed. I not sure if this has anything to do with what you are saying. BTW this is not a dig on you just not sure what you mean.


As to a lot of the other comments:
1. I also think that the amount of weapon damage and mob size has something to do with it.
2. I am not sure about decay of weapons, armor or healing.
3. I was not really asking about TT value to skill gain as for this question I chose to ignore that part.
4. I know other will debate number 3 but I am not really sure that would make a big diff to me.
5. Worry about getting your money's worth in this game is in the fun of the play, IMO, not the income that maybe made.
6. I think, at best, it is little better than a crap shoot or slot machine.
7. The little better is I think you have a better chance because of mob hunted, amount of time in the game, skills and maybe other things we are un-aware of. Biggest is being in the right place at the right time.

Just one last thing. I know that I did much, much better during LT migration both ped-wise and skill-wise the Halloween MM. The MM mobs were bigger and gave much less average loot, for me, than LTs. Moreover the number of globals per capita was way less. I did about 37 hours in MM level 3 and some level 4 and around 80 globals and one HOF (800 ped). LTs I did play more time but had near 1K globals and 3 HOF ( all 3 about 1800 ped each). All my equipment was the same. I really though I would do as good or better because of the mob size but was very disappointed. Anyway just a side note.


Thanks all for the comments and hope I didn't offend anyone.

I answered my own question. Bought an UL improved defender damage 35 at 60 per so kind of a lower level gun and the green is much, much better than my SIB guns I have been using which are around the same power as the defender and some a little more.

CozMoDan said:

I answered my own question. Bought an UL improved defender damage 35 at 60 per so kind of a lower level gun and the green is much, much better than my SIB guns I have been using which are around the same power as the defender and some a little more.

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If you like we can run some tests. I use a ul p5a + A102 ( almost the same cost as IEP-21+A105 per use is the reason for the weird amp choice ) and we hunt a few times the same mob with it ( i'd sugggest Argos ) We compare chatlogs with amount of green lines and skills gained in TT value. After the first 2 or 3 testruns we swap weapons and we do the same again, that could give a hint ( although not conclusive because of the uneven nature of skillgains ).

BR

Jennson said:

If you like we can run some tests. I use a ul p5a + A102 ( almost the same cost as IEP-21+A105 per use is the reason for the weird amp choice ) and we hunt a few times the same mob with it ( i'd sugggest Argos ) We compare chatlogs with amount of green lines and skills gained in TT value. After the first 2 or 3 testruns we swap weapons and we do the same again, that could give a hint ( although not conclusive because of the uneven nature of skillgains ).

BR

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Not sure what you would change to as a P5a is an SIB weapon so you would be maxed at lvl 20. I wrote a program to parse the chat log also but just to lazy to run it. One of the other things I did want to know is if others had a similar experiences with UL verses L weapons. Thank you for the offer I do appreciate it .

CozMoDan said:

Not sure what you would change to as a P5a is an SIB weapon so you would be maxed at lvl 20. I wrote a program to parse the chat log also but just to lazy to run it. One of the other things I did want to know is if others had a similar experiences with UL verses L weapons. Thank you for the offer I do appreciate it .

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It can't test the SIB period, only MAxed SIB in the post SIB period versus non-sib, but as stated before as cost are very similiar with these setups another variable is eliminated.

Jennson said:

It can't test the SIB period, only MAxed SIB in the post SIB period versus non-sib, but as stated before as cost are very similiar with these setups another variable is eliminated.

Click to expand...

Ah, I see now what you meant.