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Why do people call space forced pvp?

It's not forced PVP. You dont have to leave your planet of origin, ever.

A simple switch to reinforce this perception would be for devs to allow for 1st Generation Wormhole Chip holders to be able to create wormholes to anywhere in the universe. Dont issue new chips, that way you dont significantly impact space as a whole. Just add that capability onto existing chips.

Then users could change planets without ever entering forced PvP zones (though an enterprising person might just create a wormhole into a forced PvP zone on another planet.... bwahahaha).

-MR
 
Harmony. said:
Sorry but space isn't safe and it never will be.
-If i travel with no loot pirates can still shoot me down causing my vehicle to decay
-if i travel while being disconnect the mothership owner can lie to me, tricking me to login when it isn't safe and sharing the loot with the pirates.

That being said i do travel in space quite regularly, might be a bit less after the next VU though :)
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Sorry, but space (as it is now) is safe, i am right, you're wrong.
I had traveled many times using MS warp services, with loot worth 2000+ and i hadn't worried for my safety for a second.
Can give you few hints how to travel safe:
* Use only reliable warp services as in my case i was using EFA. For these people their service quality is more important than to loot one person, who will lately will whine about how their service is unsafe.
* Log off when inside MS
* Always check out chats, visual/audio information given by warp service providers, if there are any pirates and when there is safe to log in.
*TP from SS to Planet. It cost 7 PED, but hey- it's safety.


"Safety isn't expensive, its priceless"
Those who try to save a little by doing some risky movements at space will sponsor pirates in long term for sure
 
nin33ch said:
Sorry, but space (as it is now) is safe, i am right, you're wrong.
I had traveled many times using MS warp services, with loot worth 2000+ and i hadn't worried for my safety for a second.
Can give you few hints how to travel safe:
* Use only reliable warp services as in my case i was using EFA. For these people their service quality is more important than to loot one person, who will lately will whine about how their service is unsafe.
* Log off when inside MS
* Always check out chats, visual/audio information given by warp service providers, if there are any pirates and when there is safe to log in.
*TP from SS to Planet. It cost 7 PED, but hey- it's safety.


"Safety isn't expensive, its priceless"
Those who try to save a little by doing some risky movements at space will sponsor pirates in long term for sure
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You obviously didn't read how that "safe" travel is against MA's rules/intentions, and in fact is being removed. SO no, there is not safe travel that is LEGAL.
 
nin33ch said:
Sorry, but space (as it is now) is safe, i am right, you're wrong.
I had traveled many times using MS warp services, with loot worth 2000+ and i hadn't worried for my safety for a second.
Can give you few hints how to travel safe:
* Use only reliable warp services as in my case i was using EFA. For these people their service quality is more important than to loot one person, who will lately will whine about how their service is unsafe.
* Log off when inside MS
* Always check out chats, visual/audio information given by warp service providers, if there are any pirates and when there is safe to log in.
*TP from SS to Planet. It cost 7 PED, but hey- it's safety.


"Safety isn't expensive, its priceless"
Those who try to save a little by doing some risky movements at space will sponsor pirates in long term for sure
Click to expand...

So you're saying it is impossible for someone from EFA to turn to the dark side?
 
Magyar_Republic said:
It's not forced PVP. You dont have to leave your planet of origin, ever.
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Wow Captain Obvious now has a General!

Yes, if you don't leave you are not forced. But if you want to play the entire game, then you are forced. There are 2 sides, and semantics doesn't change anything.
 
"force chat" exists on motherships... so maybe subliminally Mindark gave folks the idea to call space 'forced'
 
PVP4 for years was the only place that certain loot was available. It was made that way on purpose to entice participation. Technically, you are forced to go to pvp4 if you want that loot. You can choose to not go for that loot. It's your choice.

What's the difference here?
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
I have a few longer replies for some of you which I will get to later, but before that I have a follow up question to many of you:

- Calypso has forced PVP that is much worse than space. If you want to complete all missions, you are expected to spend time in lootable PVP. Why is that not a problem?
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It is a problem, it's total bullshit. But the mobs come out of pvp occasionally for events, so it's not as bad as space.

Stay on topic, OP wants to talk about space pvp ;)
 
JohnCapital said:
What's the difference here?
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PVP4 is a small fenced off area inside of a much larger world.

Planets are small fenced off worlds inside of a much larger universe.




Its all a matter or proportion. Having small areas set aside for different fun is good, setting aside everything just so you can sell some overpriced slow teleporters is fucked up.
 
Harmony. said:
So you're saying it is impossible for someone from EFA to turn to the dark side?
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lol.. there is a possibility for everyone turning to dark side, but.. why to destroy a business that required long time to build and trust of people to start using them.. I believe that EFA has higher income in long term than looting one person who will ruin their business by declaring that EFA cheated him and looted.
Not talking about only one service, there are a lot trustful warp services who proved that they can be trusted in long time.
 
Lighterthief said:
I wonder what the issues and loopholes are?

My guess is that this is talking about the logout during warp arrangement, which is what makes the travel safe... certainly it is implying that there should be no risk free transport
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I hope this is what was meant. It would certainly spice things up, making it more interesting.

Back to topic, it seems to me that some say space is forced PVP if you want to play the whole game, while others say it is not forced PVP because you don't have to play the whole game.

Perhaps agreeing to disagree would reduce the strain on the forum servers. :laugh:
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
I have a few longer replies for some of you which I will get to later, but before that I have a follow up question to many of you:

- Calypso has forced PVP that is much worse than space. If you want to complete all missions, you are expected to spend time in lootable PVP. Why is that not a problem?
Click to expand...

Very few will complete all missions from Puny to Hogglo Iron challenges before they *HAVE* to enter PVP4 to finish the lootable PVP area missions. Also there are new missions added every few months - Kerberos for example in a recent VU.

I'll never do the Iron missions inside PVP4, I'll never complete the ones I already have on my "to do" list quickly enough (completed 13 Iron and 2 Bronze on Calypso)
 
For on the planets, you can decide for yourself if you want to be in pvp or not but in space you can not do this.
 
JohnCapital said:
Technically, you are forced to go to pvp4 if you want that loot. You can choose to not go for that loot. It's your choice.

What's the difference here?
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There is no difference, if you are thinking about space loot (space horrors, dropships etc - possibly coming space mining). If you want to hunt space horrors you have to do it in space.

The entire space thing is a complex issue though.

On one hand, things like pirates and motherships adds a new area to the game, on the other hand there are things like pvp can attract griefers, lootable pvp can attract cheaters. There are things like security issues (a simple thing as, "am I carrying anything that is lootable"), and convenience issues (what happens when you get shot down until you can continue your travel, including if you revive aboard a mothership that's just abotu to move to Another part in space). There are traders, who are transporting materials for profit, and there are "Tourists" who mainly just want to go from A to B and doesn't earn any PEDs from it. Some people live for pvp, others doesn't like getting shot in their back when minding their business.

On planet you can't accidently wanter into lootable pvp (without antitoxic shot), but if you're aboard a quad/vtol the driver can drive you to lootable space without asking (there isn't even any "token item").

From a beginner's perspective: You learn that if you want to begin at Rocktropia or Next Island you need to begin at calypso and go from there (through space). But if you take the first quad ride you get, you risk getting fairly stuck in space and there isn't much you can do by yourself to leave space (if you have no PEDs for pay TP or properly equipped vehicle).
 
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You're right, no one is forcing you to go to space, just like no one is forcing you to use the Auction House.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the lootable zones in space, but I find it silly when people say it's not forced on players. Some people don't like lootable zones (for good reason) and IMO these people shouldn't be banned from space travel. It's not like space is so crowded we need to try and keep some people out....
 
I just find it interesting that people can justify PVP4, lootable areas that offer good loot in exchange for the chance to lose (or gain) it, but can't justify lootable space.

In terms of crossing dangerous territory in order to get high valued loot, I just don't see the difference, other than one is MUCH larger and MUCH more enticing.
 
JohnCapital said:
I just find it interesting that people can justify PVP4, lootable areas that offer good loot in exchange for the chance to lose (or gain) it, but can't justify lootable space.

In terms of crossing dangerous territory in order to get high valued loot, I just don't see the difference, other than one is MUCH larger and MUCH more enticing.
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I can't care less for pvp4 and its loot. For me space is just a road between two nearby locations, getting shot there is as annoying and meaningless as while crossing the bridge between Genesis and New Oxford.
 
JohnCapital said:
I just find it interesting that people can justify PVP4, lootable areas that offer good loot in exchange for the chance to lose (or gain) it, but can't justify lootable space.

In terms of crossing dangerous territory in order to get high valued loot, I just don't see the difference, other than one is MUCH larger and MUCH more enticing.
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People are different.
I dont justify PVP4 and avoid it.
Its big waste of devs time, resources and planet area for less than 1% of players.
Is cause of high prices of some crafting resources for faps, enhancers, ect wich add to higher cost of gameplay.
 
JohnCapital said:
I just find it interesting that people can justify PVP4, lootable areas that offer good loot in exchange for the chance to lose (or gain) it, but can't justify lootable space.

In terms of crossing dangerous territory in order to get high valued loot, I just don't see the difference, other than one is MUCH larger and MUCH more enticing.
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Yes it is odd..both are very much the same with the underlining same issues yet as we all know pvp4 is just this small area on each planet's map that no one really ever has to visit unlike space which has to be accessed if we want to explore the game. I never really got into pvp4 since again I knew it had it's issues that for the most part never had to be addressed since this game isn't all that big in player base but if this game is to grow this issue will be seen more. But for now all is really not all that much of a problem as long as MA keeps the player base as it is now.

But debating this issues is simply just a lost cause. I mean we can take an issue like this into a state prison and you know most of of the population in the prison will say that there is nothing wrong with what they did and they should have the right to do it again. Well we kind of are having this same debate here. Some in a prison may even say they do it because they have to so that they can be supporting the legal system and helping keep jobs and the economy an even playing ground.
 
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Everything in this game is forced on us. Until MA decide to follow through on the "players get a vote", idea it will continue.
I reckon lootable PVP should be everywhere. Then if a someone loots you in space....the next time they land you can kill and loot them. Or take a contract out. Every time they log in..... you kill and loot them, over and over again..... Hey! Vengence Universe VA, just make sure you dig 2 graves before you start.

^ DUMB IDEA.... which would kill the game for good. Just like is happening in space, helping to kill the game. Space should be a huge, amazing part of the game for old and new players alike.
 
JohnCapital said:
PVP4 for years was the only place that certain loot was available. It was made that way on purpose to entice participation. Technically, you are forced to go to pvp4 if you want that loot. You can choose to not go for that loot. It's your choice.

What's the difference here?
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There is no difference. If you want to do everything in the game you need to go to space AND pvp4. You can't even "complete" Calypso without being "forced" into pvp4.

What makes this interesting is that it clearly shows the bias among players. This is a game where information is important so people will read a lot and then their opinions will get shaped.

You ever heard of collective opinions (not sure that's the proper English term)?

You are in a room with hundred people. The guy on the stage asks "Is it time for a break now? ". Everyone is quiet until one person replies. No matter the answer a few will follow it which puts a social pressure on the rest. Either you think like "everyone else" or you are a lone wolf. Seconds later, without thinking about it, everyone has agreed and yes, it is time for a break.

I think this happens a lot in this game (and everywhere else) which is why I often question the normal. Our minds are built this way and our opinions are formed by subconscious decisions. It is really not until we are forced to rethink things that we can evaluate them in a proper way.
 
pvp4 is a small area on one planet with one or 2 missions linked to it. Not going in pvp4 has little effect on your overall game. Space has mulitple planets in it, not going into space prevents you from using 80% of the game. There really is no comparison between pvp4 and space.
 
slither said:
pvp4 is a small area on one planet with one or 2 missions linked to it. Not going in pvp4 has little effect on your overall game. Space has mulitple planets in it, not going into space prevents you from using 80% of the game. There really is no comparison between pvp4 and space.
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A big flaw in my thought process is that I assumed that the problem was that space was lootable. I would never imagine that it was the actual pvp that was the problem. I've been up there a few times and from time to time I get shot down right outside SS which delays my flight for a few minutes. The distance between planets is a much bigger issue in that case.

The big difference between space and pvp4 is that the few missions require you to either go on the most tedious task since sweating OR carry around loot worth hundreds of PED. Going up to space is a risk of 0.50PED at most if you follow the advice and guidelines found pretty much everywhere.
 
There is also the case of RT now having new players start on Calypso.

www.ZOMKONG.com to act as the new Web Portal to the planet Rocktropia. Upcoming marketing Campaigns for ROCKtropia will focus on specific Movies, Mobs, Experiences, Destinations and Events rather than the planet as a whole. ... New Players will start on Planet Calypso to learn the Ropes of the Platform, before being encouraged to explore the Wonders of the Universe!
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If someone were to join purely to go to one of the events being held on RT they have no option but to go through space.
 
SpikeBlack said:
There is also the case of RT now having new players start on Calypso.



If someone were to join purely to go to one of the events being held on RT they have no option but to go through space.
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Monria players get free instant travel to Caly, I'd imagine RT players will get the same. At least they should.
 
JohnCapital said:
I just find it interesting that people can justify PVP4, lootable areas that offer good loot in exchange for the chance to lose (or gain) it, but can't justify lootable space.
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Just to mention one thing: Safety/security. First, you can't walk into pvp3/pvp4 by mistake - you need to be prepared for it. And, secondly, as part of preparation: You can easily leave pretty much all your carried inventory in on-planet storage, including all vehicles nowdays (which might contain old loot) - knowing that when you exit lootable pvp, you can pick up all storage boxes, vehicles and other junk you want to carry with you from pretty much any storage terminal.

You are also, often, better prepared for it. You can enter pvp4 exactly whenever you like. When you go to space, there is often a delay (scheduled rides delayed because of pirates, quad taxi drivers getting CTDs Before taking off and things like that) - and nowdays when you get a summon you have some 20 seconds to accept it or miss the ride (a "Quick fix" since pirates summoned to space), so when you get the summon the 20 seconds might not be enough time to look through all containers you are carrying.

JohnCapital said:
In terms of crossing dangerous territory in order to get high valued loot, I just don't see the difference, other than one is MUCH larger and MUCH more enticing.
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I still haven't looted an Eron on Arkadia, or UFO or snubnose/tommygun on Rocktropia. Or, for that matter, anything out of the ordinary in space. (Actually, hunting in space is for me 20% returns, I mostly do it for skills.) So can you please enlighten us which high valued loot is availible on other planets? (Loot Worth same as minerals mined in pvp4, I assume you mean.)
 
aia said:
Just to mention one thing: Safety/security. First, you can't walk into pvp3/pvp4 by mistake - you need to be prepared for it. And, secondly, as part of preparation: You can easily leave pretty much all your carried inventory in on-planet storage, including all vehicles nowdays (which might contain old loot) - knowing that when you exit lootable pvp, you can pick up all storage boxes, vehicles and other junk you want to carry with you from pretty much any storage terminal.

You are also, often, better prepared for it. You can enter pvp4 exactly whenever you like. When you go to space, there is often a delay (scheduled rides delayed because of pirates, quad taxi drivers getting CTDs Before taking off and things like that) - and nowdays when you get a summon you have some 20 seconds to accept it or miss the ride (a "Quick fix" since pirates summoned to space), so when you get the summon the 20 seconds might not be enough time to look through all containers you are carrying.
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I have yet to see anyone buying a quad by mistake, thrusters by mistake and then attaching them by mistake after which said person spawned the vehicle by mistake, right clicking it by mistake and pressing operate by mistake followed by flying up by mistake and clicking yes on the prompt by mistake.

I'd say chances are bigger someone takes a toxic shot for fun and then run in to pvp4 by mistake.

And you can drop your stuff in any storage before you go out. The idea is to have separate supplies. That's all invalid arguments.
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
A big flaw in my thought process is that I assumed that the problem was that space was lootable. I would never imagine that it was the actual pvp that was the problem. I've been up there a few times and from time to time I get shot down right outside SS which delays my flight for a few minutes. The distance between planets is a much bigger issue in that case.

The big difference between space and pvp4 is that the few missions require you to either go on the most tedious task since sweating OR carry around loot worth hundreds of PED. Going up to space is a risk of 0.50PED at most if you follow the advice and guidelines found pretty much everywhere.
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PVP in any guise is bullshit if it effects my game in any way. You want pvp then do pvp with others who choose to do pvp. It really is simple to create a system where you have an absolute choice to do pvp or not.

Over the 10 years I've been here MA keep making it worse for those who don't want to be involved in pvp. Nothing I say is gonna change that so I give up. Fuck MA and anyone who thinks it's ok to shoot me and screw with my game; I'm gonna leave these threads alone , they just piss me off.
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
I have yet to see anyone buying a quad by mistake, thrusters by mistake and then attaching them by mistake after which said person spawned the vehicle by mistake, right clicking it by mistake and pressing operate by mistake followed by flying up by mistake and clicking yes on the prompt by mistake.

I'd say chances are bigger someone takes a toxic shot for fun and then run in to pvp4 by mistake.

And you can drop your stuff in any storage before you go out. The idea is to have separate supplies. That's all invalid arguments.
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I routinely get teleported up to motherships and privateers by mistake, usually carrying several thousand peds worth of resources. Why? Because some numbskull at MA decided it would be a good idea to make the summons look identical to trade requests (even after I sent multiple support cases explaining SIMPLE changes they could make to prevent it).

I think you are being a little close-minded on the issue of space and lootable zones. Many, many people go to space every week either for the first time and don't know what lootable items are, or experienced players carrying loot buried in boxes, or invisible stacks in inventory... all of these players thought they were following safe procedures but instead they're looted. Most of the time they don't even know they've had their stuff stolen. So yes, it's very, very easy, and common, to lose your stuff in space accidentally.

People do get looted in space against their will, even after following the accepted "safe" procedures. You can't pretend it doesn't happen or say it isn't an issue for many, many Entropia players.
 
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