Why do people call space forced pvp?

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I've been reading up on space recently and time after time people say that space is forced lootable pvp. I don't get it?

1. You have the option to travel safely for a fee
2. You can fly empty
3. You can stay at planet

I just can't see it? Is there a bug or something that makes people log in in space when logged off at planet? Does account get locked unless you go into space in a certain period of time? What is it?

What is it that FORCES people up in space?

I understand that if you want to go to another planet you have to travel through space, but I just don't see anyone being forced to do so.
 
Players don't like paying a fee to be safe.
 
Players don't like paying a fee to be safe.

I noticed that. But what grinds my gears (ty Peter Griffin) is that people often claims it is forced and that you MUST go into space with a bunch of loot. At least that's the impression I get.

This also leads to "space is for pirates" arguments which also bugs me. Out of my point of view it is designed like this for MS owners, to make space a place for business.
 
I've been reading up on space recently and time after time people say that space is forced lootable pvp. I don't get it?

1. You have the option to travel safely for a fee
2. You can fly empty
3. You can stay at planet

I just can't see it? Is there a bug or something that makes people log in in space when logged off at planet? Does account get locked unless you go into space in a certain period of time? What is it?

What is it that FORCES people up in space?

I understand that if you want to go to another planet you have to travel through space, but I just don't see anyone being forced to do so.


Actually,there are numerous times it is FORCED PvP

Remember when you used to zone in from planet atmosphere to lootable space, and all the pirates knew it and they waited for you and shot you down when you thought you would safely be zoning in to the non-lootable bubble?

Or how about this...You pay for "safe" transport (as you state in ur OP) and the warp pilot crashes in non-lootable, because of a pilot-crashing bug that MA allowed to exist for months, and when the pilot crashes, the ship stops in lootable space 500 meters from non-lootable, and the exploiting pirates are there to shoot you down like Micjack did? They knew the spot where the bug occurred and would camp it and take down a defenseless ship by themselves by exploiting the bug that they knew of.

Or maybe this, the guest list bug that allowed ships in lootable space to summon people from planet, kill them and loot them.

Or being pushed into lootable by pirates bumping you when afk.

There are other ways, too, many other ways.

And yes we are also forced to go into space to get shit we need on other planets, or to sell for MU, and until the great day comes with universal auction, I feel quite correct saying that PvP was forced on us to allow exploiting pirates the opportunity to exploit good people.

Saying "no one forces you to go there" is just semantics...you are trying to make a point that has been obliterated numerous times already. I know you are newer, but I still expected better of you based on some of the clarity and insight you have thought and written with in other posts :)
 
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I noticed that. But what grinds my gears (ty Peter Griffin) is that people often claims it is forced and that you MUST go into space with a bunch of loot. At least that's the impression I get.

This also leads to "space is for pirates" arguments which also bugs me. Out of my point of view it is designed like this for MS owners, to make space a place for business.

But then again what your logic kind of says in that people are then forced to stay on planet.

The idea of forced in this game is that since all items have a RL value there is no way you can go from planet A to planet B without the chance to loose it all which sorry is in a way illegal for MA to do so since we are dealing with RL money here. But yes, so many debates can and will start over this.
 
Actually,there are numerous times it is FORCED PvP

Remember when you used to zone in from planet atmosphere to lootable space, and all the pirates knew it and they waited for you and shot you down when you thought you would safely be zoning in to the non-lootable bubble?

Or how about this...You pay for "safe" transport (as you state in ur OP) and the warp pilot crashes in non-lootable, because of a pilot-crashing bug that MA allowed to exist for months, and when the pilot crashes, the ship stops in lootable space 500 meters from non-lootable, and the exploiting pirates are there to shoot you down like Micjack did? They knew the spot where the bug occurred and would camp it and take down a defenseless ship by themselves by exploiting the bug that they knew of.

Or maybe this, the guest list bug that allowed ships in lootable space to summon people from planet, kill them and loot them.

There are other ways.

And yes we are also forced to go into space to get shit we need on other planets, or to sell for MU, and until the great day comes with universal auction, I feel safe saying that PvP was forced on us to allow exploiting pirates the opportunity to exploit good people.

You're talking about exploits and cheaters. That's fucked up but it is really not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about how people assume space travel is inevitable. That you must go up there. It is really an arbitrary point of view full of bias, which most often leads to discussion s regarding space with faulty premises as the foundation of the discussion.

And people accept it.
 
But then again what your logic kind of says in that people are then forced to stay on planet.

The idea of forced in this game is that since all items have a RL value there is no way you can go from planet A to planet B without the chance to loose it all which sorry is in a way illegal for MA to do so since we are dealing with RL money here. But yes, so many debates can and will start over this.

It is 100% legal.

My logic says that you can do whatever you want, just do the proper research and approach it correctly.
 
You're talking about exploits and cheaters. That's fucked up but it is really not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about how people assume space travel is inevitable. That you must go up there. It is really an arbitrary point of view full of bias, which most often leads to discussion s regarding space with faulty premises as the foundation of the discussion.

And people accept it.

A fapper might be "forced" to visit another planet, the person who wants to hire pays for transport (back and forth) and pays fapping fee on location with loot.
 
You're talking about exploits and cheaters. That's fucked up but it is really not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about how people assume space travel is inevitable. That you must go up there. It is really an arbitrary point of view full of bias, which most often leads to discussion s regarding space with faulty premises as the foundation of the discussion.

And people accept it.

I edited my post (you quoted it too quick) :D

Space travel IS inevitable if you want to experience all the game offers. SO yes it IS forced on you to play the FULL game.

So, I guess your point is that "no one forces you to go there" but I disagree. If I am forced to go there to experience the entire game, then I am forced to go there. Again semantics.

It seems like your thread was started to point out to all of us that if we never take our feet off the ground of our starter planet, then space is not an issue. In that case, all I have to say is "wow, thanks, captain obvious!"


See more on Know Your Meme
 
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A fapper might be "forced" to visit another planet, the person who wants to hire pays for transport (back and forth) and pays fapping fee on location with loot.

That's not 'forced' though. The fapper can simply decline and not go. MA isn't pushing them into space is what I think OP is trying to say. Space PvP would be forced if you started in a tunnel with no where to go but forward, which was through lootable pvp space, to get to the other side to continue playing the game. That is not the case and what OP is trying to point out. Although many circumstances and situations may make it seem that space lootable pvp is 'forced' on the playerbase, in technicality it really isn't. You can play the whole time on Calypso, Ark, RT, Cyrene, or Monria if you choose so without ever leaving. However, since many want to visit other planets they feel forced to go through space.

I rarely leave calypso so I can totally see myself staying here and completely avoiding space, but then again I don't mind to pay for a 'safe' warp to get to another planet faster anyways if I do wish to visit another planet.
 
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It is 100% legal.

My logic says that you can do whatever you want, just do the proper research and approach it correctly.

But then again what you are saying is that it would be totally legal for someone to go into a casino* and rob someone of all their tokens? As many would point out it's only game money so would it be legal to steal them?

* Any place that converts RL money into tokens and back
 
but then again I don't mind to pay for a 'safe' warp to get me there faster anyways.

pretty soon there wont be a 'safe' option, so therefore yes, forced to stay on planet or forced to enter pvp
 
MA also makes it so damn cryptic of what is and isn't lootable.

Said this before they gave non lootable skill pills out as prizes, they even stated they were non lootable, I even got shot down and they were non lootable. Then couple weeks later in an update they made them all lootable with no warning. I send support case they replied they never stated they were non lootable and they actually went back and changed their original post like scam artists.

They constantly add new stuff to the game and no-one knows if it is lootable or not until after it is looted. WTF can't they just label shit lootable so we fucking know without having to risk it the first time. They feel no remorse for fucking us over either with this crap.

You are forced to go into space to get to another planet. Even if you do the log off your still in game for 60 seconds after your client logs off and if the MS goes into PVP lootable in that time your at risk of being looted and not even seeing it done, high SI MS's have less risk but in the beginning when all SI was low it was done.

Unless you never want to play 40% of the game you can just stay on Calypso but people that start on other planets miss out on 60% of the game unless being forced to travel through space.

Space pretty much is a forced medium you have to travel through to play the game and enjoy all the aspects and cultures of it. Saying it isn't is just wrong in every aspect.

If space was actually done right, it would be ok to play in, but with exploits being used by some and not others, cheats being used etc. Space is just ridiculous to have in an RCE type game where real cash is involved, what is being done there is bullying and straight out theft being made legal by our god over seers at Mindark and there is no other governing bodies to see this as illegal. If this was subscription based it would be acceptable but as open deposit RCE game it is completely unjust and should have to abide by all RL laws and regulations about crimes being done.
 
That's not 'forced' though. The fapper can simply decline and not go. MA isn't pushing them into space is what I think OP is trying to say. Space PvP would be forced if you started in a tunnel with no where to go but forward, which was through lootable pvp space, to get to the other side to continue playing the game. That is not the case and what OP is trying to point out. Although many circumstances and situations may make it seem that space lootable pvp is 'forced' on the playerbase, in technicality it really isn't. You can play the whole time on Calypso, Ark, RT, Cyrene, or Monria if you choose so without ever leaving. However, since many want to visit other planets they feel forced to go through space.

I rarely leave calypso so I can totally see myself staying here and completely avoiding space, but then again I don't mind to pay for a 'safe' warp to get me there faster anyways.

Beg to differ, his business opportunities are restricted due to space then. Could be because customer is a premium one and he will loose him if not accepting job.

ps. last time I was away from Calypso was during the Hunt the Thing event, have not visited CND/FOMA, Next Island, Cyrene, Toulan and Monria...
 
Because there is no way to go to another planet without travelling through a PVP zone.

Doesnt matter if you go via a mothership or whether you have any stackables, you are at risk of being shot at.

Hence "forced" PVP.
 
MA also makes it so damn cryptic of what is and isn't lootable.

They constantly add new stuff to the game and no-one knows if it is lootable or not until after it is looted. WTF can't they just label shit lootable so we fucking know without having to risk it the first time. They feel no remorse for fucking us over either with this crap.

FYI: I had H-DNA looted from me a week ago. I think this is stupid that this is lootable. I got it from a universal ammo pack on the webshop. Universal ammo isn't even tradeable, but the H-DNA that comes with it is lootable?
It's another one of those things that doesn't fit in category well..
 
Yes, there are places in the game you have to go through a pvp area to get to. So? This isn't My Little Pony Universe.
 
I edited my post (you quoted it too quick) :D

Space travel IS inevitable if you want to experience all the game offers. SO yes it IS forced on you to play the FULL game.

So, I guess your point is that "no one forces you to go there" but I disagree. If I am forced to go there to experience the entire game, then I am forced to go there. Again semantics.

It seems like your thread was started to point out to all of us that if we never take our feet off the ground of our starter planet, then space is not an issue. In that case, all I have to say is "wow, thanks, captain obvious!"


See more on Know Your Meme

Yes, as you express it. To be able to try the full game out we need to get there BUT I really think that it is a good thing because if it wasn't like it is, the market would diminish for traders and pilots, because if it was super safe anyone could spend fifteen minutes afk to get what they want.

By forcing people OUT of space (can we use that viewpoint?) a ton of business opportunities are created. Which pretty much is my point.

OP might have been clumsy, but what I really wanted to point out is that people accept everything that is phrased in a negative way if it has to do with space and PVP which gives new players an instant anti-space-bias. Lootable space is good for the economy but people are already full of assumptions when they start thinking about it, due to the negative nature of space related discussions.

Hope that made sense.
 
But then again what you are saying is that it would be totally legal for someone to go into a casino* and rob someone of all their tokens? As many would point out it's only game money so would it be legal to steal them?

* Any place that converts RL money into tokens and back

If you go all in with 2-7 at the poker table the other players will most likely walk away with your money.
 
Space PvP is forced.

No question about it, the way you are using the word force really makes it impossible for anyone to say you are wrong.

People can stay on one planet this is true, but if they want to go to Ark they are FORCED (no matter what) to fly through a PvP zone. Your response will be, but they are not forced to go. This is true, but if they do want to go to ark they are FORCED into a Pvp zone.

Logging off in space is an exploit/cheat/scum/shameful act *cough* I mean "loophole". It is "not" allowed, but people such as, every single "UBER" takes part in the *cough* "loophole", thus they can't ban the advertising and heavy investing players. Rightly so, they shouldn't do it, but to be honest, I don't want the players I have seen log off to leave as they are the fun ones to keep an eye on, the target to aim for. Other than the log off scum/cheating/exploiting side of them.

Why haven't they go rid of log off in space you ask? Well how can they, it is not a easy answer.

Hopefully the new space update will change this.
 
Not sure if TE just want to provoke and cast down a drama thread.


If you want to travel to another Planet you are forced to use space because there arn't any other means of transport.
Since space is pvp you are forced into possible pvp if you wish to travel between planets. You can stay on your planet of course but the point is if you wanna visit another planet you must use space.

Thats why people call it forced pvp. While planet bound pvp zones does not restrict your game and are easy to avoid, you can not avoid space while traveling.

If thats a good thing or a bad thing, wasn't your question so i wont comment it.
 
If you go all in with 2-7 at the poker table the other players will most likely walk away with your money.

nvm.......... missed a significant word.
 
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Yes, as you express it. To be able to try the full game out we need to get there BUT I really think that it is a good thing because if it wasn't like it is, the market would diminish for traders and pilots, because if it was super safe anyone could spend fifteen minutes afk to get what they want.

By forcing people OUT of space (can we use that viewpoint?) a ton of business opportunities are created. Which pretty much is my point.

OP might have been clumsy, but what I really wanted to point out is that people accept everything that is phrased in a negative way if it has to do with space and PVP which gives new players an instant anti-space-bias. Lootable space is good for the economy but people are already full of assumptions when they start thinking about it, due to the negative nature of space related discussions.

Hope that made sense.

Ok now we are discussing a different issue :)

The negative nature of space discussions is deserved.

It does NOT help the economy.

And it CERTAINLY does NOT help player retention. You know how many new players don't play anymore because they lost everything up there because they didn't fully understand it, or were exploited?

HUNDREDS!

How is that good for the ol' economy?

There is simply NOTHING good about it... it was the only clumsy way MA could think of to appease MS/hangar owners. It was implemented poorly, and its effect on this game has been devastating.
 
1. You have the option to travel safely for a fee
.

But do we?
When we had the post about the upcoming december VU the quote that stuck in my mind was this

It will still be possible to transport goods and resources through space in the current manner, though changes will be made in upcoming Version Updates to address currently existing issues and loopholes that allow for risk-free transport of goods and materials through space.

I wonder what the issues and loopholes are?

My guess is that this is talking about the logout during warp arrangement, which is what makes the travel safe... certainly it is implying that there should be no risk free transport

so back to the point, we can pay a fee for fast travel but imo that is not designed to be risk free
 
Yes, space travel is safe just need to pay the price for safety.
Also i wish that MA would leave possibility to log off at MS, because it's total safer way to travel and it irritate those nasty pirate rats most :)
 
I've been reading up on space recently and time after time people say that space is forced lootable pvp. I don't get it?

1. You have the option to travel safely for a fee
2. You can fly empty
3. You can stay at planet

I just can't see it? Is there a bug or something that makes people log in in space when logged off at planet? Does account get locked unless you go into space in a certain period of time? What is it?

What is it that FORCES people up in space?

I understand that if you want to go to another planet you have to travel through space, but I just don't see anyone being forced to do so.

You dont have options as you have on planet to go arround pvp zone and avoid pvp to not get killed.
1. you can still get killed on MS.
2. i always fly empty and can still get killed.
3 i mostly stay on planet - nothing to do in space except to be free (non paid ) fun for pirates/pkers
4. sometimes ned to move o another planet because of events, missions, or special items on local auction ( wich are not lotable anyway ) and still have a chance to get harashed and involved in pkers/pirates game causing additional indirect damage to not get at event in time or to not bid in auction in time.
5. we dont have duel system where pvp can happen only if is consented and agreed by both sides.
6. i invited pkers many times in case they have so desperate needs to kill me that they can do it in ring if they pay each kill and they can continue to do it as long as they pay 24/7. So both sides can have their part of agreed fun.
7. lotable part of problem is invented by reselers and is used every time to troll threads about why we are forced to be pirates free target to shoot just for fun without payment.
8. slogan like "you can travel safely for a fee" is working as extrortion - ie if you dont want to pay MS then pirates will kill you. If is for that im ready to pay double for interplanetary TP and to pay to MA directly for that service.
9. Karma do not work as it shud and we dont have right punishment for pkers. They are at contrary encouraged by MA systems and environment.

I belive that most players (except reselers) fly empty and their problem is not to loose something from inventory but to be killed. Many ppl have RL jobs and life and limited time at dissposition in EU to play what they like and not what rapresent fun for pkers.
 
The game is marketed as a universe, so other planets are integral part of it and can't be seen as supplementary content. Following OP logic, lets make all territories between teleports lootable PVP. No one forces you out of the starting zone.

About safety. There's no 100% safety in space no matter of fee. Sure some ships have extreme SI and offer almost ultimate protection under normal pirate activity, but let a word out that you're carrying 500k of stackables and see what will happen.

And most importantly, safety isn't only about losing something material. PVP, when both parties agreed to it, is meant to be a noble sport, but what happens for most people in space is not pvp, it's target practice. If pvp is not your thing, you're forced to be a victim. I always fly empty and unarmed, but even the fact that a pirate wasted several peds on me while I lost nothing and even gained some skills doesn't smooth the fact that I've been abused. Some asshole just had fun at expense of my dignity and time. Wtf?
 
:duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh:...... Etc. etc. etc..........
 
Yes, space travel is safe just need to pay the price for safety.

Sorry but space isn't safe and it never will be.
-If i travel with no loot pirates can still shoot me down causing my vehicle to decay
-if i travel while being disconnect the mothership owner can lie to me, tricking me to login when it isn't safe and sharing the loot with the pirates.

That being said i do travel in space quite regularly, might be a bit less after the next VU though :)
 
I have a few longer replies for some of you which I will get to later, but before that I have a follow up question to many of you:

- Calypso has forced PVP that is much worse than space. If you want to complete all missions, you are expected to spend time in lootable PVP. Why is that not a problem?
 
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