Sweating SIB tools

Hey guys,

I'm not a sweater myself but I happen to have tried it out as well as discussed it with fellow players who do it to a larger extent. I've given it some thought and figured I would like to get more opinions on the matter.

As of today sweating is tedious yet there are many dedicated sweaters out there. By adding sweat tools that decay, increase efficiency or even deals damage, sweating would be more enjoyable. Rather than just aiming for skill gains you would have a clear path in front of you and the skills would actually matter.

The main issue would be the effect on the market which is why I suggest that the demand for sweat would need to increase. In order to do this, a material crafted using sweat as part of it probably would need to be added to every sweating tools recipe. I'm thinking something like "Sweat Crystals" that would make sense and be crafted out of something like a few novas and a few bottles of sweat. The blueprint for the crystals could be bought at the technician and make a decent skilling print for new players.

Furthermore I believe that the actual tool prints should be limited. This way the market could be controlled and the tools withdrawn from game in case of unexpected effects on the market. A slow deploy would be essential.

Thoughts? Would you enjoy it? How do you think it would impact the economy? Would sweating be more rewarding?

Sweating is supposed to be an entry level way of making peds, hence I see no point in making more advanced tools. I can agree on making sweat more useful, welding wire was a good move, something similar with fuel for vehicles could be an idea, ie refine oil and sweat to make gasoline for land based vehicles and another refined product (oil+sweat+nova, for instance) for flying vehicles which would make kerosin.

Sweating was a starter activity for new players to taste the game - VU 5.x.
It was stopping at around 110-120 skills or a bit more, and you could not sweat anymore.
* When sweating appeared, older players could simply not sweat at all, as too much skilled.

The sweat profession was uncapped few years later by Mindark, pretending it was because the game reached 500k accounts, which all of us knew this was a BIG lie when the Player Register feature was released (showing that there was not 500k, or even not 1 million accounts like they are all the time bragging to tell, but 273k to the best).
(More comments can be done later in this thread).

So the sweat profession was uncapped, but it is CLEAR that Mindark NEVER planned to improve this profession, as it would have been logic that all mindforce locked skills would contribute to the Sweat Gatherer Profession (like all professions and locked/unlocked skills behave in the game). Sweat Gatherer is the ONLY exception.

Now,
it is also clear that mindark will never give super tools (costing money) better than the stupid noisy VSE tool we have today, or this would mean that 1*) we would be able to chip out the skill in a purpose to resell them, but also 2*) it would mean that tons of players would have been fucked up since those unlocks should have been contributing during those years, and they could ask some compensation in the form of skill chips (filled esi) with the related amount of skills... which again will never happen.

Actually it was around 220, got 221 and haven´t sweated since. Otherwise spot on Akbar.

for me it was 174 or 176 - and if you ask me -- bring back the cap!

Also: what Akbar say's!

Bringing back the cap will lead to more accounts being created. Maybe threy could reach the milion!

Sweat cap was at a certain professional standing. IIRC it was determined at which but I do not remember the number.

Regarding Akbars opinions:

1) SG skill would not necessarily be chipabe just because of such an addition.

2) The game evolves. We didn't have vehicles yet we don't demand compensation for our time. We didn't have rookie finders or eco nanochips. The only complaints I see is if we could start chipping SG, which I don't think we should for many reasons.

Sweat gathering was introduced as a part of mindforce profession.
It was natural ability before VU 10.
On one side i dont have nothing against better sweating tools, maybe addvanced in harvesting tool for other natural materials too.

But human mind and its power or force shud remain as it was - ie not tool force or chip force but mind force.

I hope ppl still remeber - once concentration period was ower and started sweatin process you could type in chat, you could move frely and you didnt loose target.
Mind do not need visible target, we have telepathy after all.
Ah memories - healing with chip also did not need line of sight and visible target, it was enought click on player hp bar, never had problem if moob was betwen me and player i healed.

So from that side of view MA could do big step in MF progress just with turning sweating back as it was before VU 10 in mode we can sweat without VSE1, just with our mind where you dont need to be in line of sight, you dont loose target if mob move ect and on top of that you use your mind and not tool.

old school sweating was far more realistic as this old video shows:

Line of sight and the sweat tool that need to keep focus was made to counter sweating bots. I liked that "tam tam tam" sounds while focus and it was a good way to idle and chat away your time if you had nothing better to do.

Sweating should stay the way it is. Where are the advantages to improve sweating and involve it more into our economy ? Mindark could have used the new global Auction transport fees not on space but on sweaters but aparently they didn't.

Sweaters should deposit or trade/offer services.
Higher sweat tools that decay would probably drive people without the peds to use them out of the sweating market and make it worse for them. Sweat price would be fixed at decay of the best tool if it produce significantly more sweat than the free one. If it dosn't , whats the point to start using it ?

The most i could agree with would be to restrict the starter sweat tool to mobs level 10 and lower. If you want to sweat higher mobs buy a bigger tool and face decay. Welcome to contribute into the economy and making mindark some profit.

Fiona Simmons said:

Line of sight and the sweat tool that need to keep focus was made to counter sweating bots. I liked that "tam tam tam" sounds while focus and it was a good way to idle and chat away your time if you had nothing better to do.

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No, maybe it helped but im not sure because with tool was even more easy for boots - server borders, instances ect.
For me line of sight served to nerf (range) even more my helanig chip and ways heling was possible before VU 10.
After VU 10 nobody could sweat because function was not implemented.
All MF was off for long - maybe year and half we couldnt use any chip.
First was reintroduced sweat gathering.
To implement it was needed new avatar system for new engine - wich was not ready.
Marco sugested to MA tool as temporary sollution to turn back sweating and MA after few months implemented VSE Mk 1.
MA also promissed that after new avatar system we will get sweat gathering back as it was.
It needed more than two yeqars for new avatar system wich probably still is not complete and MA forgot on their promise (or Marco but he is long gone).

For me sweating was forbiden for years because of skill cap but once MA removed restrictions i tryed it and loved it as it was.
Something new, mistery, something to unlock maybe, for fun and for sure not for selling botles lol and seeing that is only skill that rich kids cant buy and chip in - i take it as challenge while relaxing form long missions grinds.
Cant understand that sweating and selling botles is addvertised as only way to make peds.
Free defence and other skills wich player get wile sweating are much more valuable for newcomer to permit him more efficient and cheaper hunt.
Ah tam tam tam sounds - female avatars did some kind of sexy dance while concentrating...


If we want new tool then we need more areas where sweat essence is needed.
So new chips, maybe more blue prints, fuel ect

Dan59 said:

No, maybe it helped but im not sure because with tool was even more easy for boots - server borders, instances ect.

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The VSE Tool was implemented for a simple reason.

The goal have been to remove the concentration part which was a part of some mindforce power.
Certainly in a purpose to accelerate the use of attack chips, since healing chips were not using the concentration animation.

In the same vision, mindark removed the Focus Chip which was apparently bothering them A LOT as this chip was the perfect ANTI-MISS chip, which was completly going against their plans (as I remember calling the new VU 10.0, the Miss VU since so many Miss features have been implemented at this time).
Also notice that the new focus chip now renammed as "Synchronisation" chip is eating 8 times more Mind Essence, but also have a timer which is clearly multyplying its cost of use (again compared to the original chip, the focus chip)...
On side to that mindark unfair move, the Focus Chip renammed as Synh chip lost dramatically in markup.

Finally, like it had been asked by the players in the past, we found SME in the trade terminal, which is used by all attack chips and heal chips, and Light SME (refined) used for strike chips, if they drop.

WhiningSkeptic said:

Regarding Akbars opinions...

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These are not opinions, but pure logic.

In Mindark's point of view, the players can't chip out the Sweat Gatherer skills because it is a free feature.
For sure I know that while sweating you get few other skills you can chip, but they belong to other paying professions.
In the same logic, I heard that we can not chip out the skill "Mentor".

Anyway, it is true, that sweating brings sweats that you can sell, so when you analyse all at the end, you would come to the conclusion to wonder why Mindark made the Sweat Gatherer skills unchippable (unless the fact that they want to reduce the number of players playing for free and who are looking to withdraw their peds)...

Dan59 said:

Ah tam tam tam sounds - female avatars did some kind of sexy dance while concentrating...

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The good old days.

Sweating doesn't need "new tools" or anything else. The best thing MA could do for sweating is to remove that stupid tool and let sweating be the all-natural mindforce power that this Universe had.

Consider carefully: The original "story" of mindforce was that it was a natural "power" we found that doesn't exist on Earth. No tools were needed, but, it was only useful for pulling sweat. Then we found that with special implants and chips, we could access even more aspects of this "power".

We found the ability to attack, defend, even teleportation.

Sweating is/was a great "try it before you buy it" aspect of Entropia. Learning about it and what it was encouraged folks to experiment with other mindforce.

Now that we have more mindofrce ability than ever, why not go back to a style of sweating that actually supports the storyline and encourages folks to dip their toe into the MF pool.

JohnCapital said:

I agree. Akbar was a pioneer in the sweat count field. Yes it sucks that the "new" sweating system completely wipes out all his work, but it's much appreciated nonetheless.

Thanks man.

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Sweating skill is still cosmetic only, right? If so, no need for SIBs.