MA never stated that this sort of upgrade will need consuming CLD's in the proces.
Mindark Official Prophet at Twins (Amps and CLD's questions)
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MA never stated that this sort of upgrade will need consuming CLD's in the proces.
Teiwaz Storm
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Get a life man.
You got straight official deny and now you simply do not trust it because it was not instant...
It turns out you are a simple troll with paranoia.
I'm glad I didnt waste too much of my life on this bullshit conspiracy theory.
Wait a second. Any amount of time is too much time.
Why bulshit ? Hipotesis good as any other. Show me one thing proving that things I described are not happening already. Just don't tell me "Because MA said that". It is as good as mine hypotesis.
Etopia
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let me see if i get what happen here...
you can speak with someone at MA , and the only stuff you manage to do is piss im off with the same question 30 time , and when he game you a reply you dont like you even cheat your post when you report the discution...
i think this whole story show how useless you are , and how useless is that full thread....
did i miss something ?
you can speak with someone at MA , and the only stuff you manage to do is piss im off with the same question 30 time , and when he game you a reply you dont like you even cheat your post when you report the discution...
i think this whole story show how useless you are , and how useless is that full thread....
did i miss something ?
Yep, basically most. Look at previous posts carefully then you see what it is really about. So far you are typical representative of group which only argument in that whole discusion against whole idea of buying back CLD's by MA is that I missed prohpet answer on matter.
If thread is useless for you just find another one more interesting for you. Useless was your answer not adding anything for the matter.
JohnCapital
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Well, let's see:
- Missed it when it was originaly posted ingame
- Missed it when searching/copy/pasting for your OP
- Missed it when someone else posted screenshot in your own thread
Wrong. The difference between us is that I don't accuse MA of being thieves. I accuse them of being incompetent game managers, and I back up my accusations with verifiable facts from their actions in VU updates, how they handle certain problems, etc.
You, on the other hand, accuse them of something that, even if true, would be 100% impossible to prove. Then when finally able, you push your case and when presented with denial you say:
In essence you said "Ah-ha! Only someone guilty would deny it like that. Finally I have proof!"
Seriously. If you truly believe MA are "secretly" buying out CLDs (But not these over-balanced weapons/items you mentioned they admit they wish weren't ingame) and you truly believe this is such a bad thing for players, then...
Why. Are. You. Still. Here?
I'm being honest. If you think MA are trying to truly rip off players, leave. Save yourself.
Thark
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Hey,
again, I didn't read everything between shoti's post and this one.
I'm sorry but I don't quite understand everything you are saying. But I think we are talking about two different things.
You are talking about items which shouldn't be ingame. Which, you are right, MA has admitted they would like to see them gone (IMKII und Mod FAP). But they can't get rid of them, which has been stated several times already. They even go so far as to auction off those kind of items from banned accounts. (Or was that a legal thing?)
Anyway, I was talking about the ingame economy as a whole. This would be a very long post if I tried to explain it in detail, not that you would need me to, but in order to make clear what i meant.
Maybe I can give an example/analogy. thinking of it as a way way more complicated version of this example:
The first 2 players ingame depoed 10$ each so 100Ped per person or 200 ingame total. Now if a 10 Ped item was looted by one of those 2 players, the MU couldn't be higher than 190 ped. Now those 2 keep hunting until they lost everything except that 10 ped TT item. MA made 190 Ped. So they had 20$ in one bank account and now they can transfer those 19$ into their other one which holds the profits.
I know, I know it's much more complicated than that, but it shows quite well what I mean. So why in the world would MA keep those 19$ in limbo just because someone paid some "arbitrary" MU for it? People just think because they paid some amount for something, they should get it back. But the peds were there at one point, now they may be gone but that's how the system works... I think ;P
Again, I'm not sure I understand everything - Sorry, language barrier on both sides I guess
I have to say I disagree on more than one front here too.
First off, MA is not like the government, they don't "print" money. The PED-money ingame corresponds to real USD outside the game, in the books of the company. MA is, as far as I know, under very very strict scrutiny from Swedish authorities. I don't know why you would assume that a company who wants to be a bank, who struggles with accusations of gambling would ever try to pull off something so, if not illigal, crazy risky. If anybody ever got wind of it, I don't know if they could withstand it as a company. It also shouldn't be too hard to figure out those shenanigans when you look at their books.
Second, Hell F*ing yeah I expect MA to use real money to buy stuff, otherwise they screw with their books. If they wanted to get rid of stuff and wanted it to be legal, they have to use real money, or quote the EULA and just take it from you, which they can according to the EULA, all they'd have to pay you is the tt value.
The inflation part is, well not wrong. But PE's economy is different than real lifes, because in RL when you do something or make something out of something, it generally becomes more valuable (wood -> chair). So the amount of value grows, in PE it generally declines. Which makes comparisons to RL very tricky. But I agree, pumping PEDs into the game would in theory mitigate that a little, although even 100k ped would be fairly negligible.
I don't know where you get the idea that the dollar fluctuations would have anything to do with anything? it's 1$ =10 Ped no matter what? Do you mean that when people depo with other currencies? Well at some point it's converted and thus is in the books with a specific value. I don't see how the $/Eur, $/AUD or $/JPY would influence anything? maybe I just don't get this one?
The last thing is pure speculation right? I mean one could argue the same thing for cars in RL. If noone bought them anymore the price would crash? It sounds like a weird analogy because we can't imagine it really. But why do you think the prices are massively too high? That's a feeling right? I mean it's totally possible and hell I wouldn't even really argue against you for some items. I disagree though that all prices are too high. Even the argument that resellers keep them high artificially doesn't make sense if you think about it. It's not like they would/could suddenly disappear without anyone stepping up. That's like saying what if we all bought all our stuff in parts directly from the factories instead of from stores.
Really long post, sorry for it. Maybe I made myself clearer now. I wish I could write those kind of things in german xD
Best regards
Thark
again, I didn't read everything between shoti's post and this one.
I'm sorry but I don't quite understand everything you are saying. But I think we are talking about two different things.
You are talking about items which shouldn't be ingame. Which, you are right, MA has admitted they would like to see them gone (IMKII und Mod FAP). But they can't get rid of them, which has been stated several times already. They even go so far as to auction off those kind of items from banned accounts. (Or was that a legal thing?)
Anyway, I was talking about the ingame economy as a whole. This would be a very long post if I tried to explain it in detail, not that you would need me to, but in order to make clear what i meant.
Maybe I can give an example/analogy. thinking of it as a way way more complicated version of this example:
The first 2 players ingame depoed 10$ each so 100Ped per person or 200 ingame total. Now if a 10 Ped item was looted by one of those 2 players, the MU couldn't be higher than 190 ped. Now those 2 keep hunting until they lost everything except that 10 ped TT item. MA made 190 Ped. So they had 20$ in one bank account and now they can transfer those 19$ into their other one which holds the profits.
I know, I know it's much more complicated than that, but it shows quite well what I mean. So why in the world would MA keep those 19$ in limbo just because someone paid some "arbitrary" MU for it? People just think because they paid some amount for something, they should get it back. But the peds were there at one point, now they may be gone but that's how the system works... I think ;P
Again, I'm not sure I understand everything - Sorry, language barrier on both sides I guess
I have to say I disagree on more than one front here too.
First off, MA is not like the government, they don't "print" money. The PED-money ingame corresponds to real USD outside the game, in the books of the company. MA is, as far as I know, under very very strict scrutiny from Swedish authorities. I don't know why you would assume that a company who wants to be a bank, who struggles with accusations of gambling would ever try to pull off something so, if not illigal, crazy risky. If anybody ever got wind of it, I don't know if they could withstand it as a company. It also shouldn't be too hard to figure out those shenanigans when you look at their books.
Second, Hell F*ing yeah I expect MA to use real money to buy stuff, otherwise they screw with their books. If they wanted to get rid of stuff and wanted it to be legal, they have to use real money, or quote the EULA and just take it from you, which they can according to the EULA, all they'd have to pay you is the tt value.
The inflation part is, well not wrong. But PE's economy is different than real lifes, because in RL when you do something or make something out of something, it generally becomes more valuable (wood -> chair). So the amount of value grows, in PE it generally declines. Which makes comparisons to RL very tricky. But I agree, pumping PEDs into the game would in theory mitigate that a little, although even 100k ped would be fairly negligible.
I don't know where you get the idea that the dollar fluctuations would have anything to do with anything? it's 1$ =10 Ped no matter what? Do you mean that when people depo with other currencies? Well at some point it's converted and thus is in the books with a specific value. I don't see how the $/Eur, $/AUD or $/JPY would influence anything? maybe I just don't get this one?
The last thing is pure speculation right? I mean one could argue the same thing for cars in RL. If noone bought them anymore the price would crash? It sounds like a weird analogy because we can't imagine it really. But why do you think the prices are massively too high? That's a feeling right? I mean it's totally possible and hell I wouldn't even really argue against you for some items. I disagree though that all prices are too high. Even the argument that resellers keep them high artificially doesn't make sense if you think about it. It's not like they would/could suddenly disappear without anyone stepping up. That's like saying what if we all bought all our stuff in parts directly from the factories instead of from stores.
Really long post, sorry for it. Maybe I made myself clearer now. I wish I could write those kind of things in german xD
Best regards
Thark
Indeed, and I am aware is hard to belive that. Admited and explained right after someone pointed that out. You hook on that like it would be most important thing in the thread. I would gladly edit 1st post rightt after, but i am aware it would bring new wave of cpt.obvious who would coment more on that mistake, so i left it as is. All who want look how and why this hapened may get back to first few pages.
Already said that MA oficial deny would weaken this hipothesis. Look here:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...s-questions)&p=3316254&viewfull=1#post3316254
I don't acuse them of being thieves either. Please show me where I said that they are thieves ?
Iam accusing them of being incompetent RCE managers with potential to blow it with inflation. Noone so far show anything which would prove it wrong. I am not cow, I can change my view if i get decent argument.
I could also accuse you of not reading well, but in this particular thread it would be hipocrysy
Nope thats not essence, thats tiny rock to garden of that case. More important things like precedence with Hammer Overdrive, actual dyvidende, CLD's price itself and their aviablity lead to this hipothesis. Prophet being slow and PR corect is maybe 1/100 of it.
Why I am here ? I still like this game, like soc ,friends, SF theme, clima, sharp brained comunity and RCE...thats why I am worried. Unfortunately my money are not here anymore except few peds for fun. I used to keep 50k - 100K $ here, but MA actions showed me they are not safe anymore. I gladly start treating this game again as good business oportuinity when few things change. See small improvement in few areas, but that is not it yet. Not even like it used to be.
So as you see I am save already, thats why I can alow myself for such doubts on public like presented in this thread.
Also "rip off" as you called it is too strong for planed devaluation+inflation streched for over 2 years, between 2 RL crysises...as I said before it would be MA briliant bussiness move, but I don't have to like it.
WhiningSkeptic
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Q&As for the masses is a waste. If MA ever wants to make a decent Q&A it needs to be limited to invited guests.
Sissi
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and on what basis should MA make that very special invitation?
There have been successful attempts in the past with threads where any1 could post question(s) for a given time period that were answered later.
I think those kind of items was quite long in limbo due to some court procedings made by some banned ava. There was threads about it on forum. If I recall corectly part of setlement was to sell those things on auction. If MA did that once i gues they like beter to do that with other banned account things as there was precedence already and they want avoid another long court setlements
Well, in perfect world when 2 players depo 20$ and eventualy degradate it to 19$ ma should keep kind of reserve to be able fulfill withdraw request ( i think MU is irevelant here, as it is set by that 2nd player anyway - without buyer even gazzilion % of MU is just...well, a wish of seler ). Unfortunately MA took those 20 $ and paid it's electricity bill for 5$ so when those guys want withdraw 19$ they need to wait for 3rd guy to depo lacking 4 $
Basically number of PED's in circualtion shall be only those equvalent of deposits. This number is small % larger that depos becourse of initial start of Project Entropia had to had some peds in system already ( imagine 1st non depositor in game looting ped's in loot like it used to be )
Again, I'm not sure I understand everything - Sorry, language barrier on both sides I guess
I feel sometimes same
I think MA is like government here. Even like gods ! They not only can inject any amount of PED's they want into economy, but also materialise items,buildings etc. Ofc they dont do that in order to maintain this delicate economy. As for their books and scrutiny from authorites - I think thats why they have problem to become Bank ( they tried ). Because banks have to keep reserves as part of deposits ( in my country 10%). As we can see from MA annual reports they don;t have enough money to pay even TT value to ppl in case of "bank run" let alone MU. In books their incomes is straight diference between depos and withsrawals , so what they do "meanwhile" to keep 1st number bigger than 2nd is solely their problem, and no authority can regulate that ( as long they are not bank or casino )
Agree 100%...Eventual buying CLD's might be 1st ocasion for them, 1st temptation to try to eat cake and keep cake. It is possible to get CLD's back and not spend real $ for that just PED's. They are half way there....$ were already deposited to buy initialy released CLD's.
It is because fixed exchange rate betwen PED and USD. If USD rise in value and you can buy more for it in RL same occurs here. You may buy more things or same things but more expensive. Even if thats same 10$ or same 100peds it all about their "purchasing power". Inflation cause rise of prices, so inflation of USD cause rise of prices inside EU. We might be witnesing atm price rise due to inflation not catching up with devaluation of goods ingame due its low quality ( example ) which will be witnesed like price balance or slight price drop.
In otehr words USA monetary policy can have greater impact on prices in EU than MA and its balancing manager.
Yes, this is speculation. When Mod Fap was 300 000 ped there was also people speculating that price is ok and buying it at that price. It hard to comment on that as 10 $ for someone may be almost nothing and for other montly salary. 100000 PED's could be also. There is posibility to value that for specific person, but you have to know what that person is able to earn RL in certain time. Then you make similar here. Checking value of investment vs incomes it is making and compare to RL.
I think most things like gear is overvaluated by players comparing it's price to potential gain it may bring in reasonable time. Then comparing that to RL financial situation of average european player. Strangely most of uber gear is more ovewrvaluated than CLD's if you use this methodology.
So until some kind of "bank run" or realy bad sentiment for a game most items price is quite safe here. However when crash starts it is usualy to late to do anything. It is realy fast in RL and in such small economy it really could be hours only. We already seen 50%+ depreciations on various items overnight ( f.e. rocktropia scaners )
Best form was already performed..they gathered Questions on forum and then Submited answer. They have time, there were no comunication problems, and all questions were answered.
They shall making such session at least twice a year.
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Top 10 depositors for the last year, also to get invited they would have to double their sums. If MA promise to reveal all the scariest shit to those chosen, deposits will skyrocket!
Sissi
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Top 10 depositors for the last year, also to get invited they would have to double their sums. If MA promise to reveal all the scariest shit to those chosen, deposits will skyrocket!
Will EMW post questions while drunk I wonder
good that Kimmi seems to be selling out...
Thark
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Hey,
I don't really wanna get into an economy discussion on a game forum, especially not in English. I'm sorry. So I'll just tap out.
But maybe you could think about a few things in your post again, there are a few assumptions, premises and conclusions that are simply incorrect. No offense! I just don't wanna get into it, I hope you understand.
Best regards
Thark
I don't really wanna get into an economy discussion on a game forum, especially not in English. I'm sorry. So I'll just tap out.
But maybe you could think about a few things in your post again, there are a few assumptions, premises and conclusions that are simply incorrect. No offense! I just don't wanna get into it, I hope you understand.
Best regards
Thark
whiteknut
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2014-11-25 09:52:47 [Local] [Mindark Official Prophet] Well the problems with the unbalanced swords right now is that Next Island did not adjust them
this text makes me curious.
But yeah its almost as if it was about to be changed, but luckily they are all quite low dmg and if no amps on them, i think MA can manage without changing stats.