Mindark Official Prophet at Twins (Amps and CLD's questions)

shoti or anyone else have any other Q's & A's from that chat. Maybe there was someone there who actually asked some intelligent Q's...

Perhaps he was called prophet to reveal to us some upcoming changes in new VU. Anyone ask q's about that?

whiteknut said:

Force majeure or if too difficult then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_God

If you ever buy something with loan in real life, you better stay away from reading loan contracts... there are some nasty points in them.

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Actually I was only familiar with the original term "vis major" and never thought about it as they first list stuff that are this category then add "Act of god", seems redundant in retrospect.

@ Whiteknut

from what i mentioned previously here

shoti said:

Ok. Here is my idea what laying behind :

1. MA deal with SEE failed, they urgently need 6 M $
2. They released CLD's and gathered money thay needed
3. After 2 years they realised that giving away 50% of income is not as good as they tought at begining. They deceided to remove large chunk of that liablity.
4. They liquidated 1st chunk with buying back from Maxime Overdrive Hammer ( guy who bought 25K of them )
5. As buying big amount cannot pass unseen they started buying small stack or even piece by piece by "printed" peds. They have all tools needed to check even a bit habbits of person they are buying. In most cases amount like 1200-1500 will not be withdrawn. Even if it's again printed/inflated peds - no big risk for them.
6. As results there will be only small % of initial CLD's left floating market. And most of that remainings will be in hands of few big holders.
7. Dilutting that proces and streching it over time help keep it unnoticed
8. Result "1"of such action's will be low aviablity of CLD's on market, resulting in price increase of them - at this point they have to slow down ,observe and adapt. We see that already as CLD's price rise is not backet by adequate increse in payouts.
9. Result "2" will be inflating prices on literaly everything inside EU for a degree at wchich PED's from MA CLD's buyback leave the game (not significant if ma did their job properly, but always something)
10. All mentioned in point 9 ,executed under bad market sentiment conditions will make false look of economical recovery as under "fundamental" circumstances prices are inflated anyway.

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...part already hapened, and rest is going on already. By inflated prices I had ofc prices ingame in mind. Also doing that officialy would be undesirable for 2 reasons. No economical gain for MA and risk of panic.

Svarog said:

Even if they do it, you can't expect their official to admit it
I can't believe that you just allow for such a possibility AND still trust them a pec - if I had a grain of doubt, I'd withdraw immediately (unless I wasn't afraid to lose my ingame money, but then I wouldn't care much for MA's shenanigans either).

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I am already in EU at 1/100 level of what i used to be last years, so no big lose for me even if all hell break loose.Aready sold LA's, CLD's and precious gear. If that ever happen, is not like MA is sitting and waiting for disaster. They are quite smart.There was signs before, especialy their annual yearly reports. So actualy I am not finacialy involved here, rather L gear user and popcorn eater watching whole that situation.

Just lately, maybe few months ago all that picture start be clear for me and some convergencies betwen situation ingame, MA financial situation and RL financial situation start be clear for me.

I am not saying "sky is falling" etc, and it is very good that MA is making what it can to improve their economics. All I am pointing out are potential consequences for average player and optimistic investors.

If MA is buying out CLD's back it is as clever as sneaky !

Either:-

a) you are totally correct - and if so I doubt a official MA rep would confirm this in public chat ingame
b) you are totally wrong - in which case I doubt the official MA rep even knew what ur talking about and hence would not confirm anything

So based on the reaction its impossible to determine. An absence of proof is not in itself proof!

imo there are some fights worth fighting..... this is not one of them!!

If TT accept CLD then MA is buying.
So who is going to test that ?

Now I understand the general lack of communication from MA, after seeing the ridiculous questions they have to answer. Why would they even bother with this? lol
Did anyone ask the official anything interesting or was the opportunity completely wasted?

Leave MA to do there job, if you really don't believe they are what they say send a report to the authorities.

Lorthis said:

Now I understand the general lack of communication from MA, after seeing the ridiculous questions they have to answer. Why would they even bother with this? lol
Did anyone ask the official anything interesting or was the opportunity completely wasted?

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The situation was wasted when Mindark decided to make an unannounced Q&A. Would have asked if social aspect is an important part of EU (in regards of FL not working).

Conspiracy theories and tin foil hats are incredibly tedious. Every day someone wants to break the story that mindark is doing something clever and sneaky.. giving them far too much credit. Spending your time looking for what is not there, being chicken little, only helps your cause to make it come to fruition.

But you need to remember that I wouldn't expect them to say any more or less since anything they say could and will effect the economy. Go to any PR and ask these type of questions as well and you will get the same answer. But interesting and cool that someone from MA did show up at Twins or in game even.

Sissi said:

The situation was wasted when Mindark decided to make an unannounced Q&A.

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What Q&A? The guy was just cornered and interrogated

It's not that rare to spot a MA official on Caly these days (that Lupus guy sometimes stays silently for hours in Icarus), doesn't mean they're there to answer questions. They're watching

In the end, all potential questions fall in 2 categories: rhetoric ones (those about broken systems fall here) and those they prefer not to answer to (these will yield you a "can't comment on that"/"not my area of knowledge" at best). Even the official Q&As/interviews are full of it, so why bother? If only for social aspect of it

shoti said:

even MA ? If yes tell me if you think also that they deposited to buy some ?

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I know two players who never deposited any money, they play, they own good gear and they bought few CLDs as well...
Are you saying that they have CLDs illegally because they did not deposited to buy them??

As someone said already, MA will have to cover withdrawal PED of anybody who would sell them, si it's not an issue.

And frankly I see no problem with MA/PC buying them back from voluntary sellers if they pay market value (and what you say that allegedly MA is driving prices up would be against them, because they would need to pay more if they would be buying back).

too bad i missed it, nice he logged in even if not outcome judging by what were the Q's.
who was it anyway ? John Bates ?

Hey,

I didn't read the thread.

Did you leave out the part where he says he can officially deny it on purpose? You prolly missed it, as it was in between the lines you highlighted.

Here is the screenshot.




PS: Thanks Serica for making my picture clickable

Teiwaz Storm said:

I know two players who never deposited any money, they play, they own good gear and they bought few CLDs as well...
Are you saying that they have CLDs illegally because they did not deposited to buy them??

As someone said already, MA will have to cover withdrawal PED of anybody who would sell them, si it's not an issue.

And frankly I see no problem with MA/PC buying them back from voluntary sellers if they pay market value (and what you say that allegedly MA is driving prices up would be against them, because they would need to pay more if they would be buying back).

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As for your CLD owning friends....no. I am not telling anything like that. No idea where u get such conclusion from

As for MA buying CLD's if thats ok or not depend on where peds to obtain them come from. If they were created by MA just for that purpose and pick for boughts was selective to assure those peds stay ingame and eventualy beconsumed by system then yes, I think it is bad.

Lorthis said:

Now I understand the general lack of communication from MA, after seeing the ridiculous questions they have to answer. Why would they even bother with this? lol
Did anyone ask the official anything interesting or was the opportunity completely wasted?

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Everybody is interested in something. I was on amps and CLD's. There are also no ridicuulous questions... but there might be stupid answers.

"VU will contain content and patch notes". I love that guy
Exactly what I said, smoke and mirrors.

Svarog said:

"VU update will contain content and patch notes". I love that guy
Exactly what I said, smoke and mirrors.

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What you expect with a name like prophet.....

shoti said:

Ok. Here is my idea what laying behind :

1. MA deal with SEE failed, they urgently need 6 M $
2. They released CLD's and gathered money thay needed
3. After 2 years they realised that giving away 50% of income is not as good as they tought at begining. They deceided to remove large chunk of that liablity.[...]

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excellent, so in your view they needed $6m and they didnt consider the reduced revenue. and now.. they dont need that $6m? they've found some money elsewhere so can buy back the CLD...

shoti said:

Problem is that they can created PED's out of thin air. Maybe that's even their 1st time (so far was ped's for pixels which was ok in such bussines modell).

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ah, no of course not. in classic conspriacy theorising, when faced with a obvious flaw in the reasoning, we insert a second conspiracy to support the first, rather then reassess our original theory. so, to recap MA (not Planet Calypso who are responsible for the CLDs) are covertly crediting people with PED that havent been deposited for CLDs, to lower their liabilities (of PED that *could* be withraw). which also means increasing the revenue of Planet Calypso, not MA.

top work there.

shoti said:

As for MA buying CLD's if thats ok or not depend on where peds to obtain them come from. If they were created by MA just for that purpose and pick for boughts was selective to assure those peds stay ingame and eventualy beconsumed by system then yes, I think it is bad.

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It is no different than shrapnel.
Creating peds that will stay in the game.

Get real. If you want to wear a tinfoil hat on this topic then you should make it something that is actually bad.

For example: Not just buying clds but buying AND selling based on updates and changes that effect the economy that the player base can not know about at the time. "Insider trading"

But seriously who cares if they print ped to buy colds from us for more than we bought them for? If you hit the withdraw button they will still back it and pay you. (In three months of Wednesdays)

The price on CLDs are probably high because the big majority that owns them are, even if the ROI is lower compared from the start, happy with the return. Some of them are interested to buy more, driving up the price even with a decline in the payouts. The ones that are unhappy with the ROI and the short-term investors have probably already sold them off, the ones left are the investors and players that have them for the long run. Limited supply, higher price.

I do not think MA is buying back CLD.

But, you have to not have payed much attention if you think MA can back up every ped ingame with dollars. They can not, that's old news. But that doesen't mean they are going to go bankrupt. And I am sure their long term goal is still to be able to cover all peds.

Lighterthief said:

So based on the reaction its impossible to determine. An absence of proof is not in itself proof!

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You know nothing about conspiracy theory!!

ma can probly cover the tt value of the peds ingame just the mu on the item that for the players to pay for it not ma

so them fab that say there worth 100k peds ma only have to pay the tt value the rest come out of the players buying and selling

for me ma should buy ever cld they can get there had on that way the dept is paid the other way is like have having a credit card and only paying interest on it so hoo pays in the end the players cost of playing goes up

why buy back what never left your hands (or the hands of your secret alts?)

Two meta-questions:

1) Was there any other Q/A:s besides Next Island swords and buyback of CLDs?

2) Any hint of when next Q/A moment would be?

Unvinsible said:

I am sure their long term goal is still to be able to cover all peds.

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what exacly do you meen by that? that MA put more peds ingame that there is worth the value in USD?

if thats the case its time to sell out for sure.

Shoti is confusing three issues and knotting them together. 1) Suspicion MA (or Planet Calypso actually) is buying back CLDs, 2) Suspicion MA is creating PED out of thin air 3) There seems to be fewer CLDs on the market.

On the first point, there's nothing wrong with MA (or Calypso) buying back the CLD. They're like high yield bonds - RL companies buy those back all the time. Heck, in real life, companies often have a built in redemption price they can buy them back for which limits the the upside gain the public can get. If the seller's happy with the price they're getting and MA is happy with the price they're paying, no one else's opinion matters at all.

Second, if someone at MA wanted to do some funny business with creating PED they could do it very easily. If they are doing this, (Which I don't believe is happening) then the Real Cash concept of EU is seriously flawed. There would be much bigger issues - MA wouldn't care about making PED payments because they would have an infinite amount of PED / PED would be worthless.

Last, it is not surprising there are fewer CLDs on the market. If an Uber is thinking of quitting EU because their life has changed and they have less free time, they have a choice to make after selling their gear & skills: Will they withdraw the PED or buy CLDs, and withdraw the income later? Since it takes 6 months to get the RL money (I've heard) they will be thinking in a longer term time frame. A few of them will probably happily park the PED in CLDs with a 15% return. If they have 100 CLDs, or more, they could log in every month or two to simply use the PED to buy more - at least until they don't think the return is worth the cost. At that point they could just start withdrawing the PED and there'd be no need to ever sell ==> Fewer CLD on the market.

Regarding the CLDs, their rise in value, and accusations that MindArk is buying them up.

I am not one of the people who think that MA is buying up CLD

Anything is possible but MA is a bit smarter than that because right now the CLD value is up near another peak, and MindArk, at least if I were them and wanted to buy back CLD, i would be doing it when the values are low and not high.

Seeing as how I am a reseller of unlimited items usually in the value range of 5K to 40K, I get a pretty accurate real-time picture of what the EU economy is like. CLDs arent the only thing selling. I am directly aware of many new players spending a TON of peds on various items including CLD. Other resellers of similar items also confirm that they see this trend.

Bottom line is that there is a lot of new money in the game. Im seeing many new players wanting to spend 100K and more on things. There is also a lot of returning money from old players coming back. On top of that, we are entering the winter season which is always the most active time economically. Spending increases, people upgrade equipment, they cycle peds, and they deposit frequently. All of those things also have a big impact on the value of CLD.

Hey,

So wait, the MA official said that he can officially deny that MA is buying back any CLD. Why are you guys saying stuff like "I don't think/believe MA is buying back CLD"? do you think they lie like that about those kind of things?

Few other things:
A.) Buying back stuff is totally legit. And they deny they do it.
B.) Ofc MA doesn't have the Peds to cover the MU of all items that's just silly. Think about it, it doesn't even make any sense what so ever that they would. I can't even find a good analogy for it, it's so nonsensical. Colorless green ideas sleep furiously?!
C.) Creating peds out of thin air? That doesn't make any sense what so ever either. Too long a day at work today and just typing the first thing that comes to mind w/o thinking? That's not how math, economics, book keeping and legal stuff and all that works (sorry, I don't know the english terms - you know what I mean, running a business).

or did I miss something and we are just talking about crazy conspiracy theories and it's all ironic? If that's so than my favorite has got to be the one about the white lines planes leave behind. The one where the government puts particles in that so that we all become zombies or something.


Regards
Thark

Holy crap, Shoti, this is real low of you.

Just because CLD prices went up and available quantities went down, you come up with some cockamamie theory of MA buying back in secret?

And then when you have a real Mindark Official available, you start hounding him about this. And no matter what what he says, you "narrate" it into your conspiracy theory. He could have said "yes", "no" or "kiss my ass" and you would have said "yeah well that's exactly what you would say in order to try to cover up your actions".

And then Thark comes along with this post (#44 in this thread), proving that you "conveniently left out the part where he made an official denial.

I compared his screen shot with your 1st post. Seems you somehow skipped it. Here, let me show you where.

shoti said:

10:06:07 [Local] [Shogomad Shoti 1st] In other words it is possible MA is buying CLD's back from market as you cannot deny that officialy ?

<RIGHT HERE IS WHERE HE DID DENY IT, BUT YOU DIDN'T POST THAT, DID YOU?>

10:07:11 [Local] [Mindark Official Prophet] IF you think about it Shogomad it is ilogical for Ma to do that

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I bet you saw that comment of his quite clearly, as you were pasting your OP together. But I guess that part just didn't fit in your "narrative" so you skipped it, didn't you?

And then when the evidence is shown, you intentionally ignore it. I know damned well you saw Thark's post.

• His post was at 10:42 my time
• Your next post right after that, at 11:03
• The forum says your last activity was 11:46, an hour after that post.

Don't tell me you didn't see it. I know damned well you didn't. And that you replied to so many others, but ignored that one tells me you are hiding from Truth.


The one thing that pisses me off more than anything is people who intentionally lie in order to push their agenda. Here's a hint, detective: If you are truly in the right, there is NO reason, None, Zero, for you to have to intentionally twist things and lie. That you twisted things prove you are simply trying to push an agenda and are wiling to misrepresent to do that.

Frankly, the info about the melee amps was real cool of him to give us. Gee, sure would have been nice to get more good info. If only someone didn't hound him trying to prove their conspiracies.

Just because you tricked your family to give you tons of money to play (and lose) with, doesn't mean MA's trying to cheat you, man.