Harassment In Space - Support Case

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HardWrath

Marauder
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
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6,038
Location
Wisconsin, USA
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Freelancer
Avatar Name
Max HardWrath Mayhem
We all know how this current batch of pirates likes to harass people and worse... This is from today.

This is the support case that I sent:

Today I was taking [name removed (he can post if he wants)] to Arkadia Underground... he wants a mining tower and I suggested Ark Underground and volunteered to Warp him there.

Thankfully the privateer I have right now has 43K SI

At about 10:00 In-game time... i left safe space. Bender Chances Mark II folowed me into lootable PvP and simply waited until I attempted a warp jump, at which point he shot one time. Chances already is familiar with the SI of the XXIV and he knows he cant shoot it down himself. He would need a lot of his friends to help.

I tried to jump again, and he shot once. Again I tried the same and again he shot once. Over and over. This happened a few times... Not trying to shoot me down but only shooting once to stop the warp. Naturally some words were exchanged in the chat between him and I and I pointed out that what he was doing was harassment. He didnt care and continued.

I flew the XXIV into CP safe space to dock and we got ammo because Chances was taunting my passenger to shoot back.

This of course is not possible because of how Privateer guns are designed... all that Chances has to do is hover around the opposite side of the ship which is exactly what he did.

Over and over he prevented the warp jump from happening.. 10 times I think.. It was nothing more than harassment.

How many other pilots would have just given up?

Here is a screenshot that caught part of it...



So finally he stopped and then I got the passenger to Arkadia. I came back and then went down to Calypso. Not long later, I got a PM from the guy, apparently he didnt get one find after two level 13 amps, so he wanted me to then fly back, pick him up, and then take him to FOMA so he could use the rest of his amps... ok.

Normally I dont fly people around but I owed this guy a favor so its fine.

As I'm leaving safe space, Chances follows... I have stackables on me but dont care because he will be needing a lot of help in order to shoot down a privateer with 43K SI... and he knows it.

Once again I attempted a warp jump and of course Chances is there to interrupt that again, and again, over and over while this guy is at Ark Underground waiting on me to pick him up so he can SPEND PEDS with level 13 mining amps at FOMA.

This time I didnt even speak in chat knowing that eventually Chances was going to get bored or run out of ammo.... We were going to stay there until either he stopped, or my ship blew up... and even if that happened (which would have taken a long time) I doubt Chances can shoot through my avatar's armor with his Quad (L).

Here is a screenshot that I took afterwards of the damage messages.



Anyway, as Chances was screwing with me, Ulf from MindArk responded to my support case and I got the notification in game just as Chances was shooting. (I'm sure Chances was wondering what I was doing since I stopped trying to warp for a minute or so :laugh:)

Here it is:



Here is the text version:

2014-12-05 11:00 Entropia Universe Support:


Hi HardWrath,

Thank you for your report.

We will investigate the matter, we agree that doing this is simply harassment which is not something we approve off.

As you know we do not discuss cause of action towards other avatars but we will see what will come out of this case.

Kind regards,
Ulf | Entropia Universe Support

With the reply, Ulf closed the support case but since Chances was at it again, I felt that opening a new support case on the same subject was needed.

On 2014-12-05 11:02:10 you wrote:
RE: My last support case.. im in space now.. chances is doing the same thing over and over..

Right now its happening. See for your self

[System] [Max HardWrath Mayhem]: [58782, 69685, -203]

I didn't hear or see anything but a minute or two later Chances stopped shooting and I was able to jump to warp.

For those of you that don't know, when a Privateer or Mothership is trying to jump to warp, getting shot or doing repairs will interrupt that warp jump. Warp jumps work just like a giant Teleportation chip does on the planet, when a mob attacks you, it interrupts the TP jump and you have to try again. Its the same thing with warping. Its simply a giant TP chip with fancy graphics... thats the best way to explain it.

I would be 100% ok with Chances attacking me and shooting for the purpose of blowing up my ship and looting me. Thats the game in space and I like that game and I like the concept... But what he was doing simply was designed to interfere with my game play and more importantly, the game play of my passenger which is by definition harassment.

Its not an exploit, the system is designed for that exact result to happen.. the warp process being interrupted by an attack, just like a TP chip... What the feature is intended for is to interrupt the warp jump so the attackers can blow up the ship or get blown up trying... But the way Chances is abusing that feature simply is harassment.
 
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Looking at the first image, Chances hints at knowledge of your passenger. Perhaps it is him that he has an issue with.

Either way, this sort of warp interruption with no intention of destroying the vessel is nothing new in game. IIRC MindArk even wrote code to prevent it happening at one point in the past, but only as a temporary measure.
 
We need antibuliing consorcium or something.
I think SC have idea to deal with such harasment by ingame means and not taking support time:

INDEPENDENT ARBITRATOR’S GUILD – Have you been wronged by your superiors? Has the member of your organization entrusted with watching the funds, been watching them go into their own pocket? Think you don’t have any recourse? You’re wrong. Fully licensed and bonded to work within the UEE and beyond, the Independent Arbitrator’s Guild allows citizens (and civilians, we don’t discriminate!) to file complaints against (or within) private organizations. Petition cases with our IAG representatives to have your voice heard and restitutions made. Is your business less than legitimate? IAG is only here to judge the matters you want us to. Confidentiality is guaranteed.

may be we can have something like this here
 
Looking at the first image, Chances hints at knowledge of your passenger. Perhaps it is him that he has an issue with.

Nope.. Chances only knows of the passenger's name. They don't know each other

Chances is well known for doing this exact kind of thing to numerous people. Recently I've become semi-active in space again and as a result I've been warned by people of him and others from his society doing this exact thing to people.

Regardless though.. even an interpersonal dispute between people is not justification for interfering and disrupting that person's game play.
 
I'm sure he got a red MA message to stop what he is doing. Thats why he stop shoot at you.
 
Welcome to 2014 version of pvp in EU, unfortunatley this is what EU pvp has become.

Peoples only intent these days is not to win, have fun and pvp.

Its to make the oponents cost, frustration and even better both as high as possible.

Its indeed a bad route, and its hard not to get cynical and jump on the wagon...
 
Saying this is harrassment is a cop out by MA. They designed the game that allowed this to be done.

How this should work is it should be possible for the privateer to shoot down one little quad.
 
I understand how this is annoy.

Although the below sums it up.



tumblr_lae7ftwii01qa55edo1_500.jpg


Hopefully when they introduce Space 2.0 we will see an improvement.
 
Welcome to 2014 version of pvp in EU, unfortunatley this is what EU pvp has become.

Peoples only intent these days is not to win, have fun and pvp.

Its to make the oponents cost, frustration and even better both as high as possible.

Its indeed a bad route, and its hard not to get cynical and jump on the wagon...

I agree 100%

As things are now, the only way to deal with this sort of thing is a support case and then bring the matter to the forum. You cant just roll over and take it. I reviewed PCF rules before posting.. there is no scamming or exploit accusation, all is good unless I go in too deep with Chances by fighting in the thread. So, Ill try to not dominate the thread with frequent posts.

Edit: trying not to take the bait :computer: :censored:


The simple solution here would be for MindArk to implement a pilot controlled turret on the front and back of the Privater or Mothership... Ones that can be operated while flying, same range as a Quad, less damage than main guns.. similar damage/reload to a quad gun. Make it easy to use, select the target (no aiming needed for the pilot because he is the one flying), make it so the turrets auto-aim, all the pilot has to do is fire the turret with an Icon from the Action Library. From there we can handle the rest. :)

With that, this kind of stupid stuff would not happen. If you are gonna approach a quad or mothership, you better be ready for a fight and you better be there to blow it up, else you will be blown up.

The implementation of such a feature would cause pirates to form packs (more than they do now) which in-turn would motivate pilots to have active gunners on board more often to counterbalance packs of pirates... with all of this happening I think it would be closer to what MindArk envisioned space to be like.
 
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Shields are the answer to this.
Lasting long enough to warp but with a cooldown so they cant constantly be used and of course provide sufficient gun positions on a privateer so it can be defended from any angle.
ie. if the shooter can shoot you , then you can shoot him too.

I also think that the pirates have been already warned about this activity, looks like they didnt listen.
 
i had the similar experience once too, not with same guy, can't even rememeber who it was, i just flew to training grounds where he would be attacked by mobs and die eventually. this one didn't even bother to fly into training grounds because he knew he would die. so in training grounds it was easy to do the warp.
 
If i was support i would give you this answer.

Dear User

We understand that you have entered a lootable area with a weapons capable ship. If you would like instructions on how to plan or use the weapons on youre ship then i would be happy to point you to "user manual". You will discover that you have a choice of letting the enemy keep disrupting youre warp OR to eliminate the enemy with youre superior weapons.

Regards

SUpp#rt

Edit : Id neg rep you too, but ive had my bottle already. So i'll take youre neg and raise you a smile ;) son ^^
 
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I've seen the same thing happen when a MS owner was streaming one time.. I forget who it was exactly but even I was annoyed when watching the stream. Looks like there might be a good business for escort ships to fly out with the MS to protect it from these annoying interruptions
 
Although it sure looks like harrassment i think it is not as clear as that.

Scenario
Pirate sees ship he cant täke down and want to take it down with friend but sees ship starting warp sequence.
He shoots to delay it
over and over
until friends arrive and they take down the ship.
I wouldnt call it harrassment but just regular pirate tactic, as the reason behind this is to get your loot and not to waste your time.

Scenario 2
Pirate does it cause he is payed to do it by your comptetitor
again not harassment but way to make money

Scenario 3
he does it to harass you
Now that is harassment.

As space is 100% free choice to go to, i think it would be wrong to say it is always harassment.

Ah one example where it is harassment:

Players is in one of the space stations without planet nearby(so it is nothing for player to do(he cant enter planet and is stuck) and wants to fly away but 5 guys are waiting and shooting it down every time he tried to leave space station. (in this case there is no gain for pirates except to harass)
 
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Oh come on, stop this stupid whining !

I hate this freaking childish crybabing, it's the same as when me and several people received multiple times warnings from MA about shooting people at rig and in PVP4, like WHAT THE HECK!!!

It's a freaking PVP zone!!!

I agree with Goldie about what support should reply to you.

Pecka
 
I would suggest, get a crew.

A privateer with a gunner or 2 and a decent pilot can easily take out a single quad. Of course, the gunner and pilots need to work together as a team or the quad can avoid them. I've worked with several good crews in space, so know first hand what a well trained crew is capable of.
 
LOL and neg rep for me also ??
Oh you shouldnt have... :cool:


Honestly you should just <removed> shoot back...
The passanger you were flying just won $20000 ... surely he could have afforded to shoot back - 4 shots and my quad would be toast.

But instead you <replaced with: post> to the forums and to MA ...
They wont do shit because your in PVP <removed>
 
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hmmm...

it is pvp, system is designed to have pirates, system is designed so you can defend yourself...
so perhaps defend yourself?
you know what can happen, you (i think) should know what could be done against...
 
FYI... :laugh:

2014-12-05 09:50:52 [TO : ****] wanna have some fun ?
2014-12-05 09:50:55 [TO : ****] come on mumble quick
2014-12-05 09:51:10 [TO : ****] ima stop <removed> from warping
2014-12-05 09:54:03 [TO : ****] [58752, 69504, -55]
 
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hmmm...

it is pvp, system is designed to have pirates, system is designed so you can defend yourself...
so perhaps defend yourself?
you know what can happen, you (i think) should know what could be done against...

Is there no longer a range difference between the kismet and privateer guns now?
 
hmmm...

it is pvp, system is designed to have pirates, system is designed so you can defend yourself...
so perhaps defend yourself?
you know what can happen, you (i think) should know what could be done against...

Actually the way that its designed, you can not defend yourself. The passenger did get ammo and wanted to shoot but instead of engaging what Chances does is hide <removed> in the Privateer's blind spots. The pilot has no way to shoot (because there is no gun for the pilot) and then the gunner has no way to shoot because the gun is severely limited in where it can be aimed at. In their current design, Privateers are 100% defenseless.

Sure a gunner could switch seats and go to the other side on a different gun but then the attacking quad just has to fly to the other side. It takes longer for the gunner to move seats than it does the Quad to move. Additionally, with all the bugs in space, you can only switch seats a couple of times before your avatar ends up outside of the privateer, or stuck in the seat, at which point you have to press T and wait.

This is the whole reason why SI is so very important. A privateer + passenger/gunner have no ability to shoot a quad thats in close range and aware of how to use the privateer's blind spots. Zero chance.. Its not possible to fight which my passenger found out today.

In all the VIP warps I've done as a paying customer on people's privateers and motherships, I have yet to see an operational crew there for the purposes of passenger flight. They ONLY would be there if the ship is going to go hunting space mobs.

The space system as it is now is 100% completely flawed from top to bottom.

FYI... :laugh:

2014-12-05 09:50:52 [TO : ****] wanna have some fun ?
2014-12-05 09:50:55 [TO : ****] come on mumble quick
2014-12-05 09:51:10 [TO : ****] ima stop <removed> from warping
2014-12-05 09:54:03 [TO : ****] [58752, 69504, -55]

Thanks.. just wanted to get that in a quote.
 
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Is there no longer a range difference between the kismet and privateer guns now?

don't know, never knew...but i am pretty sure one can manage to shoot someone down even if there is some kind of range differnece..
 
The space system as it is now is 100% completely flawed from top to bottom.

i don't wanna count how much warps i booked, how much thrusters i have burnt on interplanetary travel...
in a week of play i change planets like 10+ at minimum...
i hunted alot too in space...
so i don't know but for me space seems pretty ok...
 
i don't wanna count how much warps i booked, how much thrusters i have burnt on interplanetary travel...
in a week of play i change planets like 10+ at minimum...
i hunted alot too in space...
so i don't know but for me space seems pretty ok...

Haha... mr adjusted rainbow gun... if I looted that id also be happy with space ;P
Your the reason I stopped hunting dropships!!
Can I write a support case about this ??
Maybe Max can help me with it.
 
UPDATE:
Ulf answered my questions:


I'll answer your questions the best I can.

1.Is it ok to shoot down other ppl to get their loot in space?
A: Yes this is fully acceptable

2. Is it ok to shoot down (while being in team) other ppl to get their loot in space?
A: Yes this is fully acceptable

3.Is it ok to shoot warping spaceship to delay its warping and to wait for friends to join and help shoot down the ship?
A: This is a grey zone, it is not allowed to purposely destroy someone else's game experience by simply harassing them, this can be considered harassment if you'd just do it without a cause BUT since this is PVP why would you let an enemy escape? Of course you'd slow them down til your force can gather up and destroy the target, it is tactical and the correct choice given the opportunity, but it is close to harassment so keeping humble here is a good choice, if you openly taunt them or start an argument in chat it is easy for this to be turned against the pirate as more of harassment than a wish to actively PVP.

4.Is it ok to shoop warping space ship multiple times because friend is 10au away and wants to help me to shoot it down?
Same answer as above, it is all in how you perform this action of delaying them, being obnoxious and rude is not a good suggestion but if you keep within the rules this could still be acceptable but it still needs to be plausible that you are going to take it down, to do this and you only have say 1 friend and there is no way both of you together is going to take it down then it is pretty close to harassment again.

It is a grey zone and it is defined from case to case, if you have common sense and some manners non of these should be a problem.

Kind regards,
Ulf | Entropia Universe Support


Anyways +rep to Ulf for making it clear, if there is more than harassment into it, then it is allowed.
 
Haha... mr adjusted rainbow gun... if I looted that id also be happy with space ;P
Your the reason I stopped hunting dropships!!
Can I write a support case about this ??
Maybe Max can help me with it.

i already was in deep green when i looted that little thingy:D
 
i don't wanna count how much warps i booked, how much thrusters i have burnt on interplanetary travel...
in a week of play i change planets like 10+ at minimum...
i hunted alot too in space...
so i don't know but for me space seems pretty ok...

For paying customers of warp flights, space isnt bad.

You have to give a lot.... i mean a SHIT TON of respect to every active commercial warp pilot in space who takes paying customers from planet to planet because the amount of bugs and bullshit they have to put up with is unparalleled in EU. Its a ton of work and a huge investment and a whole list of ongoing issues that they have to tolerate and work around.

I hope that in the upcoming updates for space that a lot of the stuff gets fixed.
 
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