Menu
What's New
By:
Filters

What with detailed eco info ?

S

shoti

Deactivated Account
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Posts
4,634
Frome dev notes #3

[...]
A second and very important part of efficient hunting is to consider the relative cost of using a particular weapon, often referred to as weapon economy, usually measured as damage per PEC. This measures how efficiently, in terms of weapon decay and ammo consumption, a weapon produces each point of damage. An avatar will enjoy much better overall hunting results over time when using weapons with higher damage per pec. Many community websites, such as www.entropiawiki.com, offer detailed statistics on the economy of nearly all the various weapons available in Entropia Universe. The MindArk development team is also considering including more detailed economy statistics on the item information panel in an upcoming release to improve the availability of such information.
[...]

Anyone from MA/PCF staf can answer if those consideraton are acomplished and what was outcome ? Yes, No, soon, never ?
 
shoti said:
Frome dev notes #3

[...]
A second and very important part of efficient hunting is to consider the relative cost of using a particular weapon, often referred to as weapon economy, usually measured as damage per PEC. This measures how efficiently, in terms of weapon decay and ammo consumption, a weapon produces each point of damage. An avatar will enjoy much better overall hunting results over time when using weapons with higher damage per pec. Many community websites, such as www.entropiawiki.com, offer detailed statistics on the economy of nearly all the various weapons available in Entropia Universe. The MindArk development team is also considering including more detailed economy statistics on the item information panel in an upcoming release to improve the availability of such information.
[...]

Anyone from MA/PCF staf can answer if those consideraton are acomplished and what was outcome ? Yes, No, soon, never ?
Click to expand...


I used to prey to god for actual answers. Eventually you will figure out that's not how it works and then you will give up.

Points for trying though
 
Headline eco != bottomline eco

The risk here is: should a weapon's description include "2.9999 dpp", there would be much whining from people who tried to use it in contexts where said 2.9999 translates to 2.4444 bottomline dpp (e.g., shooting ambu (or any other high regen mob) with 20 dps).
 
Haruto Rat said:
Headline eco != bottomline eco

The risk here is: should a weapon's description include "2.9999 dpp", there would be much whining from people who tried to use it in contexts where said 2.9999 translates to 2.4444 bottomline dpp (e.g., shooting ambu (or any other high regen mob) with 20 dps).
Click to expand...

:scratch2: dpp = Damage Per Pec

That concept doesn't care about mob health or regen rate. Whether you shoot combibo young, or dasp stalker, high regen or low regen, you get the same amount of damage for the same cost.

However, there is no exact damage per pec, because the random range of potential damage (plus the variance based on individual avatar's skills) means a varying number each shot/swing.

What you really mean is actual exact cost (decay+ammo) per each use. This is the information that we all ask for, and again, that info cares not at all for regen or total health of the target.
 
We have already so many stats in weapons info window that additional DPP + DPS measured on average or oldschool way or any other MA want implement will not make big diference or mess, and will be very usefull addition.

DPP and DPS are already widely used by most of players anyway, and MA for sure realised that MA comunity is comunity which expect NUMBERS up to 4 decimals over "exceptional" , "fragile" etc. notes.
 
YES.

I can't wait it. Sadly when i asked this question few months ago it was moved from dev to wishlist :(.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
Isn`t a little boring if its all “plain in da face“?

You loot a new item - its part of the thrill and fun to do the fruit test to find out about eco.
 
Bear said:
Isn`t a little boring if its all “plain in da face“?

You loot a new item - its part of the thrill and fun to do the fruit test to find out about eco.
Click to expand...

There is no way to decay test items yourself before buying it from people. So you must trust others they did it right (or they dont want to scam you). With items with huge markup value it is real problem.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
Bear said:
Isn`t a little boring if its all “plain in da face“?

You loot a new item - its part of the thrill and fun to do the fruit test to find out about eco.
Click to expand...

True, but isn't more pain when entropedia is not updated, you can't update it, someone changed stats to manipulate market and you have to alt tab all the time to check what you need or use 2 monitors and play in a window ???

It always can be optional "on/off detailed item stats" in options for those who want thrill - ignorance is bless sometimes indeed :)
 
So MA ? Yes, No, soon, never ? Almost year passed....must not be hard to drop one word here.
 
I think a DPP is a bullshit statistic.

Lets say someone buys a 10 PED TT gun for 10 PED and another buys the same gun for 20 PED the DPP is a factor of 2 between the two people.

So Markup is an extremely important factor to add into DPP. Basing DPP off of TT value alone is about as worthless as depositing into this damn game at the moment with how badly you get PED rapped.
 
K-Max said:
I think a DPP is a bullshit statistic.

Lets say someone buys a 10 PED TT gun for 10 PED and another buys the same gun for 20 PED the DPP is a factor of 2 between the two people.

So Markup is an extremely important factor to add into DPP. Basing DPP off of TT value alone is about as worthless as depositing into this damn game at the moment with how badly you get PED rapped.
Click to expand...

if that gun dont spend ammo ur correct. is not so linear like u try to make it...
 
shoti said:
Frome dev notes #3

[...]
A second and very important part of efficient hunting is to consider the relative cost of using a particular weapon, often referred to as weapon economy, usually measured as damage per PEC. This measures how efficiently, in terms of weapon decay and ammo consumption, a weapon produces each point of damage. An avatar will enjoy much better overall hunting results over time when using weapons with higher damage per pec. Many community websites, such as www.entropiawiki.com, offer detailed statistics on the economy of nearly all the various weapons available in Entropia Universe. The MindArk development team is also considering including more detailed economy statistics on the item information panel in an upcoming release to improve the availability of such information.
[...]

Anyone from MA/PCF staf can answer if those consideraton are acomplished and what was outcome ? Yes, No, soon, never ?
Click to expand...
I would also like to know when this update will be released!!!
 
shoti said:
Frome dev notes #3

[...]
Many community websites, such as www.entropiawiki.com, offer detailed statistics on the economy of nearly all the various weapons available in Entropia Universe. The MindArk development team is also considering including more detailed economy statistics on the item information panel in an upcoming release to improve the availability of such information.
[...]

My question at the time that that dev note came up, and still is why is Mindark advertising entropiawiki.com if they don't actually own the site or url behind it... If some scammer bought the site or it became a malware site (or some virus crept in to ads shown there as has happened here before), they just threw the entire community in to the mud.
Click to expand...
 
Instead of the weapon showing the RAW Damage/sec or Damage/pec it could show what YOU the user get as stats when you last used the item.

The showed value should ONLY be based upon what YOUR setup of amp/attachments, YOUR skills, YOUR average for the last made shots (based on hitrating etc) - That way it would still give headroom for experimenting.
 
Anyone from MA/PCF staf can answer if those consideraton are acomplished and what was outcome ? Yes, No, soon, never ?

It's almost 3 years now.
 
shoti said:
Anyone from MA/PCF staf can answer if those consideraton are acomplished and what was outcome ? Yes, No, soon, never ?

It's almost 3 years now.
Click to expand...

Well if you consider that re-adding taming took what... 5+ years? So we take that divide by the number of shits given, carry the 1 and add some extra time to account for getting distracted on useless other projects and we should see this sometime around 2021. Which incidentally, is right around the time CLD payouts will be less than 1 ped per week (yet for some reason cost 4000 peds each).
 
They won't do it, for a couple of reasons - it's the exact opposite of their design ethos (low info, community collaboration) and more importantly, we will be able to see the exact effect of certain things that MA want us to use ;)
 
Didn't they know that honesty toward comunity works better ? We will count , research, test and recount again everything as usual. Giving us official confirmation in this form is just nice gesture wchich makes our life easier.
 
shoti said:
Didn't they know that honesty toward comunity works better ? We will count , research, test and recount again everything as usual. Giving us official confirmation in this form is just nice gesture wchich makes our life easier.
Click to expand...


Well, but while doing that to find out any of the "new" items is just trash due to bad eco, this items are already used, so MA made some money out of something nobody really wants to buy :D
 
In the old days the random return was better, why?
Simple - people knew less about eco and more small amounts from many players was lost and generated more loot

Mindark have never been good at communicating changes, updates, promises, why?
Simple - they keep earning money anyway because ppl have blind faith and high hopes. The las vegas effect...

Sad yes, thats why i quitted because i saw this, it just took me ten years to get there though.
And no, dont cast this reply off as a whining post, i had great fun during this adventure, met alot of good friends. And found ways of making peds, but it was mostly in the ways of making orther people lose, and i didnt like that it had to be like that.

Flame away, but hope this opened some eyes :)
 
K-Max said:
I think a DPP is a bullshit statistic.

Lets say someone buys a 10 PED TT gun for 10 PED and another buys the same gun for 20 PED the DPP is a factor of 2 between the two people.

So Markup is an extremely important factor to add into DPP. Basing DPP off of TT value alone is about as worthless as depositing into this damn game at the moment with how badly you get PED rapped.
Click to expand...

Now you're trying to combine Capital Investment of the gun with DPP. It's a valid point, but there are ways to hedge this.

1) Discovering your weapons (especially limited guns)
2) Earning from Daily Token Trader
3) Paying less than MU for UL guns (and ultimately selling for more than you paid if at all possible)
4) Buying guns for TT (maybe from trade terminal or players)
 
mastermesh said:
shoti said:
Frome dev notes #3

[...]
Many community websites, such as www.entropiawiki.com, offer detailed statistics on the economy of nearly all the various weapons available in Entropia Universe. The MindArk development team is also considering including more detailed economy statistics on the item information panel in an upcoming release to improve the availability of such information.
[...]

My question at the time that that dev note came up, and still is why is Mindark advertising entropiawiki.com if they don't actually own the site or url behind it... If some scammer bought the site or it became a malware site (or some virus crept in to ads shown there as has happened here before), they just threw the entire community in to the mud.
Click to expand...

Entropedia reveals how the calculations are made:

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Page.aspx?page=Calculate+the+decay+of+an+item

There are also excel sheets you can use to generate these stats yourself.
Click to expand...
 
chronos said:
In the old days the random return was better, why?
Simple - people knew less about eco and more small amounts from many players was lost and generated more loot

Mindark have never been good at communicating changes, updates, promises, why?
Simple - they keep earning money anyway because ppl have blind faith and high hopes. The las vegas effect...

Sad yes, thats why i quitted because i saw this, it just took me ten years to get there though.
And no, dont cast this reply off as a whining post, i had great fun during this adventure, met alot of good friends. And found ways of making peds, but it was mostly in the ways of making orther people lose, and i didnt like that it had to be like that.

Flame away, but hope this opened some eyes :)
Click to expand...

You didn't like that you had to make money off other people.

As opposed to what... magicking it from thin air?
 
Only a year?? its been over two years now that we have waiting for the cargo missions so you have some way to go yet :)
 
chronos said:
In the old days the random return was better, why?
Simple - people knew less about eco and more small amounts from many players was lost and generated more loot

Mindark have never been good at communicating changes, updates, promises, why?
Simple - they keep earning money anyway because ppl have blind faith and high hopes. The las vegas effect...

Sad yes, thats why i quitted because i saw this, it just took me ten years to get there though.
And no, dont cast this reply off as a whining post, i had great fun during this adventure, met alot of good friends. And found ways of making peds, but it was mostly in the ways of making orther people lose, and i didnt like that it had to be like that.

Flame away, but hope this opened some eyes :)
Click to expand...

So if quiet why you still using forum? For any player to profit then at least one player has to lose. Sweaters are fine example they extract for free and then sell for a profit, but someone had to deposit down the line to pay for sweat. This is what people don't like now with more items with less mu its harder to profit or make up for the 10% loss if agree with 90% return theory. Alot of players blame explosives do the decline in mu, but there is other factors too.
 
shoti said:
Frome dev notes #3

[...]
An avatar will enjoy much better overall hunting results over time when using weapons with higher damage per pec. Many community websites,
Click to expand...

Does he really?

My experience is, that the eco-factor is not a matter of more loss, rather the same way the slider works in crafting:
- higher eco means slider do the left (better general results, but less/lower hofs)
- lower eco means slider to the right (worse general results, but bigger hofs)

Looks to me like it is a matter, of how much you want to gamble...


just my2pec
 
chronos said:
In the old days the random return was better, why?
Simple - people knew less about eco and more small amounts from many players was lost and generated more loot

Mindark have never been good at communicating changes, updates, promises, why?
Simple - they keep earning money anyway because ppl have blind faith and high hopes. The las vegas effect...

Sad yes, thats why i quitted because i saw this, it just took me ten years to get there though.
And no, dont cast this reply off as a whining post, i had great fun during this adventure, met alot of good friends. And found ways of making peds, but it was mostly in the ways of making orther people lose, and i didnt like that it had to be like that.

Flame away, but hope this opened some eyes :)
Click to expand...

Before missed shots counted (like when you hit nothing) and shooting dead corpses counted, every shot counted, that was the big change more than eco loot wise.
 
I do agree however that more stats could be present in-game, instead of having to rely on external websites.
 
well they did put loot source on item info screens of some items... good start, but it's nowhere near universal on the item info screens yet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top