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Abuse of MM Categories

Xen said:
I don't understand the concern. No one is going to chip out from level 120 to 99, then back up just for mayhem. If they just chip out to 99 they are not much different than other high 90's hunters.
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It isn't just about Cat4/5, as you can see throughout the discussion we've also brought up the lower Cats. A Cat4 player (70) could chip to 69.9 VERY CHEAPLY to get put into Cat3. Within an hour he's back at 70+. Same can be said for any Cat though. A Lvl 100 player could take out a tiny amount to go to 99.9, it wont be that expensive.

The point is that there is no rigid enforcement of the rules, other than for team. People CAN (and supposedly DO) abuse this system.

You didn't really answer my last question though: if we aren't going to enforce the level requirements, why have different categories?

CozMoDan said:
There is also another thing to consider, the prizes. The cat5 does have the best prizes. That may keep some of the better players in the correct category. Just thought.
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True, but Cats 3 and 4 aren't bad at all.
 
The level requirements are enforced, if you are under level 100 when they give the keys, you are cat 4. If they want to make a rule about it being required to stay in your category that would be fine with me.

But, like I said, I don't think anyone is chipping back in to a much higher level. I don't think someone will be chipping down to 69 then back up to 80 or something. The difference between 69/70 or 99/100 is practically nothing.
 
I think you guys are getting worked up about the lower level cats too much.

Only masochists would run non-SIB in cat 3/2/1. Those cats are ruled by certain unL SIB weapons, such as the X5. The cost of chipping down and then running non-SIB for 40 hours full tilt would destroy any prize value.

On the other end, do you really think a cat 4 level 75 player really has much more of a chance against a natural level 99 using tier 8+ MM/FOE vs a chipped down level 99 using teir 8+ MM/FOE?


If you don't own one of the top DPS unL guns for your cat then you really don't have anything to get worked up about.
 
Maybe implementing Highest level achieved would be an option.
 
narfi said:
How many fighters weigh as little at the fight as they did at weigh in?
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Possible OT, but the reason they don't enforce day-of-fight weights is because that when the body is dehydrated you are more susceptible to head injuries. In order to avoid this, they allow a day of rehydration.
 
Chipping before the event aint the big issue ,it`s being able doing it during, and it`s not just about that someone could chip down before entering and later chipping up.

You have players who are natural skilled to the end in there category who could eat some esi to gain higher dps in a lower cat.

For example
Player lvl 23 sign cat1 than chip into lvl30
player lvl49 sign cat2 than chip into lvl55

And they can all compete in the sign category,this might not happening at all ,but that there even is speculation that it`s possible due to no clarification in rules about it makes is bad.
 
I see this is bothering you Rave but when it comes to the winners of cat4 and cat5 it really is all about the weapon you own, not the skill so its kind of irrelevant.

someone naturally lvl99 with a t10MM would smash the crap outta someone who chipped down to enter and then back up to whatever without the right gun. Makes more sense if you own one of those guns and are lvl102 you loan it to a mate instead of wasting peds on esi and skill loss.
 
Scurvy Sityl said:
Possible OT, but the reason they don't enforce day-of-fight weights is because that when the body is dehydrated you are more susceptible to head injuries. In order to avoid this, they allow a day of rehydration.
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This is very on topic I beleive.

The current rules for MM are much the same as weigh in day and fight day.
A fighter can weigh in significantly lighter than his optimal hydrated and peak mental condition.

I have no problem whatsoever with someone naturally skilling over the weight class they received their keys for and still competing. (chipping should be prevented though)

Just like a fighter weighing in at 159lbs might actually be 170lbs when fighting the next day, someone taking the mission at L69 may well be able to skill up to 71-72ish naturally and still do the instances.

The fighter that weighed in at 159lbs will NOT be 220lbs on fight day though, and in the same way someone taking the mission at L69, should not be able to do instances at L85.

Edit:
I think the best solution in the future is to prevent anyone who has accepted the mission from being able to chip or complete missions untill after the 1st.(or whenever the event is over)
 
Rave said:
It isn't just about Cat4/5, as you can see throughout the discussion we've also brought up the lower Cats. A Cat4 player (70) could chip to 69.9 VERY CHEAPLY to get put into Cat3. Within an hour he's back at 70+. Same can be said for any Cat though. A Lvl 100 player could take out a tiny amount to go to 99.9, it wont be that expensive.

The point is that there is no rigid enforcement of the rules, other than for team. People CAN (and supposedly DO) abuse this system.

You didn't really answer my last question though: if we aren't going to enforce the level requirements, why have different categories?



True, but Cats 3 and 4 aren't bad at all.
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I would sure take any of them also :).
 
I'm continually changing my specific concerns as we talk about this, which is the point of such discussions :D

Chipping down isn't as big of a deal as chipping back up, I've realized. Of course, if you chip down, you'll lose some power from non-SIBs otherwise you're competing at a fairer level with the necessary SIBs.

And true, the difference in top Cat4 competitors and Cat5 competitors isn't nearly as much as the lower Cats. Obviously, anyone with any significant levels in Cat5 would never chip down.

I would just say, for the sake of fair competition, your Solo Cat should change if you go above the max requirement. Or lock chipping if you have accepted the mission. The reason is, someone could chip down and plow through lower level mobs and chip up in the last hour to move your points into the next Cat.

While I'm no programmer or anything, nor can we really see the effects of such manipulation by players, finding a fair way to lock competitors into proper categories would just be in the spirit of full and fair competition.

I enjoy just shooting for the sake of participation. But I do enjoy the discussion.
 

I think the best solution in the future is to prevent anyone who has accepted the mission from being able to chip or complete missions untill after the 1st.(or whenever the event is over)

i would agree narfi, but as the system is now it couldnt work, if u accepted at level 23 or 49 lets say, after a few instances you would be locked out

i would agree to no chipping up or down but maybe locking skills until the event is over too, then when you complete the mission all the accumulated skills would load in, and how about locking weapons to the avi who started the mission too, anyone up for that??? :eyecrazy:
 
Svena said:
Only masochists would run non-SIB in cat 3/2/1.
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O RLY?!

http://www.entropialife.com/Profile.aspx?P=86666

I doubt very much this ava is using SIB. Even if they are, it highlights the IMO much more important issue of the blatant and obvious use of alts.

Cat 1 winner 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012. 9th in 2013.The fact that no one seems to have commented on this before means all the ubers know who this is but, omerta and all that.


This is all the more disgusting because it fucks over the newest and most vulnerable members of our community. How we can complain that noobs don't stay in the game when shit like this goes on?
 
Artrat said:
O RLY?!

http://www.entropialife.com/Profile.aspx?P=86666

I doubt very much this ava is using SIB. Even if they are, it highlights the IMO much more important issue of the blatant and obvious use of alts.

Cat 1 winner 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012. 9th in 2013.The fact that no one seems to have commented on this before means all the ubers know who this is but, omerta and all that.


This is all the more disgusting because it fucks over the newest and most vulnerable members of our community. How we can complain that noobs don't stay in the game when shit like this goes on?
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Exactly this. Clearly alt use by an uber. That's the only thing that makes sense. Its not fair to the new players we are trying to keep in the game.
 
Rave said:
It isn't just about Cat4/5, as you can see throughout the discussion we've also brought up the lower Cats. A Cat4 player (70) could chip to 69.9 VERY CHEAPLY to get put into Cat3. Within an hour he's back at 70+. Same can be said for any Cat though. A Lvl 100 player could take out a tiny amount to go to 99.9, it wont be that expensive.
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Sorry but I can't get exited about this. It makes no-fucking-matter if you are lvl 99 or 102 or lvl 69 or 71. If you put it this way it's much more unfair that a lvl 70 player has to comepe against a lvl 99 player but hey, we can't have a category for each level either ^^
 
Artrat said:
O RLY?!

http://www.entropialife.com/Profile.aspx?P=86666

I doubt very much this ava is using SIB. Even if they are, it highlights the IMO much more important issue of the blatant and obvious use of alts.

Cat 1 winner 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012. 9th in 2013.The fact that no one seems to have commented on this before means all the ubers know who this is but, omerta and all that.


This is all the more disgusting because it fucks over the newest and most vulnerable members of our community. How we can complain that noobs don't stay in the game when shit like this goes on?
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Yep that is fucking BS.

SO sick of the instances not working for 4 hours when my team is ready, and yet people like Star go in and out whenever they want.

Sick of the favoritism, sick of the lack of policing the alts, and sick of MA not caring, sick of paying for the ubers to trade guns and winning all the cats. Sick of all the good gear being given to pure DPS in all the mayhem events...

Sick of the web store not working. Sick of the shitty hitboxes. Sick of seeing only half the mobs half the time...sick of all the assholes that play this game and cheat and trap and exploit.

Sick of MA not doing a goddamn thing about those cheaters.

It all makes me sick of playing.

Just fucking sick...
 
Sunsout Gunsout said:
Yep that is fucking BS.

SO sick of the instances not working for 4 hours when my team is ready, and yet people like Star go in and out whenever they want.

Sick of the favoritism, sick of the lack of policing the alts, and sick of MA not caring, sick of paying for the ubers to trade guns and winning all the cats. Sick of all the good gear being given to pure DPS in all the mayhem events...

Sick of the web store not working. Sick of the shitty hitboxes. Sick of seeing only half the mobs half the time...sick of all the assholes that play this game and cheat and trap and exploit.

Sick of MA not doing a goddamn thing about those cheaters.

It all makes me sick of playing.

Just fucking sick...
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My thoughts as well but its not just MM..Love the game but hate the joke that its turning into ...time to lvl the Lock.
 
Svena said:
Only masochists would run non-SIB in cat 3/2/1
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It wasn't same division a couple of years ago when it happened, but a Close relative account won a land area in the same category as I was in back then, if I remember right "borrowing" a mod merc (oldschool weapon).

One thing to consider, is that the McCormick termiator ("the event Winner") is maxed at level 40 (according to entredia), though, practically, I guess no normal level 40 player would have access to it.
 
Sunsout Gunsout said:
Yep that is fucking BS.

SO sick of the instances not working for 4 hours when my team is ready, and yet people like Star go in and out whenever they want.

Sick of the favoritism, sick of the lack of policing the alts, and sick of MA not caring, sick of paying for the ubers to trade guns and winning all the cats. Sick of all the good gear being given to pure DPS in all the mayhem events...

Sick of the web store not working. Sick of the shitty hitboxes. Sick of seeing only half the mobs half the time...sick of all the assholes that play this game and cheat and trap and exploit.

Sick of MA not doing a goddamn thing about those cheaters.

It all makes me sick of playing.

Just fucking sick...
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So Taco, why don't you tell us how you really feel :wtg::yup::scratch2:
 
minim said:
Sorry but I can't get exited about this. It makes no-fucking-matter if you are lvl 99 or 102 or lvl 69 or 71. If you put it this way it's much more unfair that a lvl 70 player has to comepe against a lvl 99 player but hey, we can't have a category for each level either ^^
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Well, I agree that a lvl70 and a lvl99 competing is unfair, but we've accepted these categories and we all have to start somewhere. However, once players work to get in the top end of their category (for the upcoming year, let's say) they shouldn't have to worry about alts and chippers taking advantage.
 
two words: MERRY MAYHEM

Its always been about how many you can kill and about strategy, about having the best gear or access to the best gear, make the relationships in game with people who can help support your runs, complaining here doesn't help your effort. Solo is tough, Placing in the top 2 or 3 spots in any category takes some dedication. I wont place very high in solo, I have decent gear but I will play regardless for the fun. MA has introduced many other mayhem type instances (holloween and robot) done with points and giving a different aspect to competitions. There is a thread every year on this and I think that people sometimes entirely miss the point. I am doing 3 runs, My solo, a cat 4 and a cat 5 run. that is 120 hours of hell this year, I think Im losing my mind.. but ill still do it..

Good luck

Salty
 
Rave said:
Well, I agree that a lvl70 and a lvl99 competing is unfair, but we've accepted these categories and we all have to start somewhere. However, once players work to get in the top end of their category (for the upcoming year, let's say) they shouldn't have to worry about alts and chippers taking advantage.
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Why not? Chipping is a part of this game and so is skills and planning your moves towards mayhem. There is hardly an advantage over a few lvls anyways so this is to me just whining to whine...
 
Salty Grimyth said:
two words: MERRY MAYHEM

Its always been about how many you can kill and about strategy, about having the best gear or access to the best gear, make the relationships in game with people who can help support your runs, complaining here doesn't help your effort. Solo is tough, Placing in the top 2 or 3 spots in any category takes some dedication. I wont place very high in solo, I have decent gear but I will play regardless for the fun. MA has introduced many other mayhem type instances (holloween and robot) done with points and giving a different aspect to competitions. There is a thread every year on this and I think that people sometimes entirely miss the point. I am doing 3 runs, My solo, a cat 4 and a cat 5 run. that is 120 hours of hell this year, I think Im losing my mind.. but ill still do it..

Good luck

Salty
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Ah Salty you are a gluten for punishment :) I think the key is the equipment you have, this makes a big difference. I am about middle of level 4 and no way with the equipment I have can I do the spiders or the bot but I can give the kerbbies hell:).
 
minim said:
Why not? Chipping is a part of this game and so is skills and planning your moves towards mayhem. There is hardly an advantage over a few lvls anyways so this is to me just whining to whine...
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Those few levels can the difference in maxing an SIB, which affects your DPS. And jumping to an entirely new level DPS, that is otherwise unusable by most people in a certain cat, is an advantage.

Not sure where you got the idea that this post is a whining thread. I know I can't compete at a high level for my cat, so I am not affected by this in any way currently. Observations and discussions are completely separate from whining.

There are people who agree and people who don't. That's fine.

And Salty is a masochist lol, 120 hours... wooweee! :laugh:
 
Well i dont know if this might be the case of what RAVE was talking about but i find kinda HARD to beat something like this in CAT2.

Just ended one more key when i see this guy in TT and kinda scan it just to check gear when i see a FOE on is hands with Rage 50 on it, this guy i dont know him and dont know it this might be an ALT or not, a gun like this we all know cost many K PEDS so i just dont know what to say about this...



Well GL to all in CAT2 but think MA better give alredy the 1º place to this guy:(:(:(:(
 
Lumar said:
Well i dont know if this might be the case of what RAVE was talking about but i find kinda HARD to beat something like this in CAT2.

Just ended one more key when i see this guy in TT and kinda scan it just to check gear when i see a FOE on is hands with Rage 50 on it, this guy i dont know him and dont know it this might be an ALT or not, a gun like this we all know cost many K PEDS so i just dont know what to say about this...



Well GL to all in CAT2 but think MA better give alredy the 1º place to this guy:(:(:(:(
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Its likely a friend lent him the gun, or he just deposited a bunch at a low level. Nothing wrong with that. If his skills are really Cat2 status, he's losing a lot of eco. If it were an ALT though, that's different.
 
He has of course two major drawbacks:

Firstly he's not maxed on the gun, so any stats must be reduced by quite a bit to allow for the good old MISS and the lower minimum damage per shot. Losing up to 30 damage per shot (assuming his skills are somewhere around yours) will hurt.

Secondly, dat range. Unless this guy has absolutely perfect technique, he will be lacking targets at some points during his runs...


Good luck to him though. Looks like a nice setup.
 
Maybe your right Rave but after that one i saw 2 more guys playing in CAT2 and its a LOL the gear they have not going to say anything more but one of them from the stats is lower then me in SKills new player and was just using 6 Parts MM set+5B and for the gun it´s Just a MOD MERC TIER 5 with Overcharged A204:eyecrazy::eyecrazy: even at those skills pumping at an eco of 2,77 something around 115DPS...

Well guess i just better forget TOP 10 coz i see alot of LOANs in this game lol

STRYKER LOAN me the TERMINATOR :lolup:

Gl to all
 
Lumar said:
Well i dont know if this might be the case of what RAVE was talking about but i find kinda HARD to beat something like this in CAT2.

Just ended one more key when i see this guy in TT and kinda scan it just to check gear when i see a FOE on is hands with Rage 50 on it, this guy i dont know him and dont know it this might be an ALT or not, a gun like this we all know cost many K PEDS so i just dont know what to say about this...



Well GL to all in CAT2 but think MA better give alredy the 1º place to this guy:(:(:(:(
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I happen to know him. He is not an alt and he's been playing for years. Please dont accuse any one in Global Alliance of being an alt again.

Also I'm the owner of that weapon. He is renting it from me.
 
sidxx said:
I happen to know him. He is not an alt and he's been playing for years. Please dont accuse any one in Global Alliance of being an alt again.

Also I'm the owner of that weapon. He is renting it from me.
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There was no accusation. He merely said it could or could not be an alt. He didn't know.

The point is, some people DO create alts to use with their gear.
 
sidxx said:
I happen to know him. He is not an alt and he's been playing for years. Please dont accuse any one in Global Alliance of being an alt again.

Also I'm the owner of that weapon. He is renting it from me.
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Wich part of "i dont know him and dont know if this might be an ALT or not" you didnt get it???

So dont come here acting like a bully because my english can be bad sometimes but i think you got the point.

So gl to all and take care.
 
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