Explosive Crafting

To start I have done very little Crafting. But It amazing me MA would put a recipe in That doesn't require any.
Mining Or Hunting Ing. They could have picked any two or even one ing. from Hunting for example. And started a demand for something to get people out farming that ing. Just surprised is all.
Now we get to watch Global HoF's all day with Just TT Item.

LordFirehand said:

To start I have done very little Crafting. But It amazing me MA would put a recipe in That doesn't require any.
Mining Or Hunting Ing. They could have picked any two or even one ing. from Hunting for example. And started a demand for something to get people out farming that ing. Just surprised is all.
Now we get to watch Global HoF's all day with Just TT Item.

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But then anyone wanting to use a rocket would be paying 110% for ammo which is not very fair and not what MA wants considering changes made to MF etc to make that more economical.

Dont get me wrong I'd love yet another hunting loot with MU but it wouldnt be fair for rocket users.

it gives alot of people that would never craft a chance too?


and perhaps show how crafting is?

i think a great thing

Kinda metal residue markup killer (and energy res folows) .

Imho better solution:
- remove all amo types: Laser, BLP, Explo, SME
- make uni amo avaible at TT
- make all weapons and chips use uni amo (inlcuding rockets) except mayby few strike and area healing chips that use LME.
- make shrapnel drop in about 30% amounts and remove any other amo drops - regular loot should be restricted to just few item kinds as it is now - pure melee users have option: sell shrapnel to others at 100.50%-100.99% or TT it.

But the bps are already ingame and can't be removed i guess - so nothing like that will happen.

Falagor

Falagor said:

pure melee users have option: sell shrapnel to others at 100.50%-100.99% or TT it.

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or make it possible to use uni amo as a repair resource.

Falagor said:

Kinda metal residue markup killer (and energy res folows) .

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Does it really need to be, at equilibrium? It's not like crafting near-TT-food for 60% of your loot and 112% residue for 30% of it comes close to bridging 10% TT loss, let alone the 15%-20% TT loss that crafters actually face, assuming they can't manage enough millions of clicks per run to consistently achieve the same non-zero number of i.e. 10000x multiplier clicks.

Hopefully once the Explosive BPs are no longer "new," residue can be relevant again.

TheOneOmega said:

Does it really need to be, at equilibrium? It's not like crafting near-TT-food for 60% of your loot and 112% residue for 30% of it comes close to bridging 10% TT loss, let alone the 15%-20% TT loss that crafters actually face, assuming they can't manage enough millions of clicks per run to consistently achieve the same non-zero number of i.e. 10000x multiplier clicks.

Hopefully once the Explosive BPs are no longer "new," residue can be relevant again.

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From my experience any non-SIB components crafting gives 90% TT returns (when maxed and not neceserily at 100 QR) and any SIB components bp that you are maxed and with QR 100 gives 95% TT returns with those ratios:
- quantity vs condition only results with more products vs residue gain.
Those values stabilse around 30-50k clicks done.
And yes i have some stats for this conclusion but mayby not enough compared to some pro crafters here.

So basicly if you can have mats at 100% and product at 100-101% and residue at (??) 103-105% there is absolutly no point in craftig anything that has any mats that cost even fraction of markup and have TT food product (well except mayby skilling something else than mech components) -> so ANY components that are TT food, any weapons that are TT food (old jester), any attachments that are TT food, armors, and many other items - there is NO POINT at all in crafting them - becasue you will always loose compared to crafting explosive bp (any size).

If only I explosive bp would exist - it would not crash met res market yet i am sure it would generate more than enough explosives to drop the markup to 100-101%. It is the III and espetially IV size that one player can cycle like 100k peds daily (12hours, 400clicks/hour, 20ped/click = 96k cycled) with it and generate ~55k peds of met res with it during one day...

On the other hand: now only usefull items will be crafted and cheaper - which is kinda good. Mining amps markup will drop for sure. All crafted usefull (L) faps and weapons will drop in markup too.

And if you hope that met/en residue will come back to +108% when the "new" factor will be out of the game i have sad news for you. Crafters in their profit inlcude skills they gain and can sell later. This is how the explo bp is still break even and mayby even small fraction of profit for thsoe who craft them atm if they also sell skills they gain (alternative to skilling reparning at MS in a little different way).

@edit:
and reaching equilibum is nothing that you can plan to achieve by doing somehting. It realy reaches by itself in free market economy. There are ways of shifting it a litle with i.e. market manipualtions or controlling caped materials but on something like explo bp i doubt it can be done.

Falagor

I suspect MA will tweak the Metal Residue output from these BPs. Ammo by rights should be TT value. These BPs allow rocket users the opportunity to by rocket projectiles at near TT, if not 101%. I would hope they keep the number of BPs capped so they retain their value...but knowing MA they wont.

now if that tt grenade launcher that was on rocktropia a while back would show up in all tts universally (or preferably one with better eco)...

Explosive crafting is GOOD for the economy and game for a number of different reasons. First, it balances out the fact that both miners and hunters can buy gear from the tt but crafters could not previously. Secondly it allows crafters to cycle pecs. Since cld and aud roi is low, that gives MA and PPs more cash in the loot cycle than they were getting from crafters who don't deposit regularly... Also, and most importantly in my book, along with the universal auction transport thing, it helps planet partners get crafters that they desperately need.... crafters can now go craft up a storm to loot different planet's bps for the roi their cld/aud (and possibly eventually compet deeds) are making them... (at least that's what I'm doing at the moment I was on my way back to caly from ark to pick up some stuff I left in storage there eons ago but since I already have most component bps on caly, and the explosives bp is now in my inventory, I decided to take a little detour and try out Cyrene... where I now am blowing every damn pec on crafting explosives so I can fill up the cyrene book. I suspect others are making similar plans with other planets. )

To put it another way... some crafters are picky in what they usually craft, and so sometimes the ingredients for the bps are not always available on auction. On the days that that happens, this gives the crafters a way to cycle some peds that they normally otherwise would not have cycled... it's kinda like hunting lower level mobs than you are able to hunt when your pedcard is running low. Give crafters a chance to play the game daily too.

As far as the residue goes, this could lower cost on L products as residue price lowers eventually.

Few Scars said:

I suspect MA will tweak the Metal Residue output from these BPs. Ammo by rights should be TT value. These BPs allow rocket users the opportunity to by rocket projectiles at near TT, if not 101%. I would hope they keep the number of BPs capped so they retain their value...but knowing MA they wont.

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I honestly read several times this, and still can't understand - what "should be by rights" and "what should be not".

mastermesh said:

now if that tt grenade launcher that was on rocktropia a while back would show up in all tts universally (or preferably one with better eco)...

Explosive crafting is GOOD for the economy and game for a number of different reasons. First, it balances out the fact that both miners and hunters can buy gear from the tt but crafters could not previously. Secondly it allows crafters to cycle pecs. Since cld and aud roi is low, that gives MA and PPs more cash in the loot cycle than they were getting from crafters who don't deposit regularly... Also, and most importantly in my book, along with the universal auction transport thing, it helps planet partners get crafters that they desperately need.... crafters can now go craft up a storm to loot different planet's bps for the roi their cld/aud (and possibly eventually compet deeds) are making them... (at least that's what I'm doing at the moment I was on my way back to caly from ark to pick up some stuff I left in storage there eons ago but since I already have most component bps on caly, and the explosives bp is now in my inventory, I decided to take a little detour and try out Cyrene... where I now am blowing every damn pec on crafting explosives so I can fill up the cyrene book. I suspect others are making similar plans with other planets. )

To put it another way... some crafters are picky in what they usually craft, and so sometimes the ingredients for the bps are not always available on auction. On the days that that happens, this gives the crafters a way to cycle some peds that they normally otherwise would not have cycled... it's kinda like hunting lower level mobs than you are able to hunt when your pedcard is running low. Give crafters a chance to play the game daily too.

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All this would work if there would be only level I explo bp - you could still craft low as you said . Sadly it is the III and IV making the problem. II is speculative imho and probably if it would be ingame it would not hurt that much.

Falagor

this is the new way to play PE.

no need effort at all.

> log in > buy stuff from the TT > craft & go AFK > come back > sell to the auctionner (oh, you can also automatize that!) > log out

where is the fun to play against autoclicker!?

Sharpnel + Explosive BP

Piss off in hunt/mining just saying

i just can't understand the way MA taking, they just more and more kill every economy link between the professions...perhapsw even whole economy

the heaviest cyclers could really push mu (or make it worth collecting ores etc), but no, they can buy unl weap, unl finders, unl amp, and now bp with unl supply and never have to get in touch with economy again (on buyer side)...

really nice MA...
you see ore prices fall? know why? heaviest gamblers can now craft with tt stuff inszead of buying ores for their amp bps etc..

stupid

expl iv worst thing done to eu after unl amps

Magnus Mag said:

i just can't understand the way MA taking, they just more and more kill every economy link between the professions...perhapsw even whole economy

the heaviest cyclers could really push mu (or make it worth collecting ores etc), but no, they can buy unl weap, unl finders, unl amp, and now bp with unl supply and never have to get in touch with economy again (on buyer side)...

really nice MA...
you see ore prices fall? know why? heaviest gamblers can now craft with tt stuff inszead of buying ores for their amp bps etc..

stupid

expl iv worst thing done to eu after unl amps

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On the other hand, there is independent benefit from having unlimited items in the game. Unlimited items provide a sense of ownership which (L) items do not. What is there to strive for in a game where everything you buy just breaks down to nothing? Only skills. This is the flaw of AfterWorld, which makes Entropia more enjoyable, in my opinion.

TheOneOmega said:

On the other hand, there is independent benefit from having unlimited items in the game. Unlimited items provide a sense of ownership which (L) items do not. What is there to strive for in a game where everything you buy just breaks down to nothing? Only skills. This is the flaw of AfterWorld, which makes Entropia more enjoyable, in my opinion.

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yeah i agree to some point..
but the problem is, even in real life things break at some point nthing lasts forever, you can buy the best car, most expensive watch biggest gun to hunt..at some point it just breaks...
here it lasts forever...you don't need replacement parts, you don't need to bring it to experts to look over it and do minor things..
even for the most expensive cars there is some economy around it to keep them rolling..

in eu its just there forever...this works in wow or sth but not something which should have economy like eu.


you bring up AW, i like the basic concept way better than EUs concept, whole economy linked together you actually need crafters (you need crafters in EU? lol)..
they just fucked up made it to complicated and hard + it was too long unmoving in development

Im guessing we might be seeing stage 2 of the hit now.
Oil prices have dropped alot lately. Muscle and Eye was at around 110% last week. Mostly gamblers im guessing now thoose gamblers have moved on to buying from TT and voila 2 more markets down the drain again. This will be alot more painfull now with shrapnel and making hunting harder to profit from.