MM fair?

MM is over and the resulats are out. I did not participate so worry not, this is not a complaint thread!!

Nonthesless I do have some thoughts about the fairness of it all. I've heard that there have been a lot of alternative avatars winning prizes(especially in the lower categories). Which is kind of logical if you think about it.
If you buy expensive gear to win MM, why not have multiple avatars and just switch the gear between them.

My question is this; Does MA make a REAL check for this? It should be pretty easy to just check out the prize winners at least, if they see heavy gear floating between them and a IP address from the same location it should be grounds for ban for disqualification.

Your thoughts?

Why should sharing the same public IP lead to a ban or disqualification. I can't follow your logic, as it is clearly not in the rules nor part of the EULA to have the same IP.

However there should not be alts, but in fact there is not much what can be done about it

-people can share same IPs but are legit different players ( e.g. couples in the same household )
-people even can share same computers to access the game with different accounts ( e.g. couples in the same household )

As long as the registered avatar belongs to one physical person to which it is registered everything is fine.

that being said i think it is not anymore mandatory to enter rl information, only if someone wants to withdraw or uses the gold card.

My logic is, at the very least, extremly simple.

Jennson said:

Why should sharing the same public IP lead to a ban or disqualification. I can't follow your logic, as it is clearly not in the rules nor part of the EULA to have the same IP.

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Now what I'm saying is that if you have the same IP and after 40 hours switches gear and the other account becomes inactive when the new one starts playing hardcore MA should take a closer look at the account and see if they can find proof that this account is a alt account.

Maybe this is not the way to go to ensure it's a fair competition, but I'm just trying to get an answer about this, what I consider to be a problem, from the developers.

Is anyone doing a check on the winners?

raxxor said:

My logic is, at the very least, extremly simple.



Now what I'm saying is that if you have the same IP and after 40 hours switches gear and the other account becomes inactive when the new one starts playing hardcore MA should take a closer look at the account and see if they can find proof that this account is a alt account.

Maybe this is not the way to go to ensure it's a fair competition, but I'm just trying to get an answer about this, what I consider to be a problem, from the developers.

Is anyone doing a check on the winners?

Click to expand...

While i agree with you intend, this alone still is no proof for cheating. People can switch gear and yes it is highly suspicious, but for the minority which are legit accounts and who share gear with each other, because some high end gear is to expensive to get it for each of them 2 i say it would be unfair to exclude them from the competition

If transactions, IP, bank account number, playing time.. etc looks suspicious it would be too unfair to all participants not to at least make a full check to see if there's some proof of them cheating the prize system. Worst case scenario if it really looks that bad like all this line up to be a alternative account, MA could contact the two avatars and make them provide proof that they actually are different persons and that their address.. personal information.. etc checks out. We are not talking small money when it comes to for example top 5 prizes in each cats.

Jennson said:

While i agree with you intend, this alone still is no proof for cheating. People can switch gear and yes it is highly suspicious, but for the minority which are legit accounts and who share gear with each other, because some high end gear is to expensive to get it for each of them 2 i say it would be unfair to exclude them from the competition

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raxxor said:

Does MA make a REAL check for this? It should be pretty easy to just check out the prize winners at least, if they see heavy gear floating between them and a IP address from the same location it should be grounds for ban for disqualification.

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There's close to no way to catch an alt since anyone serious about that could easily not just say those are brothers/uncles/whoever but also provide real id scans of those. And you can't forbid people to play from same IP as not only households but often whole communities use single external IP.

raxxor said:

their address.. personal information.. etc checks out. We are not talking small money when it comes to for example top 5 prizes in each cats.

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Yes, yes, especially since there are big money involved. If one happen to have no relatives or they really all play EU themselves, he always can bring a bottle of brandy to the neighbor drunk

I would not want my wife or I to be banned.
People are and have been complaining alot about this, but the answer is simple and doesn't HURT or PUNISH anyone.

IF avatarX accepts a competition mission, THEN their UL gear is locked on their avatar until after the competition is over.

Top gear should be allowed to win (if they put in the work along with it) without being punished for their investments or the fact that members of their family play as well. But that doesn't mean that the same gear has to be allowed to win multiple times per event.

raxxor said:

If transactions, IP, bank account number, playing time.. etc looks suspicious it would be too unfair to all participants not to at least make a full check to see if there's some proof of them cheating the prize system. Worst case scenario if it really looks that bad like all this line up to be a alternative account, MA could contact the two avatars and make them provide proof that they actually are different persons and that their address.. personal information.. etc checks out. We are not talking small money when it comes to for example top 5 prizes in each cats.

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And the most likely outcome will be that suspicious accounts do indeed belong to real physical persons. Uber's brother, sister, grandma, family dog you name it. So a lot of wasted time for nothing. Time each one has to pay. And for mindark it is not that much money, uni ammo and the TT of the items.

narfi said:

....
IF avatarX accepts a competition mission, THEN their UL gear is locked on their avatar until after the competition is over.

Top gear should be allowed to win (if they put in the work along with it) without being punished for their investments or the fact that members of their family play as well. But that doesn't mean that the same gear has to be allowed to win multiple times per event.

Click to expand...

That would be a better solution for the problem imho.

I agree with locking gear to one avatar for a given competition. Seems the simplest and most efficient method of preventing alt accounts and allowing for true competition. The event would actually be exciting.

The easiest way would probably be to make mayhem 50/50 dps/luck, then it does matter how many shared the same gear, they would still not be able to claim all top prizes unless all of them is extremly lucky also.

I did not think about this, smart

MA make it so please

narfi said:

IF avatarX accepts a competition mission, THEN their UL gear is locked on their avatar until after the competition is over.

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Why not ease everything and just do not allow unlimited weapons in competitions? Would help market and such.

zeusrocktropian said:

Why not ease everything and just do not allow unlimited weapons in competitions? Would help market and such.

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It would have a big impact on value of unlimited weapons and people who invested a lot of money in their weapons would lose out.

I don't think anyone has a problem with someone having an advantage for paying for an uber gun. I think they have a problem with 10 or 12 people having an advantage because of the one gun.

Scurvy Sityl said:

I agree with locking gear to one avatar for a given competition. Seems the simplest and most efficient method of preventing alt accounts and allowing for true competition. The event would actually be exciting.

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I do not agreed. This is a RCE and starting to block item trades is introducing locks we do not want to see. What about friends that invested in gear togheter and share their items? A lot of the high end gear is expensive and sharing between friends is the best way to have the best of two worlds. Also renting gear then goes out the window. Many actually rent out their weapons that they worked hard for to get high tiered and removing this option kills one way to make back their investment in this game. There is a lot of other good reason for a NERF not being a good solution but this is only one of them.

Also locking it helps very little because there is a lot of good items that is not used during mayhem by the owner himself but he could lend it to a friend and let him use it (like I did in mayhem).

I think the level of equipment required now for MM really does limit the number of people that "feel" they have a chance to bag a prize.

In the old days is was: great gun, best amp, good armour a fapper.

Now it's:

Fastest gun, with best tier (probably pistol or terminator)
Best amour
Best armour plates (mod versions)
Highest tiered arson chip
Pill for everything under the sun.
Cloak
Tons of enhancers
decent pet (next year probably great pet).
And maybe some other stuff I've not thought of yet.

Throw in as well that you probably need to be near the top end of the categories as well, and we are talking some serious peds needed just to compete (or a group of friends that share it all), and that basically wipes out most other competitors.

Now I'm not saying that's wrong, as good gear should be able to get you good prizes.

What the issue for MA is, that many just do not bother for solo in the higher categories, because it's costly for next to zero chance if you don't have the gear. How is this good for MA if maybe only 50 people of less go for Cat 4 and 5

So MA need to get people in there, with a different set of categories. One way of doing this is having a limited hunting gear category (they specify the weapon to enter). Even if the prizes are different and even if it has a handicap of some sorts.

Or they changes the spiders to loads of different levels, so some die quicker than others or something like that. Maybe have special spiders in there, a few different colours that spawn randomly, or special spiders that trigger certain loots.

Point is they need to do something to get players to compete, and if it isn't for the main prizes, it's the hope of finding something in the instance that might pay something decent.

How MA get more solo players to compete is up to them, although I certainly can't see myself competing in cat4 when I can only take down the kerbs. It's simply a waste of money, and demoralizing.

So MA have got to turn me on somehow, to make we want to spend ped. If they do that, I will hunt the MM.

Rick

narfi said:

I would not want my wife or I to be banned.
People are and have been complaining alot about this, but the answer is simple and doesn't HURT or PUNISH anyone.

IF avatarX accepts a competition mission, THEN their UL gear is locked on their avatar until after the competition is over.

Top gear should be allowed to win (if they put in the work along with it) without being punished for their investments or the fact that members of their family play as well. But that doesn't mean that the same gear has to be allowed to win multiple times per event.

Click to expand...

i dont agree with this at all i dont want my gear locked to me for an entire month. what about those people who rent gear from others who pay a per day fee to use that gear and only need 3-4 days max to participate in the event?

You may as well have event guns that aren't tradable then everyone is competing with the same dps.

They could be set to max out at the lowest level of the category.

minim said:

I do not agreed. This is a RCE and starting to block item trades is introducing locks we do not want to see. What about friends that invested in gear togheter and share their items? A lot of the high end gear is expensive and sharing between friends is the best way to have the best of two worlds. Also renting gear then goes out the window. Many actually rent out their weapons that they worked hard for to get high tiered and removing this option kills one way to make back their investment in this game. There is a lot of other good reason for a NERF not being a good solution but this is only one of them.

Also locking it helps very little because there is a lot of good items that is not used during mayhem by the owner himself but he could lend it to a friend and let him use it (like I did in mayhem).

Click to expand...

If a winning piece of gear costs X amount, then I do not see why someone who spent X/y should get a winning prize?


This is a RCE, INVEST what it takes to WIN, don't invest a FRACTION of it and expect the same REWARDS.


If 2+ people went in together to purchase a winning piece of gear, then they should also work together to decide how and who will use it in the event, and how they will divide the prize it is capable of winning.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with renting, lending or borrowing gear for an event, and this would not prevent that. It seems like you are arguing just for the sake of arguing?

Used to be there was much more limited time to do the event, there wasn't much time to share gear. Then lots of people complained that it was too hard to dedicate that much time during the holidays so they increased the times more and more. And here we are.

Check out these events

I'm over trying to win anything from MM. Check my Signature and contact me if you want to participate in a more fair event circuit. HSL w/ big prizes.

SpikeBlack said:

You may as well have event guns that aren't tradable then everyone is competing with the same dps.

They could be set to max out at the lowest level of the category.

Click to expand...

We have this, it is called the HUB - how many times to players go there, I have been just once

Xen said:

Used to be there was much more limited time to do the event, there wasn't much time to share gear. Then lots of people complained that it was too hard to dedicate that much time during the holidays so they increased the times more and more. And here we are.

Click to expand...

Some ideas that may be workable by MA to accommodate more participants and limit sharing of (UL) items:

1: Move the time of the event so it doesn't co-inside with the holidays. This still won't allow all to complete the entire 40 hours, but could enable more players to participate then in the past with original, limited time event.

1a: Cycle the time of event from say, last 2 weeks of January in 1st year, then 1st 2 weeks of February in 2nd year, and last 2 weeks of February in 3rd year, then to 1st 2 weeks of March 4th year, then re-cycle back to last 2 weeks of January in 5th year and so on...again in the attempt to accommodate as many participants as possible each year.

2: Remove the MM instance: This allows more players to participate in event that don't have the skills to hunt the specific mob chosen by MA, in support roles, like in the past. The biggest complaint I recall from players during past MM events was mob stealing. There will always be complaints with this event no matter what MA does, but which complaint is the lessor of evils is better to live with.

3: MA could revert back to the original 40 hours limit and this should curtail the sharing of uber items. The event is "MAYHEM", crazy hunting in limited period of time. it's not the bot invasion or annual migration which from inception, was intended for a longer period of time.

4: Expand the categories. There is no way players at the lower end of cat 4 or 5 have a chance to solo 1/2 the mob in todays instances. If the mob in cat 4 is designed to challenge the player at level 90 - 100, then the player at level 70 - 80 is over matched. So, right there, they have no chance of winning event and are limited to just participating for the fun of it. Without instance, the same level 70 - 80 players might have a chance with support players, like in original designed event. The same players would not attempt to hunt these mob outside of MM without team or healer. How in the heck does MA expect them to compete in MM event, and for heavens sake, do it eco?

Just sharing my thoughts. Some may be workable, some tweaked, but there has to be a design to get more people to participate with a legitimate chance to compete. I don't feel the current MM model is the best setup and needs some serious changes, one way or another.

I think it's as fair as it's ever been - that doesn't mean it can't get better, but It's not bad.
What I saw this year was the gap in categories ... level 70 to 90? That's a huge gap. I'd like to see more categories.

Also my suggestion is make a new layout or mobs. We've had the same one for 3 years - people have it down pat and frankly is getting boring. People have spent hundreds of hours in there.