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explosive bps unbalanced and needs nerf

I have Pinthas on my friends list. I will ask him to stop crafting explosives because Magnus does not like it.
 
RobBuona said:
I have Pinthas on my friends list. I will ask him to stop crafting explosives because Magnus does not like it.
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whats is this stupid answer? i was not whining that ppl click it and get huge hofs...
i know they not profiting...
i don't want anyone to change their behavior...i just want the eu ressource economy not to become totaly irrelevant..

Divinity said:
For the record, its a lot of fun crafting those explo IV bps and i see only win-win from MA's end. The crafter is happy cause of no mu and despite the fact that he loses, he loses at a slower pace and there is no profession that can cycle peds like a crafter can. So why the fuck should MA listen to you ( who are profiting) and not listen to the guy who is happy to lose and keep cycling?
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yea sure it is huge win for mindark..ppl can cycle 24/7 with few secs of restocking...

as i sad before i just feel the ressource economy becoming irrelevant and whats the point for hunters/miners to get ressources no one needs because all weapons are looted hunting and the heavy crafters click their tt stuff?



i see alot of ppl don't see a problem...i hope they are right
 
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Divinity said:
Funny people.. Those who know the least shout the loudest.

Anyways, it is MA's job to make it tougher for u to profit/break even. Your goal is find news ways to do that. For a change, MA now actually after a long long time has made hunting more profitable then mining. Kudos to them for that, that was much needed :)
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:lolup: right.... if you use a maxed imkII vs lvl13 amps maybe
 
Magnus Mag said:
as i sad before i just feel the ressource economy becoming irrelevant and whats the point for hunters/miners to get ressources no one needs because all weapons are looted hunting and the heavy crafters click their tt stuff?
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So true :wise:
 
Magnus Mag said:
whats is this stupid answer? i was not whining that ppl click it and get huge hofs...
i know they not profiting...
i don't want anyone to change their behavior...i just want the eu ressource economy not to become totaly irrelevant..



yea sure it is huge win for mindark..ppl can cycle 24/7 with few secs of restocking...

as i sad before i just feel the ressource economy becoming irrelevant and whats the point for hunters/miners to get ressources no one needs because all weapons are looted hunting and the heavy crafters click their tt stuff?



i see alot of ppl don't see a problem...i hope they are right
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1 not won't crash the economy ffs, people still craft, amps, weapons, armors, enhancers, sights, Scopes, components and all kinda other shit.

I assure u no matter how any of us grind explosive BP's, L bp for gun, armor, etc will not drop so, those things will still get crafted I assure u.

Why not ask the crafers instead of a mass of people who don't know what they are talking about? (There are a few that spoke in this thread this comment isn't meant for).
 
Realy? if you dont see dmg explosive bp make in our economy you are blind ....
I vote to remove explosive III and IV and reward crafters with unique BP
maybe new AMP UL? to make back mining amp <--> crafter cycle back?
 
well at this point no make diference at all for economy ;) but gamblers are happy
 
If it helps MA stay in business that's good for everyone.
 
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Divinity said:
As for ul mining amp, nothing changes really. When L amps were 110% the mu on ores was 130%. Now when L is 105% the ores is 115%. So ul amps still work because without that u won't be able to find the differential in terms of pricing. <--- Aimed at those who think ul amps became irrelevant :)
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I know that you will protect their investment until the end.
But the end is already here (lvl 5 amp for 102-103% is new reality). Remember what happened in 2008 (Unless of course you were at that time in the game). You will realize that a similar situation now, just not in your favor.

dr3w said:
Let's get back to numbers?
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No, I will not go back. I always break any reasonable MU. Also, your math is not suitable for me. For you, EU is the work - for me it's a game. Different terms - different turnover - different math
 
Gewitter said:
No, I will not go back. I always break any reasonable MU. Also, your math is not suitable for me. For you, EU is the work - for me it's a game. Different terms - different turnover - different math
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Then please, shut the fuckup about mechanics, returns and math, if you can't support your bullshit about breaking even with level 13s. I don't see you dropping them, and I never will.

Gewitter said:
I know that you will protect their investment until the end.
But the end is already here (lvl 5 amp for 102-103% is new reality).
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The end is in your head, if you think that lvl5 for 102%-103% will stay.
 
dr3w said:
Then please, shut the fuckup ... The end is in your head
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I always knew that you are a boor.
But anyway, do not worry, just adapt :laugh:
 
Gewitter, you make no sense. You say you are a miner and then you say that MU on ores/enmatter is irrelevant.

That doesn't make sense :confused:

Unless you believe you can get positive tt returns, then that is another argument.
Or you are quite happy losing ped, which again is another argument.

They are talking about the economy here, and as always it will adjust, and if it doesnt adjust then MA goes bust and no more game. What matters here is how it adjusts and the overall effect on the economy. YOu argued before that explosive bps will not make a difference, they have made a massive difference, you now claim massievly reduced residue and reduced markup on ores will not make a difference. I think you are a tad blind to simple economics.

And Dr3w is absolutely correct, don't talk about average markup then not back it up. I suspect you have no idea how much markup you make on average mining. I would even guess you have no idea of your tt returns in mining. A guess yes, and i am sure you will come back with "I record everything" b******t. Which you will say but not provide any numbers of course, cause you don't have them.

Rgds

Ace
 
Gewitter said:
I always knew that you are a boor.
But anyway, do not worry, just adapt :laugh:
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Well, Im afraid you are just trolling here.

Entropia was always well known as game focused on balancing, markup, economy, carefull planing. It wasnt perfect, but I think it wasnt far from it also.
Explosives are burning this all down.
Im curios how will Mindark react to this situation. Beacuse if they simply take the mu out of the game, hardly anyone will stay.

There is no point in game where u have 10% lost on every run. You put 100 usd in, 90 will be given back. With no additional corrections by markup.
Thats a nonsense. Markup is something what is keeping us ingame, what is keeping us deposits, markup is the key, what keeps this universe alive.
 
If they are unbalanced try to click it :) There is so many hofs due to crafting on condition and easy access to nanocubes. I believe those bps have a positive impact on whole economy, residue went down which will have impact on craftable things.
 
No, this is not trolling. I'll skip past the ears your stupid comments.
I'm trying to explain to you that the MU on items that have been used previously for gambling and HoF's becomes higher, with the exception of those that require a lot of residue, which is why these items is fallen. I see it in the increased sales in my Shops. Decreases the influence of those, who do a dumping. For myself personally - I'm not that depend on the MU, as you think. Not so much ores or loot that I buy, and most of the resources that I find I use myself, and do not sell. You have not heard about the concept of a closed loop (mining - crafting - selling - mining and so on)? I find it easier to make and sell the item, and not to sell resources for low MU. It is not necessary to think one-sided. For me, BP on explosives - is increased income.
 
Aside from UL amp users and unamp miners i dont see how this could be bad for anyone else (like enh crafters, they just sell enh for little more and thats it).
 
Piotr said:
Aside from UL amp users and unamp miners i dont see how this could be bad for anyone else (like enh crafters, they just sell enh for little more and thats it).
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Depends how you look at it, one possible outcome, (i am not saying this WILL happen, just could)

With a crash in markup, those who play for profit will stop.

No profit makers in game. MA make less money, (some of the biggest turnover players are profit players)

MA goes bust.

Just one unlikely outcome.

CLD's crash and less turnover in game. Cause of no markup.

Less players etc etc, use your imagination.

Most likely majority of players will adjust, but there is a possibility that there will be a lot less players available. Which could turn MA over the edge into losing money = no game

Rgds

Ace
 
Piotr said:
Aside from UL amp users and unamp miners i dont see how this could be bad for anyone else (like enh crafters, they just sell enh for little more and thats it).
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If you do not combine 2-3 activities and doing something only one like mining, it may have value for you. Because overall MU for resources is falling. You can't see that if you mostly use TT stuff and sell end-product. This is the same like Explosives, but is somewhat more complicated and more interesting in several stages, on each of which you can win.

PS And Ace, you are wrong
 
Ace Flyster said:
More than likely, but MA do need to be careful when controlling markup.
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They are trying, but any innovation is still touches someone, and spawn threads like this.
 
Its not a good innovation though. Its also not a knock on crafting and as many have pointed out it may be a slight positive for crafting. Less gamblers destroying MU on crafted items by selling fast, cheaper res means cheaper end items, less demand for some mats means cheaper end items, etc.

It is a HUGE nerf to mining though. They will get a double punch from cheaper amps increasing supply to the biggest consumers (gamblers) moving to tt mats.

The amp gambler <-> miner link was the last solid link between the three main professions. Hunting has been just one big circle jerk since MA destroyed weapon crafting last year. Now with this crafting is on its way to circle jerking and miners will be left holding their own wondering what the hell happened.



All in all it highlights a very disturbing trend coming from MA. They are no longer putting the general economy first, they are putting themselves first. Shrap, cash shop pills and now tt crafting. I am terrified of what they come up with next.
 
There are only fears that the overall income will decrease. But there will not be a total loss for all players, in near future. If you live on the money earned here, this era is coming to an end. Perhaps this is the plan of MA. You're afraid of this? I suspect that the way it is. But it seems to me that the game does not die, and maybe even on the contrary, would be better.
 
Destroying MU is never a good thing. If people cant make money in this game, they will not play. There are many better and cheaper games out there :)

Lets be honest, without RCE this game is shit...
 
Gewitter said:
If you live on the money earned here, this era is coming to an end.
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Anyone not deeply scared of that needs to look around. This is a niche game that attracts dedicated followers, not because they will make money at it but because the OPPORTUNITY to make money at it is there.

If MA intents to reduce MU to nothing then there is nothing attractive about this game. It will become yet another in a long line of failed grind based MMOs. With out the attraction of being able to "win" in the RCE people will realize just how bland of a game entropia is.
 
Svena said:
All in all it highlights a very disturbing trend coming from MA. They are no longer putting the general economy first, they are putting themselves first. Shrap, cash shop pills and now tt crafting. I am terrified of what they come up with next.
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My observation - they going into "microtransaction" style, it will be more Zynga-style at facebook. They just removing/shrinking most possibilities to profit by pure game mechanics, slowing down turnovers and etc.

Sure, there will be always possibilities to profit.

Just some idiots doesn't understand the difference between selling 1000PED item for 105%, and 1PED item for 300%.

That game have only one content ever: profit by pure game mechanics, this is The Drive of everything - someone loses, someone wins. The flow goes on. It is the core of EU.

There is no content like graphics, storylines, fun stuff and etc, well, compared to real "games".
 
Gewitter, it's not that I disagree with you but you're being a bit of an arsehole and I don't think that's a smart move when you are trying to run a business.

I make weapons and armour and related gear. The change in res MU clearly helps there. But it's not a huge impact. I was buying res at around 107%. Now I get it at 102 - 103%. At best I get a reduction of less than 5% of TT in cost to craft (its closer to 3%), so I can cut my price a little or increase my margin. And this is balanced a little by the increased cost to make required components which rely on res production to control cost. So am I better off because of change in res MU? Maybe a little. It's hard to say.

John B Knight makes an interesting point about the availability of mined goods now that many gamblers are making explosive ammo. And that's definitely good for me. It's difficult for me to quantify the impact cos I don't really know what crafting gamblers used to click as that's not a space I play in. However I am seeing mining MU come down on a range of resources and that helps my bottom line. I think this is the real benefit of the change for me. I can appreciate how miners would not be happy about this aspect.

I won't really know the overall impact on my business for a few months since crafting results are so variable. Hopefully I can trim prices a little on the bigger items, increasing sales, and cut costs a little on the smaller gear where I tend to run at a loss. 2014 was my best year so far for my crafting business and this year is looking healthy so far so I can take some time to adjust to the changing economy. Certainly I've had tougher challenges in the past.

I don't really understand the arguement that reduction in cost of mining amps is bad. Or perhaps I misunderstood what was written. Seems to me that miners cost to mine is reduced which should help with reduced loot mu.
 
You can think what you want about me - it does not matter.
Important only conclude that all old gameplay in EU was tied to several hundred people who gambled here, successfully burning everything that was mined or hunted by thousands of others. This is wrong, it should not be. I think giving to these gamblers Explosive BP's, MA do the right thing. Microtransactions - this is what we need. We do not need 200-500 rich players doing their business in the loss of all the rest, we need 20000-50000 middle-class players, and only in this case, the game can be accessible and interesting. Actually, I always thought that the original idea was in this. But it become a casino for 200-500 VIPs, and players, who invested their money to earn more on these gamblers.
I would place the MA went on. Why BP? Make a casino rooms and there will be able to come and who wants to play there. All the others will be able to establish a normal economy, not the economy, where everything is produced for burning by several gamblers for several thousand clicks. Now these people are free, and they will be less likely to contact us for resources. This means that resource consumption is reduced, if the player base not increase. But it does not need to whine, like they say 'has left our light in the window', and just invite a friend, who will be a regular player who will participate in production and consumption. Only in this way and no other way you can partially eliminate the element of gambling in EU.

Of course, changes will affect all, many ppl will leave. It is a pity of course, but I still believe that all is moving in the right direction. Most people not need to make money here, they need atleast to have a good time here.
 
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