explosive bps unbalanced and needs nerf

Well Gold will always be around 200% till other ores are worth more... as it is twice as good as the TT value of the worst for Ship SI improvements so basicly Gold is at a low MU amount also....

That is not the reason, the reason for the high gold markup are the use in several 'upgrade' missions (adjusted/improved/modified) as well as the recent popularity of certain crafting bp's (eg. terratech, etc.).
Ship SI upgrades havent changed much since 2011 - they only make up a fraction of the total gold turnover and if you check gold markup then you will see that gold has been down at 103-108% for many years during which ships got upgraded.
 
Actually minning is still suffering. If you see good mu on some ores it is usually mean that ores become less common and miners have difficulties to mine it. I am almost sure that now gazz and gold is much harder to find. Demand on ores and enm still poor. And if you even find gazz threre is many tt or near tt food come along with it. BTW EL is good indicator. And it says minning is not in good shape now.
 
That is not the reason, the reason for the high gold markup are the use in several 'upgrade' missions (adjusted/improved/modified) as well as the recent popularity of certain crafting bp's (eg. terratech, etc.).
Ship SI upgrades havent changed much since 2011 - they only make up a fraction of the total gold turnover and if you check gold markup then you will see that gold has been down at 103-108% for many years during which ships got upgraded.

JBK thanks for that and calling me out on something I assumed was the main cause for the gold price :ahh:
 
That is not the reason, the reason for the high gold markup are the use in several 'upgrade' missions (adjusted/improved/modified) as well as the recent popularity of certain crafting bp's (eg. terratech, etc.).
Ship SI upgrades havent changed much since 2011 - they only make up a fraction of the total gold turnover and if you check gold markup then you will see that gold has been down at 103-108% for many years during which ships got upgraded.

I bet 100 gold bars at most were used in terratech...just saying... only the PH-4 L, which recently dropped and no one uses yet, uses 2 bars per click...not many of these made yet...the other ones use no gold (the common L PH-2 and L PH-3 and the UL PH-3)

But I do agree with you, and remember it as almost tt food for over a year when ships were being upgraded during that time.

Either way, the EP-4 and the res it makes killed this game for me...I tried to fight through it, but not any more. I will do champions league and other than that, I will be on caly selling 8500 items.
 
I bet 100 gold bars at most were used in terratech...just saying... only the PH-4 L, which recently dropped and no one uses yet, uses 2 bars per click...not many of these made yet...the other ones use no gold (the common L PH-2 and L PH-3 and the UL PH-3)

But I do agree with you, and remember it as almost tt food for over a year when ships were being upgraded during that time.

Either way, the EP-4 and the res it makes killed this game for me...I tried to fight through it, but not any more. I will do champions league and other than that, I will be on caly selling 8500 items.

I'm with you, in the move to sell. It wasn't just the EP that killed it for me, but that and other connected moves by MA. Mining has such low MU and awful returns in my experience and from what I hear other soc m8s get - iron is TT food for example. Many or most resources have 102-106% mu. This is also the same with most hunting loot. Getting excited because something is 106 is terrible. There is little reason to craft and therefore even less reason to mine. Hunting continues it's normal heavy loss as well with many other changes that rapidly effect MU and investments. UL armor and items continue to drop in price - skills are super low in value. Buffs can stack and you can get +15 hp from buffs - (not cheap or easy, but still). Finally, pvp is a complete pile of shit - it used to be lame and then a joke, now it's just stupid bullshit (team target avatars, drag health bars if someone is in range, using friends list to tell someone is range, auto-select target, auto aim, use of pets as shields)
I still been playing, but selling skills and items and not depositing. Somehow I've been finding cheap activities that keep me engaged, but something in this game has died inside of me.

That's my 2 pecs and I dont' know where that all came from because it is pretty off topic...
 
Either way, the EP-4 and the res it makes killed this game for me...I tried to fight through it, but not any more. I will do champions league and other than that, I will be on caly selling 8500 items.

I also think the EP-4 bp was a big mistake, demand for hunted/mined stuff has dropped to a point where i spend most time in EU selling stuff for another run. Never known stackable markets so stagnant, and as for mined resources mark ups are laughable in the main. Then of course is residue.... the mark up speaks for itself.

Just slowly selling stockpiles, healing, sweating and looking for any opportunities to break even or profit atm.
 
So now we have 3 ATH in just over week.

67889 PED 2015-09-27
72319 PED 2015-10-03
185255 PED 2015-10-04

Its great for the guys who got them, but does seem a bit out of sink.
 
Well..remove ammo from huntingloot and replace it with nanocubes, and ofc.. stop selling nanocubes in TT ! That would do it i think !
 
Well..remove ammo from huntingloot and replace it with nanocubes, and ofc.. stop selling nanocubes in TT ! That would do it i think !

At first I thought this was stupid. But how would they even go about "removing" a blueprint with such a high markup? I highly doubt they would compensate the players in PED.

Removing nanocubes from the TT and putting them in say robot loot for example actually seems like a smart solution. And god knows we all hate seeing Ammo in our loot window.
 
At first I thought this was stupid. But how would they even go about "removing" a blueprint with such a high markup? I highly doubt they would compensate the players in PED.

They have removed and compensated before....

I cannot remember the exact details, it was before my time, but crafting got an overhaul and a few players that had invested heavily received shadow armor as compensation.

Details are probaby off a bit, but you get the idea.

Rgds

Ace
 
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So now we have 3 ATH in just over week.

67889 PED 2015-09-27
72319 PED 2015-10-03
185255 PED 2015-10-04

Its great for the guys who got them, but does seem a bit out of sink.

A great incentive not to log in and not waste ped.
Just wanted to log in and go mine again, after checking this out and remembering about the plague of explosives (i.e. this forsaken BP ruining the economy), the urge to play is gone again :laugh:
Thx! Saved me some nerves and money.
 
So now we have 3 ATH in just over week.

67889 PED 2015-09-27
72319 PED 2015-10-03
185255 PED 2015-10-04

Its great for the guys who got them, but does seem a bit out of sink.

Plus token were used here just as if playing a casino and not sure how MA can get away with this much longer.

I said this in the past but as well sad to see that these tokens have been added for one main reason. With these new tokens MA can advertise the platform to other buyers much easier this way. Give them a few tokens and let them demo the game. MA has already sold off the platform to one casino and I'm guessing a few more are in the works.

So I ask you MA will you please stop this! You are making me sound like an old time player here who has nothing better to do then bitch!
 
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I'm afraid MA is probably making way too much money from this bp for them to remove it.
 
At first I thought this was stupid. But how would they even go about "removing" a blueprint with such a high markup? I highly doubt they would compensate the players in PED.

They don't remove the blueprint...they remove the mats. Think something similar happened to the P5a(L) BP back then....just it wasn't a TT ingredient.
 
They have removed and compensated before....

I cannot remember the exact details, it was before my time, but crafting got an overhaul and a few players that had invested heavily received shadow armor as compensation.

Details are probaby off a bit, but you get the idea.

Rgds

Ace

Compensation notes from a while back...
http://www.entropiaplanets.com/threads/estates-on-the-wiki.8685/page-2#post-56291 Just a few examples of times various forms of compensation has been done that are documented. There's probably more somewhere.
 
They don't remove the blueprint...they remove the mats. Think something similar happened to the P5a(L) BP back then....just it wasn't a TT ingredient.

...and IIRC there were no any kind of compensation for BP owners. Officialy all is ok. Unofficialy lot of crafters get slap in the face. It was impossible for smth like this to happen before 2008. Thats main reason after all this years anly a handfull of ppl playing this game. MA "knows" how to gain players trust and how it is important ;)
 
After taking an extended 6-month break from EU (logged on once a month to check the game), I was hoping to come back this fall and see some improvements/balancing made regarding the damage the explosives have done to the markup and the economy...

To put it bluntly I was sort of disgusted that the economy was allowed to erode even further.. mining used to be ~1-1.5mil on the tracker, now hovering around 500k week to week. Hunting has declined by a few hundred thousand as well for the monthly stats, but crafting seems to still be doing alright..

Here's what I found most alarming, as a summary of events:

1) BPs introduce -> hunting/mining markup crashes exponentially
2) Shrapnel introduced to increase the markup of generic/common hunting resources to make them actually worth selling on auction after fees. (this worked well, for a while eye/muscle oil was around 110-114%)
3) further decline of markup on hunting resources from gamblers deciding to switch their routine over to crafting explosive bps...

This would be fine if there were enough crafters crafting usable items outside of the gamblers, but there just isn't... crafting is very expensive to do, and offers some of the lowest potential ROI of any activity in game.. So while hunters and miners remained relatively constant, crafters were cut in half, resulting in the oversaturation we see now.

I fully understand that MA needs to make money, and high markup output hinders that ability... but they really do need a balance, or else spending time on core-gameplay loses its draw..

I know very very few players who would hunt/mine knowing that the best they'll do on average is 105% markup. I personally know it's possible to do better than this, but odds are 90% of players won't.

So I think we've just seen less people playing, but that could also be due to the summer holiday months, but when the full swing of fall/winter comes I think MA will be alarmed at the dismal state of their quarterly reports.

I just have no interest in attempting to hunt or mine right now, I pretty much sit in game on chat or doing soc stuff while I collect revenue from CLDs. Everytime I get the incentive to start an iron mission or start mining again I lose that draw immediately after my first run when I see that there is no chance for me to recuperate my costs without beating the system TT-wise or finding some 1/100000 chance UL item.

It's just downright depressing because I want to play, but the game isn't entertaining enough for me to want to sit there and grind away peds for 90% return and 104% markup.

Hopefully we see improvement in the coming future of EU, and if not then it's time to find a new hobby for the winter. :smoke:
 
I agree Sean but I think that over the next 6 to 9 months, our understanding of how to profit in hunting on this game will be forced to change. Rather than farming for wools and oils and occasional items.. they're going to be in farming consumable mission related items that will flip tt into markup.. example would be bio ids and Fluxes. Yes the market was great for a while but limited people will be buying those restoration chips. This is just a start. I have a sneaking suspicion that they are about to implement similar in upgrading rings.. take 10 limited ares rings plus farm able mats (like tiering) and combine into an ares ring adjusted and so on. Then insert amulets and other items to create a new market. It's a guess but I can see this coming.. it is a current trend. Implementing such a thing is a win for mindark, like with faps, because it turns a sum of tt into lower tt and value markup like with deeds. It Pays For solvency.. It pays for new development. . It pays for your withdrawls.

Just want to point before people get upset by this possibility... we DID ask for this... it just wasn't in the form of jewelry.. it was tiering existing weapons.. upgrade to tier 10 and move on to the next item chain.. adj etc.
 
It's just downright depressing because I want to play, but the game isn't entertaining enough for me to want to sit there and grind away peds for 90% return and 104% markup.

i agree, the last times i logged in and played some i logged of after and thought, well this was not fun...
the chance for goodhofs on smaller stuff is long gone but also no mu to aim for...
last few weeks i only logged in to fill auc...

I agree Sean but I think that over the next 6 to 9 months, our understanding of how to profit in hunting on this game will be forced to change. Rather than farming for wools and oils and occasional items.. they're going to be in farming consumable mission related items that will flip tt into markup.. example would be bio ids and Fluxes. Yes the market was great for a while but limited people will be buying those restoration chips. This is just a start. I have a sneaking suspicion that they are about to implement similar in upgrading rings.. take 10 limited ares rings plus farm able mats (like tiering) and combine into an ares ring adjusted and so on. Then insert amulets and other items to create a new market. It's a guess but I can see this coming.. it is a current trend. Implementing such a thing is a win for mindark, like with faps, because it turns a sum of tt into lower tt and value markup like with deeds. It Pays For solvency.. It pays for new development. . It pays for your withdrawls.

Just want to point before people get upset by this possibility... we DID ask for this... it just wasn't in the form of jewelry.. it was tiering existing weapons.. upgrade to tier 10 and move on to the next item chain.. adj etc.

the "upgrade" ingredient items is bad mu...
its pseudo mu, it only lasts as long as people upgrade, then when all who wanted upgraded their unl item the price is down because the ingredients are no longer needed...
it falls from beginning...

why not drop rare ingredients for crafting i don't understand...make some cool eco high tt L weaps toi craft..but no the ingredients are given to npc for unl item..stupid..

they need to add lots of crafted L items which get consumed...
in real life all items die sooner or later...here some items NEVER die and get more and more...
ppl leave sell their unl items so they keep being in circulation, playerbase don't increase much but still they release mroe and more and more unl..
rings from boxes etc..nearly all new items only in hunting loot....each vu the rce dies a little more...

some hoped explosive was part of giving real crafters a chance...the gamblers get distracted from crafting useful stuff so the market for L gets a little better (less undercutting etc)...
yea..would have been nice...
 
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I agree Sean but I think that over the next 6 to 9 months, our understanding of how to profit in hunting on this game will be forced to change. Rather than farming for wools and oils and occasional items.. they're going to be in farming consumable mission related items that will flip tt into markup..

I think there could be worse things than this, but I'm still not too excited on the idea of this game turning into a giant grind fest for mission items. At that point it loses the draw of being a sandbox platforms and turns into a shitty sci-fy mmo with real money.

I might be pleading a dying concept, but I think MA needs to fix the core gameplay and economics first before implementing mission grinding.. It's like it's a distraction away from the real problem.. If people do missions constantly they don't have to see how broken the trinity of professions is.

Hunting, mining, and crafting have to all be reliant upon each other.. When one profession can disappear from that system the remaining two are doomed. Effectively what explosive bps are doing, just a little bit slower than I originally thought
 
and we get another ath 79533 ped , that bp realy fuck all economy and need be balanced :wise:
 
We need the gamblers to consume more mining/hunting loots not tt cubes.

OR we just need the miners/hunters gambling on the cubes instead of doing whatever they are doing that isn't working for them. Hell, explosives are a form of ammo, so the clicking ought to be supporting the hunters, at least those that utilize explosives in their endeavors.

If what you are doing ain't working try something else. How's that old saying go, definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
 
OR we just need the miners/hunters gambling on the cubes instead of doing whatever they are doing that isn't working for them. Hell, explosives are a form of ammo, so the clicking ought to be supporting the hunters, at least those that utilize explosives in their endeavors.

If what you are doing ain't working try something else. How's that old saying go, definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


OK so what your saying is miners need to stop mining and start crafting(if you can call it that) and hunters need to sell all their guns and switch to rockets? :scratch:
 
OK so what your saying is miners need to stop mining and start crafting(if you can call it that) and hunters need to sell all their guns and switch to rockets? :scratch:

Just saying if what you are doing isn't working, adjust what you are doing...
 
Just saying if what you are doing isn't working, adjust what you are doing...

That's 99.9% of the problem we're all arguing here... The issue is that people will change their activities, and they will adjust.. and most of them will do so in a way that is detrimental to the economy and the core gameplay.

Hunters will stop hunting, miners will stop mining, people will quit over the constant grind fest for garbage mission rewards. Why do you think we have a damn event every other week? To keep us side-tracked away from the garbage core of the game that MA has neglected so deeply through poor decisions like the explosive IV BP.

People don't play = we all lose
People don't hunt/mine = MA loses
Ma loses = we all lose

The gameplay needs to be deeper than fuzzy pets, mission grinding, holiday events, and mindless clicking of explosives IV and strongboxes. The game won't survive in its current state.. which probably explains MA dumping all of their resources into compets to buy them some funding and time to fix the game if they ever get around to it and if it can even be fixed at this point.

The crucial element for the success of EU, the economy in game, and MA's bottom line is more long-lasting invested players. You won't get that from pets, or mission grinding, or clicking explosives.

Most people stick around in this game based upon the illusion of actually profiting from this game or hitting a huge ATH. It's an addictive illusion... but 104% average markup is not going to make the dream survive, and neither will explosives ATHs
 
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