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explosive bps unbalanced and needs nerf

Fiona Simmons said:
If you see how many people use the ep blueprints mindark just delivered something a lot of players wished for. Starting crafters must love it because it provide them with a more eco way to build skills than before.
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Starting crafters do not get an EP I BP. Also, that BP is total bullshit. Despite starting off with an 85% CoS, It is success or fail with very few near successes. Successes are pretty much dead even on value but what ought to be NSes are straight up fails. This BP may give new crafters some skills, but it is a fucking rippoff machine other than that.
 
I am not sure if this has been mentioned or thought about but anyone consider these BP's were put in game because of new Space Weapons coming out with someday updates to space?

If they add rockets it would only be obvious to use explosive projectiles and with the high consumption rate of space craft weapons and prospect of lots of space battles, someday Explosive Projectiles might be a market...

True now they are not used much but who knows what MA has planned, pretty sure there is some type of weird logic for what they are doing. With MA probably bad logic but pretty sure they have something up their sleeves.

About OP and stating the BP's are unbalanced, grabbing that data off EL.com doesn't prove anything about how the BP's are balanced it just proves we all like standing at the new slot machine style crafting machines. BP isn't unbalanced it is our players brain chemistry that is unbalanced is all those stats prove :D
 
Ape Drape said:
Starting crafters do not get an EP I BP. Also, that BP is total bullshit. Despite starting off with an 85% CoS, It is success or fail with very few near successes. Successes are pretty much dead even on value but what ought to be NSes are straight up fails. This BP may give new crafters some skills, but it is a fucking rippoff machine other than that.
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No. of success/fails/nears is exactly the same as all other bps of this type

Rgds

Ace
 
Ace Flyster said:
No. of success/fails/nears is exactly the same as all other bps of this type

Rgds

Ace
Click to expand...


No it isn't.

I've had an EP II BP and those Success/Near and Fails were more in line with starting a fresh component BP, but EP I is total bullshit. I know that Mindark considers Near Success to be a success when feeding you your CoS lie, but a fail is a flat out fail and 60% fail rate on an 85% CoS is bullshit.

The only thing factored in Success Rate is an actual success. So while 40% success rate is normal for a maxed BP, the absence of near success means BIG losses because you have no residue to dump afterwards to help make up the other 45% of your clicks MA said would be your chance of success. The EP I BP is a complete rip off and is a terrible BP for new crafters.
 
the problem is simple

the explosive bp uses tt stuff to craft

for a good economie you need to use more looted stuff from miner hunters and crafters

one big problem tooo many items for what needed

say now the explosive bp poeple buy 1 million ped per day to craft whit that items are not baught from miners hunters or crafter

so your loot in the long run will be worth nothing if they keep going that way

from one thing MA is not the smartest poeple they seem to faill to think of the consequence in anything they doo
 
Ape Drape said:
No it isn't.

I've had an EP II BP and those Success/Near and Fails were more in line with starting a fresh component BP, but EP I is total bullshit. I know that Mindark considers Near Success to be a success when feeding you your CoS lie, but a fail is a flat out fail and 60% fail rate on an 85% CoS is bullshit.

The only thing factored in Success Rate is an actual success. So while 40% success rate is normal for a maxed BP, the absence of near success means BIG losses because you have no residue to dump afterwards to help make up the other 45% of your clicks MA said would be your chance of success. The EP I BP is a complete rip off and is a terrible BP for new crafters.
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atomicstorm said:
No.. it really isnt. The end result might be the same (which I don't believe) but there are a lot more failures.
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Okay, so you guys make the claim, which means of course you have numbers to show this.....please give us the numbers.

(Because of course you wouldnt make such an enormous claim without proof, that would just make you look ******)

Rgds

Ace
 
Ape Drape said:
The only thing factored in Success Rate is an actual success. So while 40% success rate is normal
Click to expand...

Sorry but i can't take your story about succes rates seriously after that claim.
 
Ace Flyster said:
Okay, so you guys make the claim, which means of course you have numbers to show this.....please give us the numbers.

(Because of course you wouldnt make such an enormous claim without proof, that would just make you look ******)

Rgds

Ace
Click to expand...

Just my two pecs...

But I think their observance of such a "lack of near successes" might be due to the fact that the costs per click of the blueprint is "very low".

EP I - 2 Nanocubes (0.02 PEDs)
EP II - 20 Nanocubes (0.20 PEDs)

I've also noticed that when crafting textures like Brukites and Nissits....the number of near successes is surprisingly low if not totally absent.

And if you think about it....with that kind of cost per click....would it even be logical to give out the "same" distribution of near successes as seen in higher costs per click bps?

Considering that near successes returns part of the materials required for the click itself...so what should the system give back to you in this case?

1 or 2 Nanocubes? (For EP I)
1, 2, 3, ..., 20 Nanocubes? (For EP II)

Or perhaps fragments for that matter? (Don't think crafting have any of those fragment TT value stuff)

If you get what I'm saying here...

Its a combination of the way crafting system loots or pays back, plus the low costs per click of the EP I bp, plus the high TT Value of the nanocubes and we get this abomination of a poor returns BP "bug" (most likely).
 
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sawachika said:
Just my two pecs...

But I think their observance of such a "lack of near successes" might be due to the fact that the costs per click of the blueprint is "very low".

EP I - 2 Nanocubes (0.02 PEDs)
EP II - 20 Nanocubes (0.20 PEDs)

I've also noticed that when crafting textures like Brukites and Nissits....the number of near successes is surprisingly low if not totally absent.

And if you think about it....with that kind of cost per click....would it even be logical to give out the "same" distribution of near successes as seen in higher costs per click bps?

Considering that near successes returns part of the materials required for the click itself...so what should the system give back to you in this case?

1 or 2 Nanocubes? (For EP I)
1, 2, 3, ..., 20 Nanocubes? (For EP II)

Or perhaps fragments for that matter? (Don't think crafting have any of those fragment TT value stuff)

If you get what I'm saying here...

(A combination of the way crafting system loots/paybacks, plus the low costs per click of the EP I bp, plus the high TT Value of the nanocubes and we get this abomination of a poor returns BP.)
Click to expand...

I understand, especially when you consider EP I at 0.02 ped per click, so just waiting for them to post their results.

Rgds

Ace
 
JD RACING said:
the problem is simple

the explosive bp uses tt stuff to craft

for a good economie you need to use more looted stuff from miner hunters and crafters

one big problem tooo many items for what needed

say now the explosive bp poeple buy 1 million ped per day to craft whit that items are not baught from miners hunters or crafter

so your loot in the long run will be worth nothing if they keep going that way

from one thing MA is not the smartest poeple they seem to faill to think of the consequence in anything they doo
Click to expand...

problem is simple but different....

There shall be also BP's for BLP and LASER ammo made same way + minimal auction fee 1 pec not 1 ped. That would solve all 3 problems at once. (crafter gamblers, stack size, ammo price up to 101% in very bad market condidtions - usually cheaper )

If only mining probes, loot pils etc could be crafted whole TT could be changed to sale/dump TT only function and give additional boost to activity os players.
 
Ace Flyster said:
I understand, especially when you consider EP I at 0.02 ped per click, so just waiting for them to post their results.

Rgds

Ace
Click to expand...

After around 200k clicks on condition i can say that it all goes to the regular 5% succes rate.
No idea what happens when you're not crafting on condition though.
 
Harmony. said:
After around 200k clicks on condition i can say that it all goes to the regular 5% succes rate.
No idea what happens when you're not crafting on condition though.
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The entire premise is a fail.

Did any of you hunt or craft to see the obvious.
 
shoti said:
problem is simple but different....

There shall be also BP's for BLP and LASER ammo made same way + minimal auction fee 1 pec not 1 ped. That would solve all 3 problems at once. (crafter gamblers, stack size, ammo price up to 101% in very bad market condidtions - usually cheaper )

If only mining probes, loot pils etc could be crafted whole TT could be changed to sale/dump TT only function and give additional boost to activity os players.
Click to expand...

not an issue Shoti.

What is the loss is shooting, then crafting, then shooting then making a bp run.
 
shoti said:
problem is simple but different....

There shall be also BP's for BLP and LASER ammo made same way + minimal auction fee 1 pec not 1 ped. That would solve all 3 problems at once. (crafter gamblers, stack size, ammo price up to 101% in very bad market condidtions - usually cheaper )

If only mining probes, loot pils etc could be crafted whole TT could be changed to sale/dump TT only function and give additional boost to activity os players.
Click to expand...

interesting idea. Don't stop with ammo though, also make probes, mining equipment, refiner, etc. all crafted. Hell, remove the technician and auction while at it. Remove the repair terminals too. Make repairs only able to be done the way vehicle SI are repaired.

:eyecrazy::cowboy::banghead:
 
mastermesh said:
interesting idea. Don't stop with ammo though, also make probes, mining equipment, refiner, etc. all crafted. Hell, remove the technician and auction while at it. Remove the repair terminals too. Make repairs only able to be done the way vehicle SI are repaired.

:eyecrazy::cowboy::banghead:
Click to expand...

Removing auction would cause to much difficulties, not all want sell pvp and buy pvp...it is always slower than buying/seling at auction/terminal

Also repairing terminals as way of bringing up no fee and MU TT can't be replaced by players service ( can be by tools thou )

As for all TT gear for newbies much better gear can be obtained via auction (azuro, b101 etc.) problem is 1 ped fee and pricing for whole peds which is making newbie gear some crazy %'s of MU.

If Explosive Projectile users can run their guns on auction based ,crafted ammo then whole comunity can...and miners too.
 
Harmony. said:
Sorry but i can't take your story about succes rates seriously after that claim.
Click to expand...

And what is not factual about that claim? When your success rate is calculated at the end of a run, only the successes are counted. 36% to 41% success rate is normal for component crafting on full quantity. 41% can even be considered a good run, however, absent the mat or residue producing near successes, a 41% success rate for a run is straight up no lube butt-!!!!.

Don't confuse CoS with SR. One is a misleading statement from MA to get you to do a crafting run, one is the results you got after doing it.

So, if you get better success rates when you do 1K clicks (or more) on components you are the luckiest person in Entropia. And doing 2 clicks on something and getting 2 successes is not proof that I am wrong.

P.S. Crafting components on full quality is just dumb. Don't do it.
 
Ape Drape said:
No it isn't.

I've had an EP II BP and those Success/Near and Fails were more in line with starting a fresh component BP, but EP I is total bullshit. I know that Mindark considers Near Success to be a success when feeding you your CoS lie, but a fail is a flat out fail and 60% fail rate on an 85% CoS is bullshit.

The only thing factored in Success Rate is an actual success. So while 40% success rate is normal for a maxed BP, the absence of near success means BIG losses because you have no residue to dump afterwards to help make up the other 45% of your clicks MA said would be your chance of success. The EP I BP is a complete rip off and is a terrible BP for new crafters.
Click to expand...

atomicstorm said:
No.. it really isnt. The end result might be the same (which I don't believe) but there are a lot more failures.
Click to expand...


Seems i need to make an apology, a friend tested the Explosive Bp I, with condition crafting nothing has changed, but quality.

Quality crafting though:
No. of successes the same
No. of near misses less
No. of failures higher

TT returns on quantity he is testing now, condition crafting everything is normal.

And after i thought about it, it makes perfect sense. On quality crafting, irrelevant of the bp, 20%-30% of the near misses are around 10% of the tt click. With 2pec tt click, you cannot get 10% for the near miss, so it seems these are being missed out.

Whether you get these lack of near misses, (on quality ONLY), back in tt returns we don't know yet, that remains to be seen, i have a feeling that will be nearly impossible to prove though.

So i apologise, does seem isolated to exp bp I & quality & near miss only though

Rgds

Ace
 
like all crafting, what you get depends on what the balancing manager is doing... at certain times if certain bps are set to drop, they'll drop in a wave.... so you might get 3-4 of the same bp in a short amount of time... It does seem that L bp drops are pretty high with explosive crafting... and it also seems that a lot of calypso based/universal bps are dropping all over the place instead of Planet Partner BPs a lot of times. Maybe Mindark should fix that if they really want Planet Partners to succeed. It's very annoying looting calypso bps all over the other planets/moon, especially if you already have most of the calypso component bps... (extremely annoying if you are trying to do the Monria mission "Discover a Monria Blueprint" since the universal Calypso BPs don't seem to count towards completing that mission... and just having the monria bp in inventory doesn't count towards mission as you have to actually loot it in crafting)
 
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This whole thing makes me confused. I have not read all pages in the thread.

Why would they introduce a crafting that takes over so totally?
Is the "crafting rewards" lowering rewards for other areas of the game as this bp is pumping out big rewards?
Why have there been no actions towards this? Is it due to that all crafters just switched focus and the gains
from crafting are the same as prior to this bp?

Oh well. I hope MA knows what they are doing.

Cheers

Derid
 
Derid said:
Why would they introduce a crafting that takes over so totally?
Click to expand...

i thought alot and i think this:

i guess they thought about how to make crafters cycle more ped..
they thought what makes them stop crafting and this is:
-you get no more stuff at auction or it gets way overpriced if you already bougth all at normal MU
-you have to wait for stuff to sell at auction

additionaly residue is so cheap now that amp crafters can sell for very low mu-> more miners also will buy amps because how to let miners cycle more? why they don't use amps?
-cost too much mu

explosive bps solved those problems..

i think tehy don't care for ingame mining-hunting-crafting cycle or ingame ressource economy anymore...they just want to maximize cycle because more cycle=more profit..(also think was plan behind shrapnel, convert->cycle more hunting without having to waqit for anything to sell)...


as i posted in anotehr thread i have the feeling EU is all about making profit and not about making a cool game anymore...
sure, everything is done for money in the end, but there still are differences..
for example if you stand behind it and it is sth like your "child" which you want to become cool or sth you just do for money, a job which just has to be done..
the devs with the vision and the cool ideas propably left EU long ago..
its all about pressing out the most money...
 
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before we know it we will realise we're not playing an rce anymore if these trends continue...

It's very, very dissapointing...

:(

-kitch
 
Magnus Mag said:
i thought alot and i think this:

i guess they thought about how to make crafters cycle more ped..
they thought what makes them stop crafting and this is:
-you get no more stuff at auction or it gets way overpriced if you already bougth all at normal MU
-you have to wait for stuff to sell at auction

additionaly residue is so cheap now that amp crafters can sell for very low mu-> more miners also will buy amps because how to let miners cycle more? why they don't use amps?
-cost too much mu

explosive bps solved those problems..

i think tehy don't care for ingame mining-hunting-crafting cycle or ingame ressource economy anymore...they just want to maximize cycle because more cycle=more profit..(also think was plan behind shrapnel, convert->cycle more hunting without having to waqit for anything to sell)...
Click to expand...

Magnus, do you play this game also? I see you write about crafting changes, but i dont see you crafting, you are not in top 100 crafters (and it is very easy to get on that list) or any other list on Entropialife.com .

Dont get me wrong i am a trader myself, but reading you posting that much i would expect you to do some mining /crafting or hunting yourself. And to make it even harder for others to see you also made your Entropilife profile hidden.

Explosives bps are just slots machines without bonus games and without free spins (to most boring ones), they dont affect the regular crafting machines (with mutiplier bp drops (freespins on real slots) and rare bp drops (bonus games on real slots).

Only thing that i also find bad ,is that they drop metal residue (as the bp doesnt actually use any metal).

I dont know even why i posted, but i think it is, that you shouldnt bash something that doesnt affect you, you do not craft therefore you do not lose from it. Yeah i get it you are trading bps and regular bps made huge drop in price after these were introduced, but if you use the bps yourself there is no difference.

Try some playing.
But other than that i agree that MA should change the explosive crafting system (remove residue and nothing more)
 
maybe the residue is the only thing keeping it legal ie not gambling as opposed to ped loot
 
whiteknut said:
Magnus, do you play this game also? I see you write about crafting changes, but i dont see you crafting, you are not in top 100 crafters (and it is very easy to get on that list) or any other list on Entropialife.com .

Dont get me wrong i am a trader myself, but reading you posting that much i would expect you to do some mining /crafting or hunting yourself. And to make it even harder for others to see you also made your Entropilife profile hidden.

Explosives bps are just slots machines without bonus games and without free spins (to most boring ones), they dont affect the regular crafting machines (with mutiplier bp drops (freespins on real slots) and rare bp drops (bonus games on real slots).

Only thing that i also find bad ,is that they drop metal residue (as the bp doesnt actually use any metal).

I dont know even why i posted, but i think it is, that you shouldnt bash something that doesnt affect you, you do not craft therefore you do not lose from it. Yeah i get it you are trading bps and regular bps made huge drop in price after these were introduced, but if you use the bps yourself there is no difference.

Try some playing.
But other than that i agree that MA should change the explosive crafting system (remove residue and nothing more)
Click to expand...

i play enough
 
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Magnus Mag said:
i thought alot and i think this:

i guess they thought about how to make crafters cycle more ped..
they thought what makes them stop crafting and this is:
-you get no more stuff at auction or it gets way overpriced if you already bougth all at normal MU
-you have to wait for stuff to sell at auction
Click to expand...

It's also far easier for them to control as it only has two variables, the drop rate of bp's and amount crafted in each attempt. Where as with normal it means regulating all the components used on a bp as well.
 
ah never mind, but your screenshot shows only low level bps that you might buy from anyone, so what about them, and all very low level indeed, maybe all basic filters? what silent ubers? havent seen any. 30 silent ubers would mean you would be on hof boards somewhere.. As no crafter ever gets 30 silent ubers without any real ubers.
 
whiteknut said:
ah never mind, but your screenshot shows only low level bps that you might buy from anyone, so what about them, and all very low level indeed, maybe all basic filters? what silent ubers? havent seen any. 30 silent ubers would mean you would be on hof boards somewhere.. As no crafter ever gets 30 silent ubers without any real ubers.
Click to expand...

sry deleted the OT post from me..

believe me i play alot..
 
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Just need to take nanocubes out of the TT and put them in crafting loot like residue.
 
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