Has EU Gotten Cheaper to Play?

The title says it all. This question is mostly geared towards older players, but do you believe EU has gotten cheaper (fewer depos/longer lasting ped cards), or more expensive to new/mid-level players? I joined EU during vu11 so I can't speak on the matter.

In the past few years MA has announced that their goals have partially been to reduce the "cost to play" this has mostly been accomplished by lowering global thresholds in hunting, reducing decay, and a variety of other measures I'm not thinking about.

Do you believe this has been accomplished or was EU cheaper to play pre-vu10? This question may seem subjective, but try to remain objective when analyzing and before voting.

only markup got lower so it's cheaper for idiots, TT wise the game costs the same if you shoot the same dps..
add the fact of higher lvl guns (cycle more/h) & enhancers, the game costs more to play on avg

It's possible to play a lot cheaper on all levels.

The thing most people are forgetting is that when they level up they buy bigger guns and hunt bigger mobs and actually start playing more expensive.

100 peds and a tt weapon lasts for ages....

Yes, very easy to play without depositing these days with clds, auds, etc. Lowering the UL Sib type stuff to 3% instead of 50% helped too, along with the explosives bp, low level weapons in loots, and a few other things. It's a hell of a lot cheaper to play now than it was a few years back.

Harmony. said:

It's possible to play a lot cheaper on all levels.

The thing most people are forgetting is that when they level up they buy bigger guns and hunt bigger mobs and actually start playing more expensive.

100 peds and a tt weapon lasts for ages....

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but does it last as long as 2-3 years ago, if you didn't TT everything?
try argo/drone for example..

das said:

but does it last as long as 2-3 years ago, if you didn't TT everything?
try argo/drone for example..

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This is really what I'm getting at. CLDs and AUDs are very helpful in mitigating losses, which would help. And I know it's hard for people to remain objective when they skill up and hunt bigger mobs. But does 2k peds last as long on Argos now as it did in 2008 for example?

mastermesh said:

Yes, very easy to play without depositing these days with clds, auds, etc.

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this doesn't make it cheaper to play..
if you have 1000 money in bank and get 1% after one year and drink somethging in bar for 10 money you can't say i was drinking for free...

das said:

but does it last as long as 2-3 years ago, if you didn't TT everything?
try argo/drone for example..

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You're talking about markup that hasn't been there in the time period the OP was talking about.
I did better in the past (when eco and not shooting in the air mattered a lot more) then i do now, but i still do okay. And a lot of people who don't care too much about eco and shooting in the air, do better now too (tt-wise).

Markup-wise you need to figure out what to hunt, and don't be stuck on argos and drones of the past

Well it depends on your interpretation of 3 words.

Play
Cheaper
Costs.

What do you mean by play? For me it means having the most fun and laughs as you can, seeing lots of globals and hofs, and generally having a great time in game. For others it means shooting tt gun on punies, doing anything more than that is considered stupidity.

Cheaper is fascinating word isn't it. Does that mean your initial costs are lower, or game play costs are lower, or your peds last longer over time...lol. Again lots of people will wrap that up in different parcels, and confuse it with the type of play you intend to participate in. For me cheaper and play don't really go together in EU, they are two completely different things, and well managed to be separate.

So I like to focus on "costs". Would you consider multiple ninja spawns, aggressive ava seeking mobs, adjusted attacks depending on personal HP, mobs that activate at longer range, higher HP mobs, longer time to get globals.... as lower costs to manage? Sure weapons are cheaper , availability of items to enable you to "spend" is certainly cheaper and less costs. But what does eco mean, if mob attacks are adjusted. To me it's just a cost that has moved from a weapon to a mob.

So my point.

I've always loved the 'play on words' in EU, MA are supreme master....ha,ha,ha.

To me it's how long peds stay on my card, it's how many runs I'm prepared to undertake, and how strong I am emotionally to stop and not chase globals, which 'might' come on the next run if I carry on. I find management of costs has got more to do with less active play online. Maybe skill pets instead, or do actively to shared rex for example to hopefully even out costs with other hunters.

So the game is cheaper for me, because I have reasonable control over when I stop, not how much fun I might get from my peds. Or more important not doing what I would really like to do. So does that mean play, if you are only participating in an activity to manage costs better, rather than doing what you want to do?

See, it's all meaningless, there're bills to pay and someone has to pay it, what ever left is ours for the taking.

Big smile

Rick

RickEngland said:

Well it depends on your interpretation of 3 words.

Play
Cheaper
Costs.

What do you mean by play? For me it means having the most fun and laughs as you can, seeing lots of globals and hofs, and generally having a great time in game. For others it means shooting tt gun on punies, doing anything more than that is considered stupidity.

Cheaper is fascinating word isn't it. Does that mean your initial costs are lower, or game play costs are lower, or your peds last longer over time...lol. Again lots of people will wrap that up in different parcels, and confuse it with the type of play you intend to participate in. For me cheaper and play don't really go together in EU, they are two completely different things, and well managed to be separate.

So I like to focus on "costs". Would you consider multiple ninja spawns, aggressive ava seeking mobs, adjusted attacks depending on personal HP, mobs that activate at longer range, higher HP mobs, longer time to get globals.... as lower costs to manage? Sure weapons are cheaper , availability of items to enable you to "spend" is certainly cheaper and less costs. But what does eco mean, if mob attacks are adjusted. To me it's just a cost that has moved from a weapon to a mob.

So my point.

I've always loved the 'play on words' in EU, MA are supreme master....ha,ha,ha.

To me it's how long peds stay on my card, it's how many runs I'm prepared to undertake, and how strong I am emotionally to stop and not chase globals, which 'might' come on the next run if I carry on. I find management of costs has got more to do with less active play online. Maybe skill pets instead, or do actively to shared rex for example to hopefully even out costs with other hunters.

So the game is cheaper for me, because I have reasonable control over when I stop, not how much fun I might get from my peds. Or more important not doing what I would really like to do. So does that mean play, if you are only participating in an activity to manage costs better, rather than doing what you want to do?

See, it's all meaningless, there're bills to pay and someone has to pay it, what ever left is ours for the taking.

Big smile

Rick

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I understand the play on words here, and MA is famous for doing the same thing.. But let's assume costs mean ped, and cheaper meaning a 1k pedcard lasts longer now than 6 years ago on the same control-based activity such as hunting young argos...

Oh and play would consist of engaging in one of the three main EU professions.

I'd say cheaper - but still no where near the point of what I would consider something I feel good about. I know this game will never match up with a monthly fee game, but It is still very volatile - which I think the the main problem.
$100 might last a month one time, then last 4 days another time.

I voted cheaper because yes there are way more options than before with CLD, etc stuff someone already mentioned. New comers have a chance to play cheaper IMO. But it is relative.

It can be cheaper to play but it can be incredibly boring by doing so. If people want excitement then it'll most likely be more expensive chasing the thrills.

There's certainly more opportunity to waste ped quickly at higher risk than before. Pre-vu10 the biggest risks were probably mining on CND and CP and crafting.

Personally I wouldn't include lowering the global threshold as a way to reduce cost to play after all it's only an animation. A 10ped loot from a daikiba pre-vu10 and one from now is still only a 10ped loot but with added sparkles.

Rocket192 said:

I understand the play on words here, and MA is famous for doing the same thing.. But let's assume costs mean ped, and cheaper meaning a 1k pedcard lasts longer now than 6 years ago on the same control-based activity such as hunting young argos...

Oh and play would consist of engaging in one of the three main EU professions.

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Argo's. Well I remember hunting argos at old twin many years ago on the hill, and there's was a huge mixed spawn from young to hunter.

I think even with a year or two year old ava and 2A plates at the time, I was still able to take down hunter argo's. It just so happened I wanted to test some argo hunters the other day at Tukar TP naked (no armour)

I didn't stand a chance with Level 49 evade against hunters. Not to mention the agro range was sucked. It was a real shame as it goes as I planned to finish bronze argo challenge. I don't know what level 49 evade is supposed to mean anymore, although I smiled when it was pointed out to me that the mobs still hit as hard as MA want them too, they just miss a little less.

Ohhh ok. I think if you went to see a football game with the latest EU compared with old EU, the goal posts would now stretch from Brighton to London. A long football pitch for sure....lol.

To be honest I don't give a shit, I just shoot a few mobs here and there now, hunt some shared Rex if the community is there, and skill a few pets. There's only so many times your lover beats you around the head with a rolling pin, and you don't look at them the same anymore, but still somehow care about them... a bit anyway

I just login and don't make the rules. Still it can be great fun, when MA wants it to be. And I do love the shared Rex, when it's going totally mad full of people.

Rick

When i compare my logs nowadays to the logs of 2009 i don't see much difference in TT returns. so basically in terms off pure TT return it is the same. What is slightly different is the distribution, the swings are indeed somewhat flattened nowdays.

The good thing today opposed to 6 years ago is the possibility to hunt very small mobs with cheap weaponry. Puny hunting is a safe harbour for broke people, which did not exist in 2009.

BUT the point that changed drastically is the Markup i could gain. Hunting drones, Argos, Mollisk a few years back allowed me small profit or at least to break even most of the times.

Although some markups rose after the introduction of shrapnell the rise was not enough to get the same total result as before. Roughly 60% of my loot is now Ammo or shrapnel. Yes i can sell shrapnell for 100.7 -100.8 % but the total % of Markup in loot is lower for me now.

The biggest loss for me is not the activity, but the Markup of items i paid. And although these are meanwhile several kPED in item devaluation this is something i do not consider bad, because that means gear became more affordable for the masses, which i personally cosider a good point compared to years ago. So for folks who just start EU gear became more affordable and eco UL SIB gear is now available for ,ost people without selling their grandparents or a kidney.

Overall for me personally EU became not cheaper to play. So i voted no, the demand for resources would need to rise to compensate the loss in total Markup. And the Explosive BP was not exactly the step in the direction to raise demand on resources imho.

So if EU is cheaper than some years back greatly depends on the individual playstyle.
Some examples:
-Gambling crafter: Yes, because now possible without paying MU

-Hunter who TTed most of his loot and didn't save their stackables to sell for MU: Yes, the builtin MU of shrapnel and the lesser amounts needed to sell for MU and the better availability of cheap eco gear helped them i guess

-Eco hunter who went out for MU and were successfull in that: No i guess, for many of them EU became harder. It is still possible, but a lot harder thus for most in this group EU become more expensive

-The small hunter who is even nowdays below global threshold: For them EU is easily free to play. Sweating, Swunting, a few AUDs or CLD paired with very cheap eco gear, low amount of turnover for potential loss and Ability to gather markup. Definitly easy to play for free on the lowest level of gameplay now.

So these are examples of different player characteristics who are differently affected by the changes of rebalanceng, Improved Loot(TM), (...) and as usual with changes in any economic environment there are winners and losers in regards of the changes. As it looks now i belong to the second cat at this point of time.

I guess either it is time to adapt or to accept it. I think in my case it will be a mixture of both.

TT average returns are the same as they have always been.

Markup is almost completely gone from the game, compared with pre-VU10.

Easy answer: No

Not cheaper, but generaly flatening loot made ppl lowering greatly their standards. Seems lot of ppl thinking that glob or HoF is something exeptional at the moment. Its crafty thinking course on average you are binded same to be on lost side, just with less excitement than in previous system

I have played for 3 years, the first year I wasted a lot of ped as I did not know what I was doing, the second year I still spent quite a bit as i was building my avatar and equipment up. Over the last year I have depo'd considerably less as I have most of the gear I need and my avatar is around the Level where I am happy I can hunt a variety of mobs including some "risky" ones that may drop a "FAT" one. So my costs to play have dropped as my play style developed. What I have noticed is that the loot swings have settled down, which personally as I play for fun I prefer. Weapons have definitely dropped in price, this was first noticeable on Arkadia with the Piron weapons and later with the MM and ELM weapon drops. I did used to whine about the cost of weapons, I am happy to pay for ammo and armour decay but having to spend over 200 ped on a gun (even when i was much lower skilled) was a considerable expense when playing on a budget. The real change has come with the daily missions. I dont always do them but I complete about 50% of these. This gives me free access to pretty much any gun I want. As I now skill mellee and have a a nice amped SIB UL sword with a few Tier slots available I try to use this to hunt whenever possible. This means I am left with the daily mission weapons for special events such as WOF MM and team hunts. I never run out of weapons these days and I am hoping to be able to use my sword on the lower level maturities of LT in this years migration.

So yeah cost to play for me has dropped but more because I have altered my play style rather than any thing MA has done.

Same return overall tt wise, shrapnel in loot lowered mu i can achieve even with increased mu for some lootables (but thats more way i sell than anything else). Mob loot in hunting generally flattened returns, not as volatile.

Mining though has become more expensive due to lower mark ups on mined resources, knock on effect of expl ammo bp's - less people crafting components for residue due to res mu tanking. Made worse in terms of over supply due to mining amp mark ups hitting all time low (103% for level 5 ).

Crafting i would say 50/50, if have good mu print that take residue then profit, components and other stuff in general loss clks due again to low res mu.

Norbert said:

[...]
Mining though has become more expensive due to lower mark ups on mined resources, knock on effect of expl ammo bp's - less people crafting components for residue due to res mu tanking. Made worse in terms of over supply due to mining amp mark ups hitting all time low (103% for level 5 ).

[...].

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...well, tbh mining just become affordable for some. MU on lvl13 amps from 200% to 130% juast made mining interesting for some type of players. So all depend on type of mining, but lot of ppl find it cheaper than it was before.

10 years ago mining bomb for 1 ped was something expensive itself. Today just due to RL inflation it is not big deal anymore, so we was in need of mining amps in range 100-105% anyway.

shoti said:

...well, tbh mining just become affordable for some. MU on lvl13 amps from 200% to 130% juast made mining interesting for some type of players. So all depend on type of mining, but lot of ppl find it cheaper than it was before.

10 years ago mining bomb for 1 ped was something expensive itself. Today just due to RL inflation it is not big deal anymore, so we was in need of mining amps in range 100-105% anyway.

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Most achieve same % returns tt wise with enough turnover, so actual tt cost/return for most is same.... however mark ups on most resources now so low that may as well buy rather than mine.

Of course for ATH/HOF gamblers has become cheaper in terms of amp mark ups, but for most mining has lost mu and so profitability due to over supply and lower demand.

There are still few resources worth mining for, cave sap, gold ... etc but most resource mark ups are now lower.

Don't worry though i'm sure probe parts (mining shrapnel) will appear soon (jk hopefully).

I've been around since Nov 2010 and don't think it has gotten more expensive or cheaper to play, just my playing style has changed during times which cost more or costs less, all depending on how I play at the time.

Was mentioned it was made cheaper by reducing the global threshold? What??? How does that make it cheaper to play it just made it more appealing to play for lower level hunters as they feel they are accomplishing more, you are not getting any more out of the mobs you just get to see swirlies for that lower amount. If anything it just makes you more addicted to playing and wanting to depo more money just like slot machines in casino. I personally can play weeks without global if I make profit, swirlies could just not exist and I would be fine, but others they play for them only and will loose and loose and grind until they see the hof even though the hof really is not profit so answer they do not make game cheaper to play.

Reducing equipment decay helps lower level pec struggling players it pretty much had no effect on making game cheaper to play.

The loot changes I am still on the fence about not sure if it helps any or not, it makes you hunt stuff your not geared for to get mats so you play sometimes uneco for the markups in hopes to cover it etc.

I would say in all everything is just the same as Nov 2010, the on going changes just make false perceptions to draw your attention away of things just being the same.

I started back in 2003 and back then i could play weeks for 20 bucks after investing in a decent weapon , so i couldnt do that today , 20 bucks now will barely buy a pistol with no ammo.Not to mention everything else you would need to hunt.Spend 20 bucks to go mining it would last a day today.20 bucks crafting today would get you 2 or 3 hours "shrugs" so no its not better.But Entropia is Thee MOST expensive game you can play on the internet today i dont think anything comes close to it? If you listen to the idiots who say its cheep because you can buy CLD,s ? Well i rest my case!!!

Thanks to the webshop and Limited items it has gotten cheaper for new players. Plus, since there are higher average returns new players can play longer on their deposit.

It's not cheaper at all. Mu is disappearing which makes it harder to break even on mining runs and hunting for me. Someone posted something the other day that stuck in my mind. It was something to the effect that "MA has decided that it was too easy for the players to break even". I still love team hunting, makes the peds last a bit longer but where are my big loots ?

Also forgot to add, when did MA change the decay rate of finders and tt extractors for mining ? It seems like they are decaying at twice the rate. I didnt notice this before.

For new players of course but for the old ones I guess its all the same. I never really cycled alot of peds in EU. I cycle through 3k peds per month. So for me I don't really see a difference in returns or cost.

Kristoliquid said:

For new players of course but for the old ones I guess its all the same. I never really cycled alot of peds in EU. I cycle through 3k peds per month. So for me I don't really see a difference in returns or cost.

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what about item value?...

if you were looking to upgrade all your equipment, and instead of cycling for the past year or 2, you saved that money to buy gear... that gear is cheaper recently than it used to be, right?

better gear = lowered cycling expenses / cheaper to play at higher level, with better chance of large returns

I'd say yes, cheaper... depending on how you look at it I suppose

then again, maybe it's all relevant, depending on what you use and what level you play at? who knows?!
(is it better to use small gear vs. small mobs, or big gear vs. big mobs?... or is it even/irrelevant?)

I know one thing for certain... Feffoid Clan Warlord will never ATH!, Feffox Stalker might!

Tycoon said:

what about item value?...

if you were looking to upgrade all your equipment, and instead of cycling for the past year or 2, you saved that money to buy gear... that gear is cheaper recently than it used to be, right?

better gear = lowered cycling expenses / cheaper to play at higher level, with better chance of large returns

I'd say yes, cheaper... depending on how you look at it I suppose

then again, maybe it's all relevant, depending on what you use and what level you play at? who knows?!
(is it better to use small gear vs. small mobs, or big gear vs. big mobs?... or is it even/irrelevant?)

I know one thing for certain... Feffoid Clan Warlord will never ATH!, Feffox Stalker might!

Click to expand...

Gear is alot cheaper for sure, which makes it more fun on a certain level. And all those animal armors that became (L), anyone now can have fun earlier in their process of becoming better. Some unl stuff is still too high mu Though, but you are absolutly right for sure. soooo many mobs now in eu. Its normal that they had to kinda seperate all those peds and loots to try and make eveybody happy.

I think EU has more cheaper alternatives to hunt (Punies), craft (EP 1) and mine (TT Finder).

I have played in 2006 - 2008, took a very long break and came back late 2014.

If you hunt Atrox I dont think it got any cheaper, might even be a lil more expensive.

However, there are cheaper alternatives if you want to play for a little cheaper, however, its not as fun.

Its just my take on it.

Cheaper in terms of "Barrier to Entry" ... Yes many times over with low level (L) items like Lizzy mentioned alongside missions, puny mobs, repair skilling, healing services, shared loot creatures the list goes on, even as Rick mentioned he likes to skill his pet for a slower pace of play and he isn't the only one. We also have (L) versions of the previously unreachable UL armours for the average joe alongside high dps (L) weapons with reasonable ECO.

However it has got more expensive if you like the high end gameplay or are looking for top end ingame investment, although with this comes bigger potential for profits but i think if your smart enough to have 10k usd to deposit into a game you are smart enough to make that money work for you and create some form of profit.

In my eyes is just a broader spectrum of gameplay and it can only be good.

Puny mobs, SIB and mission rewards.

Yes, it has gotten cheaper to play.

All the while MA also added ways of playing on a more expensive level. But that's not the point. No one is forced to play at that level. "High end" back in the days was pretty much killing atrox old alphas (used to be toughest one) and araneatrox. That's hardly high end today, and keep in mind an atrox stalker today is way stronger than an old alpha from way back.