cost per killing mob

Hi guys

there was some formula i forgot that tells you cost of killing mob dunno what it was

Maybe someone knows and input some pls

Thx
Tees

Hi,


I don't know the exact formula but you can do it like this, i think:

x = mob's health;
y = dmg/pec weapon (around 2.xx-3.xx)
z = pecs to kill or ped cost per mob
L = regen rate of the mob (probably %/time)

(x*L)/y = z


Example: let's take ambulimax young from entropedia data (http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=MobLevel&id=8 and a weapon that does 3dmg/pec and unknown rate of regen(in our example it will be 1, but that is if you kill it fast and it will not regenerate:

(1010*1) / 3 = 336.66(6) pecs to kill a mob, or 3.36 ped

so in short

HP of mob / dmg.pec = peds to kill a mob?

im working with prots here so they dont regen much

Yep, that's how i see it. And the % is either of the whole HP or the remaining, or a random in between % of the whole or the remaining, meaning fixed % or random % from whole HP or remaining HP.

TeesMaarKhan said:

so in short

HP of mob / dmg.pec = peds to kill a mob?

im working with prots here so they dont regen much

Click to expand...

They regen, so for Proteron Young - 2900 HP*(regen, based on time to kill, I think about 10%, so 1.1)/2.9 (Base value for most weapons with amp) = 2900x1,1/2,9=1100 PEC = 11 PED. Regen might be decreased to value 1 for teams (with 200-250 DPS)

Slightly different formula but roughly the same results. and a more detailed explanation.

Well Danny, you're close with your formula, but here's the one I got told by a few friends of mine, (and i filled in the last part to give a real close true approximation of what the amount per kill is..

The formula that states that

(x*L)/y = z

is close but L is in fact not an arbitrarty number but a fxed value and this is that missing part that you said..

L = regen rate of the mob (probably 30%/time)

so what does this break down to.. here's the actual formula that I came up with:

x = total heatl of the mob
y = Stamina (Which is divided by 10..)
L = the regen rate (which the fixed value is 30)
z = Total cost for a mob kill. (Raw)

and there is one more variable that i will fill in here in a moment that gives you the true value:

x /10 = y/L= Z (Raw)

but wait that's the raw value, the approximate amount of ped you need for a kill..

so then what's the true value..

This is where we go and we refer to our Hit ability (HA) on our guns..

Now when we start off skilling on a gun (Even an opalo or any UL gun we see that value of 0.0/10 or let's say x.x/10.0. well.. what does this mean..

Well x.x isn't a % rate of hit but rather a linear value that is based on the gun when you initially pick it up..
and that base rate is 80%

So 80+0.0 = 80% hit rate..

But rather than moving up even exponentially, the HA moves up Linerally which means its the base rate + the HA

So when maxed the gun is 10.0 out of 10.. YOu don't hit 100% of the time as most people believe but rather.. 90% of the time (There's that 90% figure that MA talks about.. )

so there is a 10% chance you will miss when you shoot a mob..

Now let's plut in the raw data first..

(x/10)=y/L= z

so let's take a nice big animal like say an Amubu Young (Again refer to entropedia for the heatl data on any creature..

For an ambu young it's 990 HP

so plugging this into the formula we get the following..

990/10=y/L = z (Raw value)

or

990/10=99 / L = z
since we know that L is 30.. we plut it in this way..

99/30 = 3.30 ped per ki (Raw)

but then... We do have to factor in that miss factor and considering that we don't hit 100% but in stead 90% of the time, the actual miss value is going to be 10% of z or .1

so what does this boil down to?

well let's go back to our ambu young example..

990/10= 99/ 30 = 3.30 ped. (Raw) + (3.30*.1)

thgis translates to

990/10=99/30 = 3.30 ped+ (3.30 *.1)
or

3.30 ped + .33 pec or 3.63 ped per kill (True actual cost)

But then let's throw into the mix the Dmg / Sec (that 2.xxx to 3.xxx value)

this gives you the actual


and it's that True 3.63 ped that would be the value..

Now then, let's plug that into the dmg/second and other variables that come into play..

When you plug that in it gives you a rough idea on how many shots it should take..
(Again not counting for the miss factor)

but let's say that we're maxed out we hit 90% of the time, well what does this say for damage per shot? Not a lot really cause that Dmg/pec value is based on the HA and the CHA ..

but CHA (or creitcal hit ability is the change of the fact that you'll score a crirical hit) and what does this break down to? Well.. again we have a base of 80% and again we use the linear value so 80 + 10 on a maxed gun is 90%

So again what does this mean?

well 90%(*.9) gives you the CHA.. which really is 81% or so we think..)

we divide this by 10, and we really get the true value of a critical hit

so 81%/10 = 8.1 % (The true value of critical hit rte when the gun is maxed (Damage wise)

So for say every 100 shots you put in you will hit 90% of the time, however on average you will get an 8.1% chance to do critical damage (which can be up to twice the value on the gun.. So say you're using an opalo and it does 4-8 HP that means the full Potential of a critical can be 16 HP if you do hit that 9.1% of the time)

So let's go back to that value of the dmg/pec....

it's always never above 3.xxx (Probably the top cap is 3.999)


so how many shots does it take.?

Well one way to look at that is to take the value we know 3.63
and divide it by the cost per pec of each shot (So here you're looking at ammo burn. )

Let's say ont hat gun you're using to kill the ambu, it has an ammo burn of say 18 pec..

So how many shots?

3.63/.18 = total number of shots you should be taking..

so

3.63/.18 = 20.1666 shots So let's say 20 rounded off..

Now then let's plug in the value that We know..

.18 x 20 = 3.60 ped..

Now remember 8.1% of the time you might get that Critical and that will do double damage..

So you could in thoery hit it and kill it in 19 shots..

but then we look at The Miss factor (The one where you miss 10% of the time)

Each miss adds to the total cost at the end..

So ergo, each evade that the creatue gets is really that annoying "Miss" (

so if ou can kill aan ambu young say in 20 hits, or less you're doing good, if it takes more than say 21 then you aren't really playing I feel economically..)

(and I've tested this out with my friends and the values I gave out here are pretty darn close.. But it's the skill of the player that determins the final number of shots..

and then we come down to the final part.. the loot itself..

Now in order to come down to this, the entire thing boils down to how much loot should we get out of the creature if were we rto kill it,

This comes down to 3.53 ped right? Well, not quite.. cause MA gives us on average a 90% return rate..

So how much loot should bwe theoretically get?

it's 3.63*.9 (90%)
or

3.267 ped.. or 3.27 ped..

Now this makes a bit more sense on the grounds that when you look at the items and total them up, if you are getting less than that, odds are you might as well be hunting something else..

but take those values and plug them into any mob.. and then get back to me, and let's see whether I'm right or danny is.. after all I'm curious to see if one or the other forumla is truly correct, or is this some sort of logarithm that is based also on the players skill (Which some players claim it is..

So then, let the battle of the forumlas begin!

Benjamin Ben Coyote
a.k.a. "The Blind Sniper.

^ this is genius

i concur with above

I just kill 1-10, stop examine cost and extrapulate.....

I could make a complex formula but tbh quicker just to dip feet and check with weap set ups, armour changes.

BenCoyote said:

So then, let the battle of the forumlas begin!

Click to expand...

Add an increase chance that the 1st shot to a mob will be a miss, and also that the last shot on an almost dead mob will be not only overkill, but also a critical hit

BenCoyote said:

so

3.63/.18 = 20.1666 shots So let's say 20 rounded off..

Click to expand...

I think it makes more sense to round up, meaning 20.1666 will be 21 shots.
0.1666 has to be rounded to 1 full shot, at least this is how i see it.
Regards,
III Dusk MMM

Norbert said:

I just kill 1-10, stop examine cost and extrapulate.....

I could make a complex formula but tbh quicker just to dip feet and check with weap set ups, armour changes.

Click to expand...

I am with you, the cost/mob depends on just too many things, including a) mob HP, b) mob regeneration, c) player's HP, d) player's Evade, e) mob attack rate, f) mob max. dmg, g) player's attack rate, h) player's max. dmg, i) player's armour, j) player's FAP, k) player's time-to-get-back-to-the-mob-after-being-killed, l) player's finisher, m) player's tagger, n) rate between mob maturities.

You could make a very rough estimation of say, {mob_HP (of middle maturity)} / {325} = Cost in PEDs. At least that works for me against Hadraada. Young = 190HP, Mature = 280HP, Old = 370HP. 280/325 = 0,862PED. My average is 0,878PED after almost 10k killed.
To be on the save side (I have no armour; almost never die; only fap between mobs) you can lower the factor 325 to 300 or even 275. But really, in the end it is just guesswork and the only way to know for sure is to kill and calculate the average. You need a large population though, 10 kills won't work I am afraid.

Ardorj said:

I am with you, the cost/mob depends on just too many things, including a) mob HP, b) mob regeneration, c) player's HP, d) player's Evade, e) mob attack rate, f) mob max. dmg, g) player's attack rate, h) player's max. dmg, i) player's armour, j) player's FAP, k) player's time-to-get-back-to-the-mob-after-being-killed, l) player's finisher, m) player's tagger, n) rate between mob maturities.

Click to expand...

Don't forget, your ability with the weapon is nerf'd if you punch above your weight, so you would need to factor in mob characteristics vs. player skills vs. players ability with tool.

Hi Ben and others,

I understand your point of view and it might be possible, but we can't know for sure until we see it . Although i tried to keep it simple, considering there are lots of numbers everywhere, i think is very easy to get trapped in adding lots of various variables to the mix of just calculating how much cost a mob to kill. Killing it and looting it are two different mechanics. I want to think as how would i do it if i was to implement a similar system, though i'm not a researcher on MMO hunt mechanics on mobs, nor expert, neither did implement any in my life, yet.

I just made my formula by killing it once, with one shot, as what i think it should be. The loot theories, the 90%, the HA's are all part of the dynamic part of loot(not personal loot pool) and character's skills to use any particular set of weapons and i don't think they have anything to do with it(cost to kill a mob) other than what i said in first post. But i might be wrong .