Honest answer on the direction of EU

Kitch · Feb 23, 2015

Dear MA,

Over the last few years (I joined in 2012) many of the changes you have made to the game have left me doing this > :scratch2:

The premise of the game as far as I am aware has allways been thus: You invest in your avatar so you can potentially take advantage of economic opportunities which arise leading you to possibly benefit financially from the RCE element of the game.

While I don't deny that this is still somewhat the case...

It is clear that in the past the idea for the economy was that people would be required to gather ingredients (hunting/mining) which they could then sell on to crafters who would then... You know :yup:

Now what many people have noticed is a tendancy to make changes which lead to a lowering of markup for these ingredients, a possible meandering away from the original model... As people visit TT more and more...

Add to that some new content like Explosive BP's which encourage most of the "money" to skip out completely the miners/hunters for example, thus making the economy player v MA, rather than player v player, Plus ofcourse, hunting gear is looted, not crafted (bad, bad Mindark)...

Then lots of non tradeable items coming into the game, plus shrapnel(possibly a well intentioned attempt to limit the amount of random loot types) and some carebear moves like making missed shots not cost anything.

It seems very clear looking at the above that there is a culture or policy in Mindark that they are moving away from such ideals as "sandbox", open ended gameplay and most important RCE... :yup:

What I would like is a clear honest answer as to what direction the platform is headed as clearly now there may be some good viable RCE games popping up in the near future and it's only fair to be honest and forward with your players as to what you plan to do with your product, so that we can plan our future gaming priorities accordingly :yup:

-kitch

Kitch · Feb 23, 2015

reserved....................

Supajosh · Feb 23, 2015

A very well constructed post , which I'm sure we all want the answers too. + rep

K_rupT · Feb 23, 2015

Sadly , Mindark are not obliged and i doubt will even answer this question

if anything it will be a Vague response , kinda like World politicians

thoreau · Feb 23, 2015

Kitch said:
Dear MA,

Over the last few years (I joined in 2012) many of the changes you have made to the game have left me doing this >

The premise of the game as far as I am aware has allways been thus: You invest in your avatar so you can potentially take advantage of economic opportunities which arise leading you to possibly benefit financially from the RCE element of the game.

While I don't deny that this is still somewhat the case...

It is clear that in the past the idea for the economy was that people would be required to gather ingredients (hunting/mining) which they could then sell on to crafters who would then... You know

Now what many people have noticed is a tendancy to make changes which lead to a lowering of markup for these ingredients, a possible meandering away from the original model... As people visit TT more and more...

Add to that some new content like Explosive BP's which encourage most of the "money" to skip out completely the miners/hunters for example, thus making the economy player v MA, rather than player v player, Plus ofcourse, hunting gear is looted, not crafted (bad, bad Mindark)...

Then lots of non tradeable items coming into the game, plus shrapnel(possibly a well intentioned attempt to limit the amount of random loot types) and some carebear moves like making missed shots not cost anything.

It seems very clear looking at the above that there is a culture or policy in Mindark that they are moving away from such ideals as "sandbox", open ended gameplay and most important RCE...

What I would like is a clear honest answer as to what direction the platform is headed as clearly now there may be some good viable RCE games popping up in the near future and it's only fair to be honest and forward with your players as to what you plan to do with your product, so that we can plan our future gaming priorities accordingly

-kitch

Generally speaking, all of the above has made the game better for those who like to play. For those who like to profit maybe not.

Norbert · Feb 23, 2015

thoreau said:
Generally speaking, all of the above has made the game better for those who like to play. For those who like to profit maybe not.

If this was WoW or Berty penguin and friends then i would agree, but EU is an RCE and so without profit potential loses the only differential between itself and other much cheaper and more diverse games out there.

Diluting the economy in the way expl ammo bp has is non-sensical, it reduces demand for resources as all you need now is a bp and the tt - could be done with an app. While enhancers/amps were first stage using tt ingredients (probes/enhancer components) they at least use some collected resources to complete the mix, you only have to look at hof list since introduction of 20 ped per clk insta hof to see the unbalance.

Now yes i know most lose on expl ammo bp's, but the point is more a slowdown in markets that support crafting - and the obvious decline of residue mu. Now low res price at first was a blessing to many as they took advantage to bridge gap between item mu and residue mu drop, but now look at mining amps for instance 102.5% for level 5 (further adding to oversupply of not needed resources).

Also why on earth introduce shrapnel to "increase hunting mark ups", then dump all over that with expl ammo prints unless ofc mining shrapnel is in the pipeline.... to "help mining mark ups"..

Why on earth didn't expl ammo bp use shrapnel and lyst for instance? just seems odd. Way it is now doesn't stimulate economy, tt-craft-tt-craft and yes people will say 100.30% on res lol but i bet as time goes on more and more gets tt'd.

Also Arkadia for instance had a crafting event to i guess stimulate their resource economy, Exp ammo bp craps from a great height on attempts Ark and other planets make for any future craft event.

Then ofc we have non tradeable items, in an rce.... lol, just why? I guess is to preserve already existing item mu's but again goes against principle of a "free" economy. Whether untradable or not will reduce demand for similiar items as people will get from gold starter pack/mission anyway and so reduce demand for tradeable items of same band.

At end of day adapt or quit, but seems destroys concept of EU.

Would be nice for someone to come here and explain reasoning behind all changes.

LuckerStar · Feb 23, 2015

With the shrapnel, all general materials grew market value and the explosive training blueprints increase demand of it, because of the new army of manufacturers (yes! Not many, if any, gonna stay on explosives 4ever) So I have no idea why you decided to whine right after such genial economic butt-kick. Btw, support weapons received eco boost, generaly... so, YEAH! Whats your problem? What exactly is worse for you now then it was be4 ??

Norbert · Feb 23, 2015

LuckerStar said:
With the shrapnel, all general materials grew market value and the explosive training blueprints increase demand of it, because of the new army of manufacturers (yes! Not many, if any, gonna stay on explosives 4ever) So I have no idea why you decided to whine right after such genial economic butt-kick. Btw, support weapons received eco boost, generaly... so, YEAH! Whats your problem? What exactly is worse for you now then it was be4 ??

Your "army of manufacturers" were already there, supported by mothership repair skilling.

An economy needs to flow to be successful, tt-craft-tt does nothing to support economy (google demand).

Yes general materials gains mu slightly after shrapnel changes, some more than others. Before change many crafted through oils, now not so many so overall has shrapnel increased economic activity? (hunt/craft/sell as opposed to hunt/sell and less oils in economy). shrapnel i can live with though, but made same mark up on most things then as i do now (but thats more how i sell).

Finally this isn't a whine, i can deal with whatever happens, if not i can always take the door out. It's a mature discussion about the current state of things (google debate).

If you going to contribute at least substantiate what you type, your comments are unsupported and could have come from a 10 year old, finally CAPS do not make your post any better.

Kitch · Feb 23, 2015

LuckerStar said:
With the shrapnel, all general materials grew market value and the explosive training blueprints increase demand of it, because of the new army of manufacturers (yes! Not many, if any, gonna stay on explosives 4ever) So I have no idea why you decided to whine right after such genial economic butt-kick. Btw, support weapons received eco boost, generaly... so, YEAH! Whats your problem? What exactly is worse for you now then it was be4 ??

Well this "army" of crafters are not that relevant to this because the real "money" here and the economy is resting on the shoulders of the few famous big crafters who everyone knows.

So example: I try to sell a big stack on auction, a year or two ago, it would be bought by one of about 5 or 6 guys, every time

Now: it won't be bought at all or for much lower MU...

Plus all the other reasons I put in my post..

Edit: What are you a sweater or something? Do you visit the AH at all? :scratch2:

Haven't noticed anything??

What if you had 20k (30k w/ MU) worth of resources, then they make this fuktard change, then you stack is wortth 20k??? It's fucking disastrous... Think of people with these type of investments too.

Look, dont argue symantics, I don't want to play a game where I just TT loot, I only want to play a game where things have value and actual purpose. Thats the bottom line.

atomicstorm · Feb 23, 2015

Well.. I've had to stop crafting amps and such since the change. People are less inclined to amp when mu on materials are next to none.

This truly was a disaserious blueprint.

If it had used shrapnel and fragments, that would have made things so much better.

LuckerStar · Feb 23, 2015

Which materials exactly droped mu because of shrapnel or tt self supported skilling bps? I cant see any drop on amps, really. Which exactly?

And for the repairing, well as I know it was mainly about disciple graduation and the only manufacturing skills earned there is engineering (correct?) so skilling on real manufacturing kinda gives more option and sense to continue manufacturing after some leveling. But hey, it doesnt really matter... what matters is that manufacturing is the most important aspect of stable economy and "the more the better" so I see what MA tried to do here and imo its genial and works. Specialy for the low level materials demand supported mostly by new players, it keeps them in the game! Why not?! Really, I dont see anything bad only better and better. This is where the game is heading

And hey, relax! I did not mean any harm (lol)

Magnus Mag · Feb 23, 2015

LuckerStar said:
Which materials exactly droped mu because of shrapnel or tt self supported skilling bps? I cant see any drop on amps, really. Which exactly?

And for the repairing, well as I know it was mainly about disciple graduation and the only manufacturing skills earned there is engineering (correct?) so skilling on real manufacturing kinda gives more option and sense to continue manufacturing after some leveling. But hey, it doesnt really matter... what matters is that manufacturing is the most important aspect of stable economy and "the more the better" so I see what MA tried to do here and imo its genial and works. Specialy for the low level materials demand supported mostly by new players, it keeps them in the game! Why not?! Really, I dont see anything bad only better and better. This is where the game is heading

And hey, relax! I did not mean any harm (lol)

look at blaus, narc, duru, lyst perhaps? (etcetc)
look at level 5 amps for 102% perhaps? (etcetc)

"what matters is that manufacturing is the most important aspect of stable economy"
sure, esepecially when 90% of the crafting cycle is done with tt materials giving resi output..

"Which materials exactly droped mu because of shrapnel or tt self supported skilling bps? I cant see any drop on amps, really. Which exactly?"
if you really seriously asking this then you disqualified yourself from discussion...

Haruto Rat · Feb 23, 2015

LuckerStar said:
And for the repairing, well as I know it was mainly about disciple graduation and the only manufacturing skills earned there is engineering (correct?) so skilling on real manufacturing kinda gives more option and sense to continue manufacturing after some leveling.

Wrong.
Engineering / Blueprint Comprehension (all engineering professions)
Vehicle Technology (Vehicle Engineer)
Mechanics (Mechanical Engineer)
Electronics (Electronics Engineer)
+ some Intelligence gains

Although MS repairing is often discussed at sweating circles as a way to "graduate quickly" (guess that's where you picked up the idea), 90+% of people who do repairing have graduated looong ago.

Norbert · Feb 23, 2015

LuckerStar said:
Which materials exactly droped mu because of shrapnel or tt self supported skilling bps? I cant see any drop on amps, really. Which exactly?

And for the repairing, well as I know it was mainly about disciple graduation and the only manufacturing skills earned there is engineering (correct?) so skilling on real manufacturing kinda gives more option and sense to continue manufacturing after some leveling. But hey, it doesnt really matter... what matters is that manufacturing is the most important aspect of stable economy and "the more the better" so I see what MA tried to do here and imo its genial and works. Specialy for the low level materials demand supported mostly by new players, it keeps them in the game! Why not?! Really, I dont see anything bad only better and better. This is where the game is heading

And hey, relax! I did not mean any harm (lol)

Shrapnel increased mark up on hunting loot by throttling supply, so yes for the mark up left has increased.

As for expl ammo bp, before bp people would craft components, or whatever to build stash of residue which in turn was bought from miners mainly but also hunters (plastic ruds for example). So mark up for some resources has been eroded due to less clking on bp's requiring collected mats to gain. Now with lower expl ammo bp's not much of an issue (2 pec, 20pec, per clk), issue is higher ones that are 2 ped and 20 ped per clk - thus flooding game with oversupply of residue.

The residue produced through expl ammo (high cost per clk) bp's tanked residue mark ups - making mining amps now lowest in game history. Now at first you would think thats cool, less cost to mine with amps but couple increased mining resource supply (amped mining) with lower demand for those resources ..... kills mining mark ups.

I see to what Ma trying to do, but is more knock on effects of resources from tt for materials, why bother crafting other stuff and buying from players - which completes the economic cycle. The explosive ammo bp's use nanocubes available from trade terminal - which in turn does nothing to support hunters/miners and what they collect - that is main issue that i see.

There is no right and wrong, is just effects of changes to game - and discussion is about if those changes to game are good in long term.

No worries man, just your post seemed very reactionary without supporting what you were trying to put accross. I can come accross as rather sharp in replies, but is living with a law grad that does it

.

Hope explains some of concerns some see, without chance of profit people will slow down. Like with atomic storm who said he has stopped amp crafting - which in turn is less resources bought from us all.

Welcome to EU

, stuff like this gets people polarized.

All the best and gl man

LuckerStar · Feb 23, 2015

Ok well repairing does not give chance to profit and a lot less skills. The lv5 amps im not awared of I admit but last time I checked lv7 and 13 are the same. The ore drop I did noticed but imo its temporary and its happening time to time (u know, the old fashion supply-demand thing

) and yes, it is connected to the explo bp but that is little price to pay (specialy cuz its temporary side effects, the explosive madness will eventualy fade) comparing the rest as a whole economic circle

I disqualify myself from the discusion as I have no desire being attacked by aggresive whiners!

Yes, I said it. Goodbye my friends

dr3w · Feb 23, 2015

LuckerStar said:
Which materials exactly droped mu because of shrapnel or tt self supported skilling bps? I cant see any drop on amps, really. Which exactly?

Nothing, of course. Everything is fine.

Metal Residue went from 110% to 100.03%
Narc from 120% to 110%
Blau from 114% to 104%
Niks from 125% to 113%

Just small part of resources. Care to open fucking graphs and check MU of amps during last year by yourself?

Just because your "self supported" "skilling" blueprint creates from fucking nanocubes shitloads of Metal Residue and your stupid skills, which not needed anyway.

Darling, if MA would like to create "self supported" "skilling" blueprint - they would create BP which producing nanocubes, hoffing by nanocubes and using nanocubes, meanwhile getting "nanocube manufacturing" skills, you know?

Magnus Mag · Feb 23, 2015

LuckerStar said:
Ok well repairing does not give chance to profit and a lot less skills. The lv5 amps im not awared of I admit but last time I checked lv7 and 13 are the same. The ore drop I did noticed but imo its temporary and its happening time to time (u know, the old fashion supply-demand thing ) and yes, it is connected to the explo bp but that is little price to pay (specialy cuz its temporary side effects, the explosive madness will eventualy fade) comparing the rest as a whole economic circle

I disqualify myself from the discusion as I have no desire being attacked by aggresive whiners! Yes, I said it. Goodbye my friends

ppl assume that those writing concerend posts about expl are "whiners not getting profit"..thats not the case..i think we are just worried about the way the game works..we want RCE and not casino..

sure there always was fluctuation in prizes, lows and highs..but alot of stuff is at the very very bottom atm...

LuckerStar · Feb 23, 2015

Ah, well yes this is right. Metal residue will not recover, atleast not to the same. But hey, idk... everything has two sides. Atleast there will be more residue, generaly

Everything will be ok. Meanwhile, well... dont craft lv5 amps?

Sorry boys I just had to said it

Buck Wyld · Feb 23, 2015

speaking from the perspective of a player that is primarily a crafter I have to say these changes and others that preceded them are going to ruin the game

sure its may SEEM great that ores/mats are cheaper but it really isn't the case.

the explosives bps have created more problems than they fixed for sure
residue was a way for crafters to make up for sharp losses
markups on products produced have fallen to the point that there is no point clicking even with lower prices on mats

there have also been some other horrible changes for crafters in the past that the op might not even be aware of.
A few examples for me personally (and i'm sure others as well);

APIS - a staple gun for many old mid level players, i bought an unl bp to craft this gun and supplied many hunters from time to time, a few months after buying this hard to find bp MA decided to drop 20 or 30 more of them and tanked not only the price of the bp but the price of apis as well, then they changed the drop of ATAU's to the point that it was a total waste of time to click this gun, and finally they basically made this gun obsolete.

AMPS- many of you also have suffered from the transition from oa and ma to the level series, bps that were purchased for fairly high prices were rendered almost worthless due to the conversion, add to the fact that the mark ups on the products themselves dropped due to saturation of the market

I know these examples might be seen as whining or failure to adapt to the ever changing game but where is the incentive to increase skills, craft products, and deposit to fund such endeavors if MA pulls the rug out from our investments every 6 months

buck

Harmony. · Feb 23, 2015

atomicstorm said:
People are less inclined to amp when mu on materials are next to none.

Actually looking at the sales graphs from auction on popular amps like the level 5 and 7 amps you can clearly see an increase in sales since the markup on them started dropping.

thoreau · Feb 23, 2015

Norbert said:
If this was WoW or Berty penguin and friends then i would agree, but EU is an RCE and so without profit potential loses the only differential between itself and other much cheaper and more diverse games out there.

What does it mean to be a Real Cash Economy?

The only workable definition I can figure out is that in Entropia you can take money out of the game. That is the defining feature of a RCE.

Lots of a other games allow you to buy in and you can profit and loss in those games too. But you can't take out your profits.

So until the withdraw button is removed its still a RCE. A few non-tradeable items doesn't change that.

m0rr0w2 · Feb 23, 2015

Reply

Buck Wyld said:
speaking from the perspective of a player that is primarily a crafter I have to say these changes and others that preceded them are going to ruin the game

sure its may SEEM great that ores/mats are cheaper but it really isn't the case.

the explosives bps have created more problems than they fixed for sure
residue was a way for crafters to make up for sharp losses
markups on products produced have fallen to the point that there is no point clicking even with lower prices on mats

there have also been some other horrible changes for crafters in the past that the op might not even be aware of.
A few examples for me personally (and i'm sure others as well);

APIS - a staple gun for many old mid level players, i bought an unl bp to craft this gun and supplied many hunters from time to time, a few months after buying this hard to find bp MA decided to drop 20 or 30 more of them and tanked not only the price of the bp but the price of apis as well, then they changed the drop of ATAU's to the point that it was a total waste of time to click this gun, and finally they basically made this gun obsolete.

AMPS- many of you also have suffered from the transition from oa and ma to the level series, bps that were purchased for fairly high prices were rendered almost worthless due to the conversion, add to the fact that the mark ups on the products themselves dropped due to saturation of the market

I know these examples might be seen as whining or failure to adapt to the ever changing game but where is the incentive to increase skills, craft products, and deposit to fund such endeavors if MA pulls the rug out from our investments every 6 months

buck

I'm new to crafting and couldn't agree more with this statement. Talking to people who craft these explosives I would say it's basically just the same as sitting at a slot machine. No Mu in and no Mu out. People with gambling problems are even more likely to blow money they don't have because MA has become greedy. I seriously think MA is heading in a bad bad direction. Maybe I'm wrong what do I know but I think they are riding on a thin line now where they could get in trouble for this. It's like your going to TT buying chips and sitting down to pull the slots. What's different? Even if there is a random generator and a guaranteed payback % then it's exactly the same now as a slot machine at a casino.

atomicstorm · Feb 23, 2015

Harmony. said:
Actually looking at the sales graphs from auction on popular amps like the level 5 and 7 amps you can clearly see an increase in sales since the markup on them started dropping.

I don't refer to lvl 5 and 7 which are not profitable to click for some time.. and still arent.

I'm referring to the higher sort. I don't consider lvl 5 and 7 big amping. Every miner should use lvl5s at a minimum with them being practically TT at least until ores and such drop even further due to over mining .. which isn't good for those with a UL amp. Let's not forget those folks.

Norbert · Feb 23, 2015

thoreau said:
What does it mean to be a Real Cash Economy?

The only workable definition I can figure out is that in Entropia you can take money out of the game. That is the defining feature of a RCE.

Lots of a other games allow you to buy in and you can profit and loss in those games too. But you can't take out your profits.

So until the withdraw button is removed its still a RCE. A few non-tradeable items doesn't change that.

To be honest non-trade-able stuff isn't a huge issue for me, i was just saying it seems odd in a game that is based on real money, item values have tt associated with them that some is not tradeable. Just seems against the main principle of PE now EU, but i can live with them and have some myself (gold starter pack, few bits of viceroy).

The other stuff i posted (which you didn't quote...)..

Diluting the economy in the way expl ammo bp has is non-sensical, it reduces demand for resources as all you need now is a bp and the tt - could be done with an app. While enhancers/amps were first stage using tt ingredients (probes/enhancer components) they at least use some collected resources to complete the mix, you only have to look at hof list since introduction of 20 ped per clk insta hof to see the unbalance.

Now yes i know most lose on expl ammo bp's, but the point is more a slowdown in markets that support crafting - and the obvious decline of residue mu. Now low res price at first was a blessing to many as they took advantage to bridge gap between item mu and residue mu drop, but now look at mining amps for instance 102.5% for level 5 (further adding to oversupply of not needed resources).

Also why on earth introduce shrapnel to "increase hunting mark ups", then dump all over that with expl ammo prints unless ofc mining shrapnel is in the pipeline.... to "help mining mark ups"..

Why on earth didn't expl ammo bp use shrapnel and lyst for instance? just seems odd. Way it is now doesn't stimulate economy, tt-craft-tt-craft and yes people will say 100.30% on res lol but i bet as time goes on more and more gets tt'd.

Also Arkadia for instance had a crafting event to i guess stimulate their resource economy, Exp ammo bp craps from a great height on attempts Ark and other planets make for any future craft event.

Then ofc we have non tradeable items, in an rce.... lol, just why? I guess is to preserve already existing item mu's but again goes against principle of a "free" economy. Whether untradable or not will reduce demand for similiar items as people will get from gold starter pack/mission anyway and so reduce demand for tradeable items of same band.

At end of day adapt or quit, but seems destroys concept of EU.

Would be nice for someone to come here and explain reasoning behind all changes.

...about affects of economy affected by changes though does bother me, but at end of day "it is what it is" and up to Ma to tweak or not. Seems you just read start and end and didn't bother with the rest.

For me is simple, if i only see loss potential i play less, don't deposit, change activities, and play other stuff.

Anyway said my piece

Dibbler out

billairboy · Feb 23, 2015

Lower MU in general is not necessary a bad thing, because too high MU makes a lot of things too expansive or uneconomically to use. But I feel that we have a lot of "unbalance" in the markup right now. Many resources with zero or close to zero markup, and some resources that have a way too high markup, for example Pyrite and some other ores and enmatters. I know that in the end we as players should "balance" the MU, based on supply and demand, when things get to expansive, but I feel that in many cases it don't work that great.

I wish MA could make more effort on regulation markup on some resources and increase the supply when the markup is a bit too high for a long period of time and at the same time decrease it a bit if the markup is close too zero for a long time. A bit of intervention and regulation and balancing is good for the game I think.

Laurent · Feb 23, 2015

Here i see it like this :

Purpose of schrapnel : to decrease the tt amount of the loot with markup. People hunting more as well. Result : now for a 200 peds hunt, after burning the schrapnel, you got 50 peds. Yeahh :bs:

Purpose of nanocubes bps : to let people gamble with something from tt, thus decreasing the markup of ores/enmatters. Yeahh :bs:

But let them work on Compet if we want this before Christmas ( might be the reason why they leave Christmas tree in Twin), and yeahh you know what Compet is.. Little hogglo will eat all the other mobs. Yeahh :bs:

So the direction MA is heading...in the wall, and there won't be trapped mobs or maybe trapped players..

SAD

m0rr0w2 · Feb 23, 2015

Reply

Laurent said:
Here i see it like this :

Purpose of schrapnel : to decrease the tt amount of the loot with markup. People hunting more as well. Result : now for a 200 peds hunt, after burning the schrapnel, you got 50 peds. Yeahh

Purpose of nanocubes bps : to let people gamble with something from tt, thus decreasing the markup of ores/enmatters. Yeahh

But let them work on Compet if we want this before Christmas ( might be the reason why they leave Christmas tree in Twin), and yeahh you know what Compet is.. Little hogglo will eat all the other mobs. Yeahh

So the direction MA is heading...in the wall, and there won't be trapped mobs or maybe trapped players..

SAD

I say we get a real Hogglo and let it lose at MA headquarters LOL.

OZtwo · Feb 23, 2015

MU all around doesn't look all that good. I update my MU data in Excel about every other month if that and every time I take a hit on MU. One of the odd issues is that at the end of the update my MU is going up somewhat due to items not being sold. I use Month MU data and every update less and less items are being sold and the Year and Decade MU data is higher which you can guess doesn't really help show the over all MU. Also most items are gong down to around 100% MU.

On my next update I am thinking about not updating any items that have not sold in a month. But doing that will show how much I really do not have at all and will most likely show that my deposit amount is way higher then my current MU value of items.

Edit:

Doing a fast update in Excel and removing all items that have not sold in a month my MU has gone down 2450.54. Good news is it isn't as bad as I was thinking it would be.

Kitch · Feb 24, 2015

Magnus Mag said:
if you really seriously asking this then you disqualified yourself from discussion...

Couldn't agree more :laugh:

m0rr0w2 said:
People with gambling problems are even more likely to blow money they don't have because MA has become greedy. I seriously think MA is heading in a bad bad direction. .

I have been thinking the same, that the IV explo is a gambler bait that is pushing bounds of what is really responsible/acceptable in a game. I think it could be very contraversial if it was in the public domain

But thats a different discussion

Anyway heres hoping Kim or someone could make a statement :ahh:

My attitude to the game is deteriorating slowly but surely

True Juan · Feb 24, 2015

If MA was again checked for gambling, I think it would be hard for them to explain the explosives BP

Honest answer on the direction of EU

Prowler

Prowler

Alpha

Prowler

Elite

Elite

Young

Elite

Prowler

Slayer

Young

Old Alpha

Elite

Elite

Young

Elite

Old Alpha

Young

Old Alpha

Stalker

Elite

Guardian

Slayer

Elite

Elite

Guardian

Guardian

Stalker

Prowler

Marauder