Question: Thorifoid buff - to keep hp down. Exploit or part of the game?

Is deregen buff an exploit of the helmet?

  • Yes

    Votes: 42 45.7%
  • No

    Votes: 50 54.3%

  • Total voters
    92
Thats what Cyree HUB is for - limited set of weapons - everyone are reduced to same hp/skills level: most important is actual pvp skills there ;).

Falagor
:bandit:

I will never do the Hub.

For me and i think most ingame pvp has always been about to get more skills and get better.

I put alot of hours to skill and make my avatar better, some missions i did decide reward to get better in PvP, so why enter a arena where all my hard work and hours get removed?

Skill system is one of the main things in EU, the hub is a cool idea but will never be big.
 
"j. You must immediately report errors and bugs in the Entropia Universe to MindArk whenever You discover them. You may not “cheat” or otherwise neglect to report errors or bugs, use bugs, slow connection, Internet latency, or other 'exploits' for own benefits or for the benefit of others."

If this isn't "for own benefits" Idkn what is. Text is snatched from the curret rules of conduct.

So using Mk.II scope for benefit (clearly it increases eco - so it is my own benefit) is also exploit?
Using strafe hunting method for my own benefits - exploit or not?
Using team hunting when one is running away and snd shooting and switching roles when mob changes target - exploit or not?

There is PLENTY examples where there IS "benefit" for using some item statistic or game mechanics in proper way...

The most important thing in the quote from eula above is definition of exploit (and eula does not state clearly what exploit is)...

If the helmet is an exploit or not is just a personal opinion - untill there is actual clear statement made in public (i.e. client loader).

So untill i see this statement in client loader i will have no problems using it (i.e. when flying in space).

If i remember right - MA made clear statement in client loader about VTOL hunting - why they can't make similar now and clear any doubts?

Falagor
:bandit:
 
I can do that, but there is a avatar name in the supportcase, ofc i can remove that but than the print will be edited so i dont see whats the difference :p

I did never answare them the full avatar name to be honest.

Im not trying to get people banned, i want a fair game where people know whats allowed and can use the same things.
After i got that message and MA told me its a exploit i could get banned if i use it, But MA dont make it clear to everyone if its exploit or not, should write on forum with a statement.

what iv learn is its better to not write support and use same shit others do :D


50_hp_exploit.jpg


Did also add another supportcase.

Thanks, great example! :) +rep

"j. You must immediately report errors and bugs in the Entropia Universe to MindArk whenever You discover them. You may not “cheat” or otherwise neglect to report errors or bugs, use bugs, slow connection, Internet latency, or other 'exploits' for own benefits or for the benefit of others."

If this isn't "for own benefits" Idkn what is. Text is snatched from the curret rules of conduct.

Thanks minim, good text to line out.

So using Mk.II scope for benefit (clearly it increases eco - so it is my own benefit) is also exploit?
Using strafe hunting method for my own benefits - exploit or not?
Using team hunting when one is running away and snd shooting and switching roles when mob changes target - exploit or not?

There is PLENTY examples where there IS "benefit" for using some item statistic or game mechanics in proper way...

The most important thing in the quote from eula above is definition of exploit (and eula does not state clearly what exploit is)...

If the helmet is an exploit or not is just a personal opinion - untill there is actual clear statement made in public (i.e. client loader).

So untill i see this statement in client loader i will have no problems using it (i.e. when flying in space).

If i remember right - MA made clear statement in client loader about VTOL hunting - why they can't make similar now and clear any doubts?

Falagor
:bandit:

I agree with you that we need an official statement, but please stay on topic - wanna keep this only about helmet :)

Still, what about 3% faster, 50% deregen? That is not denying regen, just slowing it down.
Xpl0jds support case is over a year old and nothing has been done about it. Untill an official statement about the helmet has been made, I think this is open for intepretation at own risk
 
What a strange thread.

- Remove the below 50% HP = non-lootable and helmet will not work. Any other tricks based on this won't work either.
- Leave this ingame and there's always ways to keep your HP down. With or without the helmet.

If u really want a solution go to war against the root of the problem. Direct assault, open battle.
But nobody tries that any more. Because by now it's an old feature already and u might not win the battle.



Well, all this reminds me the man who lost his wallet in the park at night. He lost it in the dark bushes but he's looking for it under the streetlight instead. Because it's easier to search under the streetlight.

and... MA support once again demonstrates the endless state of confusion. Sadly, nothing new there.
 
I can do that, but there is a avatar name in the supportcase, ofc i can remove that but than the print will be edited so i dont see whats the difference :p

I did never answare them the full avatar name to be honest.

Im not trying to get people banned, i want a fair game where people know whats allowed and can use the same things.
After i got that message and MA told me its a exploit i could get banned if i use it, But MA dont make it clear to everyone if its exploit or not, should write on forum with a statement.

what iv learn is its better to not write support and use same shit others do :D


50_hp_exploit.jpg


Did also add another supportcase.


Haha...those don't mean ANYTHING!

I have 3 support cases from that month of that year, and none of them are signed by anyone from MA!

all my other dozens of support cases were signed by someone.

Your case was obviously answered by someone with NO AUTHORITY. Probably some temp at MA who had no clue what they were talking about, (as is evidenced by my support answers from that month)

My answers from that period look almost as if MA hired one of their kids so he could make some money after school responding to all with whatever we wanted to hear and a "promise" to look into it.

Why doesn't anyone show a response from a REAL MA employee?

Because there is none.

And Minim, you are muddying the waters with that capture. It is NOT an exploit to wear a helmet, so this situation does NOT apply to your quote. It is also not "cheating" to wear it anywhere you want atm.

"j. You must immediately report errors and bugs in the Entropia Universe to MindArk whenever You discover them. You may not “cheat” or otherwise neglect to report errors or bugs, use bugs, slow connection, Internet latency, or other 'exploits' for own benefits or for the benefit of others."

If this isn't "for own benefits" Idkn what is. Text is snatched from the curret rules of conduct.

It is not cheating or an exploit til MA says it is, and so far they haven't.

It is easy to program certain items to unequip when you enter a zone...MA has already done it plenty of times. If they cared, they would do that with this helmet. They won't. They wont remove mobs either that one can let eat up hp before they get their claims.

Until they do so, people, Big PvP'ers only option is to scare you...they want to keep stealing your ped.

It is EXACTLY what big ugly bullys do. They try to scare you, so they can get what they want.

Get rid of PvP and landgrabs, and let the dinosaurs die.
 
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I have the answer signed by Ulf (EU support), in which he promises to fix this bug in future and in which he regretted that too many people will start to use it due to the fact that I wrote about using helm in Space on the forum. Nothing more. No one will get banned. So please stop PvP here
 
Haha...those don't mean ANYTHING!

I have 3 support cases from that month of that year, and none of them are signed by anyone from MA!

all my other dozens of support cases were signed by someone.

Your case was obviously answered by someone with NO AUTHORITY. Probably some temp at MA who had no clue what they were talking about, (as is evidenced by my support answers from that month)

My answers from that period look almost as if MA hired one of their kids so he could make some money after school responding to all with whatever we wanted to hear and a "promise" to look into it.

Why doesn't anyone show a response from a REAL MA employee?

Because there is none.

And Minim, you are muddying the waters with that capture. It is NOT an exploit to wear a helmet, so this situation does NOT apply to your quote. It is also not "cheating" to wear it anywhere you want atm.



It is not cheating or an exploit til MA says it is, and so far they haven't.

It is easy to program certain items to unequip when you enter a zone...MA has already done it plenty of times. If they cared, they would do that with this helmet. They won't. They wont remove mobs either that one can let eat up hp before they get their claims.

Until they do so, people, Big PvP'ers only option is to scare you...they want to keep stealing your ped.

It is EXACTLY what big ugly bullys do. They try to scare you, so they can get what they want.

Get rid of PvP and landgrabs, and let the dinosaurs die.

I'll continue with the analogy.

It is not a cheat or exploit to fly a vtol so it is not a cheat/exploit to hunt with one eihter. So what's the advantages of doing so compared to others that feel that it is cheating?

1: You can hunt way above your level getting loot that others skilled for a long time to get.
2: You don't have to skill or buy defense skills since there is no use for it when mob never reach you.
3. You don't have to buy a uber fap or rent a medic like others would have to do.
4. You can manage without a armor. No need to buy that..
And I could continue forever with the personal adventage you get for doing this. Added upon you ruin for others as if this became the common way of hunting faps, armors, skills ++ would become worthless and many professions ingame are hurt by this.

Ok so why did I spoonfeed you this first? Because this is exactly the same thing. Using a item or system ingame in a way it is not intended to be used. This helmet was not made for keeping your health below 50% so others could not kill you in a PVP zone just like Vtol was not made so that you could hunt without taking hits. The PVP zone ingame is a part of the game economy and it plays a important part for many players. Removing the risk of mining in PVP will over time crash the markup and ruin the pvp zone for both parties so I don't get why anyone would want that? Miners want the markup and PVPers want the pvp rush in lootable pvp ^^

There is a lot of items ingame that can be used in ways it was not inteded to be used just to gain a unfair advantage over other players and deep down I know that most with common sense agreed to that it is exploiting the system. Over time this is ruining the game as MA constantly have to nerf items to avoid exploiters. Back to the vtol/vehicles again it was very nice to be able to enter the vtol instantly when mining or if you got doubled by mobs but picked up your vtol to quickly. It was also nice to be able to used vtol in the proteron spawn for moving around quickly when you ran out of mobs but look at what the exploiters made MA do there. If you still fail to see the point here I really give up here cause then you are a lost cause ^^
 
I'll continue with the analogy.

It is not a cheat or exploit to fly a vtol so it is not a cheat/exploit to hunt with one eihter. So what's the advantages of doing so compared to others that feel that it is cheating?

1: You can hunt way above your level getting loot that others skilled for a long time to get.
2: You don't have to skill or buy defense skills since there is no use for it when mob never reach you.
3. You don't have to buy a uber fap or rent a medic like others would have to do.
4. You can manage without a armor. No need to buy that..
And I could continue forever with the personal adventage you get for doing this. Added upon you ruin for others as if this became the common way of hunting faps, armors, skills ++ would become worthless and many professions ingame are hurt by this.

Ok so why did I spoonfeed you this first? Because this is exactly the same thing. Using a item or system ingame in a way it is not intended to be used. This helmet was not made for keeping your health below 50% so others could not kill you in a PVP zone just like Vtol was not made so that you could hunt without taking hits. The PVP zone ingame is a part of the game economy and it plays a important part for many players. Removing the risk of mining in PVP will over time crash the markup and ruin the pvp zone for both parties so I don't get why anyone would want that? Miners want the markup and PVPers want the pvp rush in lootable pvp ^^

There is a lot of items ingame that can be used in ways it was not inteded to be used just to gain a unfair advantage over other players and deep down I know that most with common sense agreed to that it is exploiting the system. Over time this is ruining the game as MA constantly have to nerf items to avoid exploiters. Back to the vtol/vehicles again it was very nice to be able to enter the vtol instantly when mining or if you got doubled by mobs but picked up your vtol to quickly. It was also nice to be able to used vtol in the proteron spawn for moving around quickly when you ran out of mobs but look at what the exploiters made MA do there. If you still fail to see the point here I really give up here cause then you are a lost cause ^^


But...but...but... MA said that vTol hunting is not allowed. It is hard to enforce though so they must do investigations to ban someone, and people still do it. But....

This is easy to enforce if they wanted to, but they haven't made it unequip automatically in pvp yet, and no one from MA has put their name on a statement that it is NOT ALLOWED.

Until they do so, it is allowed!

So all we have is a bunch of PvP'ers whining because THEY think its an exploit, and trying to put words in MA's mouth.

If you don't have a problem with people making up shit and trying to make it sound illegal, fine, but I sure as hell do.


Edit: and just because Ulf called it a "bug" (Gewitter post a few up from this one) doesn't mean anything...Ulf called the MS pilots crashing a "bug" too, and never did anything about Micjack camping the know crash locations and and shooting crashed out ships. So, until they clearly say that it is against the rules, anyone can do it, and they won't care, and no one will get banned.
 
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But...but...but... MA said that vTol hunting is not allowed. It is hard to enforce though so they must do investigations to ban someone, and people still do it. But....

This is easy to enforce if they wanted to, but they haven't made it unequip automatically in pvp yet, and no one from MA has put their name on a statement that it is NOT ALLOWED.

So all we have is a bunch of PvP'ers whining because THEY think its an exploit, and trying to put words in MA's mouth.

If you don't have a problem with people making up shit and trying to make it sound illegal, fine, but I sure as hell do.

Ask Mary Jane what he said when hunting warlocks in crater with VTOL and looted a full ESI and got banned for it ^^ It took forever before they nerfed VTOLs and went out public with it also but eventually it came just like it will in this case. Most of us didn't VTOL hunt tho because we knew it was wrong. They cannot write a law for everything, people have to use common sense..
 
Ask Mary Jane what he said when hunting warlocks in crater with VTOL and looted a full ESI and got banned for it ^^ It took forever before they nerfed VTOLs and went out public with it also but eventually it came just like it will in this case. Most of us didn't VTOL hunt tho because we knew it was wrong. They cannot write a law for everything, people have to use common sense..

That is true...that situation (and vtols in general) was a very hard one to fix or enforce, and MA also made an official stance on the issue.

This one is cake but they haven't done anything yet. Tbh, I don't understand why...usually they listen to all the big-shots really quickly on other issues...not sure why they ignore this one, other than the fact that they don't care.

They very well might change it in the upcoming vu's, who knows, but for now, I think all we have here is bullys whining because the game implemented something they don't like.
 
seriously guys... it's called LOOTABLE pvp for a reason :scratch2:
 
seriously guys... it's called LOOTABLE pvp for a reason :scratch2:

Oh....so it should just be FORCED LOOTABLE the second you set foot in it? Maybe just automatically transport our loot to the PvP kings inventory the second we cross the boundary...

Orrrrrrr.......maybe......people are allowed to use the things implemented in game, to be clever, to figure out or devise new strategies in an order to protect their own loot. Just like the PvP kings use all the tricks, implementations and items that they have or can figure out!

PvP is a game of chess...it is not an automatic black and white right to loot someone just cuz it's pvp.

Lootable PvP - means you CAN be looted, not that you MUST be looted.

A person with a helm on and <50% health still CAN be looted and you all know how. You all just don't want to do any work or try hard :)
 
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1: You can hunt way above your level getting loot that others skilled for a long time to get.
2: You don't have to skill or buy defense skills since there is no use for it when mob never reach you.
3. You don't have to buy a uber fap or rent a medic like others would have to do.
4. You can manage without a armor. No need to buy that..

Hehe now it is my hunting style. Without VTOL. But with ML-35 SGA T6.
1. Proterons are 44 lvl (and above), higher than my evade (35+)
2. No need to defence skills, mobs almost never reach me
3. No FAP (very rare I/0 Pulse Unit lol)
4. No armor.
No additional decay except ML-35 decay and spending damage enhancers.
It is exploit, you mean?

Added: Of course, I forgot Improved Evil and sighths. Can I ask, if I hit ATH, 50K PED with my ML-35 (it is possible as you know ;)) w/o armor, FAP and other defence, because I move backwards while shooting, I must be banned as Mary Jane with VTOL?
 
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seriously guys... it's called LOOTABLE pvp for a reason :scratch2:

Don't waste more of your time here.. I tried to spoonfeed that taco dude but he's still lost. I've wasted 5min of my life that I will never get back in here ^^
 
Don't waste more of your time here.. I tried to spoonfeed that taco dude but he's still lost. I've wasted 5min of my life that I will never get back in here ^^

I actually do get it. I just hate everyone in PvP for the exact reason I stated pages ago...when I saw MA RX unit deliberately giving loot to a WSS member, I made it my goal to make all your lives harder. So I played the other side of the argument...if wasting 5 of your minutes was all I could do, it was still worth it.
 
I actually do get it. I just hate everyone in PvP for the exact reason I stated pages ago...when I saw MA RX unit deliberately giving loot to a WSS member, I made it my goal to make all your lives harder. So I played the other side of the argument...if wasting 5 of your minutes was all I could do, it was still worth it.

Thank you for showing what maturity level you are at so I don't have to reply anymore :) You kinda ended and lost the discussion completly by yourself :yay:
 
i believe this should be un-equipable/auto removed in pvp to avoid this issue, just like pet shouldnt be spawnable in pvp, yet there is counter method to it, like heal the guy.

(portable TT cant be used, would be easy to make it so the helmet and pets cant either, sorry to bring up the pet affair)

Pvp should be a raw environement where only the core equipement should be allowed, armor, fap, gun and mindforce boons.
 
i believe this should be un-equipable/auto removed in pvp to avoid this issue, just like pet shouldnt be spawnable in pvp, yet there is counter method to it, like heal the guy.

(portable TT cant be used, would be easy to make it so the helmet and pets cant either, sorry to bring up the pet affair)

Pvp should be a raw environement where only the core equipement should be allowed, armor, fap, gun and mindforce boons.

Well if MA does this, miners will go back to old style, pulling some mobs that keep them below 50% HP to keep their loot.
What is different?

For me it doesn´t matter if anybody in lootable PvP using the helmet or alternative the mobs to keep his HP low.

If you want loot of this miners, heal them first. It works, I learned that. Since that happened to me I use other more secure option to save my loot. Surely will not reveal how it works here, but one or other PKer in PvP4 already seen it, and know how it works.
 
Ofc exploit. Support told that many times. No poit discusting any more.

P.S. Everyone like Yq can go and fuck himself in ass with his "ma errors fixing in suport cases


only friends call me Yq so you king of all cheater's should not. And no I don't want to buy your butplug
 
Thats what Cyree HUB is for - limited set of weapons - everyone are reduced to same hp/skills level: most important is actual pvp skills there ;).

Falagor
:bandit:
Humm you even PvP ?? Or just post the first thing come out of you mind :scratch2:
 
I'll continue with the analogy.

It is not a cheat or exploit to fly a vtol so it is not a cheat/exploit to hunt with one eihter. So what's the advantages of doing so compared to others that feel that it is cheating?
Figured someone will bring up VTOL hunting.
This seems a valid argument, but if u look closely, there's one very improtant difference. So important that it makes the comparison invalid.

VTOL hunting is based on a basic feature (flying vehicle) in a situation it was not intended to be used.
Thorifoid buff is based on a basic feature (>50% HP non-lootable) in a situation it supposedly also was not intended to be used.

Difference is, you can't switch off all VTOLs just like that and blocking only certain use is complicated.
However, there's nothing easier than switch off the ">50% HP non-lootable" if that was what MA wants - cuz no other game functions would be affected. All related problems would disappear like bad dream.
Yet, it hasn't happened. Why?

Btw, it's not about what I want, my opinion is irrelevant here. Just trying to figure out how it must look like from MA's perspective.
 
Humm you even PvP ?? Or just post the first thing come out of you mind :scratch2:

I was mining in pvp4 back then and if i found occasion i did some pvp fights. But since i realised there are so many things one can do to actually cheat - i really hated the pvp lootable aspect of the game in the form it was and is now. Basicly atm you HAVE to kow all the tricks (this is the most important factor) and have ingame skills + expensive gear (that are snd important thing). Real pvp skill is not important at all (i.e. when using "Select target" for having 100% accurate shots - against this trick real pvp skills does not matter at all).

That is why i vote for removing lootable pvp aspect of the game completly.

If the game was based on actuall pvp skills and i.e. hitbox system with really good cliets<->server synchronisation time - then i would love to see some pvp lootale action and probably would be pvp killer myself ;).

Atm it is just "who knows better tricks - wins" fest. Thorio helmet is just another trick.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
That is why i vote for removing lootable pvp aspect of the game completly.
:bandit:

For what? Pvp for me is the best in game fun really,, and it also gives an incentive to grow.
 
I was mining in pvp4 back then and if i found occasion i did some pvp fights. But since i realised there are so many things one can do to actually cheat - i really hated the pvp lootable aspect of the game in the form it was and is now. Basicly atm you HAVE to kow all the tricks (this is the most important factor) and have ingame skills + expensive gear (that are snd important thing). Real pvp skill is not important at all (i.e. when using "Select target" for having 100% accurate shots - against this trick real pvp skills does not matter at all).

That is why i vote for removing lootable pvp aspect of the game completly.

If the game was based on actuall pvp skills and i.e. hitbox system with really good cliets<->server synchronisation time - then i would love to see some pvp lootale action and probably would be pvp killer myself ;).

Atm it is just "who knows better tricks - wins" fest. Thorio helmet is just another trick.

Falagor
:bandit:

Well PvP is only thing keep me in this game
And no one force you to go in.. The even made a warning now enter on you own risk
About select target I don't use that option
Ma suppose to remove that option long a go but I guess still around
And since you quit PvP
The lootable is not in you list so what you are argueen here again ??
 
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The lootable is not in you list so what you are argueen here again ??

Discussion here is about thorfoid helmet - in my opinion its another trick used in pvp fights. The only difference is: it can be used by "victims" to gain advantage (finally) and not like 90% of other tricks used in pvp that give advantage to "killers".

If players really want this to be marked as exploit - then there are plenty of other things there that should be marked like that first.

In my opinion it would be better to just remove pvp lootable content from game totally than trying to fix it in state that it is now (and mayby try to invent something new for real pvp liking players) - current system is just broken.

And it is not on my list not becasue i do not want to go there - it is because all the tricks that are avaible make me hate the system in current state.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
yesterday I was at near zero health (after being killed by Aurli) when I went into space.
I was killed and was looted for my 1 nova that I was carrying.
I am confused because what I read here says that if you are below 50% you cannot be looted.

My thought is because my health was that low POST death.
Can anyone confirm? Or are you looted if health is below 50% and not like people say here??
 
yesterday I was at near zero health (after being killed by Aurli) when I went into space.
I was killed and was looted for my 1 nova that I was carrying.
I am confused because what I read here says that if you are below 50% you cannot be looted.

My thought is because my health was that low POST death.
Can anyone confirm? Or are you looted if health is below 50% and not like people say here??

Afaik - you need to be hit by mob from above (prefered full) hp.

So i.e. falling damage is not coutned and does not work.

To make sure - heal to full hp - then find mob that will hit you down to under 50% (but wont kill you) and put on the helmet. It will work as the mob has "kill stealed" your loot from player killer - so it must be one mob that deals more damage than the killer ;).

Falagor
:bandit:
 
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Afaik - you need to be hit by mob from above (prefered full) hp.

So i.e. falling damage is not coutned and does not work.

To make sure - heal to full hp - then find mob that will hit you down to under 50% (but wont kill you) and put on the helmet. It will work as the mob has "kill stealed" your loot from player killer - so it must be one mob that deals more damage than the killer ;).

Falagor
:bandit:

I wonder if the mob has to be alive still for it to work? If you get below 50% then the mob gets killed by a turret will that mean the damage no longer counts for pvp loot area?:scratch2:
 
This is BS from MA one more time!
When PVP4 arrived to this game theres no 50% rule anywhere!
Who's loosing with that 50% rule?
Pkers, why? Because even if u are killed when u have hps below 50% u will loose toxic!
Because if even toxic shot was not lost MA already had changed this at so long time ago!

If MA is not loosing theres no problem about exploit!
 
There should be no circumstance in which being killed by a player in a lootable area does not result in you losing your loot.

Whether it's an exploit or a feature you can argue all you want - I have no interest in getting involved in your silly bickering - but to me it seems like if it works any other way, it's wrong.
 
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