What's Wrong with the Economy.

Ace Flyster said:

Hell they could introduce a 2000/click or 20000/click none of which would make a blind bit of difference now.

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Did anyone attempt to click the 2k (?) ruga BP, for CLD?

aia said:

Did anyone attempt to click the 2k (?) ruga BP, for CLD?

Click to expand...

I really wanted to click that!

But in all seriousness, if MA introduced the expl bp's for extra revenue, which i believe they did, please please put in 200 ped per click, i really want to see the first 1 million ped loot! (Imagine the news reports after that)

Rgds

Ace

Ace Flyster said:

I really wanted to click that!

But in all seriousness, if MA introduced the expl bp's for extra revenue, which i believe they did, please please put in 200 ped per click, i really want to see the first 1 million ped loot! (Imagine the news reports after that)

Rgds

Ace

Click to expand...

There is shared mobs with even more stupid price to kill, still they doesn't "explode" in that way.

Too risky.

dr3w said:

There is shared mobs with even more stupid price to kill, still they doesn't "explode" in that way.

Too risky.

Click to expand...

I agree it's too risky, won't stop people though

Rgds

Ace

MA destroyed the backbone of any healthy economy,the INDUSTRY !!!! Ok they made residue cheap,but they killed all low or middle level crafters (they really relay on the residue to cut down their losses ...i'm one of them so i know what i'm talking about ) ...add that to the fact that 80-90% of the BP's are just not worth crafting,mobs drop weapons and armor that are most of the times better then the crafted ones and a picture starts to take shape .
I kept reading posts like "you need to adapt" , but MA never adapted,only players had to ...there's an ALL TIME LOW number of players in a VERY big universe (from 10 pages in FL,only 5-6 people are ever online,and same people,some haven't been online for ages),all existing players probably are fewer then when the universe was made out of Caly+Asteroid ...MA can't even keep existing players in,let alone attract new ones.
It's supposed to be an RCE game, E as in ECONOMY !!! Every economy in the world who tends to the needs of big corporations,destroy low and middle industry,tax the majority for the few, has or is about to fail (bankrupt states,see Greece, or bankrupt cities,see Detroit, ring a bell to anyone???? ) ... you can extrapolated all these things to EU and you'll see where the road goes,if MA doesn't take actions
What actions can they take ?? Do something to the crafting sector (there are very great ideas in threads found in Crafting section of this forum, like make all BP's usefull and so on) , stop taxing the majority of players so heavily (small profits from a big turnover,done often, is always better then big profits once in a while ... ENGROSS selling is always more profitable then en detail,but i guess the marketing department at MA skipped many economics classes ) , find alternative ways of attracting capital (advertising some products ingame rings a bell MA marketing team????? )
About the advertising products ingame ... some will say NO way,i don't want that,but if that extra capital sees it's way in the players ped card (better returns to all profetions) i doubt anyone will complain
After all this is supposed to be an RCE game and i guess no one at MA thought that most will come to the game attracted by the idea that they can play a game and at the same time make some money (who says otherwise it's a liar, there are 10000000000 games out there who have better graphics,content,gameplay and everything else that makes a game fun) ...so if you bleed dry the majority for the company's and few investors profits,people will quit because who considers fun losing money day-in and day-out ???? this has already happened on a massive scale and is still happening,not even sure it can be turned around,unless some MASSIVE changes are made
Keep ignoring the majority for the needs of the few and you'll find the Universe very empty,it's already began and will continue to do so,unless you do those massive changes that are needed and FAST !!

Elmurfud said:

MA destroyed the backbone of any healthy economy,the INDUSTRY !!!! Ok they made residue cheap,but they killed all low or middle level crafters (they really relay on the residue to cut down their losses ...i'm one of them so i know what i'm talking about ) ...add that to the fact that 80-90% of the BP's are just not worth crafting,mobs drop weapons and armor that are most of the times better then the crafted ones and a picture starts to take shape .
I kept reading posts like "you need to adapt" , but MA never adapted,only players had to ...there's an ALL TIME LOW number of players in a VERY big universe (from 10 pages in FL,only 5-6 people are ever online,and same people,some haven't been online for ages),all existing players probably are fewer then when the universe was made out of Caly+Asteroid ...MA can't even keep existing players in,let alone attract new ones.
It's supposed to be an RCE game, E as in ECONOMY !!! Every economy in the world who tends to the needs of big corporations,destroy low and middle industry,tax the majority for the few, has or is about to fail (bankrupt states,see Greece, or bankrupt cities,see Detroit, ring a bell to anyone???? ) ... you can extrapolated all these things to EU and you'll see where the road goes,if MA doesn't take actions
What actions can they take ?? Do something to the crafting sector (there are very great ideas in threads found in Crafting section of this forum, like make all BP's usefull and so on) , stop taxing the majority of players so heavily (small profits from a big turnover,done often, is always better then big profits once in a while ... ENGROSS selling is always more profitable then en detail,but i guess the marketing department at MA skipped many economics classes ) , find alternative ways of attracting capital (advertising some products ingame rings a bell MA marketing team????? )
About the advertising products ingame ... some will say NO way,i don't want that,but if that extra capital sees it's way in the players ped card (better returns to all profetions) i doubt anyone will complain
After all this is supposed to be an RCE game and i guess no one at MA thought that most will come to the game attracted by the idea that they can play a game and at the same time make some money (who says otherwise it's a liar, there are 10000000000 games out there who have better graphics,content,gameplay and everything else that makes a game fun) ...so if you bleed dry the majority for the company's and few investors profits,people will quit because who considers fun losing money day-in and day-out ???? this has already happened on a massive scale and is still happening,not even sure it can be turned around,unless some MASSIVE changes are made
Keep ignoring the majority for the needs of the few and you'll find the Universe very empty,it's already began and will continue to do so,unless you do those massive changes that are needed and FAST !!

Click to expand...

This game has more players than ever, the problem is you dont see it. There are a massive influx of new players, just cause your online FL is short dont mean game is empty.

MA focus on handling the new players atm, thats a good sign, have some patience.

Has more players then ever???? then probably they sell all things at TT,since the number of auctioned stuff is rearly over 900 on Caly ..also you can run/fly on the map for hours and barely find 3-4 green dots on radar ... we probably play in paralel universes,mine is less populated it seems
And i'm very patient since i haven't quited yet,still waiting for the game to go better,not worse(as it has in last few years)

Elmurfud said:

Has more players then ever???? then probably they sell all things at TT,since the number of auctioned stuff is rearly over 900 on Caly ..also you can run/fly on the map for hours and barely find 3-4 green dots on radar ... we probably play in paralel universes,mine is less populated it seems
And i'm very patient since i haven't quited yet,still waiting for the game to go better,not worse(as it has in last few years)

Click to expand...

Well unique players globalling in hunting almost doubled compared to 2012/2013. So i guess it is not so deserted as you say.

Jennson said:

Well unique players globalling in hunting almost doubled compared to 2012/2013. So i guess it is not so deserted as you say.

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But now global amount is less to attain, needed 50 ped on all mobs 1012/2013 if i remember correctly. Now see 10 ped etc globals on lower mobs which didn't show before change as were not globals.

Not sure if more or less people tbh in game, but i do think economy isn't as strong but that my opinion. Are the CLD payments lower than in 1012/2013? ..... thats the real sign of activity.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?219981-Calypso-Land-Deed-ROI-tracker

Seems calypso activity (revenue) is down on previous so in fact on calypso at least activity is lower according to cld returns.... on spreadsheet tracked at least.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?pli=1&key=0Aj1CPJcQncDndHF4X2I4aDB3blhFVWNpY2E3a1FUSWc#gid=0

What's Wrong with the Economy?

Hmmm...ok...im new to EU (only 9 months in game...) but old enough to understand the economic situation

Nothing changed for me after MA introduce Explo BP's in game but after few days later MA change the Exchange rate: 9.67 ...why no one talk for this??

That starngulate the economy ...i deposit every month 200/300 euros but after this get less peds to play/invest in my gaming...

I think Explo BP's was a smart idea and good move to make the prices of crafting items more cheaper and so players can buy more items and crafters to have job ang gains ...but the low excange rate make this to look like a bad joke

I dont know if that was a plan of MA (retire AUD Brokers and put AUD's on webshop and make them more attractive to investors and this means after a few time/months return to higher excange rate...) or just a bad/greedy decision...

Also as i know many players have stop or quiting EU because the bad loots or no loots mobs (and also i have to report it ...i cant hunt and get 6/10 and more on low lvl mobs and 3-4/10 no loots mobs on medium lvl mobs ...) or in mining gets back less of 30%...i have stop hunting and mining and do only daily missions and sweating (i hate sweating...) until loots weather gets more shining and the loots more decent ...atleast to 70% and more return...

I dont talk for crafting why i have burned and try to raise my skills after huge loses ...thats why never say a word when i see crafters to get Hof's...

After 9 months and i have raise my skills... my hunting/mining and crafting gets crappy and really sometimes i thinking why i continue to play this...but as in RL i have patience same doing and here...for how long ...not sure

So less players, not fun (big loses and very laggy times...) and more expensive gaming kills EU...not the BP's ...but MA knows better

Anyway ...and thats why i have find and other game <removed> for when get mad from EU and MA's decisions

Faceof...

omg he mentioned another ....!!!! lucky that i was faster than the censor mods this time...

It's always been 9.67. That is 10 to 1 minus the 3 to 3.5% for credit card transaction. Outside of credit card transactions, it'll be based on your currency value to the USD.

Hehehhe...u know better ...for 6 months gets more of 10 ...but better i show u (is the biggest paysafe u can buy in my country = 50euros) :

13028487 17 Mar 2015 10:27 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 475.00 ...
13013078 25 Feb 2015 08:20 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 509.70
12998123 03 Feb 2015 08:32 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 508.90
12993013 27 Jan 2015 07:29 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 505.90
12985491 17 Jan 2015 09:11 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 521.40
12965788 24 Dec 2014 08:03 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 549.50
12956248 11 Dec 2014 08:26 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 557.60
12951159 02 Dec 2014 11:03 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 561.10
12948773 28 Nov 2014 09:55 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 561.60
12929610 27 Oct 2014 10:14 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 569.60
12927607 24 Oct 2014 08:23 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 570.10
12926053 21 Oct 2014 09:25 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 574.70
12923581 17 Oct 2014 07:48 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 573.70
12920970 12 Oct 2014 07:21 Committed Paysafecard Deposit 568.70

Norbert said:

But now global amount is less to attain, needed 50 ped on all mobs 1012/2013 if i remember correctly. Now see 10 ped etc globals on lower mobs which didn't show before change as were not globals.

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When I started in June 2013, I often wondered why the global threshold was 10 ped on daikiba but 50 ped on shinkiba (back then, they were the same HP at least for lower maturities, now daikiba is denerfed a bit)

Creatures that have had global threshold lowered since then (likely incomplete list):

• pwnies (including Calypso Gateway)
• snables
• combibo
• berycled
• shinkiba
• cornundos
• not quite sure about merp and snarksnot

Also, iron missions on kerberos and berycled may have played a role.

I have stopped by to make deposits since a couple of months.

Haruto Rat said:

When I started in June 2013, I often wondered why the global threshold was 10 ped on daikiba but 50 ped on shinkiba (back then, they were the same HP at least for lower maturities, now daikiba is denerfed a bit)

Creatures that have had global threshold lowered since then (likely incomplete list):

• pwnies (including Calypso Gateway)
• snables
• combibo
• berycled
• shinkiba
• cornundos
• not quite sure about merp and snarksnot

Also, iron missions on kerberos and berycled may have played a role.

Click to expand...

All mobs were change as regard to global threshold at same time, i forget when it was to be honest (maybe 2 years ago 2013? iirc). Before that point all mobs only globalled at 50 ped + loot, smaller mobs had higher hof threshold hence 1k bery young, 8k argo young etc - and very few globals for them.

Now however many more low end globals due to limit on globals being changed from 50 ped to some multiplier of cost per kill/health so now 8 ped, 10 ped, 15 ped etc etc. So saying are more people globalling now from 2012/13 to now is not a measure of how economy/number of players is going.

As i said only measure we have now is cld/aud payouts that are directly related to pp profit.

Gewitter said:

I have just one question.

I'd really like to know where these people have extra money to increase their turnover (If you mean more resources = more turnover)?
These 5-7% - a drop in the ocean. But overall MU on resources decreased much more.
Which undoubtedly affected to the turnover of these people .. towards its reduction.
And it became more difficult to get a profit (maybe not for you or me, but for most other players)

Click to expand...

To explain this:

Crafter doing a 1500 PED craft, buying resource at 150% cycles 1000 PED rescource (TT value).
Same crafter paying only 110%, cycles 1363 PED resource (TT value).

With lower markups the crafter can cycle more resource for same money, thats it, where the money comes from.

Every % in MU less results in more resource cycled by crafter for the same money.
Every % MU paid from crafter is an instant loss for the crafter the moment he buy the resource.

Lower markup is not a bad thing, just matters what angle of view.

Norbert said:

Now however many more low end globals due to limit on globals being changed from 50 ped to some multiplier of cost per kill/health so now 8 ped, 10 ped, 15 ped etc etc. So saying are more people globalling now from 2012/13 to now is not a measure of how economy/number of players is going.

Click to expand...

What I have found kind of odd here is that with the lower value globals you would think that there would be a flood of globals on Calypso now...but for the most part I found when visiting that they seem to be a bit lower if not the same as they were just a few years back. MA said they did this to spread out the globals for all when in turn it seems they just lowered the overall payout?

OZtwo said:

What I have found kind of odd here is that with the lower value globals you would think that there would be a flood of globals on Calypso now...but for the most part I found when visiting that they seem to be a bit lower if not the same as they were just a few years back. MA said they did this to spread out the globals for all when in turn it seems they just lowered the overall payout?

Click to expand...

I think is just lower activity atm and is backed up by lower cld payouts on calypso at least. Not surprising though when you consider the strength of the US Dollar at the moment, less ped per Euro/Kroner/Canadian $/ etc.

Even if people were depositing the same budget per month it translates to less actual ped in game for non US players. Summers here now in Europe also, so people change habits etc during summer months more time out enjoying the sun.

Norbert said:

Summers here now in Europe also, so people change habits etc during summer months more time out enjoying the sun.

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Nail on head.

Lovely weather here in England, people find other things to do, Entropia activity is seasonal.

Plenty of green dots at Camp Icarus.

OZtwo said:

What I have found kind of odd here is that with the lower value globals you would think that there would be a flood of globals on Calypso now...but for the most part I found when visiting that they seem to be a bit lower if not the same as they were just a few years back. MA said they did this to spread out the globals for all when in turn it seems they just lowered the overall payout?

Click to expand...

You should see it on the other planets, some days it can take over an hour before you see one on Ark.

GoNi said:

To explain this:

Crafter doing a 1500 PED craft, buying resource at 150% cycles 1000 PED rescource (TT value).
Same crafter paying only 110%, cycles 1363 PED resource (TT value).

With lower markups the crafter can cycle more resource for same money, thats it, where the money comes from.

Every % in MU less results in more resource cycled by crafter for the same money.
Every % MU paid from crafter is an instant loss for the crafter the moment he buy the resource.

Lower markup is not a bad thing, just matters what angle of view.

Click to expand...

Try few days of crafting,maybe weeks and see how good the low MU is for a crafter ... last year i was able to sell my crafted stuff in 2-3 days,now it takes alot longer (even if the mu is about 8-10% lower) ... add that to a lowering return rate on crafting and it makes me stop crafting,which means i'm not buying resourses and that means a miner,hunter sells for harder and for less and the circle goes round and round ... MU is everything,always was,makes you cicle more,not tt (when it comes tt you will lose overall)
And look at hunting loot...why is the mu for hunting loot going down,even if 50% of the time you have ammo and shrapnel in it?? lower drops in other stuff (oils,wools,hides) but mu is still low because crafters aren't buying it ... that says something about the number of crafters and the way crafting is doing

I stoped playing shorly after CLD`s were implemented and if not go in too much details, then i left as Second golden age was total rippoff and how items were looted and economy those days had total breakdown. I were watching game some months and it went just worse.

So now i came back and played 2 weeks. What i see now - it looks like amazing crisis and also i see those new Exp. projectile BP implementation, and it looks like "last rescue call of MA".

Also i see nice things like vesicles and their prices are very affordable, whats positive.

If i look into graphs of various type of items and resources, we see that sales and MU is only falling down and down, so economy is just going down ... as it looks player base is getting smaller and new players are not too much coming in.

Entropia economy if based just on any items MU, as we know TT profit isnt possible in long term and what covers part of loses is MU and the second main thing is that MU comes from supply and demand, and also if there is no demand there is no MU at all. If there is no MU we got regular MMORP where you just sell to NPC (TT) all your loot. There we losing EU as RCE.


I played those 2 weeks and must say that general TT return were ok and normal, but so tiny MU makes playing nonsense ... unless you are that lucky by hitting uber HOF/ATH or unique very expensive item ... but those are so few, that ppl play years in hope for 1 such loot. So i played in low stakes and most of my starting 70$ were gone in
1st week, 2nd one i managed to somehow with very low activity to survive. now i got 150 PED left of it. Thats for me, having some knowledge and some information about EU of my previous playing ... what about new players? How they can survive ... how they can get addicted and pulled into game ... i think none will invest some 300+ bucks in to game in such situation and economy ... would i? definetly not. You ?

If back to EP BP`s ... i think it another super huge mistake! Why ?
I. with this move mu squish existing player base even more.
II. ar more crafter craft EP Bp`s we get such effect:
- less ore/enmater consumed ... MU falls, demand falls, supply oversized!
- cheap res, leads to cheaper crafted items, so crafted item MU falls, supply rises
- as crafted weapons and tools are cheaper, then miners can mine more cheap with amps and mining supply rises as already told, but it rises also for this reason, hunters can hunt more cheap, but as there are plenty of cheap crafted stuff already with lowered MU, also looted stuff gets lower in MU. Also deamand for looted and crafted staff drops, leading to lower MU also for hunting loots.
In the end we get that every loot: mined, crafted, hunted is cheaper, lower in MU.
Crafters are happy having cheap skilling now with EP BP`s, but take in mind: your crafted weapons, armors and tools and everything will also drop in MU, so not only miner and hunter MU will be lower (and also possible chance of profit) but also yours as crafter ... your crafted stuff will be come also TT food or very cheap.

So as MU and any demands will fall in supply will just rise, our EU RCE will become EU crafting Explosive projectiles slot machine with some exceptions who will gamble for UL super rare stuff in mining and hunting... but considering that if MU on everything gonna drop in long term, players playing EU will also drop, because i think most deposits and plays EU in a hope of bright future, lucky loot and finding strategies using item MU to play longer with their monthly bugged for EU. As if player base falls, uber item prices also falls, as there will be less players wishing to purchase it, not just because they are less, but also because they dont see big point invest big money for item to get eco hunting/mining as loot have tiny or no MU at all.

Some say ... go craft week or 2 and see how cool it is to craft cheap ... sure u can say it... but why i should do it if i wanna hunt or mine, i dont like craft! We all use professions we like.

As long as such EP Bp`s exist with TT resources economy will be going just down in long term, as most part of PED cycles in economy will be TT>Nanocube>EP + RES>TT>NANO ..... other economy can not gain of it at all to gain some growth.

MA should focus to keep MU at some level, to dont piss off existing players, and focus on bringing in new ones to expand player base and economy and there are several ways of doing it, but MA looks in just existing box, not outside it. "Good" move MA ... in short term you made crafters and some hunters/miners happy but in long term you gave super huge punch to EU economy!

I will give another 2 weeks chance of EU and then will see that or leave again... and only as far i know that some tried return to EU and felt and seen same as me now and left again by saying "lets see again after a year ... maybe".

Cheers mates, EU is not only thing we can do

MysterLV said:

Entropia economy if based just on any items MU, as we know TT profit isnt possible in long term and what covers part of loses is MU and the second main thing is that MU comes from supply and demand, and also if there is no demand there is no MU at all. If there is no MU we got regular MMORP where you just sell to NPC (TT) all your loot. There we losing EU as RCE.

Click to expand...

It's a bit of misunderstanding to think that high MU always is good, because in the end the MU is pay by the players.

Which of these situations is the best:
1: A gun is selling for a MU of 200%, the resources to craft them have a MU of 150%
or
2: The gun is selling for a MU of 150%, the resources to craft the gun have a MU of 125%

For a miner case 1 is the best, for a hunter and crafter case 2 is the best.
But at the same-time we need markup in the game, the question is what is the best balance, higher MU is not always the best answer.

billairboy said:

It's a bit of misunderstanding to think that high MU always is good, because in the end the MU is pay by the players.

Click to expand...

Im not about high MU on all ... im about that MU nowdays is very low
- for miner it is ranging from 102-109% and for few 117%+
- for hunters its even less
- for crafters now it is cheap to craft, craft using TT (NanoC) and also regular crafted stuff got low MU

For all MU is low and will get lower and lower. No need to have overprices MU ... MU comes from supply and demand (we all know it) ... supply just rises and rises ... demand just drops and drops, it`s stagnating and just losing economy im talking about.

MU is paid by players, yes thats right, but as it is paid by player MA shouldn't to much care, because it is not her pocket ... normal level MU witch is changing depending on market state of specific item and supplies needed also drives all economy, what you all understand and what is needed for RCE game.

MU for all items ~103% is bad, 150% to high... normal MU for average item/resource should range from 110% to 130% and falling and rising out of those borders depends from various events, activity and various circumstances.

Economy need various resource and item consumption, item production, items using, trading and any other activity, what keeps market alive with a grow and drop cycles... activity is need for game.

Look at any mined resource year graphs, look at regularly used crafted weapons, tools, look at demanded (before) hunter looted stuff year graphs and you see how situation changes in few months after EP Bp`s introduction, you dont need to very smart to see a picture, sales and market value trends are straight down directions for all such items, with a few exceptions. That hits all ... hunters and miners... and also crafters who now skill for TT and gain her "happy skilling" for un-demanded possible item crafting in some future.

I looked around for situations irl with oversupply and sinking demand.
One classical example was the coffee crisis and the solution to this was an agreement by UN in the

International Coffee Agreements of 1962, 1968, 1976, 1983, 1994 and 2001.

Click to expand...

A quote from the description of the film BLACK GOLD

The International Coffee Agreements were the most successful effort to control coffee supply to date. From the 1960s to 1989, they stabilized the market and stalled a decline in prices. The agreements included both importing and exporting countries, limited excess supplies using a quota system, implemented price controls and promoted an increase in coffee consumption. The first agreements helped to strengthen the economies of coffee-producing countries in Africa and Latin America.

Click to expand...

This was solved by using production quotas to regulate the market.
Something also supported by economists.

Same for the coffee producers applies to us who supply commodities in EU.
But the only ones who could regulate the market and stimulate consumtion is Mindark.

If nothing is done and the decline continues I am pretty shure many of us will leave, as the basic idea of the economy was not to pay and loose to supply the market. How can we suppliers keep supplying if we are supposed to loose day in and day out? I know I am not interested.

So how could a regulation be imlemented in EU?
Maybe a stacking function in the auction and an announcement when a supplier can expect his commodities to be published in the auction system.

If the supplier thinks this would take to long time it would encourage him/her to sell on the street.
And street selling would not be regulated.
The system itself auto balance the supply in this way.

I know many would hate a system like this but oversupply when demand is so low sucks for the economy.

I will add one more thing with a famous text ppl use often "you have to adapt", what is plain true, BUT if economy goes down it is hard to adapt to dieing economy then to growing one!

Every player or very most of them play game investing, depositing and doing some activity for rising his avatar value in some way like items, skills, peds, services, LA`s, CLD etc with a hope of minimizing loses, stable play in his budget margins, profit or getting rich and etc ... no matter your goals and what and how you wanna be in this universe it all needs living, growing and healthy economy, what is bases on supply and demand what regulates MU naturally.

MA and planet partners with their actions in various ways can affect economy, every change will make some happy some mad ... but goal is keep economy stable and get new players to game.

There are some ho seek just hofs and uber loots, there are ppl playing eco and care stable tt return, we all can change professions, change strategies, routines and anything as long as there is economy not just TT and you.

I can compare EP BP`s with nanocube implementation as global EU devaluation in a hidden scheme and maybe thats goal of MA in after year or 2 or more they remove it ... but wont it will be to late?