NEWSFLASH: Posting auctions with crazy prices is ILLEGAL

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Whining Skeptic Aboard
Edit: Got a reply from support and Turns out I am an idiot, that I am completely wrong and that my interpretation of the ToU is reaaaaallly wrong. Happy scamming! Lock has been requested.

Hey people,

From time to time, there pops up threads about auction scams. Most often the conclusion "Dishonest but not illegal" is drawn from a big part of the playerbase, but guess what? YOU ARE WRONG!

I present to you, the Entropia Universe Account Terms of Use, a.k.a ToU.

Here is part 8c:

c. You cannot interfere with any other Participants ability to use and enjoy the Entropia Universe.

Raping someone in the ass by posting dishonest auctions, does exactly that. BUT WAIT! Lets move on toooo 8G:

g. You may not use the Entropia Universe to engage in any misleading or deceptive activity.

8O:

o. You may not interfere in any way with the virtual economy of Entropia Universe and/or with other Participants’ ability to use or enjoy the auction system or any other trading system in Entropia Universe. The foregoing includes, without limitations, the prohibition of manipulation or cause to manipulate statistical data, directly or indirectly. This prohibitions includes, without limitation, prohibition of price manipulation and/or price fixing regarding virtual items on the auction system.

Right, started reporting everyone who engages in this for breaching these three rules. I advice everyone of you others to do so as well. Now, lets never have that discussion again: Posting 1 CLD for the price of 10 breaches all three rules above, which means MA disapproves of it and it is possible to get BANNED for it. It is wrong in every single way.

Furthermore, if your sale goes through you breach another part of the ToU. If you brag about it on PCF, you break two more.

Good night!
 
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Got CLD for 15k?
 
Got CLD for 15k?

Nope. I just hate the twats that tries to scam people. And I would also like to point out that the ToU which every player read, understood and accepted (right?) clearly forbids this sort of activities.
 
You interfere with other Participants ability to enjoy the Entropia Universe through scamming other Participants :)
 
You interfere with other Participants ability to enjoy the Entropia Universe through scamming other Participants :)

Yes, and scamming would also fall under misleading and deceptive activities.
 
Nope. I just hate the twats that tries to scam people. And I would also like to point out that the ToU which every player read, understood and accepted (right?) clearly forbids this sort of activities.

Look at this from other side - it's still part of our "freedom" in current "EU economy".

And by the way, using ToU and EULA - everyone can be banned in split second. ToU and EULA is just instruments.
 
Look at this from other side - it's still part of our "freedom" in current "EU economy".

And by the way, using ToU and EULA - everyone can be banned in split second. ToU and EULA is just instruments.

Nope, it is not part of the freedom in the EU economy as it clearly is prohibited by the ToU. Not only in one place, but several.

Edit: Sure, one could stretch the ToU and EULA to get everyone banned, I get what you mean, but in this case it is mentioned in three different places and there is no grey zone; The activities are all covered by the three rules mentioned in the OP.
 
I am against people intentionally misleading others, especially into costly mistakes.

However, I do not agree with the interpretation in post #1.

Posting an auction with a silly price does not interfere with another participants ability to play/enjoy the game.
Buying an item with a silly price does interfere with your own ability to play/enjoy the game.

Posting an auction with a silly price is not directly misleading or deceptive. (the item and price are both publicly listed)
However, posting an auction with a silly price can be indirectly misleading or deceptive. (the only one of the 3 that comes close imo)

Posting an auction with a silly price does not effect the economy.
Buying an item with a silly price does however effect the economy.


I am not saying it isn't an issue, and it would be nice to see it addressed and a good solution come up with. But it is not something that is 'reportable' under the current rules as I see them.


edit:
The buyer reviews on Amazon for this tv might explain it better?
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN85S...d=1425499824&sr=1-1&keywords=samsung+smart+tv
 
Nope, it is not part of the freedom in the EU economy as it clearly is prohibited by the ToU. Not only in one place, but several.

Edit: Sure, one could stretch the ToU and EULA to get everyone banned, I get what you mean, but in this case it is mentioned in three different places and there is no grey zone; The activities are all covered by the three rules mentioned in the OP.

I can right away log in and make several screenshots where one person constantly pricefixing with his alts.

And?

That person was for sure checked by sending IDs of his "brothers", "mothers" and "hamsters". MA can't proove anything in that case.

Stop fight with windmills and go click some explosives.
 
aren't you interfering with any other Participants ability to use and enjoy the Entropia Universe by getting people banned for putting up silly auction prices? (smile.jpg)
 
I am against people intentionally misleading others, especially into costly mistakes.

However, I do not agree with the interpretation in post #1.

Posting an auction with a silly price does not interfere with another participants ability to play/enjoy the game.
Buying an item with a silly price does interfere with your own ability to play/enjoy the game.

Posting an auction with a silly price is not directly misleading or deceptive. (the item and price are both publicly listed)
However, posting an auction with a silly price can be indirectly misleading or deceptive. (the only one of the 3 that comes close imo)

Posting an auction with a silly price does not effect the economy.
Buying an item with a silly price does however effect the economy.


I am not saying it isn't an issue, and it would be nice to see it addressed and a good solution come up with. But it is not something that is 'reportable' under the current rules as I see them.


edit:
The buyer reviews on Amazon for this tv might explain it better?
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN85S...d=1425499824&sr=1-1&keywords=samsung+smart+tv

There is a distinct difference between posting an auction with a stupid price, and posting an auction with a misleading price in order to scam people. The OP is about the later.
 
c. You cannot interfere with any other Participants ability to use and enjoy the Entropia Universe.

Raping someone in the ass by posting dishonest auctions, does exactly that. BUT WAIT! Lets move on toooo 8G:
You are not interfering if they (other participant) buy or sell, they are interfering their ability, otherwise every trade could be counted as that if buyer/seller regrets the deal later. You are just providing them ways to interfere their own gameplay.

g. You may not use the Entropia Universe to engage in any misleading or deceptive activity.

This is like saying Buy apartment on Foma and you get 50% of LA incomes from it. And yeah it should be punishable. if you say you are selling 1 deed at price of 10, you are not misleading anyone.

o. You may not interfere in any way with the virtual economy of Entropia Universe and/or with other Participants’ ability to use or enjoy the auction system or any other trading system in Entropia Universe. The foregoing includes, without limitations, the prohibition of manipulation or cause to manipulate statistical data, directly or indirectly. This prohibitions includes, without limitation, prohibition of price manipulation and/or price fixing regarding virtual items on the auction system.

This one also takes 2 persons to do, so if you are alone you cannot manipulate prices (buyers do that). So i think this point is more about avatars buying items at high prices with one avatar ,then trading back to original and relisting at manipulated price (like was done with level 1 (L) bp (L) by one of wellknown crafters.)



To conclude :
You will not be banned for listing items at 10x regular markup, as it is free economy, where buyer determines the price. IF you and buyer work together to cheat others, then yes you should be punished.
Selling item at 10 or even 100 times the markup is not against any of these EULA points. (i am against ppl who do it, BUT i am even more against MA dictating prices which you can ask for certain items.)
 
edit:
The buyer reviews on Amazon for this tv might explain it better?
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN85S...d=1425499824&sr=1-1&keywords=samsung+smart+tv

Lol thanks...now I will get nothing done the rest of my work day because of a $40k tv...this is too funny to stop reading.

My favorites so far are:
By
Michael Leichter - See all my reviews
This review is from: Samsung UN85S9 Framed 85-Inch 4K Ultra HD 120Hz 3D Smart LED TV (Electronics)
Won the lotto. Got 50 k. Ordered this bad boy. Refresh rate was only 120hz. They wouldn't refund it so I use it as a table for my $10,000 worth of blow

and

By
Incredibly Average - See all my reviews
This review is from: Samsung UN85S9 Framed 85-Inch 4K Ultra HD 120Hz 3D Smart LED TV (Electronics)
Awesome deal, but I'm going to wait to shop with a bunch of my friends so they can help me carry it. Where can I find one in Ferguson, MO?

(in case you are not from america, Ferguson is where a bunch of looting took place recently in response to an officer killing an unarmed criminal)
 
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Lol thanks...now I will get nothing done the rest of my work day because of a $40k tv...this is too funny to stop reading.

My favorite so far is:
By
Michael Leichter - See all my reviews
This review is from: Samsung UN85S9 Framed 85-Inch 4K Ultra HD 120Hz 3D Smart LED TV (Electronics)
Won the lotto. Got 50 k. Ordered this bad boy. Refresh rate was only 120hz. They wouldn't refund it so I use it as a table for my $10,000 worth of blow

Is it bad that I thought of you when I read that one the first time?
 

You are doing the same mistake as Narfi; There is a difference between posting an item with a high BO, and posting an item with a high BO with the intent to capitalize on someones mistake. The latter breaches all three rules.
 
This game needs a warning....

Warning If you can't take the time to read and check things out before you do any activity within this game, then this game is not for you.
Warning you need to be awake before you play.
Warning don't drink and use the auction.
Warning playing this game without engaging your brain can lead to whining on forums.
Warning borrowing/lending is the fastest way to lose peds.
Warning if it's too good to be true, it most likely is.
Warning if your soc mates brother/sister/mother/dog/cat/goldfish (that last one gets them every time) needs peds.... DONT FUCKING GIVE THEM ANY!!!!......

Etc,etc,etc..............

Give a man/women (equal rights) a fish, they'll eat for a day.
Teach them to fish, they'll eat for the rest of their lives. (Warning this last advise can be circumvented by stealing or over fishing)

hmm maybe a short version... Please, for the love of what ever deity you chose, think before you act.

Common sense as change is better then ten bucks found on the ground... Alien says... :yup:

Yes it's dirty play, but the only fool is the one who fools themselves.
 
You are doing the same mistake as Narfi; There is a difference between posting an item with a high BO, and posting an item with a high BO with the intent to capitalize on someones mistake. The latter breaches all three rules.

How do you conclude that ? I cant see anything written about that. Furthermore intent cannot be proved.

1 point you posted is about interfering, you are not interfering at all, no matter what is your intent.
2 point is about misleading.. if you list item with quantity SHOWING 1 and ask price higher than normal, it is not misleading. Misleading would be saying Here is sell you 10, but instead you add 1 (p2p trades)
3 point is about market manipulation which takes 2 parties to do.
 
You are doing the same mistake as Narfi; There is a difference between posting an item with a high BO, and posting an item with a high BO with the intent to capitalize on someones mistake. The latter breaches all three rules.

Perhaps look up the biblical definition of adultery.
All have sinned.

Every single person who posts an auction chooses their prices based on some sort of 'intent' to maximize their profits (aka. 'deceiving' the buyer into buying their listing instead of the others)

Things that can be used to trick the buyer into buying your listing include such simple things as,

  • Repair Status
  • Time of day listed
  • Length of listing
  • Day of week listed
  • Day of week ending
  • Number of the same item in auction
  • Number of similar items in auction
  • Level of item
  • Demand for the item
  • Supply status of the item
  • Starting Bid value
  • Ending Bid value (or lack of one)
  • Etc....

Each and every one of those are parts of strategies used by every single player who lists an auction with the intent of getting the most PED or the fastest PED for their item.

I don't like the practice of listing an item with the decimal place moved one or more to the right of what would normally be expected and feel it is dishonest. However unless the auction shows an item listed for one price, but when purchased removes more than shown from your card, I do not feel it is reportable.

*I do think that if you can not contact the seller through in game means, that it would be ok to use support to send them a message asking if it was a mistake and if they would be willing to refund you some of your loss.
 
This game needs a warning....

Warning If you can't take the time to read and check things out before you do any activity within this game, then this game is not for you.
Warning you need to be awake before you play.
Warning don't drink and use the auction.
Warning playing this game without engaging your brain can lead to whining on forums.
Warning borrowing/lending is the fastest way to lose peds.
Warning if it's too good to be true, it most likely is.
Warning if your soc mates brother/sister/mother/dog/cat/goldfish (that last one gets them every time) needs peds.... DONT FUCKING GIVE THEM ANY!!!!......

Etc,etc,etc..............

Give a man/women (equal rights) a fish, they'll eat for a day.
Teach them to fish, they'll eat for the rest of their lives. (Warning this last advise can be circumvented by stealing or over fishing)

hmm maybe a short version... Please, for the love of what ever deity you chose, think before you act.

Common sense as change is better then ten bucks found on the ground... Alien says... :yup:

Yes it's dirty play, but the only fool is the one who fools themselves.

How about just one warning: Don't post deceptive auctions.
 
i remeber there was some advertise on eu forum for new players not to be scamed. I tryed look again but no eu forum i guess it down
 
How about just one warning: Don't post deceptive auctions.

lol how do you determine that?
Selling apartment with million view for 1million peds.. is it deceptive or not? For those who dont value the view maybe yes.. for rich view loving mogul it is normal.

There is no such thing as deceptive auctions (atleast which can be proven), there are auctions where ppl ask price they want to get for it, thats it, they pay au fees for it.

EULA is about Market manipulation (manipulating market price to show tt+10k on tt+3 item, so you can sell your item at high price). Single sale can never be manipulation, manipulation would be if you post tt+3 item for tt+10k and ask soccies to buy it and give it back to you, and after that markup will be tt+5001,5 and you can sell it at manipulated price. One sale is not manipulation, it is just sale for the price buyer is willing to pay.
 
lol how do you determine that?
Selling apartment with million view for 1million peds.. is it deceptive or not? For those who dont value the view maybe yes.. for rich view loving mogul it is normal.

There is no such thing as deceptive auctions (atleast which can be proven), there are auctions where ppl ask price they want to get for it, thats it, they pay au fees for it.

EULA is about Market manipulation (manipulating market price to show tt+10k on tt+3 item, so you can sell your item at high price). Single sale can never be manipulation, manipulation would be if you post tt+3 item for tt+10k and ask soccies to buy it and give it back to you, and after that markup will be tt+5001,5 and you can sell it at manipulated price. One sale is not manipulation, it is just sale for the price buyer is willing to pay.

The example that's obvious is:

CLD x 10 - 15,000 PED
CLD x 10 - 15,000 PED
CLD x 01 - 15,000 PED
 
This statement is best sung to the rhythm of "The Camptown Lady" sometimes also referred to as "the Camptown Races"

Enjoy this clip of cinematic gold if you need to hear how it goes:


Gonna make an alt so I can do this
doo-da doo-da,
Gonna make an alt so I can do this
all the doo-da day!

Let's all make alts so all can do this
doo-da doo-da,
Let's all make alts so all can do this
all the doo-da day!

Then the dummys will see how bad it is
doo-da doo-da,
And the dummys can see people getting fucked
all the doo-da day!

Cuz lots of people will accidentally bid
doo-da doo-da,
And quit the game and trash it on the forums
All the doo-da day!

Then MA will be like "WTF"?
Doo-da doo-da,
"We should have fixed this long ago,
but we were being doo-da gay!"
 
The example that's obvious is:

CLD x 10 - 15,000 PED
CLD x 10 - 15,000 PED
CLD x 01 - 15,000 PED
Yep a good example of where taking your time and checking before you act would save you some time and anguish!

Again dirty play, but if you choose number three, you either have too much money, drugs/alcohol, or can't be arsed to take the time to read. They teach this in grade school!

I'm not trying to start a fight with you, I'm saying when do we stop trying to coddle people and teach them to think first! This game deals with real money, if people can't grasp that their decisions in this game has consequences, then some people need to rethink their involvement in it!

I check my change at the store before I leave. I check prices of items I wish to buy... I did lots of research, found mentors, and took my time learning this game before deposited one cent. I think this should be a noobs first test before you can create an account in this game. Maybe this should be added to the beginners area?!

Sigh.... Sorry I digress....
 
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There is a distinct difference between posting an auction with a stupid price, and posting an auction with a misleading price in order to scam people. The OP is about the later.

The problem is, can you prove it's the latter?
 
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