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Is buying PED from other players via PayPal legal or illegal?

Hypnotyk

Hypnotyk

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Just curious to see how this works.. it seems some players are selling items for real life cash via paypal or other methods, so would buying PED be legal as well (albeit unsecure and not defended/encouraged by MindArk?)

EDIT:
==============================================
Original Support Case sent by me:

Hello.

I was approached by an intriguining offer by *********** to sell me PED for USD ($) via paypal. I read through the ToS and found this statement under section 6.1. Transactions between Avatars:

"You acknowledge that any transaction regarding Virtual Items, including PED, carried out using any service or system other than one of MindArk’s Approved Transaction systems is at Your own risk."

I interpreted as purchasing PED in game outside of the game is legal as long as both parties understand it is at their own risk. However, I do not want to get terminated if I am mistaken so I am being as transparent as I can be regarding this situation. If this was against the EULA, I understand that the 1000 PED that was purchased may be revoked from my account. I am asking for clarification on this transaction and to see if I am in compliance (or breaching) the EULA.

The transaction occured on Entropia Universe time: 2015-03-04 03:39:01 with Avatar ********* just outside of Camp Icarus.

Best regards.
-Hyp

==============================================

Official MA response:
Thank you for contacting us,

Purchasing PED outside the game or from anyone else than MindArk is against the EULA, we take this very seriously since it

We appreciate your honesty in asking this question and we hope you understand our rules against this, In this instance we have decided to not take any actions against you.

So we kindly ask you to not do this again, If we suspect any similar transactions from this account in the future you risk having it banned permanently.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind regards,
Kriss | Entropia Universe Support

==============================================
 
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what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas
 
- It can go alright.

- It can happen that in the end one party may accuse the other of scamming as no in-game logs show the whole trade.

- The one that has paid via PayPal may get his money back from the receiving PayPal account after receiving items or ped, claiming nothing was received to PayPal support.

Own risk.
 
Luckycharm said:
- It can go alright.

- It can happen that in the end one party may accuse the other of scamming as no in-game logs show the whole trade.

- The one that has paid via PayPal may get his money back from the receiving PayPal account after receiving items or ped, claiming nothing was received to PayPal support.

Own risk.
Click to expand...

I understand the risk, but is it legal or illegal? That is the answer I am looking to get...
 
I think there is no problem on MA/EULA side.
Your problem is: Can you thrust the other person.
When the other person has "bad PEDs" you will have no more money and no more PEDs.

"Bad PEDs" can be generated with stolen creditcards, ingame scams or some other bad activity where MA thinks they are not legit.
 
Just read that:
http://legal.entropiauniverse.com/legal/card-fraud-policy.xml

The interesting part:
Do not accept holding PED for another participant, or transferring PED to another avatar. There is a risk that these are stolen PED, and that your Account will be used in a money laundry attempt.
Do not buy PED through any source not directly connected to Entropia Universe. Sources directly connected to Entropia Universe include in-game transactions and transactions through the dedicated planet web sites (Planet Roster site); the PED Card System integrated by MindArk is the only authorized way to exchange your real world funds to PED. If you are offered to purchase PED through any other source be aware that these transactions are not authorized and these PED usually originate from card frauds.
Click to expand...

I read this as:you can buy PEDs from other sources but there is the risk of getting bad PEDs
 
I think this makes it clear:
http://legal.entropiauniverse.com/legal/terms-of-use.xml?plang=en&cd=y
6.1. Transactions between Avatars

The Entropia Universe provides You with trading administration services (including the Auction System service, the Shop Systems services, Avatar Direct Trade System services etc) that enables You to carry out secure transactions with others, in which participating parts can exchange Virtual Items and Real World Items (the "Approved Transaction").

Please notice that transactions concerning payment for Virtual Items, including PED, outside the Entropia Universe often involve fraudulent activities. You acknowledge that any transaction regarding Virtual Items, including PED, carried out using any service or system other than one of MindArk’s Approved Transaction systems is at Your own risk. MindArk reserves the right to take any reasonably necessary measures for the purpose of preventing and acting against frauds and non-Approved Transactions, including, but not limited to, making a reservation against a suspected Transaction, and Banning and/or Terminating a directly or indirectly involved Account, if MindArk determines that the transaction was not performed in compliance to this Agreement.

MindArk acknowledges the responsibility to maintain records on all transactions with Virtual Items via MindArk's Approved Transaction systems. You agree that MindArk's transaction records shall be conclusive proof of the transaction carried out via Your Account.

You acknowledge Your responsibility to keep track of any and all transactions with Virtual Items involving Your Account. MindArk accepts no responsibility for misplaced or misused Virtual Items in any incidence, regardless of reason.
Click to expand...
 
As others already said, on your own risk

I wouldn´t do it, better buy PED directly from MA (deposit!)
 
We can use PayPal to deposit now so why even bother risking it?
 
Aliana said:
We can use PayPal to deposit now so why even bother risking it?
Click to expand...

Probably in an effort to dodge the fees on larger transactions such as 10,000 ped or even more for certain UL items.
 
Aliana said:
We can use PayPal to deposit now so why even bother risking it?
Click to expand...

I think this is probably the best answer.

There were instances in years gone by that people had money in their paypal account (good Ebay seller) but couldn't deposit (for various reasons inc not having a credit card) and so paypal payments were made.

Since Paypal is now an allowed deposit method, for the security of both buyer and seller, it would make sense to trade only with in-game Ped unless both can meet face to face and be within a reasonable distance from each other. At that point it is at each persons own personal risk.
 
Do some research on the forum. If someone buys PEDs with a stolen credit card and you buy them from that person, expect your account to be locked. They really don't seem to have much of a sense of humor about that sort of thing and they typically lock everyone's account who was involved.

That being said, I did buy out another player long ago, using PayPal. It was someone that had been playing for quite a while and I had been talking to him about it for long enough that I knew it wasn't a hacked account. And the transaction was for skills and items only, he kept his PEDs.

So, it comes down to how well you know the other person and how much you are willing to trust them.
 
money money moeny....
 
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Hypnotyk said:
Just curious to see how this works.. it seems some players are selling items for real life cash via paypal or other methods, so would buying PED be legal as well (albeit unsecure and not defended/encouraged by MindArk?)
Click to expand...

As some people say, u can get banned if the PEDs was scammed.



I wonder what did happen with the people that bought peds from the hacked accounts.
 
The idea of transactions outside of EU is unnecessary in my opinion, regardless of it being illegal or legal, acceptable or otherwise etc. Both parties have access to a range of different depositing methods (whether it's PayPal, credit or debit card, bank transfer, Netller etc) so there's little point running the risk of doing it another way.

All transactions via your own account or via the transfer centre in-game give you peace of mind that records will be kept and you should get at least some degree of support to resolve issues.

There are some instances of course when it might be necessary. However, anything involving significant amount of money should be on MindArk's or the Support's team radar anyway and they should have visibility of those transactions. Better safe than sorry!

:twocents:
 
It is legal. But risky :)
I think no risk for you, if you are an honest player and wish to sell your PED's to people which trust you.
But there is a risk if you buy them from someone else (PED's, recieved from scam)
 
If seller accepts paypal, list me up, nice easy scam.
I get mod fap, seller gets nothing (as i would use paypal refunding system, as you cannot prove that you have given me the product)

DONT EVER NEVER trade virtual items with paypal.
 
I really think MA needs to make it easier for players to deposit without losing so much money.
 
I would really like to know this also,

Could we get a official statement so that no one is banned for not knowing what the policy is concerning this.

I am not for or against it though id like to know what options are out there.
 
I'll just meet you down at the bar, in the alley, and we can exchange PEDs for cash there (at night). Ybor City is safe enough lol
 
Rocket192 said:
Probably in an effort to dodge the fees on larger transactions such as 10,000 ped or even more for certain UL items.
Click to expand...

Then there's the option of a direct bank transfer to MA.
 
The big problem isn't the depositing, it's the withdrawal. It's kind of silly. You deposit a big chunk of cash to buy something and pay to deposit it. Then the other person has to request a withdrawal, wait forever, and pay another fee to get the money out.

If the person is selling off their stuff to raise money or leave the game, the fees are annoying, but the delay is very problematic. MA really needs to get that worked out soon.
 
Rave said:
I'll just meet you down at the bar, in the alley, and we can exchange PEDs for cash there (at night). Ybor City is safe enough lol
Click to expand...

Does this involve sexual favors? If so, then I want a 1.5x rate!
 
whiteknut said:
If seller accepts paypal, list me up, nice easy scam.
I get mod fap, seller gets nothing (as i would use paypal refunding system, as you cannot prove that you have given me the product)

DONT EVER NEVER trade virtual items with paypal.
Click to expand...


recording the trade would be good enough proof
 
Rumsponge said:
If the person is selling off their stuff to raise money or leave the game, the fees are annoying, but the delay is very problematic. MA really needs to get that worked out soon.
Click to expand...

I think delays and other mechanism like fees are required to make the transactions a less "smoothly". Why? Because if it would be too fast and easy to transfer money through the EU system the risk that it would be used as a system to transfer money. We don't want groups like IS, Al Qaeda or criminals to transfer money through the game. Delaying and fees make that a bit more unlikely. So don't buy ped and items "off line", it can be IS you are paying :silly2:
 
Aliana said:
We can use PayPal to deposit now so why even bother risking it?
Click to expand...

Rocket192 said:
Probably in an effort to dodge the fees on larger transactions such as 10,000 ped or even more for certain UL items.
Click to expand...

For regular depositor with avg amount - it doesn't make sense of course, and too risky.

But what if I will decide to just dump all my shit, by obvious reasons? And including skills? And I don't like to mess with all those stupid ESI's and etc? Yes, you read right - direct ava sale.

What if I will found some big reseller with understanding of the prices, potentials and risks, and we will arrange that deal through 3rd well-known guarantee, including real IDs sharing, and etc?

And in case of direct trade thru bank transfer - I will just drop off 10%-20% from final price?

In the end, I will get less money, but not in idiotic 3 month withdrawal period, and reseller getting nice potential profit?
 
dr3w said:
For regular depositor with avg amount - it doesn't make sense of course, and too risky.

But what if I will decide to just dump all my shit, by obvious reasons? And including skills? And I don't like to mess with all those stupid ESI's and etc? Yes, you read right - direct ava sale.

What if I will found some big reseller with understanding of the prices, potentials and risks, and we will arrange that deal through 3rd well-known guarantee, including real IDs sharing, and etc?

And in case of direct trade thru bank transfer - I will just drop off 10%-20% from final price?

In the end, I will get less money, but not in idiotic 3 month withdrawal period, and reseller getting nice potential profit?
Click to expand...

In the end the risk for you is a million times bigger and you have NO help whatsoever from Mindark. Ive seen similar setups earlier and a few of them have been painfull/expensive lessons for the seller. We can cry all day here on the forum for long withdrawal times but those peds are safe.......the minute you move outside the game its not safe and you all are prolly thinking "it wont happen to me" but unfortunately thats the reason theres still scammers around :)

I usually like what you write but dont encourage people to be more stupid then necessary
 
krogfan said:
In the end the risk for you is a million times bigger and you have NO help whatsoever from Mindark. Ive seen similar setups earlier and a few of them have been painfull/expensive lessons for the seller. We can cry all day here on the forum for long withdrawal times but those peds are safe.......the minute you move outside the game its not safe and you all are prolly thinking "it wont happen to me" but unfortunately thats the reason theres still scammers around :)
Click to expand...

The thing is - I don't need any help from MA. Actually what I need from them - is less their existence in their current form. (smile.jpg)

And also, before doing something - I do some "calcs" for risks which I can take.

So, when I came to understanding how things works (first half-year of playing) and saw withdrawal times (was some 1.5 month that time or so), and after reading EULA, especially - I understood, that in case of Falling Skies™ scenario - everyone is fucked. No one will get their money, basically.

I instantly put for myself simple rule "I lost it all already, I don't have it". It's all just pixels which I love, just some bytes in MA's database. I just have some POTENTIAL to convert them (after 3 month of waiting) to some bytes in database of my bank, and then - to some real paper which is called money, in case of cash. Close to reality, but still paper. (smile.jpg)

Actually all my moves in EU including scenario "I am already dead", and I am aware of it.

Same will be in that case too - I am aware of potential "pain". I will just do some precautions, and there will be always chance of scam - and I am aware of it. And in case of fuckup - I am aware - I just lost my pixels and my POTENTIAL MONEY.

I will not go to PCF and will not create crying thread, or stuff like that, in case of fuckup.

krogfan said:
I usually like what you write but dont encourage people to be more stupid then necessary
Click to expand...

Of course, "don't try it at home", I would never recommend this to anyone as "safe" way.

I just point at possibility to sell PEDs to someone cheaper than MA does, and tried to explain benefits for both sides of deal, and scam of course isn't included in it.
 
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