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Is buying PED from other players via PayPal legal or illegal?

whiteknut said:
If seller accepts paypal, list me up, nice easy scam.
I get mod fap, seller gets nothing (as i would use paypal refunding system, as you cannot prove that you have given me the product)

DONT EVER NEVER trade virtual items with paypal.
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years ago there was quite big scam. If i remember ETIOPIA lost ModMerc cos he/she sold it via paypall and buyer used that "refunding" system to get his money back.
 
KullXP said:
I would really like to know this also,

Could we get a official statement so that no one is banned for not knowing what the policy is concerning this.

I am not for or against it though id like to know what options are out there.
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Not sure if this is clear enough, but this is how I would interprete it:

If you do item trades with out-of-game payment, don't ever complain if you get scammed, or if MA in one of the rare cases reverses the trade.

If you make a type of trade that goes "on your own risk", for instance you get a huge pile of PEDs ingame from someone you don't trust 100%, don't ever complain if your account gets locked.

A rule of thumb: If the person you're trading with doesn't sit next to you and you haven't seen their photo ID, don't do it.

And when I say "ever" I mean "ever".
 
aia said:
Not sure if this is clear enough, but this is how I would interprete it:

If you do item trades with out-of-game payment, don't ever complain if you get scammed, or if MA in one of the rare cases reverses the trade.

If you make a type of trade that goes "on your own risk", for instance you get a huge pile of PEDs ingame from someone you don't trust 100%, don't ever complain if your account gets locked.

A rule of thumb: If the person you're trading with doesn't sit next to you and you haven't seen their photo ID, don't do it.

And when I say "ever" I mean "ever".
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Dont you mean "never" :silly2:
 
Just an update, here is the result:


Thank you for contacting us,

Purchasing PED outside the game or from anyone else than MindArk is against the EULA, we take this very seriously since it

We appreciate your honesty in asking this question and we hope you understand our rules against this, In this instance we have decided to not take any actions against you.

So we kindly ask you to not do this again, If we suspect any similar transactions from this account in the future you risk having it banned permanently.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind regards,
Kriss | Entropia Universe Support
 
I think they missunderstood your request.

Sure it is not allowed to buy PEDs on another website than the website of MA.
Because MA is the one and only company that can generate PEDs.
Every other Website that offers PED could be a fraud.

But this does not prohibit to make a deal between 2 players.
If that is not the case then they should remove this part from there terms of use:
http://legal.entropiauniverse.com/legal/terms-of-use.xml?plang=en&cd=y
6.1. Transactions between Avatars

The Entropia Universe provides You with trading administration services (including the Auction System service, the Shop Systems services, Avatar Direct Trade System services etc) that enables You to carry out secure transactions with others, in which participating parts can exchange Virtual Items and Real World Items (the "Approved Transaction").

Please notice that transactions concerning payment for Virtual Items, including PED, outside the Entropia Universe often involve fraudulent activities. You acknowledge that any transaction regarding Virtual Items, including PED, carried out using any service or system other than one of MindArk’s Approved Transaction systems is at Your own risk. MindArk reserves the right to take any reasonably necessary measures for the purpose of preventing and acting against frauds and non-Approved Transactions, including, but not limited to, making a reservation against a suspected Transaction, and Banning and/or Terminating a directly or indirectly involved Account, if MindArk determines that the transaction was not performed in compliance to this Agreement.

MindArk acknowledges the responsibility to maintain records on all transactions with Virtual Items via MindArk's Approved Transaction systems. You agree that MindArk's transaction records shall be conclusive proof of the transaction carried out via Your Account.

You acknowledge Your responsibility to keep track of any and all transactions with Virtual Items involving Your Account. MindArk accepts no responsibility for misplaced or misused Virtual Items in any incidence, regardless of reason.
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Vlooe said:
I think they missunderstood your request.

Sure it is not allowed to buy PEDs on another website than the website of MA.
Because MA is the one and only company that can generate PEDs.
Every other Website that offers PED could be a fraud.

But this does not prohibit to make a deal between 2 players.
If that is not the case then they should remove this part from there terms of use:
http://legal.entropiauniverse.com/legal/terms-of-use.xml?plang=en&cd=y
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Good point and I referenced that section of the EULA in my support ticket but that is the response I received
 
Can you copy paste your question also?
 
whiteknut said:
Can you copy paste your question also?
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Sure.. here it is. I blocked out names for obvious reasons..


Hello.

I was approached by an intriguining offer by *********** to sell me PED for USD ($) via paypal. I read through the ToS and found this statement under section 6.1. Transactions between Avatars:

"You acknowledge that any transaction regarding Virtual Items, including PED, carried out using any service or system other than one of MindArk’s Approved Transaction systems is at Your own risk."

I interpreted as purchasing PED in game outside of the game is legal as long as both parties understand it is at their own risk. However, I do not want to get terminated if I am mistaken so I am being as transparent as I can be regarding this situation. If this was against the EULA, I understand that the 1000 PED that was purchased may be revoked from my account. I am asking for clarification on this transaction and to see if I am in compliance (or breaching) the EULA.

The transaction occured on Entropia Universe time: 2015-03-04 03:39:01 with Avatar ********* just outside of Camp Icarus.

Best regards.
-Hyp
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
They also seem to think you bought ped.... :dunce:
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We appreciate your honesty in asking this question and we hope you understand our rules against this, In this instance we have decided to not take any actions against you.

So we kindly ask you to not do this again, If we suspect any similar transactions from this account in the future you risk having it banned permanently.

All is clear I think.
 
dr3w said:
We appreciate your honesty in asking this question and we hope you understand our rules against this, In this instance we have decided to not take any actions against you.

So we kindly ask you to not do this again, If we suspect any similar transactions from this account in the future you risk having it banned permanently.

All is clear I think.
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I got the impression that he was just asking about it from his earlier posts, which is why I believed there had been a misunderstanding. However, upon Hypno sharing his original SC a few posts up, it became quite clear he had bought PED.
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
I got the impression that he was just asking about it from his earlier posts, which is why I believed there had been a misunderstanding. However, upon Hypno sharing his original SC a few posts up, it became quite clear he had bought PED.
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Yeah, and now if he will just trade PEDs to someone, he fucked? Or our gods have callbacks from paypal and other payment services outside EU?

Also, if I will trade with player ********* - I am also fucked, because now there is precedent with player *********, or he is already banned and my shiny ass is safe?

Or they just updated EULA, becasue there is nothing about "Purchasing PED outside the game or from anyone else than MindArk is against the EULA"?
 
Hypnotyk said:
I interpreted as purchasing PED in game outside of the game is legal as long as both parties understand it is at their own risk. However, I do not want to get terminated if I am mistaken so I am being as transparent as I can be regarding this situation. If this was against the EULA, I understand that the 1000 PED that was purchased may be revoked from my account. I am asking for clarification on this transaction and to see if I am in compliance (or breaching) the EULA.
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I understand what you intended to write, but the way this is written sounds more like you are discussing a scenario that actually happened rather than a hypothetical situation.

If the MA employ has English as a second language, this could contribute to confusion as well.

"regarding this situation," "the 1000 PED that was purchased, "clarification on this transaction," all sound like things that have happened already, not hypothetical.

Edit: nevermind, I didn't read the last paragraph, apparently a transaction HAD already happened. :p
 
Just for clarification purposes, yes I had already purchased the PED and submitted it afterwards. I did this with high risk and I decided to see what the outcome would be. This support case was opened IMMEDIATELY after the transaction happened and I didn't touch the PED I purchased until the support case was responded to, just in case they wanted to take it away and/or give me a ban.

I did this for two reasons:
1. i wanted to know MA's stance on purchase of peds/items outside of the game,
and
2. to get a clear answer if this was illegal or not.

I advise anyone to NOT repeat what I have done. My account could have been easily banned and/or deleted for doing this and I am grateful that MA responded in the way that they did. I learned my lesson and I hope this can clarify any doubts for others who might have been approached with a similar offer. Furthermore, I hope the EULA is updated after this instance because I believe that it is not clear. If the EULA clearly stated that BUYING ANY PED OUTSIDE OF THE GAME IS ILLEGAL, then I would not have bought it.

Anyways.. the decisions ultimately rests on your shoulders. If you want to risk buying PED, it's your call. I stuck my head out for myself (and everyone else), but I will never put my account at risk like this again. But if you want to do it anyways, good luck and pray you don't get locked/deleted for doing so.
 
Hypnotyk said:
Just for clarification purposes, yes I had already purchased the PED and submitted it afterwards. I did this with high risk and I decided to see what the outcome would be. This support case was opened IMMEDIATELY after the transaction happened and I didn't touch the PED I purchased until the support case was responded to, just in case they wanted to take it away and/or give me a ban.

I did this for two reasons:
1. i wanted to know MA's stance on purchase of peds/items outside of the game,
and
2. to get a clear answer if this was illegal or not.

I advise anyone to NOT repeat what I have done. My account could have been easily banned and/or deleted for doing this and I am grateful that MA responded in the way that they did. I learned my lesson and I hope this can clarify any doubts for others who might have been approached with a similar offer. Furthermore, I hope the EULA is updated after this instance because I believe that it is not clear. If the EULA clearly stated that BUYING ANY PED OUTSIDE OF THE GAME IS ILLEGAL, then I would not have bought it.

Anyways.. the decisions ultimately rests on your shoulders. If you want to risk buying PED, it's your call. I stuck my head out for myself (and everyone else), but I will never put my account at risk like this again. But if you want to do it anyways, good luck and pray you don't get locked/deleted for doing so.
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I'm glad you didn't get banned.

Cheers.
 
Rave said:
I'll just meet you down at the bar, in the alley, and we can exchange PEDs for cash there (at night). Ybor City is safe enough lol
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I've been in those alleys during Guavaween and felt totally safe :D
 
Another update, this guy was blatantly advertising that he wants to sell his ped for paypal. I jokingly replied and said 1000 ped and you give me it first, and he actually agreed. I lowballed him as much as I could and he actually traded me so I decided to risk it and if I got banned, I can reverse the paypal transaction while I work it out with MA. It seems I dodged a bullet but it is something I wouldn't do again..
 
Hypnotyk said:
Another update, this guy was blatantly advertising that he wants to sell his ped for paypal. I jokingly replied and said 1000 ped and you give me it first, and he actually agreed. I lowballed him as much as I could and he actually traded me so I decided to risk it and if I got banned, I can reverse the paypal transaction while I work it out with MA. It seems I dodged a bullet but it is something I wouldn't do again..
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So how much did you buy and how much did you pay for it?
 
billairboy said:
So how much did you buy and how much did you pay for it?
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As my SC states, I bought 1000 PED from the player. I don't want to state how much I paid for it.
 
Hypnotyk said:
As my SC states, I bought 1000 PED from the player. I don't want to state how much I paid for it.
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haha.. well, it's what you payed for it that is the interesting part.... I guess it's low enough that you should know it's something fishy about it, but bought it anyway? :silly2:
 
billairboy said:
haha.. well, it's what you payed for it that is the interesting part.... I guess it's low enough that you should know it's something fishy about it, but bought it anyway? :silly2:
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Buying PED in any way outside of the transfer interface provided by MindArk is fishy.. it wasn't a ridiculous price but it was a very good price in comparison to the $1 = 10 PED ratio offered by MA. The reasons he gave me sounded legit as to why he was selling at a discount, so I decided to take the gamble. I wouldn't do it again though..
 
Hypnotyk said:
Buying PED in any way outside of the transfer interface provided by MindArk is fishy.. it wasn't a ridiculous price but it was a very good price in comparison to the $1 = 10 PED ratio offered by MA. The reasons he gave me sounded legit as to why he was selling at a discount, so I decided to take the gamble. I wouldn't do it again though..
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Well, some players are screaming about hackers and scamers, other players helps them and buy their peds. You should not have bought them in the first place.....
 
billairboy said:
Well, some players are screaming about hackers and scamers, other players helps them and buy their peds. You should not have bought them in the first place.....
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Sure, I should have not but greed makes people do questionable things. Perhaps this is one of the cases.. like I said I wouldn't do it again and I am only sharing this with everyone else because I want the community to know the exact answer I received from MA.
 
I dont think its unusual that people sell peds for 15ped - 1usd.

... just saying :smoke:
 
Hypnotyk said:
Just curious to see how this works.. it seems some players are selling items for real life cash via paypal or other methods, so would buying PED be legal as well (albeit unsecure and not defended/encouraged by MindArk?)
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If a player give you an item(*) and you pay him direct from your paypal to his paypal, there is no risk, even if the item was stolen from someone. MA doesnt even see the money transaction, but a player giving his item away (thats not illegal, is it?)

Buying peds from another player is either not necessary or illegal. If they offer you peds at lower cost, its obviously illegal. Period. If you have to pay for it, whats the difference from depositing?


(*) Long time ago, when credit cards was the only option to deposit, I helped a soc member by selling him peds and he paid me using paypal. This is not longer necessary, but legally possible. MA will see a player giving away peds.
 
MA don't have any tools to confirm that it was indeed PED seling via outside service like paypal and against eula. They can only se transactions ingame. When you are stupid enough to risk buying PED's this way make sure u put in trade window 1 animal hide or basic leather extractor.....you can alway say then that it was trade :D
 
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