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How one small exploit ruined all Entropia market in 3 years.

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Ace Flyster said:
EVERYTHING recorded on loot indicates a random multiplier, and i believe, normal distribution. So yes, in that scenario, through exploits, you can have more out than in.

Rgds

Ace
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Again its no point in telling a donkey that the donkey is a stupid animal........

Unless youre an exploiter protecting your sneaky ass
 
Anyways, i am out of this argument now, and will leave it to others, i have no proof so further explanations are pointless.

Either way, it needs to be fixed and NOW, as people, whether you believe it is, avatars or MA, or both, are losing money/peds.

FIX IT MA

Rgds

Ace
 
Its still draining out other miners loot.

Whats more interesting is that one PL noob got 6 towers b4 event = appr 90-95 k loot using lvl 13's.

This noob stopped mining hrs prior to event only to start mining again after the winning claim was found by enigma....

Pretty interesting Id say.
 
Ace Flyster said:
EVERYTHING recorded on loot indicates a random multiplier, and i believe, normal distribution. So yes, in that scenario, through exploits, you can have more out than in.

Rgds

Ace
Click to expand...

A random multiplier with a certain roof/limit that is determined by the current pool. It would make ZERO sense for MA from a business standpoint to not program that safety net in. Why would they allow wiggleroom for the system to bankrupt them when they easily can make it foolproof.
 
Zetanian said:
A random multiplier with a certain roof/limit that is determined by the current pool. It would make ZERO sense for MA from a business standpoint to not program that safety net in. Why would they allow wiggleroom for the system to bankrupt them when they easily can make it foolproof.
Click to expand...

They didn't make it foolproof, see my post above.

Rgds

Ace

EDIT That really was my last post
 
Rave said:
Really am curious about this because I have seen some very strange EntropiaLife accounts, with avatars that are only a few weeks/months old that have a lot of loot. Some more than I have listed after 12 years.

And I would say the time line given fits with the decline in returns and such. I have no doubt that there are people exploiting, and I'm certain MA just doesn't care as long as it doesn't impede with their profits.
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exactly, or they just understood it wrong when received support cases.
 
Ace Flyster said:
Simple test, the basic multiplier for lv 13 you get on average on ores, 40-50ped, do this test with only 20 ped left on lv 13 amp and all 3 resources, and see what you get.

That is what i am interested in. As is being described here you can get hits on all three, so if the ores is 40, enmatter and treasure are both 40 ped each as well, then on average MA are paying out on 60 ped drop when only 20 ped is taken. Therefore MA will be losing money.

Rgds

Ace
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Thing is Ace there have been ava's hitting big that have nothing on tracker pre hit of late, that ped comes from somewhere and we can be damn sure not from MA.

Result is everyone suffers as a result most probably.

For MA profit - Deposits -Withdrawals - Ingame liabilities = Bottom line

So even if we don't suffer loot wise, more withdrawal than deposit means MA have to make up somewhere. Otherwise there is no money to withdraw if drain gets outta hand (which after this thread i'm sure will happen as more start using and abusing).

It dilutes and endangers everyones ingame assets, as if no money MA won't be able to honor ingame liabilities.

I'll say it again, Ma should take out legal proceedings against those withdraws resulting from use of this exploit and permaban all involved.
 
Ace Flyster said:
Simple test, the basic multiplier for lv 13 you get on average on ores, 40-50ped, do this test with only 20 ped left on lv 13 amp and all 3 resources, and see what you get.

That is what i am interested in. As is being described here you can get hits on all three, so if the ores is 40, enmatter and treasure are both 40 ped each as well, then on average MA are paying out on 60 ped drop when only 20 ped is taken. Therefore MA will be losing money.

Rgds

Ace
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Its the same thing as kim killing the hussk with his MA gun for 0 cost.. It can hit big or low and the peds are coming out of loot pool with nothing going into the pool in return. He did it once and distributed/laid down the peds on ground for people to pick up.

Ace Flyster said:
Easy, not so long ago, there was a bug and people where getting a tower with every hit after a vu on cnd. The loot algorithm screwed up.

Next argument?

Rgds

Ace
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That again came from the loot pool and not MA's pocket. There is nothing coming out of MA's pocket.. All the bugs/cheats etc drain the loot pool which in return affect the returns of the rest of EU.
 
fluske said:
i have no idea if huntingpool is shared with mining pool or that all professions have seperate lootpools or that lootpools even exist :)

but during that year where those 2 guys cleaned pool using ul level 13 amp that didnt use any decay,my inventory/storage page went down over 100k so including markup,i have never had such bad results ever
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when you go hunt and bring 10000 peds and reduce it to 4k in 3 days and then ath on mining appear, you still think that there is seperate 3 loot pools ? :)

i dont believe in ferry tails m8 , that is why my point of view is so dramatic.
 
Zetanian said:
A random multiplier with a certain roof/limit that is determined by the current pool. It would make ZERO sense for MA from a business standpoint to not program that safety net in. Why would they allow wiggleroom for the system to bankrupt them when they easily can make it foolproof.
Click to expand...

Bug is caused when something is not foolproof and while you can have checks in place it is virtually impossible to manage updating gaming platform with foolproof coding. Bugs are all about stuff that have bypassed MA's safety net. :)
 
Ace Flyster said:
I highly doubt this affected your tt returns at all. In fact this probably didnt affect ANYTHING for other avatars apart from possible artificial mu's.

It is more likely that only MA have been affected by this

Rgds

Ace
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sorry m8 but seems you do not readed my previews post how loot system works .

ma never pay anything more than there is in pool .
(you all put money to main pool, and then put your hands and drag money out, one drag more , other less, but there is only money that you all putted in, there is no more money from air.)
 
ktpsmf said:
i dont believe in ferry tails ...
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Finally I understood what you were trying to say with these two words. The words you are looking for is

fairy tales - referring to a fictive story.

A ferry is a boat taking passengers, vehicles etc across water, and a tail is what monkeys, rats etc have attached to the rear end.
 
No loose for MA and only for gamer in case of that?
So no new mining from my side, up to a official statement and a bux fix turned in :p

*I hope its not based on that mining event and it should not been based on that, more on the exploit with low TT lvl 13 amps.
 
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Nevermind.
 
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Divinity said:
OMFG.. Seriously.. Damn, i don't think many people knew about this shit. Most knew about the the lvl 13 ul bug but that too , we had no clue about how the hell do u put amp on an armor??

So all this has been told to MA for years and they still have done nothing.. Everyone should make a support case with this thread as link so it gets proper attention from MA.

To the OP : So you knew for 3 years and it took u that much time to tell this here or u just recently got this info? We all know "YOUR AVA" is not playing now.. However something tells me this is known/shared info by some major miners.

MA, burn em down..
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1. ma knew about it 3 years ago (unless does not understood my supports)\
2. it is highly not recomended to post or in other way inform society about exploits and how it works
3. by making this "ferry tail" i highly risk of being hated by community or mindark.
4. only reason i posted this is to make it fix "more faster"
 
I feel people are kinda over-reacted at this. This has been known for a looooooooooong while, but Mindark stated there's no personal loot pool, so even they got 60 ped spent registered at 20 ped decay they don't actually earn anything. And even you drop all 3 at the same time, you need to hit 2 claims to be benefits from this bug. And they need to decay the amp to 20 ped first, we all know how hurtful it is to mine with level 13 amps. I don't know, is it really that big of advantage to those who decay tons of level 13 amps to 20 ped and transfer to a new avatar?
 
MA should be able to fix this in 1 hour right?
 
imho
what is interesting, is what is the tt return of doing this long term.
if it is ~90%, omfg. if it is proportional to the actual value spent, who cares.
 
girtsn said:
imho
what is interesting, is what is the tt return of doing this long term.
if it is ~90%, omfg. if it is proportional to the actual value spent, who cares.
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If there wasn't a benefit that outweighed the possible punitive actions, do you think they would do it?

The 90% thing is still bs either way. Still annoyed when this is brought up.
 
Has the existence of loot pools as described in here ever been confirmed? If randomness is applied correctly, there is no use for one, which is why I am asking.
 
To add my 2 cents: different pools for different professions. No personal lootpool, but each ava has a 'counter' from which loot is calculated (dmg in hunt, 'efficiency' in mining and something 'almost like' TT put in in craft). What others said before, 95% of all spenditures goes into pool and we only get loot from the pool, nothing from MA.

Also idk why r ppl so upset, without repairable amps, its not really worth to exploit. For example : 13 amps 130% MU so even considering +-0 TT ret its still loss to do it. Ofc it still needs to be fixed asap
As for UL amp owners, doubt they would even risk their 100-300k peds of investment getting locked up by tryin doing this.
 
They are aware:

amp.jpg


amp2.jpg
 
ferry_tail-198x162_1.jpg


The fact you can seemingly decay an amp past 0.00 (provided it has less than 97 total uses) was known for a long time. There's however no proof those 'extra' drops are actually amped.

It certainly hasn't influenced returns in unamped mining (still 93...95% long term), why on a planet it should influence someone's hunting returns?
 
tamlin said:
Finally I understood what you were trying to say with these two words. The words you are looking for is

fairy tales - referring to a fictive story.

A ferry is a boat taking passengers, vehicles etc across water, and a tail is what monkeys, rats etc have attached to the rear end.
Click to expand...

thanx for fixing my english :)
+rep
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
Has the existence of loot pools as described in here ever been confirmed? If randomness is applied correctly, there is no use for one, which is why I am asking.
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Seeing as how EU acts as a casino, the likely hood of a "pool" isn't crazy. Think about slot machines, as this game basically is: the larger the "jackpot" in a slot grows, the more likely the player is to hit big when playing big. Once someone hits big on a slot, the likely hood of a repeat hit goes down dramatically until it replenishes it's value. A game can never pay out beyond what's in it.

I think the question, which has been brought up here, is how many "pools" are there? Does each profession act as a separate machine, or perhaps each area on the map is a different machine?
 
cyberflo said:
Its still draining out other miners loot.

Whats more interesting is that one PL noob got 6 towers b4 event = appr 90-95 k loot using lvl 13's.

This noob stopped mining hrs prior to event only to start mining again after the winning claim was found by enigma....

Pretty interesting Id say.
Click to expand...

a good way not to attract attention by the event security check assuming there is any. :scratch2:
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
Has the existence of loot pools as described in here ever been confirmed? If randomness is applied correctly, there is no use for one, which is why I am asking.
Click to expand...

This is all i could recall on loot pools

http://www.entropiauniverse.com/bulletin/buzz/2012/5/23/Developer-Notes---1.xml

BULLETIN
Latest Buzz
Developer Notes #1

This Entropia Universe Buzz article is the first in a new series of Developer Notes where the development team at MindArk will share various tips and bits of information about Entropia Universe with our participants. Some Developer Notes will address important issues that we have noticed being discussed on community forums, while others will be prompted by feedback and questions received via support cases. Our goal with the Developer Notes series is to help participants better understand MindArk’s goals for Entropia Universe, and hopefully correct several misconceptions that have arisen within the community that we feel might help participants make more informed decisions for their avatars. We hope that you find the Developer Notes articles interesting and informative.

Independent Lootpools - One concern that we see very often on community forums, especially when a big All Time High is achieved, is that one profession is unfairly “financing” a huge loot in another profession. This misconception often results in one group of participants (i.e. hunters) becoming upset or frustrated that their activity is being used to fund the rewards given to another group of participants (i.e. miners). To hopefully dispel this misconception, we would like to inform participants that the loot pools for each main profession (hunting, mining and manufacturing) are completely independent of one another, and that a large loot in one profession has absolutely no impact on potential loots in any of the other professions.

Resource Distribution - In order to promote interplanetary trade and to stimulate the growth of local planetary economies, the availability of various resources will be periodically adjusted on each of the different planets within Entropia Universe. The MindArk balancing team monitors resource availability and distribution among the planets very closely, and is constantly making adjustments to achieve the goals of local planetary economy growth and interplanetary trade. One exciting side effect of this process is that it creates unique opportunities for observant and industrious participants to profit from shifts in supply and demand in local planetary markets and creates opportunities for speculation. Another benefit is that the reallocation process creates a more dynamic and challenging universe for participants to enjoy and adapt to.
Click to expand...
 
Disturbing.....

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