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How one small exploit ruined all Entropia market in 3 years.

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read back what you said posted above me if he hit 2 claim it devided in 2 if he hit 3 diveded by 3 if it the case then its a exploit why

simple he mining say ores on the last drop he picks all 3 the he hit just enmat or treasure he get the full 20 peds that a cheat why he get 2 more changes at 20 ped amp he wouldnt get

if there devided by 3 all the time and only hit one then there no problem

if someone can post on the last drop whit just one find then the minimum is 1/3 or close to it alot lower than normal everything is fine other wise it a exploit
 
If I was to boil down the earlier 362 posts.

It would be this:

Something happened. Something serious.


We didn't find out what happened. No official statement was ever issued. We dont know if the money gained was returned or paid out.

We dont know if it carried on past that point. We dont know if it still happens today.
One thing is pretty much certain, if it didnt get enough attention back in the day, its been read recently.

For my part, I mine unamped so dont know what went on then or now.

I do hope that if serious exploiting like this has (and still is) going on then MA do use their ToU to maximum effect.


Its the only fair thing to do for them and for the majority of the playerbase.
 
Wow. Thank you for posting this. Well now it's public MA will have to address it. I hope they sue the exploiters and get the PED back in the economy.
 
ktpsmf said:
first of all i already sayd many times i cannot go and test because i dont have no peds or avatar.
Click to expand...

Sure. Autumn and Spring is the times when species like you are especially hyperactive.
 
ktpsmf said:
1. ma knew about it 3 years ago (unless does not understood my supports)\
2. it is highly not recomended to post or in other way inform society about exploits and how it works
3. by making this "ferry tail" i highly risk of being hated by community or mindark.
4. only reason i posted this is to make it fix "more faster"
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Can you post some screenie that u informed MA about it 3 years ago ?

For me that MA knew about it and didn't do anything with it is more important than how technically that exploit worked.

If MA as supervisor of such matter alow own participant lose money in order to favor exploiters it is not worth to delegate any money at all.
 
Selosse said:
TY Sachi.

First want to start of saying, if you do LVL13 amps only drop for ores, this will put the LVL13 amp to 0ped. No need for double or tripple bombs on last to get amp to 0 ped.
He did raise a valid question. OP first stated that you get 3x multiplier on last drop, when you only pay for 1, so people wanted proof.

Tamos tested one drop and confirmed, that even if it is only enough TT left on the amp for one drop, you can drop "2" or "3" drops with the last 20TT remaining on the amp and get several claims.

Taco confirmed this is true, BUT this give no extra TT back. If you get 2 claims on last drop, it only divide your minimum multiplier by 2. If you get 3 claims it only divide your minimum multiplier by 3.

= You always get the same TT back from last drop, you can't cheat the system this way.

But what I feel and many others is, if I compare to myself and me and taco standing on the same spot with 20TT left on our LVL13 amps. I drop 1 drop, for ores. I don't hit any claim. NRF

Then Taco drops "3" drops on his remaining amp. He than claims a enmatter claim and a Tresaure Claim, but the ore one is nrf. His claim size is Enmatter claim + tresaure claim = 1 normal size claim

But didn't he just get 2extra shots on get that minimum hit? Compared to me only who only got 1 try?

I doubt this can be proven. Even if Taco get more chance on getting claims on last drop, he can just state that the system will make him get extra NRF on next amp, and I will get more hits on my tries before or something like that.

Only way to proof this is 2 people mining with LVL13, one always drop 1 try on last, and one drop 3 tries. Probably need a pretty big sample if you want to compare TT returns for both of them.

So no need to discuss this further. Let MA decide what to do. Atleast now everyone knows it is possible to do this tripple drop on last remaning 20TT on your LVL13 amp.

And I don't accuse you of cheating Taco, stop it. You are just a big cry baby, and internet super Star, and worldchamp in every topic. I just had abit too much Tacos in the last time, it start to come up the wrong way. Im full!


BKK
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Someone should sticky this as a first post ;)
 
PW3CKA said:
Someone should sticky this as a first post ;)
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No kidding.

I've done this too and can verify claims. 20 PED value is not enough to do multiple drops. System generates an error.

No, I did not do this after this was posted. I have not mined in a few months.

This 3 year no fix story is nothing but a tall tale of woe by somebody who is bored and trying to stir up trouble.
 
Holy crap, must I buy a l13 amp to test it myself to get any clear answers? :silly2:
 
billairboy said:
Holy crap, must I buy a l13 amp to test it myself to get any clear answers? :silly2:
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if there is people like last post owner, that claiming this exploit not even work on 20tt amp :D that not read all thread that people says and confirms it allways was working, than yes :D
you should :D
 
ktpsmf said:
if there is people like last post owner, that claiming this exploit not even work on 20tt amp :D that not read all thread that people says and confirms it allways was working, than yes :D
you should :D
Click to expand...

There is people who playing at least, not like you <removed>
 
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Would have loved to use this hack if i had known about it. There, i said it out loud !
 
" ma knew about it 3 years ago (unless does not understood my supports"

You need to put in this letter so we all can take part of it because it is a evidence that MA has known about this problem for 3 years.

If you can put out this letter so we players can see it then MA are in trouble otherwise can MA just dismiss as idle talk.
 
valentin said:
" ma knew about it 3 years ago (unless does not understood my supports"

You need to put in this letter so we all can take part of it because it is a evidence that MA has known about this problem for 3 years.

If you can put out this letter so we players can see it then MA are in trouble otherwise can MA just dismiss as idle talk.
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You asking <removed> for proof? Waste of time.
 
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Still no answer from MA, I guess their weekend is more important then this wich makes me draw the conclusion that...
 
Yup, I also think that even short comment from MA would be good. Especially that MA official admitted ingame that they are aware of the problem
 
<removed>

So maybe in a few hours after the weekend has passed we'll gat an official response but for now, I think all angles are covered unless someones comes with 'real' data
 
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<removed>

On Topic: I am still waiting for the prove about the amp.or statement from MA.
 
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SHY said:
On Topic: I am still waiting for the prove about the amp.or statement from MA.
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Don't worry. If MA will step up with public statement (I am sure they will not. OK. They will. In september. Next year.) - this lunatic will start to steer shit around next "fact" that MA is Hiding Truth.
 
dr3w said:
Don't worry. If MA will step up with public statement (I am sure they will not. OK. They will. In september. Next year.) - this lunatic will start to steer shit around next "fact" that MA is Hiding Truth.
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I will not doubt it:laugh:
The moment i see an official ingame i gonna throw him a PM again about it (again).
Will update this thread if know more.

In the meantime:
 
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SHY said:
The moment i see an official ingame i gonna throw him a PM again about it (again).
Click to expand...


There you go ;)


Hi,

It is regrettable that you feel this way. However, you have been with us for a long time and you are probably aware of that we cannot discuss issues referring to the core dynamic of the Entropia Universe. There are numerous reasons for this. However, what we can reveal is that we have not implemented any changes in the distribution of the loot or in the general loot system. The return calculated as a percentage today, is no different from before.

Each individual can influence his/her success by gathering more experience and by using appropriate equipment, but still there is also the general economy of the virtual universe affecting your experience.

The dynamic feature of Entropia Universe has the effect that you sometimes have good times and sometimes not so good. Maybe it does not look too bright for you now, but we can ensure you that your success will improve sooner or later.

Thanks for your patience and your participation in Entropia Universe.

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support
 
Droops said:
There you go ;)


Hi,

It is regrettable that you feel this way. However, you have been with us for a long time and you are probably aware of that we cannot discuss issues referring to the core dynamic of the Entropia Universe. There are numerous reasons for this. However, what we can reveal is that we have not implemented any changes in the distribution of the loot or in the general loot system. The return calculated as a percentage today, is no different from before.

Each individual can influence his/her success by gathering more experience and by using appropriate equipment, but still there is also the general economy of the virtual universe affecting your experience.

The dynamic feature of Entropia Universe has the effect that you sometimes have good times and sometimes not so good. Maybe it does not look too bright for you now, but we can ensure you that your success will improve sooner or later.

Thanks for your patience and your participation in Entropia Universe.

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support
Click to expand...

Is this about the level 13 amp or overal return in hunting and/or mining?
 
overall copy/paste reply
 
SHY said:
Probably Mindark went crazy aiming at the 90% return...? :laugh:
Or i had just good luck in hunting. But what you are saying makes sense yes.
I get small amounts of muscle oil. The profit came in a lot for me TT-wise (shrapnell...)

Ok too much off topic now...

On Topic: I am still waiting for the prove about the amp.or statement from MA.
Click to expand...

I'm curious about whether this is true or not too. If it is, we might expect an answer from MA, but then again we might not.

We have to take into account that especially on this forum, this community is EXTREMELY TOXIC. We've treated all of the reps that have come on board here like shit, as if they owe us explanations for why the sky is a particular shade of blue, and why their name might contain the letter J.

We honestly dont know anything about this particular bug yet, other than a former player submitted it on the forums only and claimed the sky was falling. We've seen this 1000 times before, from McCormick and his garbage to various quit threads. It's never happened, but yet we seem to conveniently cherry pick arguments to dismiss, and arguments to make 41 page complaint threads over.

Put yourself in their shoes.

If they dont say anything they are vilified for being silent.

If they do say something, they are vilified for not taking action soon enough, not taking enough action, not reimbursing players, the list goes on.

And then there's the tin foil hat folks. If they confirm there is no bug, these folks will say they are lying, and what, another 41 page thread happens? And why? It's for no better reason than an official actually took the time to enlighten folks.

I call bullshit.

Also, are you sure you talked to an MA official? Calypso has had a few adviser programs before. Never in their history have the advisers been direct MA employees.

You're probably just talking to at most a support staff, and at the very least a volunteer who is trying to make this game better.

Regardless, I've read the replies here, and to be perfectly honest they are 100% typical of all the disaster threads on these forums, and various other threads too. Everyone has a different opinion. People claim to have validated and invalidated. Nobody agrees. In short, it's complete crap.

So what is anyone here supposed to do? Take this guys word for it? Take the word of someone else? We sure as hell wont take MA's word for it. It's basically pointless for them to reply to these threads, because all we do is keep crying like spoiled children.

Food for thought.
 
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Well with my tinfoil hat on, which I love to wear. What's to say this is the message we are supposed to hear to justify a change of loot system on mining. ehhh?

Maybe MA have plans to change the system back to the old style, and can now justify a switch back, claiming the exploits have now bee resolved, and this was a temporary solution until those exploits were removed.

I cannot see how you can put an L amp on an amour part anyway for repairs, unless someone tried to drag it in the repair terminal window on the armour part

Then I wonder even if someone saved up a ton of L13 amps to run them all with the last drop on each, they would still have to burn a ton of amps anyway.

For a quite a while now, I believe the loot system is a lot more clever than people may think. Even on shared, it plans is distribution. I've done enough rex waves to know it evens out to how it wants to pay a group of people.

Anyway, what happened is in the past. Not worth worrying about spilt milk, mob it up move on.

Rick
 
Magyar_Republic said:
I'm curious about whether this is true or not too. If it is, we might expect an answer from MA, but then again we might not.

We have to take into account that especially on this forum, this community is EXTREMELY TOXIC. We've treated all of the reps that have come on board here like shit, as if they owe us explanations for why the sky is a particular shade of blue, and why their name might contain the letter J.

We honestly dont know anything about this particular bug yet, other than a former player submitted it on the forums only and claimed the sky was falling. We've seen this 1000 times before, from McCormick and his garbage to various quit threads. It's never happened, but yet we seem to conveniently cherry pick arguments to dismiss, and arguments to make 41 page complaint threads over.

Put yourself in their shoes.

If they dont say anything they are vilified for being silent.

If they do say something, they are vilified for not taking action soon enough, not taking enough action, not reimbursing players, the list goes on.

And then there's the tin foil hat folks. If they confirm there is no bug, these folks will say they are lying, and what, another 41 page thread happens? And why? It's for no better reason than an official actually took the time to enlighten folks.

I call bullshit.

Also, are you sure you talked to an MA official? Calypso has had a few adviser programs before. Never in their history have the advisers been direct MA employees.

You're probably just talking to at most a support staff, and at the very least a volunteer who is trying to make this game better.

Regardless, I've read the replies here, and to be perfectly honest they are 100% typical of all the disaster threads on these forums, and various other threads too. Everyone has a different opinion. People claim to have validated and invalidated. Nobody agrees. In short, it's complete crap.

So what is anyone here supposed to do? Take this guys word for it? Take the word of someone else? We sure as hell wont take MA's word for it. It's basically pointless for them to reply to these threads, because all we do is keep crying like spoiled children.

Food for thought.
Click to expand...

Well said, pretty much is my sentiment.
 
I still like cake and pie.

No amount of discussion/ranting will change things faster.

Wait on MA to act/not act and chew a chill pill.
 
Selosse said:
TY Sachi.

First want to start of saying, if you do LVL13 amps only drop for ores, this will put the LVL13 amp to 0ped. No need for double or tripple bombs on last to get amp to 0 ped.
He did raise a valid question. OP first stated that you get 3x multiplier on last drop, when you only pay for 1, so people wanted proof.

Tamos tested one drop and confirmed, that even if it is only enough TT left on the amp for one drop, you can drop "2" or "3" drops with the last 20TT remaining on the amp and get several claims.

Taco confirmed this is true, BUT this give no extra TT back. If you get 2 claims on last drop, it only divide your minimum multiplier by 2. If you get 3 claims it only divide your minimum multiplier by 3.

= You always get the same TT back from last drop, you can't cheat the system this way.

But what I feel and many others is, if I compare to myself and me and taco standing on the same spot with 20TT left on our LVL13 amps. I drop 1 drop, for ores. I don't hit any claim. NRF

Then Taco drops "3" drops on his remaining amp. He than claims a enmatter claim and a Tresaure Claim, but the ore one is nrf. His claim size is Enmatter claim + tresaure claim = 1 normal size claim

But didn't he just get 2extra shots on get that minimum hit? Compared to me only who only got 1 try?

I doubt this can be proven. Even if Taco get more chance on getting claims on last drop, he can just state that the system will make him get extra NRF on next amp, and I will get more hits on my tries before or something like that.

Only way to proof this is 2 people mining with LVL13, one always drop 1 try on last, and one drop 3 tries. Probably need a pretty big sample if you want to compare TT returns for both of them.

So no need to discuss this further. Let MA decide what to do. Atleast now everyone knows it is possible to do this tripple drop on last remaning 20TT on your LVL13 amp.

And I don't accuse you of cheating Taco, stop it. You are just a big cry baby, and internet super Star, and worldchamp in every topic. I just had abit too much Tacos in the last time, it start to come up the wrong way. Im full!


BKK
Click to expand...



good sum up and ty now i understand better part of the confusion...

Selosse said:
If you get 2 claims on last drop, it only divide your minimum multiplier by 2. If you get 3 claims it only divide your minimum multiplier by 3.
Click to expand...

(keep in mind minimum claim with L13 is ~20ped)

i thought:
you do the 3 drops and each is amped 1/3 x L13...
then you could get 1-3 claims each can be worth min 7ped...(to get single 7ped loot on triple drop would be proof)..
there would be no problem if this is the case...you would just use L13 with lower amplification(which would be stupid)

so what taco says is you get minimum ped back whenever you hit? so you can get 1x20p claim or 2x10ped claim or 3x6.67p claims?
if this true it is VERY likely you get 3x the "returnrate" than normal drop, because in all other mining we know, doing ore+enmatter gives double hitrate to just ore overall but here additionaly the given out ped is dynamicaly interchangable over the claim types..and every hit (no matter how much claims involved) get you back 20 ped...

and this raises the question why should the returned ped be interchangable?
we had two types of finders until treasure arrived..ore+enmatter drops actually were 2 different actions with different tools...
now they are done with same tool but i thought of them as 2 different loot actions with same tool..but if the taco thing is true they are ONE loot action (because if 2 claims they have to be geared to each other)!
so are there any other hints towards this?
 
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Well I left town for the night around page 34...and this thread got so off topic... say what you will about my choice of words, but at least I stay on topic.

Back on topic:



Xen said:
If this is the case, then to prove it you would have to get claim size of about 6.7 ped on the last drop.
Click to expand...

Magnus Mag said:
oh yes thank you i was alraedy feeling stupid...
you need minimum possible find which is ~20 ped (because you put in 20 ped)..not the 52-65 ped taco calims..(i was not entierly sure if high amps not work like condition slider)..
(if you look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od3dx8LyGGY at min 5:45 he finds X claim..that is the proof i needed..)

so to confirm that the triple drop at the end doesn't give any TT or HR advantage we need to see one level 13 amp drop only giving ONE claim worth ~7 ped...

Edit:ONE or TWO work
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Please refrain from talking about this if you don't know how mining works. A claim of 6.67 ped is not possible with 6.67 of dedicated amp decay!!! When using this much decay, it will give you a claim around 20 ped...so when triple dropping a L13, the average find size will be around 20 ped per claim planetside!

Please read it slowly, as it is the 5th time I explained it.

Glad to be back in the Land of ill-informed Yappity-yaps!
 
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