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How one small exploit ruined all Entropia market in 3 years.

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It would seem nobody has any concrete proof either way: it's futile to argue any further, it requires MA to provide an answer. However, the OP certainly raised a valid question whether this is a major ped drain on the 'loot pool', as no one can prove it is not.
 
Sunsout Gunsout said:
If anyone ISN'T dropping their amps down to 0.00 tt, then they are too stupid to have an opinion on the matter. SO the fact that you had to ask me that question proves you know nothing about mining. Many amps require double or triple drops on the final drop to insure that the tt is all used up, and so you aren't wasting mu.
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i already said you missrad and shout nonsence because we talk about lvl13 amps:

same if you drop 1 bomb with lvl or 3 (ores enmaters archiology) it still gets 0 tt value so this amp finishing not work. and cannot be called as a will to finish amp.

i would understand if there will be left like 1 ped on lvl13 amp after 1 ore drop, but now all is same, you get 0tt value amp.
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WhiningSkeptic said:
Could you please show the evidence you refer to in 1?
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this is my earlyer message
there is no proofs needed here because there is a facts :

1. you can drop more ores and get less decay than normally if you drop it with full amp - that makes it exploit and unfair
2. you can get 3x times more chance to get ore than droping only 1x to search for - that makes it exploit and unfair game
3. noone can ever prove just Mindark that return of "unfair" drop gives you NO advantage, but that not makes this ACTION NOT EXPLOIT or FAIR.

this is simple when people understand what is whole thread about, not shouting as animals because day was bad to them.
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sachi.mk2 said:
It would seem nobody has any concrete proof either way: it's futile to argue any further, it requires MA to provide an answer. However, the OP certainly raised a valid question whether this is a major ped drain, no one has proof that it is not.
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I'd say it is safe to assume there is not. So far no form of evidence has been presented for the ideas in OP. Simply claiming something exist doesn't cut it. Besides, such a bug would have been removed a long time ago.
 
ktpsmf said:
1.there is enought proofs to call it exploit and i just explained it in like 10th post already near this one

2. what meaning has this question unless trying to offtopic and bite me of not having time to play , because cant bite calling me in words taht i described what "unfair" mining you and ohters your friends do in game?
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I just skip "2", ok?

Let's return to "1", look:


You got it?
 
Lastly, its a shame the timing of this thread is what it is...if MA was at work and saw this blow up, they would have made a statement...

Perhaps it was why the troll started it when he did. He doesn't care about fact...just causing a shit storm.

So, in an effort to get the truth, I will send support to MA also and ask for clarification.

I will post it here probably on Monday when they respond, and the troll OP can be spoonfed the info that his wallet and his "not playing" were never able to give him.

If he dropped 10 L13's in his life, he would know the truth...but he hasn't, he wasted all our time <removed>
 
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WhiningSkeptic said:
I'd say it is safe to assume there is not. So far no form of evidence has been presented for the ideas in OP. Simply claiming something exist doesn't cut it. Besides, such a bug would have been removed a long time ago.
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I agree, apart from, we do not know Mindark is capable of noticing such bugs, the amp repair bug is evidence they are not.
 
ktpsmf said:
there is no proofs needed here because there is a facts :

1. you can drop more ores and get less decay than normally if you drop it with full amp - that makes it exploit and unfair
2. you can get 3x times more chance to get ore than droping only 1x to search for - that makes it exploit and unfair game
3. noone can ever prove just Mindark that return of "unfair" drop gives you NO advantage, but that not makes this ACTION NOT EXPLOIT or FAIR.

this is simple when people understand what is whole thread about, not shouting as animals because day was bad to them.
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It is not facts unless it is backed up by evidence.
 
ktpsmf said:
there is no proofs needed here because there is a facts :

1. you can drop more ores and get less decay than normally if you drop it with full amp - that makes it exploit and unfair
2. you can get 3x times more chance to get ore than droping only 1x to search for - that makes it exploit and unfair game
3. noone can ever prove just Mindark that return of "unfair" drop gives you NO advantage, but that not makes this ACTION NOT EXPLOIT or FAIR.

this is simple when people understand what is whole thread about, not shouting as animals because day was bad to them.
Click to expand...

I understand what this thread is about, but if it works how Sunsout stated, and I belive him, as he really drops the LVL13s instead only talking about it, it is not an unfair adavantage.

In crafting it is that higher TT input got higher chance to hit really big (thats why gamblers craft Explo 40 PED / click to hit ATH).
If same loot distribution applys to mining (and I believe that is the case), then TT input (cost of drop) directly indicates your max. possible find (multiplier).

So if a drop cost 40 PED (full TT of LVL13 amp ore + enmatter), the system calculates the find based on this 40 PED decay + bombs + finder decay.
If amp is down to 20 PED then the find calculation is based on that 20 PED + bombs + finder decay.

Doesn´t make any difference if the loot find is distributed into 1, 2 or even 3 finds, loot is generated from the actual decay done, and the amp surely can´t decay below 0.
If it could you would have to bring the PED if you dump it into TT, what is not the case :D

It is just your opinion how loot works that gives you the idea that miners using the amp the way you descripe have an advantage.
In my theorie how loot works, it has absolutely no effect if miner do what you descripe, as loot is generated out of the TT input, and TT input of last drop is 20 PED nothing more. If the find is distributed in 1 claim or in more claims doesn´t matter, the calculation the system does is based on the really spent PED of the drop.

If it would be different, I am sure MA would have done something against it.
MA does nothing, tells me more than you ever will do.
 
If nothing else, this thread will cut mining over the weekend some.... maybe even restoring some mark up. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Only MA know truth of matter, i'm sure poor Ulf & co been spammed with support tickets.

Guess wait and see, and watch for any sudden bans happening..... or not. If 2nd,3rd,4th alts been used to drop low tt amps, then people have shown they believed was dodgy and attempted to hide. But again all speculation wait on powers that be to respond in some way.
 
I remember when this event came to light all those years ago.

I only heard the very basics & rumours of what had been going on, plus the banning of the two players involved.


I wonder who knows the actual truth. I'm not sure even Mindark do. As I recall, they had been informed repeatedly "something was going on" but for whatever reason, it continued.

As with the hunter bot thing from 8 years ago, I doubt we'll ever see an official statement.
 
sachi.mk2 said:
I agree, apart from, we do not know Mindark is capable of noticing such bugs, the amp repair bug is evidence they are not.
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Sure, Jashonich AP fuckup too. (mofos was even heavily resisted, until community didn't showed several screenshots from different players)

And latest Grand Failure Anthem with Arkadia Keys too. (honestly I think it was intentional shit, and btw - instances STILL closed)

But we talking about shit which any miner with a piece of brain just simple notice. I'm not even talking about miners who logging their runs.
 
GoNi said:
I understand what this thread is about, but if it works how Sunsout stated, and I belive him, as he really drops the LVL13s instead only talking about it, it is not an unfair adavantage.

In crafting it is that higher TT input got higher chance to hit really big (thats why gamblers craft Explo 40 PED / click to hit ATH).
If same loot distribution applys to mining (and I believe that is the case), then TT input (cost of drop) directly indicates your max. possible find (multiplier).

So if a drop cost 40 PED (full TT of LVL13 amp ore + enmatter), the system calculates the find based on this 40 PED decay + bombs + finder decay.
If amp is down to 20 PED then the find calculation is based on that 20 PED + bombs + finder decay.

Doesn´t make any difference if the loot find is distributed into 1, 2 or even 3 finds, loot is generated from the actual decay done, and the amp surely can´t decay below 0.
If it could you would have to bring the PED if you dump it into TT, what is not the case :D

It is just your opinion how loot works that gives you the idea that miners using the amp the way you descripe have an advantage.
In my theorie how loot works, it has absolutely no effect if miner do what you descripe, as loot is generated out of the TT input, and TT input of last drop is 20 PED nothing more. If the find is distributed in 1 claim or in more claims doesn´t matter, the calculation the system does is based on the really spent PED of the drop.

If it would be different, I am sure MA would have done something against it.
MA does nothing, tells me more than you ever will do.
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Thank you for having a brain...<removed>

If there is only 20 ped left to add to the probes and decay, that is all it add to the overall "success". Period. You are right, and the OP is wrong.
 
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sachi.mk2 said:
I agree, apart from, we do not know Mindark is capable of noticing such bugs, the amp repair bug is evidence they are not.
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As OP stated himself the "bug" is known since 3 years now, and already reported to MA several times.

Why MA does nothing?
Because MA don´t see it as a bug that gives someone an advantage.

MA fixed trapping.
MA fixed revive killing.
MA fixed coloring bug.
MA fixed leader takes all PvP exploit.

This list could be continued!

Why the hell should MA not fix this if it would be an advantage for those using that feature :scratch2:
 
What about the thing where they could repair a limited lvl 13 amp by putting in onto armor and repair?
 
these "uber"miners been using every exploit in this game. prolly have multiple accounts.. let me guess your 1 yr old son plays EU and deposits $2k a month?
 
BTW, saw snakeplissken|MindArk read this thread when it just was created so this would mean they now know, let's see what will happen
 
infamousH4 said:
these "uber"miners been using every exploit in this game. prolly have multiple accounts.. let me guess your 1 yr old son plays EU and deposits $2k a month?
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Does not work, there is age restrictions for that game - 1yr definately to young :D
 
I see THIS was moved to Bug Reports. Means - all our creativity will be wiped out soon.

In before it: I actually love you all. Peace.
 
I doubt they are using specific predifined profile sets for each amp to determine "multipliers" because it makes zero sense mathematically to rely on multiple variable sources if the key value(decay) still needs to be passed along to the function for additional operations, since it makes very little sense to run parallel functions for the "decaying" part of the operation.

Amp efficiency is based on a linear curve in relation to decay no matter what amp you us even the SGA and UL amps. Why standardise one side of the equation(Input) but then run a non-standard profile dependent equation using math identical to the input information yet seperate from it? it just dosnt make any sense.

Not to mention that the work associated with any analog profile dependant system gets to be very brutal very quickly because it needs to be manually resubmited for every item that is added to the game for a equation to do its job correctly. This is also the reason why you will find some sort of standardised curve in all math dependant systems in Entropia and most other games.

To Summarize:
I don't think the last drops deviate at all when it comes to TT return because mathematically it would be more difficult to arrive at that conclusion then to base a system of the principal variables(decay + amp decay) and the people over at Mindark are not bad at there jobs, they know this.

Best regards
Zweshi
 
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Bahhhhh, I´m away half a day and then something like this pops up.... I tried to read it all but its way too late and I simply try to understand what OP tried to point out.
So do I get it right that for years some folks exploited the system with the last 20 ped drop of lvl 13s by checking and dropping all 3 mining ressources and the mining system let that happen?

If so can we have some kind of statement of some MA official if that happened and if those avas and their alts will be perma banned?

P.S. And can everybody calm down a bit as I saw some really weird and rude statements... If that happened it affected us all (at least all those players that didn`t exploit the system).......
 
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Shee said:
Bahhhhh, I´m away half a day and then something like this pops up.... I tried to read it all but its way too late and I simply try to understand what OP tried to point out.
So do I get it right that for years some folks exploited the system with the last 20 ped drop of lvl 13s by checking and dropping all 3 mining ressources and the mining system let that happen?

If so can we have some kind of statement of some MA official if that happened and if those avas and their alts will be perma banned?

P.S. And can everybody calm down a bit as I saw some really weired and rude statements... If that happened it affected us all (at least all those players that didn`t exploit the system).......
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But...it DIDN't happen. And darnit, I was expecting you to give some voice of reason to this thread when you got home...:(

Triple dropping the last 20 ped tt of a L13 does NOT give you 2 free L13 drops (i.e. 60 ped, or 20 ped plus probes and decay for EACH type) It gives you 20 ped of amp plus probes plus decay spread over all 3 possible finds!
 
Zenzile said:
If "real miner" equates to some gambler who uses l13s, I'd rather not take their word. Your thoughts make plenty of sense, and I have always seen an average of 90% tt returns over the long run no matter what, in my own experiences and in others' experiences.

What you say makes sense, but I'd rather see someone actually record data on this.
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Lol seriously dude? ok whatever...replace "real miner" with "avid miner with experience with L13's" Don't make fruitless distinctions.
 
Sunsout Gunsout said:
But...it DIDN't happen. And darnit, I was expecting you to give some voice of reason to this thread when you got home...:(

Triple dropping the last 20 ped tt of a L13 does NOT give you 2 free L13 drops (i.e. 60 ped, or 20 ped plus probes and decay for EACH type) It gives you 20 ped of amp plus probes plus decay spread over all 3 possible finds!
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Taco thats why I was asking about it. I never heared about anything like this and I never tried anything like this...
 
Sunsout Gunsout said:
But...it DIDN't happen. And darnit, I was expecting you to give some voice of reason to this thread when you got home...:(

Triple dropping the last 20 ped tt of a L13 does NOT give you 2 free L13 drops (i.e. 60 ped, or 20 ped plus probes and decay for EACH type) It gives you 20 ped of amp plus probes plus decay spread over all 3 possible finds!
Click to expand...

Try it, film it, and post it on here... then we'll talk about the loot system automatically readjusting to treat the 60 ped decay as 20 ped and then adjusting claim sizes from there.. I'm pretty sure someone already posted about this, but MA can't even get the simplest of code right at times.. You expect them to develop this adaptive of a loot system?

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how MA could develop this failsafe and have it work properly.. why doesn't it let me drop .50 ped of a lvl 3 amp for ores instead of telling me no? Wouldn't it adjust the same way? It doesn't though.
 
Shee said:
Taco thats why I was asking about it. I never heared about anything like this and I never tried anything like this...
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Thats true, you have UL amp and therefore no reason to drop the other amps I suppose :)
 
/mod note/ Well, there's an hour and a half of my life I'll not get back ..

To everyone - please stay on topic.

To the OP: I find it a little curious that you continue to regularly post opinions here when by your own admission, you've not played this game for several years, and presumably have no personal experience to support the current state of game mechanics.

To everyone who has been posting insults here or in neg-rep comments - knock it off right now.

To the person who has alread made a couple of racist remarks - final warning, next one will get you a ban.

If this is indeed an exploit, report it in a support case with whatever evidence you have, including if you have evidence you have of any player abusing the game system.
It's up to MindArk to investigate and take action, if warranted.
Making unfounded accusations against others is not acceptable in this forum.

If anyone who has reported this already receives a response that clarifies this matter, please post it here.

If any miner who logs their finds has a long-term log showing the results of this 'final drop' issue, and it willing to share the results, some actual data would be useful, rather than just theories of how loot might work.

(In all the years I've played the game, my experience is that just about everyone has a theory about 'how loot works'. Most are different - some very different :D So far as I'm aware, none have ever been verified as 'the one and only true' theory.)
 
Rocket192 said:
Try it, film it, and post it on here... then we'll talk about the loot system automatically readjusting to treat the 60 ped decay as 20 ped and then adjusting claim sizes from there.. I'm pretty sure someone already posted about this, but MA can't even get the simplest of code right at times.. You expect them to develop this adaptive of a loot system?

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how MA could develop this failsafe and have it work properly.. why doesn't it let me drop .50 ped of a lvl 3 amp for ores instead of telling me no? Wouldn't it adjust the same way? It doesn't though.
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I think your looking at it backwards, there never is a registeration of 60ped in the equation to begin with so it does not need to adjust to new circumstances, it simply uses the same variable it uses to reduce durability to run the "Multiplier" part of the equation which in this case would be 20ped.

The fail safe preventing you from scoring a 60ped return on the 20ped you commited is due to the same "safety latch" that ensures that armour never goes below 0% durability not a algorithmic exception.

Cheers
Zweshi
 
" It's up to MindArk to investigate and take action "..........
Just thinking of how they work because its a 3 years old shit here so will it take them 30 more years to do something about it....:)
 
Sunsout Gunsout said:
Thats true, you have UL amp and therefore no reason to drop the other amps I suppose :)
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I dropped some of those lvl 13s during gold rush and mining mania but thats it and never got aware of that exploit (if it should exist).
 
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