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How one small exploit ruined all Entropia market in 3 years.

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The ruby pets are pretty awesome. But you know what is more rare than a ruby?

A diamond.
 
If Eve manages to finish this over 1,000 drops.. (5,000 would be better) and post data.. when you run numbers with him repairing each time I think his TT return should be right around 130-135%... The small hofs he's hit so far skew the data a bit, but time will tell. Not counting decay of portable repair unit.

For those claiming Eve will just lie about results, this is highly unlikely. Last I checked that amp along with the rest of the uber mining gear was up for sale, and Eve has not been mining much lately.

Results will have one of two effects:

1) Average TT return is 130%+ = outrage ensues and price of UL amps increases 10-fold. People exploit, MA is forced to get involved (or go bankrupt).. (price of portable repair units tops 3000%)


2) Average TT return is still ~90% = no one gives a shit.
 
Rocket192 said:
If Eve manages to finish this over 1,000 drops.. (5,000 would be better) and post data.. when you run numbers with him repairing each time I think his TT return should be right around 130-135%... The small hofs he's hit so far skew the data a bit, but time will tell. Not counting decay of portable repair unit.

For those claiming Eve will just lie about results, this is highly unlikely. Last I checked that amp along with the rest of the uber mining gear was up for sale, and Eve has not been mining much lately.

Results will have one of two effects:

1) Average TT return is 130%+ = outrage ensues and price of UL amps increases 10-fold. People exploit, MA is forced to get involved (or go bankrupt).. (price of portable repair units tops 3000%)


2) Average TT return is still ~90% = no one gives a shit.
Click to expand...

3) It's just one of those things where sometimes people profit, and there's no actual exploit. MA sees no need to make any statement, because it's basically a bunch of hogwash and MA doesnt normally involve themselves in tin foil hat conspiracy threads. Because MA does not reply, people cry exploit and the usual suspects have temper tantrums.
 
Magyar_Republic said:
3) It's just one of those things where sometimes people profit, and there's no actual exploit. MA sees no need to make any statement, because it's basically a bunch of hogwash and MA doesnt normally involve themselves in tin foil hat conspiracy threads. Because MA does not reply, people cry exploit and the usual suspects have temper tantrums.
Click to expand...

My issue is that outcome number 2 would infer there is some personal loot balancing mechanism.. aka personal loot pools..

Which would totally destroy the concept of "dynamic"
 
Rocket192 said:
My issue is that outcome number 2 would infer there is some personal loot balancing mechanism.. aka personal loot pools..

Which would totally destroy the concept of "dynamic"
Click to expand...

So then this is basically a no-win situation.

Either the community is not going to be happy because they see a conspiracy, and will not trust MindArk to provide them information even if they do provide it.

OR

Loot theorists point out that there is a conspiracy, and that only high end depositors will ever truly be rewarded.

Tell me why MA should answer again, given the above outcomes? I'm starting to believe they should let us all just rot.
 
Magyar_Republic said:
So then this is basically a no-win situation.

Either the community is not going to be happy because they see a conspiracy, and will not trust MindArk to provide them information even if they do provide it.

OR

Loot theorists point out that there is a conspiracy, and that only high end depositors will ever truly be rewarded.

Tell me why MA should answer again, given the above outcomes? I'm starting to believe they should let us all just rot.
Click to expand...

Well... outcome 2 would be the least evil of the two... granted they probably haven't responded because there truly isn't a good outcome from the revealing of this exploit/glitch/bug/hack/etc..

Sad times.. once again..
 
Hahaha oh fuck me!! Just when I thought the plot had climaxed, we get a nice twist! Couldn't make this shit even if you tried! :yay:

Btw I'm going with option three. There is no exploit, and and all is working as intended! Now that's going to make a nice plot line for "Thread Wars 2!!" :yup: Coming soon to a forum near you! :wtg:
 
Nor Alien said:
Hahaha oh fuck me!! Just when I thought the plot had climaxed, we get a nice twist! Couldn't make this shit even if you tried! :yay:

Btw I'm going with option three. There is no exploit, and and all is working as intended! Now that's going to make a nice plot line for "Thread Wars 2!!" :yup: Coming soon to a forum near you! :wtg:
Click to expand...

Well taco pretty much proved during his stream that a problem with over-using the TT of amps exists.. but what we need to know now is whether or not it affects returns..

If profitzors then Eve just increased the value of that UL 7 amp to 500k peds. :beerchug:
 
Rocket192 said:
My issue is that outcome number 2 would infer there is some personal loot balancing mechanism.. aka personal loot pools..

Which would totally destroy the concept of "dynamic"
Click to expand...

Mindark aprooved long time ago that there is no personal loot pool , only personal factors, that makes this situacion get loot from main loot pool (even in all what i know i hardly sya there is 3 loot pools, seems there is only 1)


indeed we really have 2 tests already which shows claim sizes and tt return that exploit exists, and not even 1 proof that could deny them.
 
dr3w said:
Sorry, I fucked up a bit and stopped LBML tracking stats, and started again. Anyway, who interested in those stupid hitrates and other stuff - calc yourselves:

CGUOT2m.png
vfnUJuU.png


So, there is 200 double-drops of "exploited" lvl7

3.68 each repair, but first one I fucked up a bit - it was 4.59
total decay of amp only summarized is 736.91 ped, + 300 ped of probes (100 enmatt and 200 ore) = 1036.91PED spent total. (I skipping drilling & finder part as irrelevant to "exploit" and also TT of PRU)

Total TT as return: 1462.12 so it makes 141% return.

By the way: "non-exploited" run TT in is 1500 PED exactly, so in "non-exploiting" it "would be" 97% return, which also "confirms" that "exploit" is here. For Unicorns.

And that is the moment when Unicorns should start celebrating, since they don't know a unicorn about mining at all.

Meanwhile, I have 800 drops ahead. 200 drops for me is nothing, and even 10k. But if such picture will last for whole road to 1k, then I will admit presence of a problem.
Click to expand...

if you would add treasures too, in theorical return it should be like 180%?
 
Rocket192 said:
My issue is that outcome number 2 would infer there is some personal loot balancing mechanism.. aka personal loot pools..

Which would totally destroy the concept of "dynamic"
Click to expand...

Rocket192 said:
Well... outcome 2 would be the least evil of the two... granted they probably haven't responded because there truly isn't a good outcome from the revealing of this exploit/glitch/bug/hack/etc..

Sad times.. once again..
Click to expand...

I agree. Whatever outcome will be one of two importants things become public knowledge. Either some knowledge about how loot works ( pool and/or correction mechanism do exist ) or general MA attitude toward comunity.

Basically with Taco and Dr3w experiments we don't need MA statement anymore, but it will be interesting seeing MA claiming something else that comunity data&tests shows or some bs like "hey, we didnt know about it last 3 years. Responsible suport emplyee is already fired for not forwarding that bug/exploit report" :)
 
dr3w said:
Sorry, I fucked up a bit and stopped LBML tracking stats, and started again. Anyway, who interested in those stupid hitrates and other stuff - calc yourselves:

CGUOT2m.png
vfnUJuU.png


So, there is 200 double-drops of "exploited" lvl7

3.68 each repair, but first one I fucked up a bit - it was 4.59
total decay of amp only summarized is 736.91 ped, + 300 ped of probes (100 enmatt and 200 ore) = 1036.91PED spent total. (I skipping drilling & finder part as irrelevant to "exploit" and also TT of PRU)

Total TT as return: 1462.12 so it makes 141% return.

By the way: "non-exploited" run TT in is 1500 PED exactly, so in "non-exploiting" it "would be" 97% return, which also "confirms" that "exploit" is here. For Unicorns.

And that is the moment when Unicorns should start celebrating, since they don't know a unicorn about mining at all.

Meanwhile, I have 800 drops ahead. 200 drops for me is nothing, and even 10k. But if such picture will last for whole road to 1k, then I will admit presence of a problem.
Click to expand...


Nice test!!!!

Now it is proven MA lose money from this.....they will patch it.

Or more accurately it costs MA money

Rgds

Ace
 
Ace Flyster said:
Nice test!!!!

Now it is proven MA lose money from this.....they will patch it.

Rgds

Ace
Click to expand...

not ma ..... main loot pool = playerbase

dut nont worry, i have perfect solution for ma how to fix it and that all would be happy (except for thoes who already left game when lost everything)

and i have this solution figured out, ma has more smart people, they can figure it out too, or ask me i would gladly say.
 
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ktpsmf said:
not ma ..... main loot pool = playerbase

dut nont worry, i have perfect solution for ma how to fix it and that all would be happy (except for thoes who already left game when lost everything)

and i have this solution figured out, ma has more smart people, they can figure it out too, or ask me i would gladly say.
Click to expand...

There is no proof this comes from the loot pool.

And all other evidence, including this exploit, points to random distribution on bomb drop.

So more than likely, yes, this is coming out of MA's pocket.

Rgds

Ace
 
Ace Flyster said:
There is no proof this comes from the loot pool.

And all other evidence, including this exploit, points to random distribution on bomb drop.

So more than likely, yes, this is coming out of MA's pocket.

Rgds

Ace
Click to expand...

i respect your opinion but let me explain :

MA do not have POCKET in game

MA pocket = LOOTPOOL

there is no more money, and in agreement sayd that game cannot have more money than playerbase have overal tt + peds.

that money they are insured in insured company.

that is how system works. Mindark Pocket is bank account, game does not have more peds that belongs to ma.
 
Good Morning (or Unicorn knows what is the time for you)

I see, you started already make final conclusions again. No wonder.

Will continue today.
 
dr3w said:
Good Morning (or Unicorn knows what is the time for you)

I see, you started already make final conclusions again. No wonder.

Will continue today.
Click to expand...

for one people 200 is enought for others 500000 is not enought.
dont judge people because they are not same as you.
 
ktpsmf said:
if you would add treasures too, in theorical return it should be like 180%?
Click to expand...

I will answer you in another way: If you would see my current mining sheet (yes, I fill everything in it, yes I will publish it FULL later) - you would see that current results is nothing out of ordinary for me.

That's why there is 200 drops counted as nothing.

While I watching behind horizon, you all watching under your legs.

Answering your question: just one treasure drop with lvl7 amp (4.5 PED) can yeld hit upto 63K PED tower planetside.

Which means, that after such hit my "momentum" return will be 14000%. (welldeservedyay)
 
dr3w said:
I will answer you in another way: If you would see my current mining sheet (yes, I fill everything in it, yes I will publish it FULL later) - you would see that current results is nothing out of ordinary for me.

That's why there is 200 drops counted as nothing.

While I watching behind horizon, you all watching under your legs.

Answering your question: just one treasure drop with lvl7 amp (4.5 PED) can yeld hit upto 63K PED tower planetside.

Which means, that after such hit my "momentum" return will be 14000%. (welldeservedyay)
Click to expand...

So, u think we should believe that u do not make more profit by using this bug? Why do u use at all then? Why loose time repairing amp after each drop? :eyecrazy:
 
ktpsmf said:
i respect your opinion but let me explain :

MA do not have POCKET in game

MA pocket = LOOTPOOL

there is no more money, and in agreement sayd that game cannot have more money than playerbase have overal tt + peds.

that money they are insured in insured company.

that is how system works. Mindark Pocket is bank account, game does not have more peds that belongs to ma.
Click to expand...


If everyone withdrew their money from banks at the same time, the banks wouldn't be able to cover it.

Just like Entropia, MA do not hold all loot money in advance, just like banks they don't have enough to cover all bank accounts.

This is common knowledge.

Loot is random, so it is VERY unlikely to come from any loot pool.

Rgds

Ace
 
dr3w said:
Which means, that after such hit my "momentum" return will be 14000%. (welldeservedyay)
Click to expand...

you are very unpretentious

:cool:
 
Ace Flyster said:
If everyone withdrew their money from banks at the same time, the banks wouldn't be able to cover it.

Just like Entropia, MA do not hold all loot money in advance, just like banks they don't have enough to cover all bank accounts.

This is common knowledge.

Loot is random, so it is VERY unlikely to come from any loot pool.

Rgds

Ace
Click to expand...

sorry but you missing one thing here, since i am verry well know about bank system.

ofcourse there are no even half deposited money in mindarks bank account, they are working to make more money with them.

But peds- it is just game currency that cannot be more than it is added, that system creted to make never lose mindark , there is a cap and its proven.
 
ktpsmf said:
sorry but you missing one thing here, since i am verry well know about bank system.

ofcourse there are no even half deposited money in mindarks bank account, they are working to make more money with them.

But peds- it is just game currency that cannot be more than it is added, that system creted to make never lose mindark , there is a cap and its proven.
Click to expand...


Lol, i give up, i will let others explain....


Rgds

Ace
 
Ace Flyster said:
Lol, i give up, i will let others explain....


Rgds

Ace
Click to expand...

i know what you mean to say, but in one of my talks with mindark i could understand that they have security system that if even 1 ped would "go from nowhere", and be added to total count , there would be huge alarm and notice .

since there is no similar thing now, i doubt it comes from somewhere else than from loot pool , even loot coes only from loot pool :p
 
Ace Flyster said:
Loot is random, so it is VERY unlikely to come from any loot pool.
Click to expand...

1. There is a lootpool (confirmed by MA, but to lazy to search the post)
2. There is no personal lootpool (confirmed by MA, same post as above, still to lazy to search)
3. There is independent lootpools for hunting,mining, crafting (loot from 1 proffession doesn´t have effect on loots of other proffession, confirmed by MA, same post as above, and still to lazy to search)
4. Random would be way to risky for MA, and they would have gone bankrupt long time ago, if it would be pure random!

Regards
 
GoNi said:
1. There is a lootpool (confirmed by MA, but to lazy to search the post)
2. There is no personal lootpool (confirmed by MA, same post as above, still to lazy to search)
3. There is independent lootpools for hunting,mining, crafting (loot from 1 proffession doesn´t have effect on loots of other proffession, confirmed by MA, same post as above, and still to lazy to search)
4. Random would be way to risky for MA, and they would have gone bankrupt long time ago, if it would be pure random!

Regards
Click to expand...

all is correct, you explained better than i ever will :D
 
ktpsmf said:
But peds- it is just game currency that cannot be more than it is added, that system creted to make never lose mindark , there is a cap and its proven.
Click to expand...


That would mean that the Items added by MA/PP, their TT is taken out of the loot pool.

What I mean is, all the items from Mayhem and the new UL Lvl7 amp, there TT has been funded by the loot pool?


GoNi said:
1. There is a lootpool (confirmed by MA, but to lazy to search the post)
2. There is no personal lootpool (confirmed by MA, same post as above, still to lazy to search)
3. There is independent lootpools for hunting,mining, crafting (loot from 1 proffession doesn´t have effect on loots of other proffession, confirmed by MA, same post as above, and still to lazy to search)
4. Random would be way to risky for MA, and they would have gone bankrupt long time ago, if it would be pure random!

Regards
Click to expand...

I confirm this has all been said, but that was some time ago.

4. Is probably some form of threshold, that once it is hit then something gets released.

e.g. every 10,000ped lost/turn over there is 1000ped hof.

Then during the mining even, that was hit a lot and why we saw a lot of biggies
 
Art Jennifer said:
That would mean that the Items added by MA/PP, their TT is taken out of the loot pool.

What I mean is, all the items from Mayhem and the new UL Lvl7 amp, there TT has been funded by the loot pool?
Click to expand...

yes , but they answered me to this support by saying that all this items and rx stuff they use (ammo +amps + consumables ) is funded from things like (mindark sold stuff in aukcion)


EDIT: this question was solved when rx was mining pvp4 with lvl13 amps and people asked where he got lvl13 amps and where got ammo to shoot.
than mindark answered that in some rules company hs, they cannot ADD more currency to game because only way to do it is only to deposit.
 
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ktpsmf said:
yes , but they answered me to this support by saying that all this items and rx stuff they use (ammo +amps + consumables ) is funded from things like (mindark sold stuff in aukcion)
Click to expand...

Okay, Interesting!
 
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