How one small exploit ruined all Entropia market in 3 years.

SHY · Mar 21, 2015

ktpsmf said:
only that 2 people (trolls) in this thread 1- claim himself 80lvl miner and 2- jsut have bug mougth.

claims things that : "there is not what you say but there can be still different claims"

1 - 80lvl miner that claims that track all his tt ins and outs but cannot show his result on mined amp tt value differences which he does every single drop when amp is ending.

2 - just talk nonsence and trye people to convince without any other tools jus his shouting and calling idiots if they not agree with this "opinion". And when someone asks him if you have any reasonable meaning to claim that , he just says that "claims can be various tt".
and in the end with so highly started conversation we are going back to the start , jus tome 2 "trolls" was trying go say something but ened theyr "trolling" because "facts" they wanted to post actually was not so clear to claim that they are right.

and to be 100% clear, botsh of "trolls" sayd they do it, but none explained why they do it since they claim there is no really any advantage of doing this.

ecen taht theory to "end amp to 0tt" not work here because fropping ampsw which was mentioned as exploiting "lvl13" is no need to put all ores , because it goes to 0 tt even with 1 selected ore.

considering that they claim they do it with all amps but not 5lvl, they agree even that they exploit system trying to put more ores and unfairly end amp to 0tt, by even knowing that amps whould be left 3% of tt as not usable condition.

i can describe it as unfair game trtying to unfairly use "unusable" tt of amp. that makes him advantage even that hunters and crafters not have.

so back to the beginning.

ktpsmf said:
all people had alot time to test already, they all back with different results, i know them already, hoping they will post it everyone and let you discuss how it really is.

and in my opinion results shows way different thatn taco and you describe now, but even than i dont get it why it is so "loud voice" to deny that is an actual "exploit" that it works different that it should work , like for other "amps"

Ok..... but where is the proof to make facts of your facts?

You said your friends have all the proof, it's been tested... so where are they?
A lot of people are eagerly waiting since you started this powerfull topic.

Sunsout Gunsout · Mar 21, 2015

ktpsmf said:
only that 2 people (trolls) in this thread 1- claim himself 80lvl miner and 2- jsut have bug mougth.

claims things that : "there is not what you say but there can be still different claims"

1 - 80lvl miner that claims that track all his tt ins and outs but cannot show his result on mined amp tt value differences which he does every single drop when amp is ending.

2 - just talk nonsence and trye people to convince without any other tools jus his shouting and calling idiots if they not agree with this "opinion". And when someone asks him if you have any reasonable meaning to claim that , he just says that "claims can be various tt".
and in the end with so highly started conversation we are going back to the start , jus tome 2 "trolls" was trying go say something but ened theyr "trolling" because "facts" they wanted to post actually was not so clear to claim that they are right.

and to be 100% clear, botsh of "trolls" sayd they do it, but none explained why they do it since they claim there is no really any advantage of doing this.

ecen taht theory to "end amp to 0tt" not work here because fropping ampsw which was mentioned as exploiting "lvl13" is no need to put all ores , because it goes to 0 tt even with 1 selected ore.

considering that they claim they do it with all amps but not 5lvl, they agree even that they exploit system trying to put more ores and unfairly end amp to 0tt, by even knowing that amps whould be left 3% of tt as not usable condition.

i can describe it as unfair game trtying to unfairly use "unusable" tt of amp. that makes him advantage even that hunters and crafters not have.

so back to the beginning.

Lol the guy you quoted (the popcorn fetishist) and responded to with this drivel has already posted in this thread saying you are wrong. He is one of the smartest, and painstakingly anal players in this game, tracking EVERYTHING he does down to 5 decimal points...he is also a good miner. He also agreed earlier in this thread that you are wrong. You don't even read your own thread? The worst type of troll!

Many people are not even bothering to reply, because your thread is so wrong...thank you to those that did and who understand how the last drop works. I guess I don't need to reply anymore either since the OP isn't reading shit.

Why did I check this thread one more time after my wonderful peaceful shower...Kestukis, you really are the most aggravating person on this forum. Gz.

Now I really really have to go get dressed and leave for the night.

ktpsmf · Mar 21, 2015

SHY said:
Ok..... but where is the proof to make facts of your facts?

first of all i already sayd many times i cannot go and test because i dont have no peds or avatar.

second that i cannot ask post results any of my friends who already told me results, because you all will say thhat results are bullshit and -rep them how Tamosiunas got 3 -rep and was called a lier and ass licker, only by writing he had tried and got last drop similar to normal lvl13 drop.
and ofcourse this was not accepted as proof becuase of 1 lvl14 amp.

so only proofs you accept is independent player that not afraid to be called "wss asslicker" or idiot as one of trolls likes to do.

so ....

did i answered to your question?

JD RACING · Mar 21, 2015

so is there anyone whit proof that the claim of the l13 amp that can show less than a normal find up to 1/3 less mining claim if they can on a single find then it all fine

from what i seen in the past i dont think ma is that clever in making it works

i ask before if there were any other amp that could do the same

so lv5 amp can do it also is there any unlimited lv5 amp tell the person that has one repair to the min and do 3 drops whit a portable repair

this is just a number if it take 3ped{fake value example} probe per ore to drop per 20 ped so 9 ped{fake value total} for 60 ped on the level13 amp

why would you spend 9 ped{fake value total} on the 3 slected to get 6.67 that dont make any sense

what the cost of probe use for one ore drop on lv13 amp insert that amout at {fake value}

i think some are talking nonsense

ps english in not my first language

ktpsmf · Mar 21, 2015

JD RACING said:
so is there anyone whit proof that the claim of the l13 amp that can show less than a normal find up to 1/3 less mining claim if they can on a single find then it all fine

from what i seen in the past i dont think ma is that clever in making it works

i ask before if there were any other amp that could do the same

so lv5 amp can do it also is there any unlimited lv5 amp tell the person that has one repair to the min and do 3 drops whit a portable repair

this is just a number if it take 3ped{fake value example} probe per ore to drop per 20 ped so 9 ped{fake value total} for 60 ped on the level13 amp

why would you spend 9 ped{fake value total} on the 3 slected to get 6.67 that dont make any sense

what the cost of probe use for one ore drop on lv13 amp insert that amout at {fake value}

i think some are talking nonsense

ps english in not my first language

whit one thread was first to test and prove :

Tamosius said:
btw droped lvl13 and with last drop enm+ore got bigger claim "lvl XIV 82 peds" so maybe its rly working like bug.becouse standart claims is IX-XIII

ofcourse after this he got 3x minus reps calling he various unaceptable words, that absolutelly decreased will to people to try post any information they had made today.

that is why it is best to wait for people who can write here by testing and are not my friends or wss members.

WhiningSkeptic · Mar 21, 2015

ktpsmf said:
whit one thread was first to test and prove :

ofcourse after this he got 3x - reps calling he various unaceptable words, that absolutelly decreased will to people to trye post any information they had made today.

that is why it is best to wait for people who can write here by testing and are not my friends or wss members.

Because it is nothing short of stupid to believe that the results of one drop like that would work as any kind of proof while suggesting it is plausible. In fact, calling that a test is worth negrep.

SHY · Mar 21, 2015

ktpsmf said:
first of all i already sayd many times i cannot go and test because i dont have no peds or avatar.

second that i cannot ask post results any of my friends who already told me results, because you all will say thhat results are bullshit and -rep them how Tamosiunas got 3 -rep and was called a lier and ass licker, only by writing he had tried and got last drop similar to normal lvl13 drop.
and ofcourse this was not accepted as proof becuase of 1 lvl14 amp.

so only proofs you accept is independent player that not afraid to be called "wss asslicker" or idiot as one of trolls likes to do.

so ....

did i answered to your question?

First, No need to talk for all or accusing me trying to talk for all.
Second, You called other people a lot of stuff too, so don't be supriced if people call you names back.
What has you being called names names by others to do with this discussion? Its like you want other people to feel pity for you and accept what you are saying without you or your friends lacking in showing proof. Just because people call you names? While you keep posting and posting. Now you are telling you have prove and still don't post them But you keep writing about all other sort of stuff. I mean wasnt that all the purpose of your huge amazing topic? And you calling other people trolls... wow

Third, i will not believe you untill there is 100% proof.

You want leverage? Show the proof.

ktpsmf · Mar 21, 2015

WhiningSkeptic said:
Because it is nothing short of stupid to believe that the results of one drop like that would work as any kind of proof while suggesting it is plausible. In fact, calling that a test is worth negrep.

a man just came and said that he dropped 1 lvl13 amp, he not claimed it as a test or proof.

WhiningSkeptic · Mar 21, 2015

ktpsmf said:
a man just came and said that he dropped 1 lvl13 amp, he not claimed it as a test or proof.

He suggested that the drop would work as at least partial evidence of the phenomenon and you called it testing.

ktpsmf · Mar 21, 2015

SHY said:
First, No need to talk for all or accusing me trying to talk for all.
Second, You called other people a lot of stuff too, so don't be supriced if people call you names back.
What has you being called names names by others to do with this discussion? Its like you want other people to feel pity for you and accept what you are saying without you or your friends lacking in showing proof. Just because people call you names? While you keep posting and posting. Now you are telling you have prove and still don't post them But you keep writing about all other sort of stuff. I mean wasnt that all the purpose of your huge amazing topic? And you calling other people trolls... wow

Third, i will not believe you untill there is 100% proof.

You want leverage? Show the proof.

please point where i am calling people any similar word like idiot or genetic failure? or any unnaceptable word.

Sunsout Gunsout · Mar 21, 2015

JD RACING said:
so is there anyone whit proof that the claim of the l13 amp that can show less than a normal find up to 1/3 less mining claim if they can on a single find then it all fine

from what i seen in the past i dont think ma is that clever in making it works

i ask before if there were any other amp that could do the same

so lv5 amp can do it also is there any unlimited lv5 amp tell the person that has one repair to the min and do 3 drops whit a portable repair

this is just a number if it take 3ped{fake value example} probe per ore to drop per 20 ped so 9 ped{fake value total} for 60 ped on the level13 amp

why would you spend 9 ped{fake value total} on the 3 slected to get 6.67 that dont make any sense

what the cost of probe use for one ore drop on lv13 amp insert that amout at {fake value}

i think some are talking nonsense

ps english in not my first language

It NOT 6.67 exactly...that number is just an approximation...the loot still pays out like it should....tt in vs tt out.

Quit being so literal. I have had it happen many times where I got smaller claims on the last drop when double or triple bombing, at least 20 times dropping a L13 double or triple with claims found....that is a bg enough sample size for me to be confident.

Also...it only happens (where the claim size gets reduced) when there is not enough tt left to cover all the drops...so only a L13 or 12,or Ta9 or 8 i think, not sure, it can work on a L5 because the amp ALWAYS has enough tt on it to cover all the drops you do, whether is a single, double or triple....

Look some of you obviously have no clue what you're talking about...so just stop.

There is no advantage to triple dropping or double dropping the last drop except to use up all the available tt. There is also no disadvantage at all, either! So if people do it, it's purely their own choice of how they want to spread out the remaining tt.

MAYBE I did make this too hard for some of you to understand by using numbers...so lets leave it at this:

The last drop, no matter what, is always a function of tt in vs tt out, so if you only put 20 in, instead of the 60 from the previous drops, your loot will be much less on the last drop. It doesnt give out as much when you put 20 tt in as it does when you put 60 tt in!

And it NEVER gives you imaginary 40 extra ped if of tt in if you triple drop!

I hope that is dumbed down enough to be understood, now. Peace, out dummys...(and the few smart people too)

SHY · Mar 21, 2015

ktpsmf said:
please point where i am calling people any similar word like idiot or genetic failure? or any unnaceptable word.

Just because you use other words i am able to say too thats an unacceptable word.
I can play the opinion game too

But stay on topic please...

Proof for facts??

JD RACING · Mar 21, 2015

so what the price on probe per drop for one single drop for one item chosen

you dont get the point do you

if its 3 per for one chosen and it 9 for all 3 why use all 3 if your amp is 1/3 of what it is when it full tt

can you add or you know there a advantage there that you dont want to say

if there no advangetage your loosing at the end then keep on going

BBpunisher · Mar 21, 2015

WhiningSkeptic said:
Because it is nothing short of stupid to believe that the results of one drop like that would work as any kind of proof while suggesting it is plausible. In fact, calling that a test is worth negrep.

Earlier in this thread you said one double or triple claim would be enough. lol

WhiningSkeptic · Mar 21, 2015

BBpunisher said:
Earlier in this thread you said one double or triple claim would be enough. lol

Please, read that post again.

I said it MAY be enough to disprove the OP. However, to actually prove its existence you would need a reasonable sample size.

Why?

Simple, you are testing two different criteria. In the case of disproving OP all you would need is a hit on two or three claims where one of the claims is small enough to reasonably be ruled out as a multiple of a 21.5 +/- 1.00 PED drop. To prove that it works however, you'd compare the TT returned from the final drop towards the TT return of the other drops which would need a decent sample size.

So what's to 'lol' about?

BBpunisher · Mar 21, 2015

WhiningSkeptic said:
Please, read that post again.

I said it MAY be enough to disprove the OP. However, to actually prove its existence you would need a reasonable sample size.

Why?

Simple, you are testing two different criteria. In the case of disproving OP all you would need is a hit on two or three claims where one of the claims is small enough to reasonably be ruled out as a multiple of a 21 PED drop. To prove that it works however, you'd compare the TT returned from the final drop towards the TT return of the other drops which would need a decent sample size.

So what's to 'lol' about?

You didn't elaborate such details in that post.

Looks like you've expanded in a way I can agree with; larger sample sizes.

My love for conspiracy theories combined with MA's lack of quality control in the past made me consider OP's claim. But for now I trust taco since he's the only one dropping big amps here.

SHY · Mar 21, 2015

Magnus Mag · Mar 21, 2015

Magnus Mag said:
so why would anyone do this then and not use a smaller amp with lower mu to get the same result?
don't people use and pay mu for lvl13 amps to get lvl 13 amplification

still waiting for answer..why would anyone drop L13 with 1/3 amplification?
i would make god damn sure i do single drop on last..

Alainax · Mar 21, 2015

Rocket192 said:
Regardless of the direction of this thread, when something (such as this accusation) is brought to the community, with no clear understanding provided, MA should step in and fill that gap in understanding so that we don't have threads like these continuing on to 34 pages of bullsh*t..

They could.. but they don't. If they did I fear they would need to provide countless explanations for the other things which have happened, in which people are still waiting on an answer for. Even when an answer was promised, like with the pilot skilling on Hoggolo, still nothing has been said.

Xen · Mar 21, 2015

Sunsout Gunsout said:
It is not "dum" because whether you do a single drop for one at 20 ped, or 3 drops at roughly 6.67 ped per, it works out the same. The probes and decay and the 6.67tt is (roughly) put back into any potential result, just like any other drop ever.

If this is the case, then to prove it you would have to get claim size of about 6.7 ped on the last drop.

JohnCapital · Mar 21, 2015

ktpsmf said:
i dont have no peds or avatar.

Well, that's all I need to know.

SoReal · Mar 21, 2015

Alainax said:
They could.. but they don't. If they did I fear they would need to provide countless explanations for the other things which have happened, in which people are still waiting on an answer for. Even when an answer was promised, like with the pilot skilling on Hoggolo, still nothing has been said.

Exactly , it is highly unlikley that MA will answer support cases with definitive answers about this either to you in a SC or in this thread or anywhere else.

So this arguement / discussion / excuse to throw insults thread will just continue to pointlessly fester.

sachi.mk2 · Mar 21, 2015

The last 20 pages or so seems to consist mainly of bickering. No matter what test results any player produces, it will never convince everyone. I think the OP has raised a valid question and we should focus on getting an answer from Mindark not the playerbase.

Norbert · Mar 21, 2015

sachi.mk2 said:
The last 20 pages or so seems to consist mainly of bickering. No matter what test results any player produces, it will never convince everyone. I think the OP has raised a valid question and we should focus on getting an answer from Mindark not the playerbase.

Some sense at last

Magnus Mag · Mar 21, 2015

Sunsout Gunsout said:
NO. 6.67 ped roughly is the multiplication factor.

So planetside, 20 tt of amp plus decay and probes will yield you a roughly 55-65 ped claim on any find.

Because the last drop is 1/3 when triple dropped, then any find will be approximately 18-22 ped tt.

Obviously slightly bigger for treasure, and slightly smaller for enmat, because of the probe difference, but that amount is negligible when using a L13. And of course other factors can influence the multiplier so more than one fricken drop is needed.

Therefore, you need to look for considerables on the last drop if 20 ped tt remains and you triple drop with a normal finder with no pre-amp.

Ok now I really have to go...so good luck. Someone else please keep clearing up these ridiculous statements that these people are making...I am starting to think they are doing it on purpose to troll me

Xen said:
If this is the case, then to prove it you would have to get claim size of about 6.7 ped on the last drop.

oh yes thank you i was alraedy feeling stupid...
you need minimum possible find which is ~20 ped (because you put in 20 ped)..not the 52-65 ped taco calims..(i was not entierly sure if high amps not work like condition slider)..
(if you look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od3dx8LyGGY at min 5:45 he finds X claim..that is the proof i needed..)

so to confirm that the triple drop at the end doesn't give any TT or HR advantage we need to see one level 13 amp drop only giving ONE claim worth ~7 ped...

Edit:ONE or TWO work

WhiningSkeptic · Mar 21, 2015

Magnus Mag said:
oh yes thank you i was alraedy feeling stupid...
you need minimum possible find which is ~20 ped (because you put in 20 ped)..not the 52-65 ped taco calims..(i was not entierly sure if high amps not work like condition slider)..
(if you look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od3dx8LyGGY at min 5:45 he finds X claim..that is the proof i needed..)

so to confirm that the triple drop at the end doesn't give any TT advantage we need to see one level 13 amp drop only giving ONE claim worth ~7 ped...

No.

To prove OP wrong, one or more claims below what would be considered a base multiplier of a normal claim would be enough.

Magnus Mag · Mar 21, 2015

WhiningSkeptic said:
No.

To prove OP wrong, one or more claims below what would be considered a base multiplier of a normal claim would be enough.

you are partial right yes..but only one or two claims with base multiplier...
if you get 3 claims 7 ped each you couldn't rule out a better hitrate..(20 ped spread could also be 20 ped in one claim)...

WhiningSkeptic · Mar 21, 2015

Magnus Mag said:
you are partial right yes..but only one or two claims with base multiplier...
if you get 3 claims 7 ped each you couldn't rule out a better hitrate..(20 ped spread could also be 20 ped in one claim)...

The hitrate could not be ruled out, however you could rule out the whole issue about getting 60 PED TT out of 20.

Regarding hitrates, you'd need to do quite a bit of mining and compare results. Not a huge amount though, but enough to show a hit rate on the last drop that is triple a single drop.

I'd happily do some testing, but I'm not paying 150% for the damn amps. I would also need a bunch of low TT ones.

Magnus Mag · Mar 21, 2015

WhiningSkeptic said:
The hitrate could not be ruled out, however you could rule out the whole issue about getting 60 PED TT out of 20.

Regarding hitrates, you'd need to do quite a bit of mining and compare results. Not a huge amount though, but enough to show a hit rate on the last drop that is triple a single drop.

I'd happily do some testing, but I'm not paying 150% for the damn amps. I would also need a bunch of low TT ones.

yea lol, you possibly right, sry was beginning some drinking during WoF..then my brain works in strange ways..
will think about tomorrow..
but after all i would be very happy seeing a video of a person getting one (yes one) claim worth ~7 ped with a level 13 amp tomorrow..

and with the 150% the amp you claim one question still remains:
why would anyone drop L13 with 1/3 amplification?

Selosse · Mar 22, 2015

sachi.mk2 said:
The last 20 pages or so seems to consist mainly of bickering. No matter what test results any player produces, it will never convince everyone. I think the OP has raised a valid question and we should focus on getting an answer from Mindark not the playerbase.

TY Sachi.

First want to start of saying, if you do LVL13 amps only drop for ores, this will put the LVL13 amp to 0ped. No need for double or tripple bombs on last to get amp to 0 ped.
He did raise a valid question. OP first stated that you get 3x multiplier on last drop, when you only pay for 1, so people wanted proof.

Tamos tested one drop and confirmed, that even if it is only enough TT left on the amp for one drop, you can drop "2" or "3" drops with the last 20TT remaining on the amp and get several claims.

Taco confirmed this is true, BUT this give no extra TT back. If you get 2 claims on last drop, it only divide your minimum multiplier by 2. If you get 3 claims it only divide your minimum multiplier by 3.

= You always get the same TT back from last drop, you can't cheat the system this way.

But what I feel and many others is, if I compare to myself and me and taco standing on the same spot with 20TT left on our LVL13 amps. I drop 1 drop, for ores. I don't hit any claim. NRF

Then Taco drops "3" drops on his remaining amp. He than claims a enmatter claim and a Tresaure Claim, but the ore one is nrf. His claim size is Enmatter claim + tresaure claim = 1 normal size claim

But didn't he just get 2extra shots on get that minimum hit? Compared to me only who only got 1 try?

I doubt this can be proven. Even if Taco get more chance on getting claims on last drop, he can just state that the system will make him get extra NRF on next amp, and I will get more hits on my tries before or something like that.

Only way to proof this is 2 people mining with LVL13, one always drop 1 try on last, and one drop 3 tries. Probably need a pretty big sample if you want to compare TT returns for both of them.

So no need to discuss this further. Let MA decide what to do. Atleast now everyone knows it is possible to do this tripple drop on last remaning 20TT on your LVL13 amp.

And I don't accuse you of cheating Taco, stop it. You are just a big cry baby, and internet super Star, and worldchamp in every topic. I just had abit too much Tacos in the last time, it start to come up the wrong way. Im full!

BKK

How one small exploit ruined all Entropia market in 3 years.

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