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How one small exploit ruined all Entropia market in 3 years.

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Do we have any MA comment in this thread? Every guy in this thread should write a support cases every day, to make MA say something... because if it is true that exploiters having huge tt profit - they scamming everyone else. That should get direct connection with low tt returns of others... So guys if you dont like someone robbering you in the middle of day - make MA to fix it (or at least investigate immediately)
 
Art Jennifer said:
That would mean that the Items added by MA/PP, their TT is taken out of the loot pool.

What I mean is, all the items from Mayhem and the new UL Lvl7 amp, there TT has been funded by the loot pool?
Click to expand...

Not necessary from loot pool, as the event rewards are not generated from the loot algorithm.
This items could alse be funded out of other sources, maybe trade profits of Marcus Challander Estate Broker, or simply a small gift by MA.
The TT value of this items will find its way into liability of MA anyways, but its relative low values, so that is not a big issue for MA giving out a few items during several events over the year.

Art Jennifer said:
Then during the mining even, that was hit a lot and why we saw a lot of biggies
Click to expand...


Well lots probes dropped, lots amps used, that fills loot pool very fast, so more big loots can happen.
 
dr3w said:
I will answer you in another way: If you would see my current mining sheet (yes, I fill everything in it, yes I will publish it FULL later) - you would see that current results is nothing out of ordinary for me.

That's why there is 200 drops counted as nothing.
Click to expand...

sure i agree, you can't look at the numbers after thatm 200 and draw conclusions...

the question is do you get good returns by getting "normal" claims or by getting hofs...if you take out the 400 ped of hofs (sth like this right?) you got yesterday it is still tt profit...this is where we should look at..
 


it is most believable lootpool schematics, so i tryed to paint it .

it is simplified to 6 players with equal expenses so i hope you understand what i am trying to say.
 
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Magnus Mag said:
sure i agree, you can't look at the numbers after thatm 200 and draw conclusions...

the question is do you get good returns by getting "normal" claims or by getting hofs...if you take out the 400 ped of hofs (sth like this right?) you got yesterday it is still tt profit...this is where we should look at..
Click to expand...

I repeat, I will publish my WHOLE log. Later.

Maybe, just MAYBE, - someone who still can't understand - will understand.

I tired already to explain, - why there is no "hitrate" for me, no "claim sizes", nothing - except TT in and TT out longterm, and decay of the tools.

I really tired.

Sorry, I need to drop today again 200 doubles minimum with that fucked up technique.
 
r0ound said:
So, u think we should believe that u do not make more profit by using this bug?
Click to expand...

I really don't give a single unicorn to your all "beliefs", "opinions" and "ideas". Especially when they are EMPTY WORDS.

r0ound said:
Why do u use at all then? Why loose time repairing amp after each drop? :eyecrazy:
Click to expand...

1. To prove it for myself by strong numbers.
2. To show those numbers who interested in them, and not in my personality or profitabilty.
3. And I do it in public because I have problems in self-discipline and I am very lazy, public way helps to counter it a bit.
4. I like some self-goals, because EU can offer only unicorned "iron" missions. And I a bit sick of them.

M2GSaOH.png
 
/mod note/

I must say that at 70pages so far, this thread has achieved a lot more responses than any of the OP's 'exploit/loot theory' threads around the same time last year! (In case anyone goes looking - after 2weeks he deleted all his posts in the threads, and the decision was made to remove them from the public forum.)

Sunsout Gunsout said:
So it's morning here now and I finally had a few minutes to catch up reading this thread and to post. I will try to answer what I can.

First off, I want to say that I am done attacking people, calling them names, all that shit. I won't stop swearing in harmless ways, though...baby steps. But I am done with my war on some of you. There is no chance for positive resolutions when I just piss people off with my posts. So I will be posting less and when I do, I will stop being so damn dramatic.

I had a lot of fun with the stream despite losing that much. Unfortunately, I had to take it down. There was a problem toward the end that showed my Facebook, and between that and some other info I accidentally shared being still a twitch noob, I started to get some grief on-line in my personal life. It was just one guy from stream, not any of you I am sure...but I had to remove the stream so more didn't mess with me. I tried to make a highlight removing that part, but then it wouldn't let me delete the main vid, so I had to delete both to make the main disappear. Sorry, it was late and I didn't have time to figure out how to save it or edit and all that so I just took it down.

I will do more tests though, it was fun...we had over 100 viewers through most of it, which was pretty much a record I think. I will be much more careful with what I show on it from now on.

Anyhow, I plan on doing more tomorrow probably, no sure yet though. I will try and figure out a way to be faster at it lol...thank you to all those that helps, WiFi for walking me through setting up stream, Naamios for offering 2 low tt L13s to help the test. And all the funny comments in the stream chat from viewers kept me in pretty good spirits despite the losses.

I would love to say more right now about telling everyone to calm down and quit biting each others dicks off, but "OMG TACO YOU HIPPOCRATE YOU DO IT ALL THE TIME." SO I don't really want to be the pot calling the kettle black, and I should probably just shut up. But stop fighting all! If I can do it, and I will try from now on, then we all can! :swoon:

Edit: and if ever I forget and start to go into my old habits of being rude, then just post this little gay pink smiley-face to remind me of what I said here. It will work. Just for gods sake stop with the popcorn one...that NEVER works! Edit: :swoon: ahhhhh.
Click to expand...

Quoted here for posterity .. *contemplates taking screenshot*

Thanks Taco... and also dr3w. Both for the logging of data, and also the 'unicorns'.

Thanks also to Shy for posting the screenie of his support case & Ulf's response.

I look forward to the outcome of dr3w's long-term test, and to any announcement or other response from MindArk.
 
Serica said:
/mod note/

I must say that at 70pages so far, this thread has achieved a lot more responses than any of the OP's 'exploit/loot theory' threads around the same time last year! (In case anyone goes looking - after 2weeks he deleted all his posts in the threads, and the decision was made to remove them from the public forum.)



Quoted here for posterity .. *contemplates taking screenshot*

Thanks Taco... and also dr3w. Both for the logging of data, and also the 'unicorns'.

Thanks also to Shy for posting the screenie of his support case & Ulf's response.

I look forward to the outcome of dr3w's long-term test, and to any announcement or other response from MindArk.
Click to expand...

as soon as exploit will be fixed, best for community will be just to delete this thread too. because new people not positive to know similar situations.


and i think we all agree that if Mindark would have take it more serious , none of this would be happened. and it would be fixed in same silence as it was rized.


community require answers but game need only fix and resolution of covering loses.

there would be no answers needed if they jsut fixed it in time.

in my opinion i would offer Mindark to bring more attention for fixing bugs than inventing new things, because bugs brings more damage to game than features money.
 
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Not a chance.
 
Magnus Mag said:
sure i agree, you can't look at the numbers after thatm 200 and draw conclusions...

the question is do you get good returns by getting "normal" claims or by getting hofs...if you take out the 400 ped of hofs (sth like this right?) you got yesterday it is still tt profit...this is where we should look at..
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this... once we see all the 1000 drops it will be easy to do this. I am still willing to bet that we will see both a decline in hits and a decrease of any bigger than normal finds as the test goes on.

As for OP, you need to not jump on the data too early, and definitely don't say mine "proved" anything either. My data seemed opposite of what I thought would happen, but it doesn't prove that the game doesn't balance it out some way deep inside its bowels.

For Drew, doing this test, having to repair 1000 times between drops...that has to be the most excruciatingly annoying thing ever. I would not be able to last 10 drops doing that ever with a PRT. But it is his test, and because he says he wants to do 1000 drops, then we all owe him the courtesy of waiting until all his drops are done before we start jumping to conclusions.
 
SHY said:
Up to the 100 pages! :yay:
Click to expand...

Change forum settings to show more posts on one page, it is just 15pages here :) really helps a lot when trying to follow this kind of threads.
 
whiteknut said:
Change forum settings to show more posts on one page, it is just 15pages here :) really helps a lot when trying to follow this kind of threads.
Click to expand...

wow just wow ty! doing it now!

Edit: woohoo 50 per page! I can spend more time posting and less time clicking, I am sure you all love that...:swoon:

Edit edit: There is all kinds of cool shit you can do! I guess I never looked before...

EEE: I made it "dusk"!
 
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shoti said:
U saying that this famous bug, with repairing L amps, who get few ppl banned is here again ?
Click to expand...
No, that one is gone for good.
What i'm saying is that there's other, still active exploits that are based on exactly the same principle.
I can't explain what i know here in detail ofc, for obvious reasons. What i can say is that in the database of all ingame items there's a certain property - sth. like "attachable" or "can take attachments". This property has wrong value on some objects.
I know there's quite many item(type)s ingame but c'mon, how hard can it be to check them over and fix those damn obvious errors, on just one single property? I'd estimate 1-2 days tops for one literate person - and it doesn't even have to be a programmer.
 
This is only possible with the lvl 13 amp right?
But has been doable with previous amps that got patched up by MA secretly?

Tacos test run looked promising though.
 
NNG said:
This is only possible with the lvl 13 amp right?
But has been doable with previous amps that got patched up by MA secretly?

Tacos test run looked promising though.
Click to expand...

all amps except lvl5 type, even unlimited ones.
 
dr3w said:
I repeat, I will publish my WHOLE log. Later.

Maybe, just MAYBE, - someone who still can't understand - will understand.

I tired already to explain, - why there is no "hitrate" for me, no "claim sizes", nothing - except TT in and TT out longterm, and decay of the tools.

I really tired.

Sorry, I need to drop today again 200 doubles minimum with that fucked up technique.
Click to expand...

your whole log doesn't matter that much when we look at special things...

you pretend that I don't understand because i thinking mining has "calims" and there is "hitrate"...

i will tell you something, i opened alot of "loots" too, i craft nearly 9 years now and not 100 click runs but minimum 1.5k clicks runs a day...

and the nice thing is, there is this new crafting interface some time now. and there you see the nice little loots="claims" in pure figures...

so now think a minute with me, i know it is hard for you to think out of your box....

if i do 500 click run, each click is 1 ped worth..click click click..

i sort the loot by values i can tell at the end by just looking at those biggest loots="claims" if it was good or bad run...

some examples:
25 ped
5 ped
next all <2 ped
=>it is tt minus run

233 ped
20 ped
10 ped
next all <2ped
=>it is tt plus run

5ped
2ped
2ped
=>it is desastrous run



if i take the desastrous run now...
or if i take the good run whole ttout minus the 233 ped...
...and i still have 95% tt return i KNOW that MA changed something or i did exploit or i made wrong calculation


so because YOU say only matter is tt in and tt out because you just look at those figures because you don't see or care about the others doesn't mean they are irrelevant


and BTW still no one found me that 7 ped L13 claim
 
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This is only possible with the lvl 13 amp right?
Click to expand...
No



ktpsmf said:
all amps except lvl5 type, even unlimited ones.
Click to expand...

Excellent thread so far

But what you pointed out was that

it works when triple (sometimes double) droping the last usable click of the mining amp would result in a tt lower than 0.

For example the Level 5 Finder Amplifier has a TT of 200 PED so once it reach less than 6 PED TT can't be used anymore, since it's decay is 2 PED even with triple selection it would result with a TT of 0 PED at least, so not possible to exploit with a Level 5 Finder Amplifier using the method described in this thread (with EU you never know if there isn't another bug).

Level 6 Finder Amplifier can't either (minumum TT=7.50 [decay per use 2,5, 3*2.5=7.5]) and all others were decay is equal or higher than 1% of maximum TT.
 
MG Mighty said:
No





Excellent thread so far

But what you pointed out was that

it works when triple (sometimes double) droping the last usable click of the mining amp would result in a tt lower than 0.

For example the Level 5 Finder Amplifier has a TT of 200 PED so once it reach less than 6 PED TT can't be used anymore, since it's decay is 2 PED even with triple selection it would result with a TT of 0 PED at least, so not possible to exploit with a Level 5 Finder Amplifier using the method described in this thread (with EU you never know if there isn't another bug).

Level 6 Finder Amplifier can't either (minumum TT=7.50 [decay per use 2,5, 3*2.5=7.5]) and all others were decay is equal or higher than 1% of maximum TT.
Click to expand...

But will it work if you use a Level 5 Finder Amplifier with 8 PED TT left and try a triple drop? Normally it would remove 6 ped from the amp, but since 6 TT is minimum, it shouldn't go through right?
 
NNG said:
But will it work if you use a Level 5 Finder Amplifier with 8 PED TT left and try a triple drop? Normally it would remove 6 ped from the amp, but since 6 TT is minimum, it shouldn't go through right?
Click to expand...

but it goes to 2 ped tt. that is an issuse , but not a priority one.

as i said exploit combines few unfair actions :


1. usunable condition of tt can be used
2. can be used 3x drops when tt is left only for 1
3. posibility to find 3x claims instead of 1
4.posibility to find same size claim as with normal tt drop when amp decays same.
5. ul amp users can just repair it for 1 drop and drop 3 probes instead of one , and starting endless 3x drops with 1 drop tt value.
 
NNG said:
But will it work if you use a Level 5 Finder Amplifier with 8 PED TT left and try a triple drop? Normally it would remove 6 ped from the amp, but since 6 TT is minimum, it shouldn't go through right?
Click to expand...

No it goes past 3%, because of the high cost it goes past 3% quite far, but you will notice so does your L armor and faps (just to a much lesser extent). So by selecting more than one ore type, you eat up more of that 3% than if you selected one. This isnt the issue. The issue is what happens when it goes past 0.00 tt, and the questions is what happens then.

I will try to make a list of every amp in game showing how far they can be brought down on doubles drops and triple drops. If I have time.

Quick solution? 6% condition limit on UL amps except 5, and 6 if there is one, and TREASURE HUNTING EVERYWHERE. Then ark has no more advantage (if there is one) and people who use the huge amps can get a little bonus since they will lose anyway :)
 
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NNG said:
But will it work if you use a Level 5 Finder Amplifier with 8 PED TT left and try a triple drop? Normally it would remove 6 ped from the amp, but since 6 TT is minimum, it shouldn't go through right?
Click to expand...

It's 6 PED minimum TT before the last use
Not 6 PED TT and it no longer can be used.

There is no known issue for taking the item for less than the "usable" condition in the last use.
This is the same for most if not all items in EU
(armor works as it was intended as far as I know)

(Although some people believe there is a bias on the last use or in the last shoot on a mob but without data I think it is just "confirmation bias" derived from the fact that it is the best remembered event).
 
I am beginning to be convinced that the MA knew but did nothing of this bug who ensured that much money disappeared from the game the wrong way for several years with the MA's knowledge.....So what now.

1. Will the MA to confess it.

2. Will MA do everything to hide it.

3. Will we get compensation for this.

4. How credible will MA's excuses be.

Ma speaks very diplomatically that they refuse to reveal much more than just all questions about the loot and that they sometimes knowingly lie a little there, we are aware at.

This is starting to become a MA's private Amp watergate scandal..........

First the 109-Oreamp (L) which could be repaired, where it took the MA 6 months to react after many players entered and reacted to something is not right to the suppot and now this ( then the estimat was that about 2 millions peds disappeared out of the game ) and now this money leak who MA know about which lasted at least 3 years how long it will continue, we shall see........

:lam:
 
Sunsout Gunsout said:
Quick solution? 6% condition limit on UL amps except 5, and 6 if there is one, and TREASURE HUNTING EVERYWHERE. Then ark has no more advantage (if there is one) and people who use the huge amps can get a little bonus since they will lose anyway :)
Click to expand...
Easier solution: increase maximum tt to at least 100*decay so that a triple drop is 3% of tt or less.

It would however mean lvl 13 would have maximum tt of 2000 PED or more, and not everyone would be happy with that.
 
valentin said:
I am beginning to be convinced that the MA knew but did nothing of this bug who ensured that much money disappeared from the game the wrong way for several years with the MA's knowledge.....So what now.

1. Will the MA to confess it.

2. Will MA do everything to hide it.

3. Will we get compensation for this.

4. How credible will MA's excuses be.

Ma speaks very diplomatically that they refuse to reveal much more than just all questions about the loot and that they sometimes knowingly lie a little there, we are aware at.

This is starting to become a MA's private Amp watergate scandal..........

First the 109-Oreamp (L) which could be repaired, where it took the MA 6 months to react after many players entered and reacted to something is not right to the suppot and now this ( then the estimat was that about 2 millions peds disappeared out of the game ) and now this money leak who MA know about which lasted at least 3 years how long it will continue, we shall see........

:lam:
Click to expand...

i think MA and most of the peole here first did not understand what happens if you really force to do just bugged triple drops...

i think this is the problem whith dr3w not believing too...he said "i see no trend"..sure because some say "my average return is 94% and others say 96%..

if you alway use full tt lvl7 amp(double bombing) the effect of the exploit should be something around 2% on overall tt return...
(something like 175 ped "worth" 178 ped)

if you now force, and this is what happens if this whole exploit works and what the op claims, to try to JUST or MOSTLY use last triple drops the percentage will get really high you pay 4.5 ped "worth" 7.5 ped (double bombing) in our level 7 example

if all would use full amps, sure there would be not much problem, get that small bonus at the end..all users would get it at last drop...

but the real abuse and full potetial of the exploit is to tune towards getting most bugged triple drops out with the least "normal" peds spend..

it is same like mu...if you hunt 500 hp mob to get a vixen gear ist shit mu but if you kill a 10 hp vixen to get a gear its good mu


so if support reads that you can get little better return on last drop they think.."sure lol get that 2% more..it comes out of whole lootpool anyway, we don't lose, you won't get rich with that"...and don't understand the real potential
 
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Hello Unicorns. I see you have fun.

Sorry in advance, but I did unicorned today during repairing of one amp, and repaired it fully. Hard to always keep concentration on such unicorning.

Especially when Interface Usability in such beautiful "game" is top-notch, like: decaying PRU just upon equipping it and not even use, and interface of PRU (and stationary one too) by default "repair to 100%", which is utterly unicorning.

Back to numbers:

OFShdJA.png


TT in: 1082.40 PED
TT out: 1077.28 PED
return: 0.995% (greedy unicorns!)

All decay of tools and stuff not included as irrelevant, also there is 20 "non-unicorned" drops out of 200.

600 drops left, will start today for sure those.

Need to go now, happy unicorning.
 
i also want to add now why i from the beginning believed there is something to the whole story...

there is a guy on ark...
i trade with him several times and those trades where a bit strange, a little scammy...i got not really scammed but near to it..

one time i sold him a terra amp bp..he payed me in terrudite 150% mu at that time..next few days it declined to 130%...so i was already wondering..

then i needed some special treasures, low mu ones..i asked in tradechat, he answered and offered me, i took but he gave me not refined ones, i thougtht to myself well and took them...not thinking much but in the end without the refining it was no good deal and i payed too much...so far so good...
but next day this two types of treasure suddenly got from 105% to 115% in mu..and i got pm from him if i don't want more...
....i should decide fast because he has to got..
...i am 100% sure he manipulated the auction..i saw it other times too with arkoin for example, when someone wanted for LA...

so i knew this guy was not really scamming but near to it by tricking to get good offers...so after money...
scamers scam for money and not for gamble..

but then i see him craft amps and get globals on treasure, low mu treasure...

and i thought, ok he want make money, else he won't "scam" people...but anyone who want to make money this way won't gamble it away...

perhaps he would craft amps but to sell those amps to make money..
or burn those amps to get good mu ores...
not to burn them on low mu treasures...

so there always was a big question mark about this guys behaviour...

this whole scenario presented by op also explains why there come noobs in entropia and get huge towers and loots without any post in forum or something and dissappear again...

now i think i know what is happening...it all makes sence to me...

that is why i thought right from the beginning that there is some truth in what the op says
 
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Magnus Mag said:
then i needed some special treasures, low mu ones..i asked in tradechat, he answered and offered me, i took but he gave me not refined ones, i thougtht to myself well and took them...not thinking much but in the end without the refining it was no good deal and i payed too much...so far so good...
but next day this two types of treasure suddenly got from 105% to 115% in mu..and i got pm from him if i don't want more...i am 100% sure he manipulated the auction..i saw it other times too with arkoin for example, not done...

so i knew this guy was not really scamming but near to it by tricking to get good offers...so after money...
Click to expand...


I have on many occasions, only sold 20% of my available stack just as I needed some peds to mine more. Then sold the rest a few days later as MU went up above normal.

Nothing stage at all.
 
Art Jennifer said:
I have on many occasions, only sold 20% of my available stack just as I needed some peds to mine more. Then sold the rest a few days later as MU went up above normal.

Nothing stage at all.
Click to expand...

later i found out this person got mentioned in other threads as fishy person and others posted their experience with him...without names of course...but i am pretty sure they meant same person...
there was some longer thread not too long ago..
others post something about former famous alts which scammed around...


in the end i am sure he did unfair trades to me...one step away from scams...
and such people don't gamble away their scamed money on stupid actions like craft high level amps and mine treasures in underground with them...
 
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:scratch2:
I don't even know how to respond to this post other than if I could somehow convince people that thorifoid hats are indeed made of tinfoil!


Cheers,
Salty
 
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