Question: Pet Handling proffesion - is it influencing how fast/eco you train your pet?

Hello,

from time to time i like to test how much exp per enerergy consumed (xp/en) i am getting on my pet.

In the past it was around 1.80-1.85 when training (well fed and happy) only at 99-100% focus (not letting it to idle train since it is less eco). I have enough data sample to be sure of this numbers for my avatar.

During few last days much things related to taming has happened.
1) there was bonus xp gain on the weekend.
2) i tameded around 3k of bunnies and my skills in Animal Tamer went up from 14 to 18 (and my Pet Handler went up too - i am not really sure how much but from around 13 to 17 now).

Today i did another sample test for this and now i get around 1.95-2.00 xp/en when training my pets.

So either:
- the bonus xp weekend got extended?
- some profession (most likely Pet Handler) influences how eco and how fast you train your pets.

If it is the snd option then i think for professional pet trainers it might be worth going out to the field and tame the damn creatures .

I will do few more tests but it takes time. And no - during tests i was not using gneration buff .

Can someone with high taming level (i.e. +40) could say their xp/en ratio?

It is something i observed and need confirmation if i am not going crazy here .

Falagor

Did you test the same pet? The new ones are different xp/en ratios anyway. Although I think I've also possibly noticed a difference. It may well be slightly cheaper at higher lvls. Unfortunately I've not kept detailed enough records.

MarieWoodell said:

Did you test the same pet? The new ones are different xp/en ratios anyway. Although I think I've also possibly noticed a difference. It may well be slightly cheaper at higher lvls. Unfortunately I've not kept detailed enough records.

Click to expand...

Yup same pet .

I noticed you are much into taming/pet skilling - mayby you are already high skilled Pet Handler and can say what is your xp/en consumption for certain pets and we can compare? What is your Animal Tamer and Pet Handler levels?

I will do few more tests today and write my results.
I am level 18 Animal Tamer and 17 Pet Handler - not sure wich one might be influencing it so i give info on both .

@edit:
How i make the test:
- i wait until my pet has exactly 99% focus and do Greet tricks untill it ticks to 98% (i know i could wait to 100% but skilling ONLY at 100% may lead to situation when i miss the moment when it ticks 100% and pet does not regen any more focus = idle training which is less eco. I already tested training only at 100% vs at 99-100% and difference is not visible in eco and snd option guarantees i won't alow my pet to be idle skilling even for a second - this was explanation why i start at just under 99% so each test starts and ends exactly at same state of focus).
- i feed full the pet
- i write down current exp and energy (and also energy as % now since now full sometimes is 100.0%, sometime 99.9% and sometimes 99.8% so this is more accurate)
- i note down MA time and set alarm clock after ~58 minutes so i won't miss it.
- i do tricks as soon i see 99% (tested with different tircks will comment about this below (*))
- after exactly 1 hour has passed i recall pet and note down difference and based on this i calulate xp/en ratio.

(*) comment on different tricks:
i have done lots of tests to find "best" trick and tests were on 2 different pets. And it seems that all gave 1.80-1.85 xp/en ratio (at the time of testing). Whats more i repeated tests on each trick few times and they all ranged from 1.80-1.85 so sometimes one was better than the other and sometimes vice versa.
In my observation the times when i got closer to 1.80 were when i had to "recall" few times my pet during the 1 hour (ofc extending those few seconds to full hour spawned and trained) due to i.e. changing tp. So my personal "conclusion" is that when you recall your pet the energy "leftover" is rounded down to full pec. This is just somehing i noticed and it could be that differences 1.80-1.85 come from totally random factor .

Falagor

Falagor said:

Yup same pet .

I noticed you are much into taming/pet skilling - mayby you are already high skilled Pet Handler and can say what is your xp/en consumption for certain pets and we can compare? What is your Animal Tamer and Pet Handler levels?

I will do few more tests today and wrie my results.
I am level 18 Animal Tamer and 17 Pet Handler - not sure wich one might be influencing it so i give info on both .

Falagor

Click to expand...

Unfortunately I'm not higher than you but a little lower. I'm a nondepositor on a tight budget and until the bristles were made tameable I had never tamed a single creature. I've made good progress but I have to make it financially balance so I'm slower than I'd like.

I did some more tests to check it:

Atm I am lev 17 Pet Handler.

Bristle training: 1.96-1.98 on 3 different tricks
Panther training: 1.96-1.99 on 3 different tricks
Silver Kanin training: 1.99-2.00 on 2 diffeent tricks
Silver Kanin training: 1.51 when beeing idle for 3 hours

Previously when i was around 12-13 Pet Handler (can't tell exactly becasue at that moment i had no idea it matters):
Bristle training: 1.80-1.85
Panther training: 1.80-1.85
Idle training: 1.20-1.50

This post is for future. I will try to bump my Pet Handler to around 21-23 level and comapre then.

If we have very skilled Pet Handler like 40+ (and i know we have ) - please try measuring your xp/en repeating the test i described in post above.

Falagor

If it is possible to do a quick test I am happy to help, please write down some quick steps and I can test on whatever pet you want. It should be a good comparison as my skillset is substantially above yours so we should see a clear difference if one exists.

To summarize is this the test:

1) Wait until pet has exactly 99% focus and do Greet tricks until it ticks to 98%
2) Feed full the pet
3) Write down current exp and energy (and also energy as %)
4) Do tricks as soon as 99% focus

I did not understand the last part can you elaborate...?

After exactly 1 hour has passed recall pet and note down difference and based on this i calculate xp/en ratio.

Kombinator said:

If it is possible to do a quick test I am happy to help, please write down some quick steps and I can test on whatever pet you want. It should be a good comparison as my skillset is substantially above yours so we should see a clear difference if one exists.

Click to expand...

Falagor said:

(...)
How i make the test:
- i wait until my pet has exactly 99% focus and do Greet tricks untill it ticks to 98% (i know i could wait to 100% but skilling ONLY at 100% may lead to situation when i miss the moment when it ticks 100% and pet does not regen any more focus = idle training which is less eco. I already tested training only at 100% vs at 99-100% and difference is not visible in eco and snd option guarantees i won't alow my pet to be idle skilling even for a second - this was explanation why i start at just under 99% so each test starts and ends exactly at same state of focus).
- i feed full the pet
- i write down current exp and energy (and also energy as % now since now full sometimes is 100.0%, sometime 99.9% and sometimes 99.8% so this is more accurate)
- i note down MA time and set alarm clock after ~58 minutes so i won't miss it.
- i do tricks as soon i see 99% (tested with different tircks will comment about this below (*))
- after exactly 1 hour has passed i recall pet and note down difference and based on this i calulate xp/en ratio.

(*) comment on different tricks:
i have done lots of tests to find "best" trick and tests were on 2 different pets. And it seems that all gave 1.80-1.85 xp/en ratio (at the time of testing). Whats more i repeated tests on each trick few times and they all ranged from 1.80-1.85 so sometimes one was better than the other and sometimes vice versa.
In my observation the times when i got closer to 1.80 were when i had to "recall" few times my pet during the 1 hour (ofc extending those few seconds to full hour spawned and trained) due to i.e. changing tp. So my personal "conclusion" is that when you recall your pet the energy "leftover" is rounded down to full pec. This is just somehing i noticed and it could be that differences 1.80-1.85 come from totally random factor .

Falagor

Click to expand...

So its not "quick" test but exactly 1 hour test (+2-3 minutes preparations ).

Example results of my test:

Pet: Panther
Trick: Dance

Starting focus 98% (it went to 99% and i did one Greet trick so its little under 99%)
Fed full.

Now write down numbers:
Start hour: 15:50:00 MA time
Start XP: 5209.3
Start Energy: 99.9% (= 399.0)

-> now for 1 hour i do not dismiss my pet nor i die nor use tp chip or tps (so i am sure the pet is spawned one full hour) - so plan ahead your actions for 1 full hour (i.e. go hunting in a way you don't die or go sweating or whatever). Doing only Dance trick right after i see it ticks to 99% (it drops to 96% or 97% usually). Try not alowing it to reach 100% since it becomes "idle skilling" that will reduce eco.

End hour: 16:50:00 MA time
End XP: 5255.6
End Energy: 94.1% (= 376.4) (notice that watching % is more accurate than just watching energy now).

So differences:
+46.3 XP
-23.2 energy

xp/en ratio = 1.995

---

The test is really simple and only thing you need to watch for are:
- to not pass full hour (and if so re-scale it so this is not really much problem but at least 1 hour is adviced)
- to not reach 100% focus and not do tricks when under 99% (so do them only at 99%)
- to not dismiss the pet in any way (this is important imo).

@edit:
answer to your edited question . The (*) part is not important - jsut saying that trick type does not matter - bu for exmaple use Dance as i did in the example.

@edit:
Ah th last part you might not understand: i think dismissing pet is bad - this is just my intuition not yet done proper test to confirm it - so please do not dismiss it during one hour . Explained in this post.

Falagor

So get pet to 98%, feed it full, and keep it under 99% for an hour and note the diff in xp and energy, right?

Kombinator said:

So get pet to 98%, feed it full, and keep it under 99% for an hour and note the diff in xp and energy, right?

Click to expand...

Yup . Do it with panther if you have. Rare, Anient or Devils\Dragons have different Metabolic rate than previous common ones and i am not really sure if this can have influence on xp/en ratio .

Falagor

Sure, can do it with panther.

I get 2.03 with an Ancient Strong Daikiba with the greet command @ Level 78 Pet Handler.

There you go, sounds like you get better results at higher levels, but not huge diffs. I am a bit behind you in prof levels chief, good job pulling ahead though

It could be the difference in pet that gives a different costing. Might be worth trying with a panther anyway.

Also I noticed talk of using accurate energy bar percents and wanted to check everyone knew you can get a very accurate reading hovering a mouse over the condition bar when pet is dismissed back to inventory. Also xp is more accurate in the info panel over the status panel. On top of that having the pet dismissed at both the start and the end of test helps to make the hour more precise.

Max Power said:

I get 2.03 with an Ancient Strong Daikiba with the greet command @ Level 78 Pet Handler.

Click to expand...

Thx for testing . This gives some info. But as MarieWoodell said it might be that its different pet.

I will test it soon again (my Pet Handler level is growing so soon should be able to see difference).

I have another test in my mind but it will come after i will reach lev 20 at least in Pet Handler at test.
The test is: to chip out back to lev 12-13 and see what happens. If it stays 1.95-2.00 then it is obvious that somethign has changed and if it drops back to 1.80-1.85 it will be obvious skills matter . This one will be "best" test i guess.

Falagor

MarieWoodell said:

(...)
Also I noticed talk of using accurate energy bar percents and wanted to check everyone knew you can get a very accurate reading hovering a mouse over the condition bar when pet is dismissed back to inventory.
(...)

Click to expand...

Wanted to show what MarieWoodell was talking about - since it is not that obvious. So uploading screenie . Thank yo for the tip .



Panter has: 397.608 energy left (in snd tab it shows only 397.0 so its way off).

Cursor was hovering over the condition bar (EL is not catching cursors).

Falagor

Hi guys

Just following this interresting thread



Best regards

Miggo

Ok - update:

I have reached and passed a little lev 20 in pet handling. Repeated tests as before and still getting 1.96-1.99 results.

Next step (radical): chipping out Animal Tame, Animal Lore and Zoology - completly.

Falagor

Falagor said:

Ok - update:

I have reached and passed a little lev 20 in pet handling. Repeated tests as before and still getting 1.96-1.99 results.

Next step (radical): chipping out Animal Tame, Animal Lore and Zoology - completly.

Falagor

Click to expand...

Can't you just convince your "sister" to join and lend her a pet?

WhiningSkeptic said:

Can't you just convince your "sister" to join and lend her a pet?

Click to expand...

Too late . Skills on chips already . PS: Pet handler is now level... 6 !!!

Besides i am to lazy to make my "sister" to make account and test this experiment there.

Falagor

First hour after chip out... with lev 6 pet handler.

Panther, Dance trick - 1.99 xp/en.

I will do some more testing to confirm but i think first conclusion can be done.

First conclusion:
Either:
- something has changed (and now eco is better) - 99% chance.
- my logs with previous values are wrong - 1% chance (since i really did not change the test nor the way i am training).

Falagor

We are still in Pet Taming Stage I or early phases of the EU Taming economy or implementations as of recently. Ofc, there are still bugs and support cases waiting to be answered on these matters. MA needs to consider these factors before going into or putting out Pet Taming Stage II along with Compets (this is another discussion). Perhaps from all our testings, analzying, gathering/collecting data, and decaying; the answer was always right in front of us...coding areas missing, typos, or incomplete

Falagor said:

First hour after chip out... with lev 6 pet handler.

Panther, Dance trick - 1.99 xp/en.

I will do some more testing to confirm but i think first conclusion can be done.

First conclusion:
Either:
- something has changed (and now eco is better) - 99% chance.
- my logs with previous values are wrong - 1% chance (since i really did not change the test nor the way i am training).

Falagor

Click to expand...

So wouldn't a Pet's 'Training' status (Easy, Average, Hard, etc.) also be affected by your tests as well in terms of Pet Handling skills/levels in lieu to your Conclusions above? Meaning, basically you're testing or verifying your data across all different types of pets (new and old), and referring or comparing data with at least three other avatars that are above level 50 in Pet Handling/Taming who have tested them with all the different pets, right? If you already have done this (considerations); just consider this a bump.

@Edit: Hope that a level 50 pet handler/tamer is not getting nerf'd in regards to an avatar at level 6 pet handler/taming for example that is getting the same or similar exp/eco or results as you have been trying to verify or conclude on this matter. If this is the case and it's confirmed, MA needs to fix the code.

Vi Bitfury said:

(...)
So wouldn't a Pet's 'Training' status (Easy, Average, Hard, etc.) also be affected by your tests as well in terms of Pet Handling skills/levels in lieu to your Conclusions above? Meaning, basically you're testing or verifying your data across all different types of pets (new and old), and referring or comparing data with at least three other avatars that are above level 50 in Pet Handling/Taming who have tested them with all the different pets, right? If you already have done this (considerations); just consider this a bump.

@Edit: Hope that a level 50 pet handler/tamer is not getting nerf'd in regards to an avatar at level 6 pet handler/taming for example that is getting the same or similar exp/eco or results as you have been trying to verify or conclude on this matter. If this is the case and it's confirmed, MA needs to fix the code.

Click to expand...

I am doing tests on Panther (as i started with it) AND on Ruby Kanin (i got it later) but results are almost idetical (1.96-1.99 for Panther and 1.97-2.01 for Ruby Kanin with and without focus buff, focus buff only speeds the training up but keps the eco it seems).

I am guessing that the Daiki that Max Power tested on is slightly better (2.03 as he reported) due the same reason why Ruby Kanin is little better too (probably something to do with hardeness + metabolic conbination - hard to tell). Difference is minimal though.

But imo with current state - it does not matter if you are lev 6 or 66 in Pet Handler - you will train pets with same eco and speed...

At least Tamer level maters a little and seems to work like SIB on guns but on mobs. When aproaching creature above your SIB Tame level - it will have "white bar" on spirit all on the left. And when you are maxed on it - it will be in the middle (ofc the SIB start and maxed is not visible but its what i have figured out with discussing with newbies and more advanced players in taming).
So lev 0 Pet Tamer probably still has chance to tame Hogglo Pygmy Black but will need to bring the spirit much lower (which is probably hard enough if to bring it to half) and i guess with less chance on suceeding (no tests here done - just guess).

Falagor

Falagor said:

At least Tamer level maters a little and seems to work like SIB on guns but on mobs. When aproaching creature above your SIB Tame level - it will have "white bar" on spirit all on the left. And when you are maxed on it - it will be in the middle (ofc the SIB start and maxed is not visible but its what i have figured out with discussing with newbies and more advanced players in taming).
So lev 0 Pet Tamer probably still has chance to tame Hogglo Pygmy Black but will need to bring the spirit much lower (which is probably hard enough if to bring it to half) and i guess with less chance on suceeding (no tests here done - just guess).

Click to expand...

It's a shame that pet handler seems to do nothing but I can confirm that animal tamer acts as you've described. I started at a low lvl and with each new pet to tame have seen the white line on the spirit bar move as you described. Bristles are easiest, then Kanin, Combibo, Cornundacauda, Dragons and finally devils need lvl 7 to get the spirit bar all the way over.