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To gamblers in Entropia. Don't waste Your money!!!

D

Dawid1979

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Mar 25, 2015
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Dawid Burks Bujak
Hi

Many players don't understand how this game works. If You want have fun and don't loose Your money, then think about MARKUP!

Average TT return is ~90%. This means that You shouldn't sell your goods cheaper than 111,11% (without auction fee). If You pay markup for your equipment or tax, then You should sell your goods more pricey.

If You sell your goods at cheaper average price, then You are not player. You are gambler! Meybe You should go to casino. I am sure that adrenaline boost will be stronger :)

Below I present a little bit of calculations. It is compare mining with unamped finder and finder with amplifier lvl13.


Finder: F-105
TT return: 90%
Number of drops: 1700 (100 full lvl13 amp)
Tax of F.O.M.A.: ~5,5%
Tax of HELL 2,5%
Markup of amp lvl13: 133,82%


F.O.M.A.

Unamped finder
Costs:
Finder: 34,85 PED / Survey probes: 1700 PED / Markup: 0 PED
Total costs: 1734,85 PED
Income:
TT return: 1465,95 PED
Minimal average markup of resources: 1734,85 / 1465,95 = 118,34%

With amplifier lvl13
Costs:
Finder: 34,85 PED / Survey probes: 1700 PED / TT of amp 34000 ped / Markup: 11500 PED / Amplifier's residues: -2000 PED
Total costs: 45234,85 PED
Income:
TT return: 28505,95 PED
Minimal average markup of resources: 45234,85 / 28505,95 = 158,69%

If You sell it below minimum price at 110% then
Without amp You lose -122,31 PED
With amp You lose -13878,31 PED

HELL

Unamped finder
Costs:
Finder: 34,85 PED / Survey probes: 1700 PED / Markup: 0 PED
Total costs: 1734,85 PED
Income:
TT return: 1517,99 PED
Minimal average markup of resources: 1734,85 / 1517,99 = 114,29%

With amplifier lvl13
Costs:
Finder: 34,85 PED / Survey probes: 1700 PED / TT of amp 34000 ped / Markup: 11500 PED / Amplifier's residues: -2000 PED
Total costs: 45234,85 PED
Income:
TT return: 29517,99 PED
Minimal average markup of resources: 45234,85 / 29517,99 = 153,25%

If You sell it below minimum price at 110% then
Without amp You lose -65,06 PED
With amp You lose -12765,06 PED


Planets and Monria

Unamped finder
Costs:
Finder: 34,85 PED / Survey probes: 1700 PED / Markup: 0 PED
Total costs: 1734,85 PED
Income:
TT return: 1561,37 PED
Minimal average markup of resources: 1734,85 / 1561,37= 111,11%

With amplifier lvl13
Costs:
Finder: 34,85 PED / Survey probes: 1700 PED / TT of amp 34000 ped / Markup: 11500 PED / Amplifier's residues: -2000 PED
Total costs: 45234,85 PED
Income:
TT return: 30361,37 PED
Minimal average markup of resources: 45234,85 / 30361,37 = 148,99%

If You sell it below minimum price at 110% then
Without amp You lose -17,34 PED
With amp You lose -11837,34 PED

Even if You found 30k PED claim. If You don't start thinking, then in long term You loose everything. Everytime when You attach high amplifier You accept loss.

This game could be like a few years ago. Just start thinking and count. Stop gambling! Start playing!
 
Last edited:
Hi & welcome to forum... very good 1st post. +rep:)

Cheers,
Robo
 
Gamblers mostly not playin to profit but the thrill of hofs globals aths and if they were to play 'smart' as u say, game would die in no time as they turn the most peds
 
i could deny it :)

ask all gamblers who got that 100k+ hofs , they will say same :)

grinders life is all about stable 90% retrun or 95%

gamblers return is about finding time, place and hit :)


grinders live from markup because they hunt most of time.

gamblers live from lucky hits and does it inf xxx less time that makes them gamblers.

i could agreee with you if gambler would gamble 24h/7day than he probably loose.
 
all i can say is lol :D

If everyone sold their stuff over the price they spend then prices would keep increasing until bubble bursts...

If there were no "Gamblers" then there would be no economy (as prices would keep rising with every cycle...)

What you are saying can be done only on items that are rare and you have monopoly, everything else undercutting will lead to price drops.

If you mine for lyst and need to get atleast 111% for it, then someone else is willing to sell his at 110% so he can buy new gear and try again..


So i see what you are trying to say, but it is impossible to do in 90% tt return economy.

There is no escape from that tt loss, no matter how much ppl overvalue their stuff, as they are the consumers also and they have to buy products made from those loots they have sold overvalued... etc
 
Several gamblers maybe earn something and withdraw money, but most of them had lost a lot of money. They also reduce the prices of resources and slowly destroy the game.
 
A tip

Im not really a gambler or a pec saver, so this is what I do to help economy.
When I need some low MU stuff from auction and end up having to pay +1ped independant of the amount I need, I buy the biggest lot, use the stuff I need and TT the rest. Low MU stuff needs to be consumed to get prices up.
(I dont even care to try to sell the rest at +1ped, cause the chance of ending having to pay auction fee is high)
 
whiteknut said:
all i can say is lol :D

If everyone sold their stuff over the price they spend then prices would keep increasing until bubble bursts...

If there were no "Gamblers" then there would be no economy (as prices would keep rising with every cycle...)

What you are saying can be done only on items that are rare and you have monopoly, everything else undercutting will lead to price drops.

If you mine for lyst and need to get atleast 111% for it, then someone else is willing to sell his at 110% so he can buy new gear and try again..


So i see what you are trying to say, but it is impossible to do in 90% tt return economy.

There is no escape from that tt loss, no matter how much ppl overvalue their stuff, as they are the consumers also and they have to buy products made from those loots they have sold overvalued... etc
Click to expand...

I disagree with you. Gamblers destroy economy. Remember how it was a few years ago while it was less gamblers in game.
 
Just to add to my last post:

Tip used by OP scenario:

1. Player named Anna and Crafter named Beta

Anna uses 10ped gun that he paid 120% for (12ped total) and uses 50 ped of ammo before weapon is broken.
So Anna spent 62ped on that run.
Anna gets 90% tt back = 54ped

Anna sells all his loot to Beta for markup to break even at 115% (to get 62.1ped from Beta).

Beta now crafts weapons and uses 54ped mats he got from Anna to craft the very same weapon Anna bought before. He gets back 90ped tt return which is 48,6.

Now Beta needs to sell these guns atleast at 62.1ped (as thats the sum he paid to Anna) so new price of the gun is 128%

And we are back the beginning.. Anna now has to pay 12.8ped for the 10 ped tt gun and thus making her expenses higher and price of loot also, so when Beta buys the loot he pays more than last time making the end product even more expensive.



This kind of system cant work as after just few cycles the price of the gun will be 1k%.
 
whiteknut said:
Just to add to my last post:

Tip used by OP scenario:

1. Player named Anna and Crafter named Beta

Anna uses 10ped gun that he paid 120% for (12ped total) and uses 50 ped of ammo before weapon is broken.
So Anna spent 62ped on that run.
Anna gets 90% tt back = 54ped

Anna sells all his loot to Beta for markup to break even at 115% (to get 62.1ped from Beta).

Beta now crafts weapons and uses 54ped mats he got from Anna to craft the very same weapon Anna bought before. He gets back 90ped tt return which is 48,6.

Now Beta needs to sell these guns atleast at 62.1ped (as thats the sum he paid to Anna) so new price of the gun is 128%

And we are back the beginning.. Anna now has to pay 12.8ped for the 10 ped tt gun and thus making her expenses higher and price of loot also, so when Beta buys the loot he pays more than last time making the end product even more expensive.



This kind of system cant work as after just few cycles the price of the gun will be 1k%.
Click to expand...

Don't forget omega, he got a UL gun and is withdrawing on a daily basis :wise:
Omega undercut Anna, beta only buy from omega.
Anna wait 1 year with no money cycled and quit EU.
 
Dawid1979 said:
Average TT return is ~90%. This means that You shouldn't sell your goods cheaper than 111,11% (without auction fee). If You pay markup for your equipment or tax, then You should sell your goods more pricey.

If You sell your goods at cheaper average price, then You are not player. You are gambler! Meybe You should go to casino. I am sure that adrenaline boost will be stronger :)
Click to expand...

Selling shrapnel 112%
Selling weapon cell 112%
Selling BLP ammo 112%

Nobody buying why the f...?

So TT gets the ammo, shrapnel converted at 101%, seems I am a gambler, am I ?

Even if I am miner, who pay 112% for Oil, Lyst, Lanorium, Melchi whatever ?????

Now we get to the crafters:
Anybody a melee weapon L at 112% ????
Nobody buying it!!!! It would be same like paying 112% for weapon cells!
Selling LVL2 amp 112% LOL most of it went to TT only a few get sold at auctions or PvP trades :D

Come on, there is huge oversupply of nearly everything, you can´t get 112% on most loots, proffession doesn´t matter!

Why we got that huge oversupply?
There is to much uL items that beat every crafted L item in eco, dps, efficence.
So nobody wants to craft this items as it is not competitive to looted items, not sellable!

No crafting no demand for resources!

Additionallly MA introduced Explo BP that uses materials available at TT, so if someone likes to gamble with crafting, why should he pay markup for resources, when it could be done for TT.

Actually I am not against this explo BPs, fair enough that its possible to gamble in crafting on TT input the same way as hunters and miners could do it last 10 years.

To survive in EU you need to find niches, special loots that are needed. If you find a niche use it as long at it is possible.
Sooner or later many will find that specific niche and start doing what you do, that will drop your markup, then its time to move on and find another niche.

EU is challanging, not easy to survive without losses.
Luckily some don´t care about some losses and just have fun, well count me to that group!
That doesn´t make me a gambler!
 
Good post OP but you are not undersanding the pycology of the Gambler. They will spend 300,000PED to get a 50,000PED tower. Its not about money in money out it is about bragging rights getting the big hit. Just like the one that pays $480USD for a coat in EU. Its all about getting the attention. People will pay a lot of money to be a celebrity in game.
 
GoNi said:
Why we got that huge oversupply?
There is to much uL items that beat every crafted L item in eco, dps, efficence.
So nobody wants to craft this items as it is not competitive to looted items, not sellable!
Click to expand...

You can add to that the players are encourage to grind, grind and grind some more to complete missions with many only considering the reward at the end, then looking at the stacks they collect and dumping them asap to carry on.
 
Would be good to clear up what 90% return actually is so ppl dont get confused and think they will always have 90% of their deposits here.

Accound balance 1000ped and doing mining for example:

90% = 900 ped
90% = 810 ped
90% = 729 ped
90% = 656 ped
90% = 591 ped

And so on untill your balance is 100 ped, you say WTF and deposit again.
That cycle will always be like that MA has bills to pay every month and it will never change.
 
StefanT said:
Would be good to clear up what 90% return actually is so ppl dont get confused and think they will always have 90% of their deposits here.

Accound balance 1000ped and doing mining for example:

90% = 900 ped
90% = 810 ped
90% = 729 ped
90% = 656 ped
90% = 591 ped

And so on untill your balance is 100 ped, you say WTF and deposit again.
That cycle will always be like that MA has bills to pay every month and it will never change.
Click to expand...

you are very true...
when hunter shoots the looted ammo and shrapnel too he already started second cycle and is below that 90% from the full 1000 ped...
thats where most of the "i get 70% return" comes from..
 
GoNi said:
Selling shrapnel 112%
Selling weapon cell 112%
Selling BLP ammo 112%

Nobody buying why the f...?

So TT gets the ammo, shrapnel converted at 101%, seems I am a gambler, am I ?

Even if I am miner, who pay 112% for Oil, Lyst, Lanorium, Melchi whatever ?????

Now we get to the crafters:
Anybody a melee weapon L at 112% ????
Nobody buying it!!!! It would be same like paying 112% for weapon cells!
Selling LVL2 amp 112% LOL most of it went to TT only a few get sold at auctions or PvP trades :D

Come on, there is huge oversupply of nearly everything, you can´t get 112% on most loots, proffession doesn´t matter!

Why we got that huge oversupply?
There is to much uL items that beat every crafted L item in eco, dps, efficence.
So nobody wants to craft this items as it is not competitive to looted items, not sellable!

No crafting no demand for resources!

Additionallly MA introduced Explo BP that uses materials available at TT, so if someone likes to gamble with crafting, why should he pay markup for resources, when it could be done for TT.

Actually I am not against this explo BPs, fair enough that its possible to gamble in crafting on TT input the same way as hunters and miners could do it last 10 years.

To survive in EU you need to find niches, special loots that are needed. If you find a niche use it as long at it is possible.
Sooner or later many will find that specific niche and start doing what you do, that will drop your markup, then its time to move on and find another niche.

EU is challanging, not easy to survive without losses.
Luckily some don´t care about some losses and just have fun, well count me to that group!
That doesn´t make me a gambler!
Click to expand...

I wrote to sell at minimum AVERAGE price. This means You can sell lyst at 105% and niks at 118%. Your AVERAGE markup is 112%.
 
StefanT said:
Would be good to clear up what 90% return actually is so ppl dont get confused and think they will always have 90% of their deposits here.

Accound balance 1000ped and doing mining for example:

90% = 900 ped
90% = 810 ped
90% = 729 ped
90% = 656 ped
90% = 591 ped

And so on untill your balance is 100 ped, you say WTF and deposit again.
That cycle will always be like that MA has bills to pay every month and it will never change.
Click to expand...

You're right. For many players markup and TT return is black magic.
 
Magnus Mag said:
you are very true...
when hunter shoots the looted ammo and shrapnel too he already started second cycle and is below that 90% from the full 1000 ped...
thats where most of the "i get 70% return" comes from..
Click to expand...

Thats the only way it can be they got a recuring payments every month and that all comes from deposits. Its like every other business its just not good for ppl to belive in dreams this is reality.

And you do that a couple days in a row and it becomes 50% then 30% and eventually 0%
 
Last edited:
whiteknut said:
a


So i see what you are trying to say, but it is impossible to do in 90% tt return economy.

There is no escape from that tt loss, no matter how much ppl overvalue their stuff, as they are the consumers also and they have to buy products made from those loots they have sold overvalued... etc
Click to expand...

that's it right there! bam!
 
This is why the over-inflated markups of hunting and mining resources pre-vu 10 was so nice..

average mining markup near 140-150% depending on enmatter or ore..

Animal oils, hides, and looted guns were at least over 120%.. I think animal hide was actually 160% at one point..

Sure crafted items were more expensive.. But it made the economy more dynamic.. less stable yes... but more dynamic and in the end more rewarding, and potentially more profitable (for players, not really MA). :wise:
 
who dares wins :D
 
Dawid1979 said:
Who cares... Maybe a few of gamblers win, but many of them lose all and destroy economy in game.
Click to expand...

How do they destroy the economy? By buying tons of resources and using them up? By selling stuff cheap that people normally wouldn't craft because there is no profit in it?

Or is it perhaps your definition of a gambler that screws things up? What about those who don't mind a loss and only plays for fun? Those are gamblers too according to your definition.
 
The "public enemy" sure has changed. Once it was the resellers and now its the gamblers.
who's next ? Eco players, one time depositors, investors ?

Make your guess
 
Fiona Simmons said:
The "public enemy" sure has changed. Once it was the resellers and now its the gamblers.
who's next ? Eco players, one time depositors, investors ?

Make your guess
Click to expand...

Public Enemy: Kunard

How the hell could he hit a 177k ATH, thats killing the markup for residue and that kills all EU economy.
He is sooooo evil, must be a cheater.

sarcasm off
 
I`m guessing he means by "destroying the game" those gamblers that explode in rage once a year/month/week and then publish negative comments all over the net... or those that ragequit and cry all over net on different forums..lol

Impossibe to destroy such a small and regulated economy only by playing... I think only reputation or some legal process can kill our beloved gambling grounds...lol

Thats how I see It. And Its good that some ppl take so much time to gather the intel on numbers and show what and how can be played also.

Cheers,
Robo
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
How do they destroy the economy? By buying tons of resources and using them up? By selling stuff cheap that people normally wouldn't craft because there is no profit in it?

Or is it perhaps your definition of a gambler that screws things up? What about those who don't mind a loss and only plays for fun? Those are gamblers too according to your definition.
Click to expand...

They want to selling fast thier resources. They lower prices. Mining mania event is excellent example.
 
Dawid1979 said:
They want to selling fast thier resources. They lower prices. Mining mania event is excellent example.
Click to expand...

The resource list was given out well in advance. Wouldn't a smart miner mine for other resources and store the effected resources until price recovers?
 
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