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Petition to remove Explosive BPs (or change them)

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here is an idea:

why not remove nano cube from TT the day ammo and bomb become crafted item ?
so everyone would have something with MU as main prof suply.
 
Etopia said:
here is an idea:

why not remove nano cube from TT the day ammo and bomb become crafted item ?
so everyone would have something with MU as main prof suply.
Click to expand...

Crafted ammo and probes not doable in 90% return economy :)

Miner/Hunter cyle 1000 PED - return 900 PED
Crafter produces ammo/probes out of 900 PED - return 810 PED
Miner/Hunter now can cycle only 810 PED - return 729 PED
...
market will run dry of everything
 
How is that good for game that players loose money on Explo Bp? Anyway its like external app not connected to entropia, its like saying its good that entropia players went to casino and lost money in slots.Good for casino for sure.


Level IV explo costs 20ped/click its exactly like mining foma with unl 13 amp, how that would be good for this game if you could buy unl lvl13 amp for even tt+20k ped?
All ores enmats would end the same like metal res 101% at best anyway who would buy it if there would be lvl13 in TT.



Hunters who hunt big mobs buy L equipment to be able to shoot them,and pay big mu on it.I would say 90% players do that way not counting those few ubers who owns UNL top gear.

Miners pay Markup to gamble with high amps indoor.


UNL items ofc are bad i would love to see new crafted L items better than UNL versions, but all of this UNL stuff didn't make that huge negative impact on economy in entropia like this one BP.
Demand is all time time lowest, how that could be a good sign of growing economy?


Changing Explo Bp would be first step to fix this, instead we have new event with new bath of UNL items and no signs of new better BPs.


Few guys said that everything is balancing,yes but in which way? If we won't see changes soon everyone will get just 100.5% Mu at best.And it would be fair,all profession with avg 100.5% mu. This kind of game we want to have?

Now miners got huge kick i wont say where, what if next vu will bring lvl10+ amps,top finders,enhancers and best hunting stuff to tt?


What would happen to crafters then? What kind of niche they would find? Affiliate program? Still you would say ok let them run with those lvl 13 on foma anyway they loose money because there is no mu on any ores so that's good for the game?

How this road would end?

Hunters would get just sharpnel

Miners would get anyway 0% mu,or they change ores/enmats for some kind of "mining sharpnel"

No need for auction house.

Crafters would just continue to click Explo IV or maybe V-VI whats the diference.


And then instead of MMO RCE we have single player casino game with nice graphic.
If we don't show our dissatisfaction it will end like this, why few of you guys want that?
 
Lukasz said:
How is that good for game that players loose money on Explo Bp? Anyway its like external app not connected to entropia, its like saying its good that entropia players went to casino and lost money in slots.Good for casino for sure.
Click to expand...

MA has to pay bills.
If MA can´t pay bills, go bankrupt, EU dies, everybody in here lost everything!
MA live from decay (players loss), thats why we have average return of 90%, the 10% average loss is what MA needs to run EU.
It is needed that players lose PED!

Lukasz said:
Level IV explo costs 20ped/click its exactly like mining foma with unl 13 amp, how that would be good for this game if you could buy unl lvl13 amp for even tt+20k ped?
All ores enmats would end the same like metal res 101% at best anyway who would buy it if there would be lvl13 in TT.
Click to expand...
OK, turnover might be a little to high, reducing it by at least 50% could be done without problem.

Lukasz said:
Hunters who hunt big mobs buy L equipment to be able to shoot them,and pay big mu on it.I would say 90% players do that way not counting those few ubers who owns UNL top gear.
Click to expand...
If it would be only a few UBERs owning uL gear, it would be fine! Nearly everybody got uL gear these days.

Lukasz said:
Miners pay Markup to gamble with high amps indoor.
Click to expand...
Crafers gamble with f.e. Dynera Sights and many other BPs, paying MU, too.
Hunters gamble killing big mobs, like sandking (shared), vanguards (solo), not all need to pay markup doing that, as said nearly everybody owns some uL gear these days (me included)

Lukasz said:
UNL items ofc are bad i would love to see new crafted L items better than UNL versions, but all of this UNL stuff didn't make that huge negative impact on economy in entropia like this one BP.
Demand is all time time lowest, how that could be a good sign of growing economy?
Click to expand...
Just wrong, especially the uL SIB gear mid levels to high levels has got extreme impact on economy.
A lot less resources get consumed to craft L, for SIB skillers. To much uL SIB in the mid and high levels available to use SIB. Old stuff, we had that discussion already some years ago.

Lukasz said:
Changing Explo Bp would be first step to fix this, instead we have new event with new bath of UNL items and no signs of new better BPs.
Click to expand...
Well introduction of that BP was first step into right direction, as it put crafters in position to be able to play without paying MU, what hunters and crafters all time could do! Fairness !

Lukasz said:
Few guys said that everything is balancing,yes but in which way? If we won't see changes soon everyone will get just 100.5% Mu at best.And it would be fair,all profession with avg 100.5% mu. This kind of game we want to have?
Click to expand...

There is still a lot things that have MU, and I am sure markup on this will stay high, f.e. Chalmon, Gold, Ruga, Dunkle, Langoz
A lot less good things come from hunting, without items in loot a hunter is really f...ed. Thats not caused by Explo BP, it was already befor introduction of it.

Lukasz said:
Now miners got huge kick i wont say where, what if next vu will bring lvl10+ amps,top finders,enhancers and best hunting stuff to tt?
Click to expand...
Miners always claimed that it is easy to always break even or profit from MU.
Now miners need to adjust, as it isn´t that easy anymore, but still possible.
Nothing wrong with that imho.

Lukasz said:
What would happen to crafters then? What kind of niche they would find? Affiliate program? Still you would say ok let them run with those lvl 13 on foma anyway they loose money because there is no mu on any ores so that's good for the game?
Click to expand...
A lot crafters don´t gamble, they craft items to sell to other players (not to TT) with MU, to craft this items, they need resources, which still come from mining and hunting. Only the gambler part, doesn´t need to buy ores and enmatters. Crafters who try to break even or profit from MU out of products, surely don´t click Explo BP, but buy some of the residue generated out of it.

Lukasz said:
How this road would end?

Hunters would get just sharpnel

Miners would get anyway 0% mu,or they change ores/enmats for some kind of "mining sharpnel"

No need for auction house.

Crafters would just continue to click Explo IV or maybe V-VI whats the diference.


And then instead of MMO RCE we have single player casino game with nice graphic.
If we don't show our dissatisfaction it will end like this, why few of you guys want that?
Click to expand...

You are seeing to black, try to be little more optimistic.
Market will stabilize, and then we will see what is left with markup, what is worth to get crafted, what is worth be mined, and what mob is worth to be hunted.
Smart players will adapt to the new situation, same as they had to do in the past several times, when new things got introduced.
 
I see we can agree in few points.

Unl items are bad but instead of introducing new crafted L ones we get new batch of unl weapons from events,boosts from web store,more bounded items and this Explo Bp.
If you say UNl mid-hig lvl weapons are but i dont get why you say Explo Bp is good.

Reducing tt value on lvl IV i dont know about that,i still think it would better if it would use at least some part of mats from our economy.

I was saying what if we'll see high amps and other end game stuff in TT.
Lets say MA would put only mining amps in TT, crafters could still profit on other things like enhancers,armors,faps,finders, but is that good?It would have huge negative impact on crafters they could still profit on other this but let's be honest that's not how it should look like.They would do like 90% less stuff for sale?

You say its right direction, so just an example would it be good to see mining amps in TT?
 
The best thing would be to put the loot in the TT , buy 0,9 ped loot for 1 ped then sell and repeat.
 
Lukasz said:
I see we can agree in few points.

Unl items are bad but instead of introducing new crafted L ones we get new batch of unl weapons from events,boosts from web store,more bounded items and this Explo Bp.
If you say UNl mid-hig lvl weapons are but i dont get why you say Explo Bp is good.

Reducing tt value on lvl IV i dont know about that,i still think it would better if it would use at least some part of mats from our economy.

I was saying what if we'll see high amps and other end game stuff in TT.
Lets say MA would put only mining amps in TT, crafters could still profit on other things like enhancers,armors,faps,finders, but is that good?It would have huge negative impact on crafters they could still profit on other this but let's be honest that's not how it should look like.They would do like 90% less stuff for sale?

You say its right direction, so just an example would it be good to see mining amps in TT?
Click to expand...

Why Explo is good?
Again:
Hunter can buy uL gear, to safe MU, no MU on ammo
Miner can buy uL gear, go unamped, no MU just probes
Crafters can craft explo, no MU just something out of TT

For the fairness, something like Explo BP is needed.
Befor Explo every crafter, had to pay MU, even if he just wanted to gamble little, no matter if high or low stakes.

Compared to other proffession,
it was like a hunter would have to buy his ammo with MU
it was like a miner would have to pay MU for his probes.

Thats just not fair for crafters, something that could be done for crafters without the need to pay markup, was long time overdue.

If MA really go back and removes the explo BP, then please remove all existing uL gear for miners and hunters aswell, so that it is no longer possible for any proffession, to play without paying MU. Just for fairness!

Removing all uL doable ?
No, to much MU already paid for uL gear, many things sold in 5 digit PED range, a few sold in the 6 digit PED range.
MA can´t compensate for the investments, players already did for this items, so remove uL is just not doable.

As there is no way to remove uL from EU, there has to be an option for crafters, to play at TT input only aswell.
Personally I would go one step further and add Explo I BP at technican, and remove the other component BP from it. If done so a absolutely new player could go to technican, buy the BP, buy some nanocubes at TT and start crafting.
Why that?
Absolute new player can go to TT, buy a gun buy some ammo and start hunting!
Absolute new player can go to TT, buy finder, buy excavator, some probes and start mining!

You see there is obvious disadvantage for players who want to start as crafters, they need to buy resource with MU to start, or they need to buy the BP with markup to start, no way to get started without buying something from other players, and that is wrong imo.

From economical point of view it is wrong that it is possible to play for TT only, at higher levels, but as it is possible it should be possible for all.

Explo IV maybe a shot to far, due to it is enourmous turnover its out of balance.
Removing it completely not an good option, adding additional ingredents not a good option aswell, because then it wouldn´t be a TT only BP anymore.

It could be adjusted, just by reducing the nanocubes needed / click, and increase of level, what I already said in former post.

BTW, it would be possible to have a functional economy, even if there is only uL items. But in that case there has to be regularly new items, that are always better than what already exists. Thats just not the case in EU, some items that have been f...ing best in game 10 years ago, still is f...ing best ingame. Thats one of the biggest fails I see, its protectionism by MA to save old players investments. Protectionism is always and everywhere wrong!
 
GoNi said:
Why Explo is good?
Again:
Hunter can buy uL gear, to safe MU, no MU on ammo
Miner can buy uL gear, go unamped, no MU just probes
Crafters can craft explo, no MU just something out of TT

For the fairness, something like Explo BP is needed.
Befor Explo every crafter, had to pay MU, even if he just wanted to gamble little, no matter if high or low stakes.

Compared to other proffession,
it was like a hunter would have to buy his ammo with MU
it was like a miner would have to pay MU for his probes.

Thats just not fair for crafters, something that could be done for crafters without the need to pay markup, was long time overdue.

If MA really go back and removes the explo BP, then please remove all existing uL gear for miners and hunters aswell, so that it is no longer possible for any proffession, to play without paying MU. Just for fairness!

Removing all uL doable ?
No, to much MU already paid for uL gear, many things sold in 5 digit PED range, a few sold in the 6 digit PED range.
MA can´t compensate for the investments, players already did for this items, so remove uL is just not doable.

As there is no way to remove uL from EU, there has to be an option for crafters, to play at TT input only aswell.
Personally I would go one step further and add Explo I BP at technican, and remove the other component BP from it. If done so a absolutely new player could go to technican, buy the BP, buy some nanocubes at TT and start crafting.
Why that?
Absolute new player can go to TT, buy a gun buy some ammo and start hunting!
Absolute new player can go to TT, buy finder, buy excavator, some probes and start mining!

You see there is obvious disadvantage for players who want to start as crafters, they need to buy resource with MU to start, or they need to buy the BP with markup to start, no way to get started without buying something from other players, and that is wrong imo.

From economical point of view it is wrong that it is possible to play for TT only, at higher levels, but as it is possible it should be possible for all.

Explo IV maybe a shot to far, due to it is enourmous turnover its out of balance.
Removing it completely not an good option, adding additional ingredents not a good option aswell, because then it wouldn´t be a TT only BP anymore.

It could be adjusted, just by reducing the nanocubes needed / click, and increase of level, what I already said in former post.

BTW, it would be possible to have a functional economy, even if there is only uL items. But in that case there has to be regularly new items, that are always better than what already exists. Thats just not the case in EU, some items that have been f...ing best in game 10 years ago, still is f...ing best ingame. Thats one of the biggest fails I see, its protectionism by MA to save old players investments. Protectionism is always and everywhere wrong!
Click to expand...


Yes new player can go buy a gun and start shooting but he pays decay and defence costs,miners decay from finder,excavator,refiner so at start they are paying around 103-104%

Level I Explo Bp in technician why not no harm done.In non changed version of this BP i think fair would be to leave it till Lvl III, you are right we have few medium UNL mining amps in game(they still pay decay on all other mining items tho)so why not to have crafting BP at 2ped/click pure tt.

Im happy you said LVL IV is out of balance and i think all this drama is just because of this level, its just to huge and to common(like LVL2 mining amp BP)
Im sure if we would see lvl 13 amps from TT we would see exactly the same thread to change that.
 
Kinda weird, quite a few of the people who signed have had very big hofs with the explosive blueprint. Yet they want to protest. It seems quite likely that they know this petition doesn't matter much and is only a boost to public nobility ranking. May as well sign it for free reputation boost amirite?
 
i thought some and i think next vu we will get sth like shrapnel in mining...
 
Magnus Mag said:
i thought some and i think next vu we will get sth like shrapnel in mining...
Click to expand...

lvl 10 in prosp - 10% ore, 90% of shrapnel
lvl 50 in prosp - 50% ore, 50% of shrapnel
lvl 100+ in prosp - 100% ore

;)
 
Lukasz said:
Yes new player can go buy a gun and start shooting but he pays decay and defence costs,miners decay from finder,excavator,refiner so at start they are paying around 103-104%
Click to expand...

???
Anything from TT cost 103-104%
???
:scratch2:

Am I stupid, never seen anything at TT to cost more than TT :eyecrazy:

And about decay:

1 click 400 nanocubes - failed <--- what is this win/profit/break even or just 400 nanocubes decayed ????

I don´t get your point, sorry.
 
Add me but think they should be modified to require 1000 Shrapnel per Cube
 
GoNi said:
Crafted ammo and probes not doable in 90% return economy :)

Miner/Hunter cyle 1000 PED - return 900 PED
Crafter produces ammo/probes out of 900 PED - return 810 PED
Miner/Hunter now can cycle only 810 PED - return 729 PED
...
market will run dry of everything
Click to expand...

i know , you can do

nano cube for TT , and something else from loot to make MU

like sweat , or nutriobar
 
GoNi said:
???
Anything from TT cost 103-104%
???
:scratch2:

Am I stupid, never seen anything at TT to cost more than TT :eyecrazy:

And about decay:

1 click 400 nanocubes - failed <--- what is this win/profit/break even or just 400 nanocubes decayed ????

I don´t get your point, sorry.
Click to expand...

He means that decay of mining tools is not included in the tt return, unlike hunting, where the only extra costs are armor/fap decay, which can be minimized in various ways.

One example, mining with TerraMaster6 at 120% unamped, basically your input is at 110.49% for enmatters, 105.24% for ores. Amps in this case actually can increase eco, but are not always practical, for ex. when going after rares. Plust the excavator and refiner decay, which adds additional 1-2%.
 
Asking for MindArk to remove explosive is like asking MindArk to put the game back in the state it was before explosive, and then before it came ingame, many people could ask for some cool stuff we had that got removed before, and then before it.. We can go on forever like that.


So the question is more about what will happen from here.

We might be in a time of drastical change with good stuff at the end, or could be getting away from a game that used to be labeled as a real economy, with obviously loads of profitable ventures too, more in the past than now most likely.

At least for a "professional player".

From a newbie view, it seems way more attracting than before, and newbie does not remember about any of old times, and in the same times, even those who remember about old times, still whined about anything and were thinking about ... old times... when they actually were part of those "old times" ..

My own conclusion is that asking them to remove explosive without actually understanding why explosive is there in the first place is a wrong approach.

It is not because of explosives that things are badder at this moment, it is because of the road map mindark is currently following, for the good of themselves, for the good of the platform, and good of the game, and generally, the good of the overall player base.

If explosive are there, and stay there, it's part of the big equation, and prolly part of making the game way cheaper in a way.

I keep an optimistic view on the whole thing, as I imagine a lot of positive change that will also come at some points.

You don't change things over night, especially in a real economical model.

That being said, who knows what's next ? Nerfs ? Whole new game with whole kind of new features ?

Only Klas and Mindark know.

ps: Obviously, I don't feel like I should sign that petition according to my own opinion, and statement I just made, although, I too don't like to see the explosives stories.
 
Last edited:
xXSqUaLLXx said:
You don't change things over night, especially in a real economical model.
Click to expand...

But overnight, we hunters loot 90% ammo
feel free to explain why that is any good for anyone
 
from my point of view why not use stuff from miner and hunter whit low mu like list and oil oh dam the cut the oil from hunter whit shrapnel

so more stuff that normaly get tt from hunter and minors get crafted maybe that was to hard for them to implement

from when a started crafter alway crafted and tt most of there stuff

if they want poeple to stop mining and hunting let them only buy 10 bullet one bullet per kill amke it 10 ped per bullet what you get is what you get stuff should realyu dry up
same whit miner 10 for 10 ped each

anyway this is probly my last post unless i need advice how to chip out my 220k skill the way i see it there more insterested in new stuff than fixing what dont work

make somthing for miner and hunter so they can do there own stuff whit out the need of others profession
 
Tycoon said:
I think you misunderstand my post!

all I mean is if you're going to craft something like (L) weapons that will sell with some mu, it's understandable that the mats needed would have some markup... however if you're going to craft ammo, it seems like there shouldn't be any problem with the mats being from the TT!

does it make sense that mined resources that might normally sell for 110% would be used to craft ammo?

I know I wouldn't want to have to buy ammo from the TT for 110% to hunt!

I get the issue with residue, but shouldn't this petition be to remove residue from ammo crafting returns, not remove the BP? people have paid big money for the BPs, and invested in their quality ratings!
Click to expand...

STOP

I understand anyone who wants to make a few peds from whatever source they can. I am not a purist IRL or in game about peds. I agree with your sentiments, but disagree when we get led down a false trail is all.

There are potentially a million ways to profit, as crafters and miners, and indeed hunters from bps.

This though stinks of cheap and nasty.
 
Add me to your list.

I also came back after more than a year of break and hate to see another mistake from MA on their huge mistakes list.

There`s really no need to argue that its ruining economy and ruining the game.
Gamblers will always gamble, its in their nature, no need to please them with TT chips.
Just wonder how many clicks are clicked so far on this BP and imagine if they are made with hunting/mining loot.
 
I suggest they keep the BP and remove nanocubes from TT and put them in loot. That should make most everyone happy. :beerchug:
 
add a npc that cycled any item of its TT value to nanocubes. This would solve used limited guns.
 
NNG said:
add a npc that cycled any item of its TT value to nanocubes. This would solve used limited guns.
Click to expand...

Now that's a good idea there.
 
Bump. :bump:
 
Add me to the list

Don't mind the gambling component of the crafting game. But a bit of variety like we had before this BP came in would be nice.

Cannot and do not want to compete with 20 ped clicks.

Edit: Don't think removal is realistic or even fair to people who bought the bp for gazillions of peds. Changing it does sound doable though

suggestion:

BP I = add 1 nova
BP II = add 10 nova & 1 blazar
BP III = add 100 nova & 10 blazar
BP IV = add 1000 nova & 100 blazar
 
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FYI: Solution for EU is easy. Just ask to remove quantity - condition slider. And all will be ok :laugh:
 
Gewitter said:
FYI: Solution for EU is easy. Just ask to remove quantity - condition slider. And all will be ok :laugh:
Click to expand...

Well remove all mining amps, too
 
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