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Question: Why is EP BP Gambling?

It ain't unless you make it so. 200 clicks on a IV bp is gambling. 20000 on the other hand tells a whole different story. Just like 200 ped ammo on Daspletor is gambling. However 20000 ped tells a whole different story. Just like 200 ped mining on F.O.M.A is gambling. However 20000 ped may tell a whole different story.
The reason why they added nanocubes to TT was too lower the MU of residue in thus affect the MU of items and cheaper amps. In turn resources (mining) got lower. This is all in their scheme to make everything lower MU increase TT in, lower TT out.
 
JohnCapital said:
Folks complained about the explosive ammo looting situation prior to that?
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I don't understand that logic, to increase drop rate on exp ammo in loot MindArk decides to release exp bp's to flood the market thus lowering MU on various items/resources on all professions?
Seems to me MA lacks the brain cells to think a few steps ahead, or even consider a few scenario's before implementing.
 
if i can buy amo from the tt machine line the nanacube why cant i have a gun from the tt machine that dont decay like the crafting machine they use it would be the same

i got a good sujestiong for ma make you have to buy crafting machine and decay like guns or like mining finders t diferent rates

maybe there would be a crafting machine like the mk2 guns that would sell for 100ks

too realy have a good economie every profession need to buy from each other not from MA other wise in the long run it not looking good
 
So it seems it's the high cost per click versions of this bp that most folks are mad at, yeah?
 
JD RACING said:
if i can buy amo from the tt machine line the nanacube why cant i have a gun from the tt machine that dont decay like the crafting machine they use it would be the same

i got a good sujestiong for ma make you have to buy crafting machine and decay like guns or like mining finders t diferent rates

maybe there would be a crafting machine like the mk2 guns that would sell for 100ks

too realy have a good economie every profession need to buy from each other not from MA other wise in the long run it not looking good
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Sounds great but don't forget to add QR to SIB weapons meaning that you must cycle hundreds of thousands before you max them no matter how high your skills are...

I think people fail to see that every SIB bp starts with a shitty return due to 80% cos. An IV bp at 100QR has already had additional losses of a shitton while being worked up.
 
Sub-Zero said:
It ain't unless you make it so. 200 clicks on a IV bp is gambling. 20000 on the other hand tells a whole different story. Just like 200 ped ammo on Daspletor is gambling. However 20000 ped tells a whole different story. Just like 200 ped mining on F.O.M.A is gambling. However 20000 ped may tell a whole different story.
The reason why they added nanocubes to TT was too lower the MU of residue in thus affect the MU of items and cheaper amps. In turn resources (mining) got lower. This is all in their scheme to make everything lower MU increase TT in, lower TT out.
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You should listen to this man as he is speaking well :)
 
JohnCapital said:
So it seems it's the high cost per click versions of this bp that most folks are mad at, yeah?
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Basically yes, it allows interaction with loot system at a high-end level (20 peds per click, that's like mining with lvl13 or killing dasps) with no involvement in the actual economy. It's just Trade terminal -> Crafting machine and back.

Imho for the RCE economy to function, all professions must be linked and have a demand for resources from each other, either directly, or indirectly in form of crafted items.
 
Moonbiter said:
Imho for the RCE economy to function, all professions must be linked and have a demand for resources from each other, either directly, or indirectly in form of crafted items.
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Old hunters or miners with all UL items will never buy any resources from other players. This means they must be restricted too? They can generate MU, but not consume.
 
Gewitter said:
Old hunters or miners with all UL items will never buy any resources from other players. This means they must be restricted too? They can generate MU, but not consume.
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That is true, but to get that kind of equipment, they still had to buy it, or loot it, while hunting with L. Thus the investment. The only investment here is BP, which is like 2-3k. For that amount of money you could never buy unlimited gear to hunt/mine at that kind of level.
 
how many ul amps are there to cycle same amount/hour & what do they cost?
Same for hunting & add skill cost in that equation...
We all know you are pro expl BP... but still most ppl are against it.. don't believe me? make your own poll :D
 
Moonbiter said:
That is true, but to get that kind of equipment, they still had to buy it, or loot it, while hunting with L. Thus the investment. The only investment here is BP, which is like 2-3k. For that amount of money you could never buy unlimited gear to hunt/mine at that kind of level.
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The Times They Are A-Changin (C), and soon everything will cost not so much as many of us wish ;)

Edit: das - troll!
 
Gewitter said:
The Times They Are A-Changin (C), and soon everything will cost not so much as many of us wish ;)

Edit: das - troll!
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yeah.. easier to call me troll instead of coming up with an answer that makes sense... keep it up & you'll be the 2nd ava in 8 years I'll have to put on my idiot ignore list :lolup:
 
das said:
you'll be the 2nd ava in 8 years I'll have to put on my idiot ignore list :lolup:
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This probably is personal insulting, but good luck to you, and it is a great joy and luck for me ;).
 
So your previous edit isn't an insult?
I astill want you to answer my questions or atleast explain why EXPL bp is any good for this game, knowing every profession needs mu to break even...
 
das said:
So your previous edit isn't an insult?
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nope, you are confirmed (not by me) troll.
You will never recieve any more answer from me, GL forever
 
Rave said:
You reference buying TT equipment, but the EP BPs that are hitting hard are not TT. Once you put a small investment in for the big EP BP, you will always play for just TT value. There will NEVER be another need for spending MU or repairs.

20 PED per click is like killing Dasps or Vanguards, which you CANNOT do without spending a lot more in MU. You either buy (L) gear for these mobs (+ammo) for a markup or you buy UL gear (+ammo, +repair) for a much higher one-time markup. The gear required to reliably and consistently hunt 20 PED-ammo mobs costs much, much more than the high-end EP BP. Not to mention the skills required to hunt these type of mobs are much higher in requirement than any of the EP BP skill requirements.

Basically, a rather low level player can just depo one time for a high-level BP and then NEVER participate in the economy of the game. It is a self-contained, and self-sustained slot machine. No repairs, no market purchases, no market sales.

It is the simplest form of gambling.
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Agree the huntung gear is more expencive then the Explo BP, but

hunting vanguards or dasp or any other expencive mob, could drop some nice uL items that can cover all or at least big part of your investment in gear.
And you got the option to loot ESIs, that have a nice markup, too

crafting explo you can´t loot any decent BP as it is components, which have very low markups compared to other BPs like attachments, best you actually can loot is Explo IV BP :D

I can´t see any difference, if hunter owning uL gear only, can repair all for TT and buy ammo for TT only it is exactly the same thing than crafter clicking Explo BP for TT only.

The difference I actually see, hunters can find markups, while crafter clicking explo can´t.
Another difference is the speed, even with best gear available you can´t kill a Dasp every second, but you can do that turnover with Explo IV, so there is a little advantage for the crafter to see more globals in the same time (doesn´t mean it makes them profit)

And hunters have some other options to make their hunts more efficent - pre damagers, hire faper for decay still only TT input, what a crafter can´t do with the Explo BP.

About the skill requirements: Hunters skill damn much faster than crafters!
 
thoreau said:
I would add sweat and oil to the ingredient list. Then I would implement something that requires lots of explosive ammo.
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So you add materials that hundrets of players collect daily for free (oil rig, sweat camps), and force those that do great turnover (very likely regular depositors), to pay for the freeplayers and still think this is fair?

There is enough that uses this free stuff and it is used, although there is explo BP
Btw sweat did not go down in MU since Explo BP, Oil well there is not much it could go down it was nearly TT food befor Explo BP aswell.

So why exactly that resources should be added to Explo BP demand ??????

Last point something that uses huge amounts of Explo Ammo, that really would be nice!
 
there is something that uses a lot of expl.. it's called pk, but as long as they don't fix it... less & less ppl will do it.
I for example didn't mind wasting some profit on it... not like I used to play to have an income.. somthing some ppl tend to think :laugh:
 
Lukasz said:
Nothing is wrong even if someone would call it gambling, the problem is it's between MA and players not between player-player,it would be all good if the use some mats from loot not from tt.
We have more expensive BP to click and no one is complaining about them.
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Hunter owning MM and ModFAP, buys 15k PED ammo from TT, well 10h hunt, then TTs the looted ammo and conversts the shrapnels to uni ammo.
Rest of loot, if not a nice item finds it way into TT or gets sold at very low MU, very likely undercutting existing offers at auction.

Where does this hunter interact with other players`?
All he needs comes from MA (out of TT)
All he needs to pay after hunt, is from MA (repair terminal for TT)

Now miner using a F-106 and a repairable excavator, does not use amps, doesn´t use enhancers.
Miner buy 1000 PED of probes, goes out mining his 1000 drops.
Sells all his ores/enmatters at auction, very likely undercutting existing offers.
After mining run, he pays only TT at repair terminal.

Where does this miner interact with other players, all he needs come from MA, same as hunter above.

This players flood the market with resources without buying anything from market, exactly what Explo BP crafters do.

So why is Explo Crafters hated for only interacting with MA (buying everything, exept the BP itself, from MA),
while it is fine that hunters and miners owning uL gear do only buy from MA aswell.

I can tell you what is the issue and why you all cry so loud:

It is your own creed !!!!
This explo crafters stopped to buy the resource you gain from your playing for TT input only, so you have less customers buying your shit, while you always and ever refuse to buy anything from them.

Thats all I can see in this whole discussion, no matter which thread I look in so far, its everywhere the same.

The crafters that now have the option to do the same thing what hunters and miners could do last 10 years, are now the evil gamblers flooding the market with resources, although miners and hunters did it for years and it always was ok!

Come on people, start using your brains.
Explo BP was long time overdue!
Glad it finally is implemented.
 
1000 peds of probes single drop(thats how unamped miners mostly do) thats like 3 days hard gring, also unamped miners use 90% L finders and enhancers to find rares so they are 100% part of economy,thats how it is so dont change reality.
Im using my brain and trying to compare 1000ped unamped mining with lvl IV explo and something is not adding.
 
GoNi said:
Hunter owning MM and ModFAP, buys 15k PED ammo from TT, well 10h hunt, then TTs the looted ammo and conversts the shrapnels to uni ammo.
Rest of loot, if not a nice item finds it way into TT or gets sold at very low MU, very likely undercutting existing offers at auction.

Where does this hunter interact with other players`?
All he needs comes from MA (out of TT)
All he needs to pay after hunt, is from MA (repair terminal for TT)

Now miner using a F-106 and a repairable excavator, does not use amps, doesn´t use enhancers.
Miner buy 1000 PED of probes, goes out mining his 1000 drops.
Sells all his ores/enmatters at auction, very likely undercutting existing offers.
After mining run, he pays only TT at repair terminal.

Where does this miner interact with other players, all he needs come from MA, same as hunter above.

This players flood the market with resources without buying anything from market, exactly what Explo BP crafters do.

So why is Explo Crafters hated for only interacting with MA (buying everything, exept the BP itself, from MA),
while it is fine that hunters and miners owning uL gear do only buy from MA aswell.

I can tell you what is the issue and why you all cry so loud:

It is your own creed !!!!
This explo crafters stopped to buy the resource you gain from your playing for TT input only, so you have less customers buying your shit, while you always and ever refuse to buy anything from them.

Thats all I can see in this whole discussion, no matter which thread I look in so far, its everywhere the same.

The crafters that now have the option to do the same thing what hunters and miners could do last 10 years, are now the evil gamblers flooding the market with resources, although miners and hunters did it for years and it always was ok!

Come on people, start using your brains.
Explo BP was long time overdue!
Glad it finally is implemented.
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That hunter payed shitloads to get to the level to use that weapon (talking about me atm) then Im guessing on average 5k peds for the enhancers in my gun each month, I pay my healers, Ive payed +-250k in tiercosts last 2 years (goes to miners and crafters then TT) bought buffs, spend shitloads on mindessence and I pay for at least 2 warps each week, I buy my buffs and ofc I sell my loot to other hunters and crafters.

Now this is reality but to craft IV Explosives you dont do any of the above.......you gamble for big hofs straight to MA and dont interact with other professions.

Thats the reason a lot of people think its a very strange move, I like to look at this game as an MMO with a cool edge of real economy added.......This BP shouldnt belong in this game for those reasons above if you ask me.

//Linzey

Forgot to add, its not my greed that thinks its wrong!! I dont mine and sell ores Im a hunter but I love this game and that BP is sort of ruining big parts of this game in my opinion.
 
Just remove tt all together. Ammo looted from mobs will be only one available.
 
mastermesh said:
Just remove tt all together. Ammo looted from mobs will be only one available.
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Great idea! Would like to see how it will work :)
Probes for mining also from mobs? Not fair!
 
Time to add the level 13 amp to tt so miners can gamble without MU on same level as Crafters, 20ped/pop :wtg:
 
Tryx said:
Time to add the level 13 amp to tt so miners can gamble without MU on same level as Crafters, 20ped/pop :wtg:
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Yes, but only if your finds will be something like shrapnel with MU 101%, ok?
Ahh, ok let it be also SOOTO every 1000-5000 drops...
 
Gewitter said:
Yes, but only if your finds will be something like shrapnel with MU 101%, ok?
Ahh, ok let be also SOOTO every 1000-5000 drops...
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MU will go down on resources like metal res :) It will adjust itself


Oh yeah remove towers and claims make em instant show up in inventory
 
Tryx said:
MU will go down on resources like metal res :) It will adjust itself


Oh yeah remove towers and claims make em instant show up in inventory
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Ok, ok I can eat this as always :)
 
Gewitter said:
Ok, ok I can eat this as always :)
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Make it so u can drop at same spot for hours too. much easier to drop probes next to a trade terminal, saves alot of time for miners too.
 
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