Please accept Bitcoin via Bitpay for no fee transactions

Hello Mindark,

So technically yes, you could say Mindark now accepts Bitcoin

Entropia < Neteller < Bitcoin

Just like that.
That's interresting. There's a middleman.. Neteller?

Seems like a trustworthy company.
Oh. Except for one part. The convenience fee.
The Bitcoin part is very attractive indeed.
Unfortunately the convenience fee defeats the purpose in this case in regards to Bitcoin.

Might I make a suggestion?

You'll allow Neteller to be the middleman.
Therefore you do in fact accept Bitcoin

Suppose you guys added another middleman, for the sake of Bitcoin.
BitPay.

I'm not saying you have to use BitPay; there are others, BitPay is just a well known example.

I did make mention to this in a previous thread:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-a-payment-option&highlight=avalon_52+bitcoin

And here's how MA can ACCEPT Bitcoin for deposits with NO RISK

Bitpay said:

Charge $1, get $1.

Instant conversion, no transaction fee, and bank deposits in US Dollars, Euros, GBP, CAD and more. We take the bitcoin exchange rate risk, your customers get the best rate on the market, and you get a payment you can count on, every time. Conversion & Bank Deposit ›

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No rush, but please check into this;
I for one would be an avid Bitcoin depositer with Entropia.

The Bitcoin part is very attractive indeed.

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Why? Please explain like I'm five.

Konve said:

Why? Please explain like I'm five.

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Cool my son's five too, he tries to play this game sometimes. More power to ya

There are plenty of options for depositing to EU.
For a price.
There's a nice little transaction fee tied to all the different methods.

Why?
Is it because Mindark wants more profit?
Nah' they get enough payout once you've got peds in the game.

So, then why the fee?
Well it costs a merchant fee to do business with those exchange companies. Such as PayPal.

Here's an interesting concept.

Try transferring $600,000 from America to Bangledesh using Western Union.
Hey, it's safe. The transfer will get completed.
For a small fee.
Just $53,000
Not so bad.

Perform that exact same transfer with Bitcoin.
The transaction doesn't occur in a few days.
Not even a day.
Not even an hour.
The transaction is 100% complete in seconds.
Here's the catch.
There's a small fee.
It's $0.0098 Cents.

The difference is obvious.

Etopia said:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-deposits-are-now-available&highlight=bitcoin

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I'm guessing you only read title of thread, not the actual post. I've posted in that thread, I'm aware.

aVaLON_52 said:

Hello Mindark,

So technically yes, you could say Mindark now accepts Bitcoin

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Well technically I could be dating Scarlett Johansson...

Bitcoin.. how cares, seriously, 0,0001 % of the population?

Anyway, just because an payment provider accepts bitcoins don't mean MA accepts them, MA don't care how you got your money to the payment provider. So no, they don't accept bitcoin, but the payment provider do.

aVaLON_52 said:

Perform that exact same transfer with Bitcoin.
[...]
The transaction is 100% complete in seconds.

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That... may not be 100% correct.

For the transaction to come through (be cryptographically/mathematically validated), the block has to be "solved". Even with the current pool of TH/s (that's TeraHash(es) for the ones wondering), isn't the aim to be one block solved every... is it ten minutes? If so, the transaction should take between 0 and 10 minutes.

That said, the (optional!) fee for transferring BTC is... somewhat lower (I never knew Western had such horrible fees!).

aVaLON_52 said:

Hello Mindark,

So technically yes, you could say Mindark now accepts Bitcoin

Entropia < Neteller < Bitcoin

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Technically MA does not accept BTC. They accept "money", coming from (in this case) Neteller.

Neteller is the company (allegedly) accepting BTC, and converting them to "money" (USD only? IDK).

I understand your suggestion, but it's not about MA accepting BTC - it's about accepting money from yet another company (in the suggestion: bitpay).

Just wanted to point out the difference, as it's a vital distinction.

EDIT:
I just read Neteller's info @ http://www.neteller.com/pp/bitcoin/ . From that info:
"1. Sign in to your NETELLER Account and click on Bitcoin on the Money In page.
2. After you enter the amount that you want to deposit in your account currency, you will be taken to BitPay to complete the transaction."
[...]

So BitPay seems to indeed be the BTC processor Neteller uses. Whether or not MA could or should interact directly with BitPay maybe was what OP was thinking of? If so, pardon me interrupting.

billairboy said:

Bitcoin.. how cares, seriously, 0,0001 % of the population?

Anyway, just because an payment provider accepts bitcoins don't mean MA accepts them, MA don't care how you got your money to the payment provider. So no, they don't accept bitcoin, but the payment provider do.

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Of the two people I know other than myself that use Bitcoin, one of them got in really early and has somewhere to the tune of $150,000 USD worth, and the other quit his job and bought more hashing hardware. He now lives off of Bitcoin exclusively. So while it may only be 0.0001%, its they generally have a lot to spend. Mindark likes money. Partnering with Bitpay could get them a lot of money for little effort, assuming they dont have an exclusivity contract wit Neteller, which would be a stupid idea if they did.

JonnyRotten said:

Of the two people I know other than myself that use Bitcoin, one of them got in really early and has somewhere to the tune of $150,000 USD worth, and the other quit his job and bought more hashing hardware. He now lives off of Bitcoin exclusively. So while it may only be 0.0001%, its they generally have a lot to spend. Mindark likes money. Partnering with Bitpay could get them a lot of money for little effort, assuming they dont have an exclusivity contract wit Neteller, which would be a stupid idea if they did.

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Yes, some few that speculated in the Bitcoin, not many that use it for what is meant for, transferring money. For most people it's just a fun and interesting thing. The problem with Bitcoin is if it's gets popular, the state and financial institution will kick in with regulations.

Thanks for the positive talk on Bitcoin.

I think other Bitcoin enthusiasts can feel for me on the Bitcoin topics. Feels like I'm here from the future promoting technology that modern people aren't ready for.

Hey guys this is your future global currency. Wake up.

aVaLON_52 said:

Hey guys this is your future global currency. Wake up.

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No it is not.....
To think that it would be possible to have a global currency that are not connected to some kind of regulation and under control of some state organization or similar organization is a bit naive.....

aVaLON_52 said:

Thanks for the positive talk on Bitcoin.

I think other Bitcoin enthusiasts can feel for me on the Bitcoin topics. Feels like I'm here from the future promoting technology that modern people aren't ready for.

Hey guys this is your future global currency. Wake up.

Click to expand...

If you would actually look at bitcoin from a pragmatic view instead of a idealistic view point you would see that bitcoin is incredibly unlikely to ever take center stage. If governments actually solved the regulation issue, which is almost impossible by the way, the issue of geopolitics would still be firmly in place and that issue is not getting fixed anytime soon.

Regards
Zweshi

billairboy said:

No it is not.....
To think that it would be possible to have a global currency that are not connected to some kind of regulation and under control of some state organization or similar organization is a bit naive.....

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A sizable part of BTC is already under some governments control - the largest known being owned by US after seizing part of Silk Road owner wallets.

Who knows how much is own by China, or various organizations (650,000 "lost" from Mt. Gox). BTC is anything but "people" money.

It has a tremendous speculative potential however, sadly I missed the boat and sold around 2 BTC before it went 10x in value to almost 1000 USD/coin. I took advantage of Netteller and sold my remaining small change.

Because of this speculative potential, imagine players depositing BTC when it is let's say 500 USD/ BTC and 3 months later withdrawing PED into USD when BTC would be 250 USD /BTC. MA would be busted, if it would accept direct exchange.

It doesn't actually matter to me if EU used bitcoin or not but the one thing that is bothering me a little about bitpay is the "100% free forever" model. I've seen that before a few times

Xdrive,
NetZero,
etc.

Most of them either died, changed to a charge model, or found other annoying ways to make money off of you.

aVaLON_52 said:

Here's an interesting concept.

Try transferring $600,000 from America to Bangledesh using Western Union.
Hey, it's safe. The transfer will get completed.
For a small fee.
Just $53,000
Not so bad.

Click to expand...

only interesting concept here is why anyone would try to transfer $600000 by Western Union. normally people with that sort of cash can transfer between banks for a small fixed fee in the order of $20-50. at least that would be the case with UK banks. Bitcoin is a solution desperatly seeking a problem.

Konve said:

Why? Please explain like I'm five.

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Bitcoin explained like you were a five year old:
https://medium.com/@nik5ter/explain-bitcoin-like-im-five-73b4257ac833

aVaLON_52 said:

Thanks for the positive talk on Bitcoin.

I think other Bitcoin enthusiasts can feel for me on the Bitcoin topics. Feels like I'm here from the future promoting technology that modern people aren't ready for.

Hey guys this is your future global currency. Wake up.

Click to expand...

I totally feel you. It's really amazing to see how certain people seem to have such an aversion to modern technology and newly created innovations. It's like you say, people just aren't ready for it yet for whatever reasons. Just like it's been throughout the history of new stuff.

"The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in 'Metcalfe's law'–which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants–becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's."

- Paul Krugman; winner, Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences

Tepes said:

A sizable part of BTC is already under some governments control - the largest known being owned by US after seizing part of Silk Road owner wallets.

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The US FBI has already auctioned off these seized bitcoins in three batches.

Tepes said:

Who knows how much is own by China, or various organizations (650,000 "lost" from Mt. Gox). BTC is anything but "people" money.

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What is "people" money? Anyone can acquire any amount of bitcoin in many various ways and use it in many various ways as well.

Tepes said:

It has a tremendous speculative potential however, sadly I missed the boat and sold around 2 BTC before it went 10x in value to almost 1000 USD/coin. I took advantage of Netteller and sold my remaining small change.

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"Missing the boat" on Bitcoins, another common misconception.

Tepes said:

Because of this speculative potential, imagine players depositing BTC when it is let's say 500 USD/ BTC and 3 months later withdrawing PED into USD when BTC would be 250 USD /BTC. MA would be busted, if it would accept direct exchange.

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Hence the reason why most businesses that accept Bitcoin use services like BitPay. When they use such services they are not subject to the fluctuations in the price of bitcoin and therefore not at risk of losing money due to those changes.

aridash said:

only interesting concept here is why anyone would try to transfer $600000 by Western Union. normally people with that sort of cash can transfer between banks for a small fixed fee in the order of $20-50. at least that would be the case with UK banks. Bitcoin is a solution desperatly seeking a problem.

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Among many other myriad solutions Bitcoin provides, is banking for the 5 billion+ unbanked - people around the world who don't have access to banks who are cut off from a financial system that the rest of us take for granted. They can’t start savings accounts. They don’t have checking accounts. They can’t get credit cards. They live in places where banks don’t want to go, and because of this, they remain effectively walled off from the global economy.

Optimator said:

Among many other myriad solutions Bitcoin provides, is banking for the 5 billion+ unbanked - people around the world who don't have access to banks who are cut off from a financial system that the rest of us take for granted. They can’t start savings accounts. They don’t have checking accounts. They can’t get credit cards. They live in places where banks don’t want to go, and because of this, they remain effectively walled off from the global economy.

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and most of then dont have access to power, computers or other infrastructure to connect to bitcoin. even when you do have the infrastructure it lacks practical convienence, i'm in London and how do i put money into and out of bitcoin: though local fans in a rather Heath Robinson fashion. i find bitcoin an interesting and informative experiment in technologies and how money could work, but many of the claims are wildly techno-utopian dreams. for most people excluded from banking the current prime solution would be M-pesa or similar platform.

After a little bit of research bitpay does take a "little bit of money" from the spread on bitcoin transactions, so, it's really no different than the normal foreign exchange rates non US customers are already experiencing.

aridash said:

and most of then dont have access to power, computers or other infrastructure to connect to bitcoin. even when you do have the infrastructure it lacks practical convienence, i'm in London and how do i put money into and out of bitcoin: though local fans in a rather Heath Robinson fashion. i find bitcoin an interesting and informative experiment in technologies and how money could work, but many of the claims are wildly techno-utopian dreams. for most people excluded from banking the current prime solution would be M-pesa or similar platform.

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I understand your point of view. It's just like way back when the internet first came out. There were people saying, "Why do we need the internet for when we have pefectly good fax machines that take care of everything we can ever need, duh."

Seriously though, I get it. If you don't think bitcoin is for you, then by all means stay away from it. I don't think the OP is trying to "convert the masses" to using Bitcoin. There are some of us though that do find it useful and it would be great if MA accepted it "directly" via BitPay.

Optimator said:

I understand your point of view. It's just like way back when the internet first came out. There were people saying, "Why do we need the internet for when we have pefectly good fax machines that take care of everything we can ever need, duh."

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The problem with that illustration is that it is to selective, yep the internet was an invention that revolutionised the entire world and looking at what early detractors said is quite frankly hilarious seeing how the internet turned out. But in the same period you can find at the very least tens of thousands of innovations that claimed the same world changing formula but they died out in a few years.

The thing that strikes me about bitcoin isen't really the wealth of discussion on the topic but rather how hollow the discussions are. The same arguments being made over and over again in each thread, arguments that for the most part dont take into account the realities around bitcoin but instead focuses on what bitcoin sets out to achive.
To date i have seen no arguments that actually make a good case on the numerous issues facing bitcoin before it could ever be a rival to local fiat currency, i dont think i will ever see those arguments but if i did i would change my mind about bitcoin in a heartbeat .

Regards
Zweshi

The notion of an average person puts the whole bitcoin thing somewhere between Bernie Madoff & Co and the dark wonders of them internets like the Silk Road. I can't see MA rushing to add all that weight to the existing online controversies about the game, especially for the sake of < 1% of the playerbase.

The existence of the "Entropia < Neteller < Bitcoin" chain doesn't mean that MA accepts Bitcoin, it means they can't bring themselves to cut off Neteller to prevent it.

melander said:

The problem with that illustration is that it is to selective, yep the internet was an invention that revolutionised the entire world and looking at what early detractors said is quite frankly hilarious seeing how the internet turned out. But in the same period you can find at the very least tens of thousands of innovations that claimed the same world changing formula but they died out in a few years.

The thing that strikes me about bitcoin isen't really the wealth of discussion on the topic but rather how hollow the discussions are. The same arguments being made over and over again in each thread, arguments that for the most part dont take into account the realities around bitcoin but instead focuses on what bitcoin sets out to achive.
To date i have seen no arguments that actually make a good case on the numerous issues facing bitcoin before it could ever be a rival to local fiat currency, i dont think i will ever see those arguments but if i did i would change my mind about bitcoin in a heartbeat .

Regards
Zweshi

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You can tell yourself you have not seen any arguments to date that actually make a good case on the "numerous issues facing bitcoin" and even believe it to be so.

The thing with Bitcoin though is that it continues on whether or not Joe Blow amateur economist (or Joe Blow expert economist for that matter) believes they have or have not seen any "arguments that actually make a good case on the numerous issues facing bitcoin..."

There are enough people and groups out there with the vision and money to make things happen and are in fact doing so now. Venture capital doesn't invest millions upon millions of dollars in creating infrastructure and platforms to further develop a certain technology that their market studies and research has shown to be something non-viable. They don't just pour millions into something based solely on the mere hope that it might be accepted by the masses. Really, they don't. I'm willing to bet these people have taken into good account your so-called "realities around bitcion" in their assesments. When governments are scrambling to figure out how they can tax/regulate something. that's when you know that that something is not going away anytime soon.

Whether Bitcoin, as you say, "could ever be a rival to local fiat currency" doesn't even matter. Bitcoin is more than just currency, just like the internet is more than just email.

But again, the point of this thread and others like it isn't about trying to convert people into using bitcoin. It's about suggesting/requesting that MA accept Bitcoin deposits via a service like BitPay so that those who do utilize Bitcoin can do so.

melander said:

The same arguments being made over and over again in each thread, arguments that for the most part dont take into account the realities around bitcoin but instead focuses on what bitcoin sets out to achive.
To date i have seen no arguments that actually make a good case on the numerous issues facing bitcoin before it could ever be a rival to local fiat currency, i dont think i will ever see those arguments but if i did i would change my mind about bitcoin in a heartbeat .

Regards
Zweshi

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What kind of issues are facing Bitcoin?

aVaLON_52 said:

What kind of issues are facing Bitcoin?

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Some I can come up with:

• Not controlled by any state institution or similar organization that guarantees the safety of the system. If the system was "sponsored" by the US government, EU and/or UN I would believe in it more.
  
  
• No country would like to loose control of their financial payment system, so they will not like it if it grow "big" and would start to put regulations and restrictions on it. They absolutely don't want a "currency" where they can't control the amount of available money in circulation.
  
  
• Big question-marks about the safety and stability of the Bitcoin system. It's a interesting and clever system, but also connected to some risk that something will go wrong in the system when it's "open" for manipulation. What if a country like China or North Korea put's in a lot of computer power and know-how to break the system, will the system be able to handle that? I also question the privacy of the system, I read that you can track all previous transaction done in the payment chain before you or something like that. I don't know if I want others to be able to track done what I have payed for (no, I don't want that)
  
• Will the system handle a big scale up? Let's say the Bit-coin "boomed" and got 100 times bigger, will the system handle that?
  
  Just some of my thoughts about the issues.
  

Optimator said:

...There are enough people and groups out there with the vision and money to make things happen and are in fact doing so now. Venture capital doesn't invest millions upon millions of dollars in creating infrastructure and platforms to further develop a certain technology that their market studies and research has shown to be something non-viable. They don't just pour millions into something based solely on the mere hope that it might be accepted by the masses. Really, they don't.

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yes they do. thats exactly what venture capital does, takes risks on up anc coming business models and technologies in the hop that one hits big. 9/10 can fail as long as the 10th is a massive winner. if bitcoin is going to be a game changer or not is still unclear, all i know is that there are a number of issues not least how its failed to gain real traction and the attitude of its advocates. thanks for your condesending post earlier though.

Bitcoins have practically no value and not backed by any Country of the world.

aVaLON_52 said:

What kind of issues are facing Bitcoin?

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- Geopolitical power shifts.
- Making sanctions almost impossible to enforce.
- Better service, protection and usability from a normal bank for the average consumer.
- SHA-256 will in due time be broken making all ASIC machines into scrap metal.
- Lack of incentive for governments to accept it due to loss of local and regional power.
- Lack of incentive for the average person to switch to bitcoin.

To name a few.


PS. Optimator. if this was only about asking MA to accept bitcoin and not change public opinion it would have been done in private via a support ticket not on a open forum .

aridash said:

thanks for your condesending post earlier though.

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You're welcome. And thanks for your insightful, well-formed viewpoints.

*Edit:
@aridash: Seriously though, if I came across as condescending in any of my posts, then I do sincerely apologize to you and anyone else who may have taken them that way. I know I'm no better than anyone else, but at times I can go overboard in my responses. So again, I apologize.

@melander: Ok, I understand your point. And don't get me wrong, I never said, "Hey guys, let's stop trying to prove our points on where we stand, for or against Bitcoin or whether or not we think bitcoin is legit or some passing fad/idea or has some unresolved issues or whatever." I'm all for free discussion and find it interesting to see what different people's opinions and viewpoints on Bitcoin are. I don't mind it at all and I think it's great. I've even joined in on it. I was only trying to point out that the OP started with a suggestion/request to MA about accepting Bitcoin via a specific bitcoin payment processor. Nothing more. And his specific topic of discussion - deposits via a specific bitcoin processor - has barely been touched upon thus far in these three pages of discussion.

Svarog said:

The existence of the "Entropia < Neteller < Bitcoin" chain doesn't mean that MA accepts Bitcoin, it means they can't bring themselves to cut off Neteller to prevent it.

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Oh, I think that solution is great, in several ways:
- It's possible to deposit using bitcoins for those who like (even though there is a fee)
- MA takes no risks (as far as I know). If something will go wrong, for instance someone have used bitcoins gotten from crime or there is a big variety in exchange rate during the deposit transaction, it will (hopefully) be Netteller who will take the hit.
- MA wont need to support it or solve any bitcoin related problems (support as, answer questions like "I've deposited using bitcoins, my bitcoins vanished and I got a message the bitcoins had already been used by someone else").

One thing I'd like to know, is how Bitpay earns its money to pay its employees and computers, if it's a free service without transaction costs. One small detail, is that if MA would use Bitpay, they (MA) probably doesn't want to rely on support though a peer forum or something like that, so MA probably would need to have a "paid plan". And then MA would need to recover the fees, and then it won't be free anymore.

In the longer run, I don't think MA wants to take the role to "wash" bitcoins (by someone depositing bitcoins and then immediately request cash withdrawal).

Curious, wold bitcoins still be interesting, through direct deposit, if it was only possible to buy non-refundable and non-tradeable items thorugh it like starter packs and limited amount of universal ammo (say 500 ped/month)?